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(BBC)   Growing up unable to feel pain doesn't turn you into a supervillian. It just sucks   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 125
    More: Sad, Stieg Larsson, genetic diseases, Robert Carlyle, local college  
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17941 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jul 2012 at 6:46 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-19 11:10:53 AM

Doom MD: doglover: Ricardo Klement: She's part of the reason I have a low opinion of doctors when it comes to science.

Doctors aren't scientists. They don't do research and develop new treatments.

Doctors are just practitioners of medicine. They buy they pills the scientists make and use the tools scientists develop and repeat the things that work well while avoiding those things that don't.

You know how I know you have no idea what you're talking about? Seriously, ever read an issue of the New England Journal of Medicine? Think the letters next to many of the names on those research papers are just cute initials? Maybe I'm dipping into bath salts and hallucinating my own research.


To be fair, 90% of the time when lay people say "doctor" they're referring to family or general medical physicians who have just a little more training than nurses, very few of whom have ever or will ever publish anything. They're more likely to start selling quack miracle diet pills using their credentials than get into any journal. Most people distinguish those from "surgeons" and "researchers," despite all of them actually being doctors, as a quirk of social language.
 
2012-07-19 11:22:29 AM

foxyshadis: Doom MD: doglover: Ricardo Klement: She's part of the reason I have a low opinion of doctors when it comes to science.

Doctors aren't scientists. They don't do research and develop new treatments.

Doctors are just practitioners of medicine. They buy they pills the scientists make and use the tools scientists develop and repeat the things that work well while avoiding those things that don't.

You know how I know you have no idea what you're talking about? Seriously, ever read an issue of the New England Journal of Medicine? Think the letters next to many of the names on those research papers are just cute initials? Maybe I'm dipping into bath salts and hallucinating my own research.

To be fair, 90% of the time when lay people say "doctor" they're referring to family or general medical physicians who have just a little more training than nurses, very few of whom have ever or will ever publish anything. They're more likely to start selling quack miracle diet pills using their credentials than get into any journal. Most people distinguish those from "surgeons" and "researchers," despite all of them actually being doctors, as a quirk of social language.


The difference in the level of training between a nurse and any MD is extremely vast in addition to the fact their functions are quite different. If I understood that last sentence right, that you'd opine surgeons as having superior critical thinking to primary care physicians is just abjectly silly.
 
2012-07-19 11:27:54 AM

Ricardo Klement: dopeydwarf: doglover: Ricardo Klement: My aunt is an emergency room doctor and not a fan of pain medication.

She probably deals with all kinds of addicts.

Or she's just a biatch as evidenced by:

/Seriously - she objected to giving my grandfather morphine when he was in his final days suffering from pancreatic cancer.

But I'll leave the conclusions to Ricardo.

Probably some combination. She points out that anything with "-caine" increases your tolerance to anything else with "-caine" in it. Cocaine addict? Novocaine might not work. So she also refuses to buy sun burn lotion with lidocaine in it. I think she's paranoid. She's also against patient self-medication, even though studies have consistently shown that patients end up using LESS medication. (Because if the nurse offers, the answer is invariably "yes" for fear that the nurse won't be back before the current dose wears off. Whereas self-dosing mostly happens when it hurts.)

She's part of the reason I have a low opinion of doctors when it comes to science.


An ER doctor is to science what a car mechanic is to automotive engineering.
 
2012-07-19 11:35:41 AM

Millennium: protectyourlimbs: Yeah but your aunt is female... don't you mean she is a nurse??

When I was but a wee chibi, I didn't understand the difference between doctors and nurses as a profession. I thought "nurse" was like "actress": just what you called a doctor who happened to be female.

Being that my dad was a doctor, this caused quite a few Kids Say the Darndest Things moments.


Considering that there was more than one moment it sounds like your dad might have agreed...

/just kidding to all the hot women doctors on here...
//kidding again.. there are none...
 
2012-07-19 11:56:17 AM

MythDragon: She was partly delirious


While I feel bad for your mom......I read that as partly delicious which really makes your story more enjoyable to read.
 
2012-07-19 12:08:20 PM

MythDragon: [media.schadenfreude.net image 509x306]

well it sure doesn't help with being stabbed through the chest with a plutonium rod.

/spoilers above.


I loved him in Stargate Universe.
 
2012-07-19 12:10:41 PM

Arkanaut: I would think that to be a supervillian, you have to live in Superville.


Came here to make a similar snark. Thanks for saving me the time...
 
2012-07-19 12:27:33 PM

doglover: Ricardo Klement: She's part of the reason I have a low opinion of doctors when it comes to science.

Doctors aren't scientists. They don't do research and develop new treatments.

Doctors are just practitioners of medicine. They buy they pills the scientists make and use the tools scientists develop and repeat the things that work well while avoiding those things that don't.


You should make sure you actually know what you're talking about before posting your "facts" on the internet. Because that post is one you should want to take back.
 
2012-07-19 12:31:58 PM

Ricardo Klement: Dejah: Pain don't hurt.

My aunt is an emergency room doctor and not a fan of pain medication.

"A little pain never hurt anyone."

/Seriously - she objected to giving my grandfather morphine when he was in his final days suffering from pancreatic cancer.


Seriously? Not treating pain has been demonstrated multiple times in multiple studies to increase both mortality and morbidity, as well as forcing the guy who comes on shift after you who isn't an idiot to have to fight through wind-up to provide the patient some relief. I hope your aunt is a nice person, because if this is true, she's a shiatty doctor.
 
2012-07-19 01:17:33 PM

zarberg: MythDragon: [media.schadenfreude.net image 509x306]

well it sure doesn't help with being stabbed through the chest with a plutonium rod.

/spoilers above.

I loved him in Stargate Universe.


Holy hell, that IS the same guy!
 
2012-07-19 01:20:02 PM

protectyourlimbs: /just kidding to all the hot women doctors on here...
//kidding again.. there are none...


That wasn't funny the first time either. Try harder.
 
2012-07-19 01:24:17 PM
Appropos of nothing, who the hell ever suggested that Bane is immune to pain as their sidebar suggests? That big ol' mask on his face? IT'S BECAUSE HE'S IN SO MUCH PAIN (according to Nolan) that he constantly needs anesthesia.

"Quick mate, we need a pop culture tie in to this story...whaddya got?"
"I don't know, does the kid like batman?"
 
2012-07-19 02:26:44 PM

Ricardo Klement: Dejah: Pain don't hurt.

My aunt is an emergency room doctor and not a fan of pain medication.

"A little pain never hurt anyone."

/Seriously - she objected to giving my grandfather morphine when he was in his final days suffering from pancreatic cancer.


As someone who had pancreatitis (this is where a lot of the pain pancreatic cancer patients have comes from) your aunt sounds pretty terrible. Seriously, your organ is digesting itself and it feels like you're impaled. When I was in the hospital the husband of the other patient in the room couldn't always stand to be in the room because of the amount of agony I was in. Point is I was on pain meds. and was still obviously in pain. Nobody should have to suffer through that without pain control (especially in their final days) because it's pretty terrible. I'm sorry your family had to see your grandfather suffer like that.

/have see two people go this way
//at least its usually quick
///Previous company has a drug in trials for this cancer
 
2012-07-19 02:45:44 PM
Opoids are fantastic pain-killing medications but abuse/addiction from it has been absolutely rampant. Even patients with legitimate medical issues in the hopsital will lie and exaggerate to obtain narcotics (many of these lies obfuscate our ability to treat medical problems adequately). The classic is always along the lines of stating that they're allergic to aspirin, tylenol, percocet, lortabs, but hey... dilaudid is alright, but only if it's IV. This is to say nothing of the patients who are just jonesing and will either fabricate illness or outright injure themselves to obtain narcotics (and guess who is paying for these admissions?).

Clinics can be an outright nightmare in some areas of the country. Patients will come in for the first time ever demanding a refill for a 2 year old bottle of percocet they're waiving around giving vague histories. It's not unheard of such patients making threats to staff for not complying. Some clinics have gone so far as to state outright that they will under no circumstances prescribe narcotics to patients but will rather refer them to a pain clinic if they feel it is clinically warranted.

It's sad we live in a world where physicians need to be skeptical of the validity of something as subjective as pain, but narcotics seeking is an enormous problem in medicine and a huge source of waste. This is one of those areas where physicians and staff need to rely on their best judgement when assessing patients.
 
2012-07-19 02:46:54 PM

theorellior: cryinoutloud: Yup. One of my mother's famous rants was about when she was watching an old friend die of various things, and the nurse refused to give him some kind of painkiller because "he might get addicted!" Addicted? FFS, he's DYING--give him the drugs!!

It's bullshiat. The same thing happened when my father-in-law was dying. I was about to rip some people new assholes for it.

My grandfather had a morphine drip with a dosing button on his deathbed. Best idea evar.


My aunt's a nurse who worked in a chemo ward. There was a pharmacy who was kicking back an addictive pain med scrip for a patient because it didn't have a limit on it. The doc went ballistic, telling them they could write 'forever and ever' in that spot, as the patient had terminal cancer.
 
2012-07-19 03:03:19 PM

Doom MD:
Clinics can be an outright nightmare in some areas of the country. Patients will come in for the first time ever demanding a refill for a 2 year old bottle of percocet they're waiving around giving vague histories. It's not unheard of such patients making threats to staff for not complying. Some clinics have gone so far as to state outright that they will under no circumstances prescribe narcotics to patients but will rather refer them to a pain clinic if they feel it is clinically warranted.

.


Speaking as someone in recovery from opiate addiction (400mgs of Oxy a day at one point) I agree with what you've said but I don't think it's fair to paint doctors in this solely heroic light. I injured my back, slipped two discs in 1999. I asked for every type of intervention possible: Physical therapy, accupuncture, chiropractic, steroid injections right into my discs until finally the only real solution was surgery. My doctors threw pills at me like they were skittles. IF those don't work, try these, try more, try a higher dose. "I Think I need surgery" "Let's just be conservative, you're young...you don't want surgery...have some fentanyl patches, have oxy, lortabs, norco..."

Until BOOM one day they decide I might just be dependent on these things and the next thing I know I'm in medical detox, trying to lower my tolerance so I can have surgery. Surgery worked by the way, it was a miracle.
 
2012-07-19 03:19:31 PM

teenytinycornteeth: Doom MD:
Clinics can be an outright nightmare in some areas of the country. Patients will come in for the first time ever demanding a refill for a 2 year old bottle of percocet they're waiving around giving vague histories. It's not unheard of such patients making threats to staff for not complying. Some clinics have gone so far as to state outright that they will under no circumstances prescribe narcotics to patients but will rather refer them to a pain clinic if they feel it is clinically warranted.

.

Speaking as someone in recovery from opiate addiction (400mgs of Oxy a day at one point) I agree with what you've said but I don't think it's fair to paint doctors in this solely heroic light. I injured my back, slipped two discs in 1999. I asked for every type of intervention possible: Physical therapy, accupuncture, chiropractic, steroid injections right into my discs until finally the only real solution was surgery. My doctors threw pills at me like they were skittles. IF those don't work, try these, try more, try a higher dose. "I Think I need surgery" "Let's just be conservative, you're young...you don't want surgery...have some fentanyl patches, have oxy, lortabs, norco..."

Until BOOM one day they decide I might just be dependent on these things and the next thing I know I'm in medical detox, trying to lower my tolerance so I can have surgery. Surgery worked by the way, it was a miracle.


Your story further illustrates how important it is for cliniciancs to not use these medications in a ham-fisted manner. Careless use of narcotics can make a patient have an addiction on top of a legitimate medical problem. That doesn't help the patient nor does it anyone else. I'm glad the surgery worked out so well for you.
 
2012-07-19 03:36:37 PM

Doom MD: It's sad we live in a world where physicians need to be skeptical of the validity of something as subjective as pain, but narcotics seeking is an enormous problem in medicine and a huge source of waste. This is one of those areas where physicians and staff need to rely on their best judgement when assessing patients.


I think that is somewhat the problem- IME MDs are often more scared of junkies than of letting pain go untreated. The last time I had a sinus infection, I had the worst facial pain from the pressure I've ever experienced. I explained this during the PE, I nearly came off the table when he palped my face, and since he didn't offer, I asked for something to help deal with it. "Sure, have some ibuprofen". Uh, no. I had to get his boss in the room to get opiods. I imagine if I didn't have a fair amount of knowledge about the physiology of pain, I wouldn't have known to be an asshole about it so I could be comfortable.

/veterinarian
//sooooo glad I don't have to deal with that crap
 
2012-07-19 05:56:45 PM
I feel for people with this disease. I have a very high tolerance for pain. Last time I visited my dentist he said "That's the price you pay for a high tolerance of pain." If I had the affliction as bad as they, I'd have no teeth instead of losing just two.
 
2012-07-19 06:36:28 PM
Growing up unable to feel pleasure also sucks. And I mean all kinds of pleasure. None. Nothing. It's just not as dangerous to your health, but it still sucks.
 
2012-07-19 06:46:15 PM

Ricardo Klement: Dejah: Pain don't hurt.

My aunt is an emergency room doctor and not a fan of pain medication.

"A little pain never hurt anyone."

/Seriously - she objected to giving my grandfather morphine when he was in his final days suffering from pancreatic cancer.


She deserves to suffer the pain she inflicts on others.
 
2012-07-19 09:14:37 PM
dl.dropbox.com

Really, no one yet? Geez...
 
2012-07-20 04:48:37 AM

Cthulhain: [dl.dropbox.com image 450x600]

Really, no one yet? Geez...


Hey, I just got here. I was gonna mention the Haven guy... Stephen King thought this was a good superpower.

The writing keeps confusing not feeling PAIN with being INVULNERABLE. When he described his condition, he made it clear he didn't feel pain, but he keeps doing scenes where he's basically invincible to all forms of harm. Neither he nor anyone else notes that, even though it's a totally different thing, and an invulnerable person has a lot more "powers" than that.

But that's hardly the only strange thing going on in this series.
 
2012-07-20 12:42:59 PM

Inchoate: protectyourlimbs: /just kidding to all the hot women doctors on here...
//kidding again.. there are none...

That wasn't funny the first time either. Try harder.


Sorry, always get that mixed up, the truth isn't funny, it hurts..
 
2012-07-20 06:02:29 PM

dunklemeister: They took me to a paediatrician where I underwent a series of tests.

At first they put a cigarette lighter underneath my foot and waited for my skin to blister.


What the hell? That was their go-to test for pain tolerance back then? Light the baby's foot on fire with a Zippo?


I was kind of wondering this....

/Seriously, what the everloving f*ck?
 
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