Hey, Naked-

I for one don't think you're a total asshat.

adding to purple-

Or what about the Aryan Nations? Hell, they practiaclly own Idaho. I'd go after them in a heartbeat before going after Greenpeace.

I think most people are missing the point.

Selective enforcement is against the law.

Once again, SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT IS AGAINST THE LAW.

Greenpeace are a bunch of farktards. But they do have a case with this one.

As a true republican, I despise what Ashcroft/Rumsfeld have done to our country and our freedoms. I like G.W. though

That's the one thing I hate about being a republican in these times. Godamned neocons have given us a bad name.

I voted for G. W. the first time. It's a mistake I won't repeat. He appointed guys who've basically farked us as a country for a power grab. He's not as harmless as I thought.

I wish to god there was a way to have a republican primary. Get these saps outta power and get a REAL republican in there, instead of one of these Johnny-Come-Lately power mongers.

-Koz

Heh, hey, lard...

Kinda wish the Dems had been able to block Ashcroft like they wanted to now, eh?

Ya know, in a year's time we'll be getting ready, for better or worse, for a new president to get in office. And all of this will be moot. The so-called "facists" will be on their way out. And we'll be in for another four years of a different flavor of stupidity and scandal.

You only have to be scared if this behavior continues with the Democrats.

Bush needs to nail those farking PETA assfarkers. The farking cock suckers. PETA can go fark it's collective self. My chihuahua agress with me.

Unfortunatley, GB, we will still have to deal with this current asshat until Jan 23, 2005. A lot can happen in a year... Especially if W and crew gets a little vindictive in their last three months in office..

-Coyote

hindsight is always 20/20

that said... yes I do.

This administration has to be granted the honor of pulling one of the biggest fast-ones on the American public.

I, honestly, was fooled. I'm a staunch financial conservative, but I lean a touch towards governemntal lessez-faire on social issues. And I thought that's what G.W. was going to give us.

Criminey! Was I wrong.

The guy might as well be called an ultra-christian democrat for all the governmental power he's brought to bear (bare? I dunno, I'm not a grammar/spelling nazi(but I am a punctuation nazi.))

-Koz

Yeah, you were right the first time. And hell, I just might agree with you in your description.. Seems like a christian Lieberman to me..

OK, so it's pretty well agreed that Greenpeace broke the law and that the law itself is arcane. So, why shouldn't lawmakers sitdown and go over these obscure laws and determine which ones still apply in 2003? Law itself is time consuming, but it's even worse if we're applying laws last used in the 19th century. It shouldn't be taken as a matter of course that there's bound to be some stupid laws left on the books.

I think Greenpeace should invade wil's house and take it over, due to all those environmentally-unfriendly furnaces, cars, and what have you. Because, after all, it's not like tresspassing is illegal or anything.

Amazing! I just cannot believe some of the comments that I've seen on this thread, and I'm only halfway through reading it. I just cannot take any more of this BS!

MrPerspicacious says, "I'm a moderate." BULLSHIAT! I have yet to see any comment from you that disagreed in any way, shape or form with the neocon philosophy!

What is there that is so difficult to understand here? Greenpeace should be charged with trespassing, but instead are charged months later with a 19th century law that by all accounts has only actually been used twice in our nations history. Why use that law now? To further what agenda? Some of you people, like Chelsea_Clinton_is_Carrot_Tops_Lost_Twin just make me sick. Keep on getting all your news from FNC, losers. While your betters are being sacrificed by this administration, you just continue to spout your drivel, secure in the knowledge that you have that right only due to your betters in the military. In other words, MrPerspicacious, Chelsea...et...al, STFU!!

End rant.

Hey cscx, don't be a stupid dork.

We're not agruging that tresspassing is illegal. Greenpeace still gets arrested for tresspassing, and hey, it's illegal. If a member steals something, great, they go to jail in a heartbeat. But to do above and beyond in prosecuting is just. plain. wrong. Especially to go after the entire damn orginazation, when even to the exent of the law, only the ones who were on the boat or helped them would be guilty of conspiracy to board the boat. NOT the organization.

"Nov. 14 When Greenpeace activists illegally scrambled aboard the cargo ship APL Jade, it was the start of a pretty typical day."



This said by the ACLU For two hundred years, the United States government has refrained from prosecuting advocacy groups whose members occasionally engage in peaceful civil disobedience to convey a constitutionally protected message, they wrote in their brief. The prosecution of Greenpeace indicates a sea change in that policy.



~~~~~ So occasionally engaging in civil disobedience means it is alright to illegally run onto a ship? That means all those kooks in China and every place else where they hide in boats that are coming to this country are doing the same as these knuckleheads from Greenpeace. And how come they get a tax-exemption?

Listen up boys.

Screw Greenpeace! You are right! Bush is in charge so screw those hippies! OK now 10 years from now you and the boys are down at the huntin club (liberals are in charge now)and your boy got busted shooting a deer out of season. He gets the same punishment every one else has ever recieved for that offense. Then 6 MONTHS LATER the Feds show up and charge the hunting club for conspiracy to illegally trap skins to distribute mocasins.

The damn liberals point to this decision right here to show its OK to use laws that are OVER ONE HUNDRED YEARS OLD completely out of context.

Yeah this kind of thing should become commonplace.

SCREW THOSE HIPPIES!!

BUUUUUUUUUURRRRRP

Listen up boys.

Screw Greenpeace! You are right! Bush is in charge so screw those hippies! OK now 10 years from now you and the boys are down at the huntin club (liberals are in charge now)and your boy got busted shooting a deer out of season. He gets the same punishment every one else has ever recieved for that offense. Then 6 MONTHS LATER the Feds show up and charge the hunting club for conspiracy to illegally trap skins to distribute mocasins.

The damn liberals point to this decision right here to show its OK to use laws that are OVER ONE HUNDRED YEARS OLD completely out of context.

Yeah this kind of thing should become commonplace.

SCREW THOSE HIPPIES!!

BUUUUUUUUUURRRRRP

Uhhh, I meant laws that hadnt been used for anything in 113 years..

Besides, if we want to go to old laws, does this mean if the mayor of Farkistan abdicates, a council of "learned elders" gets to rule in his place?

f!ck bush and his nationalistic facist ideals.

america wake-up.

look into how your government is manipulating you.

remember enron?

read michael moore.

It's about time someone deals with these hippies. Why should the US allow anyone to board their ships? Maybe they *are* terrorists disguised as hippies. How would you hippies feel about that? Headline: "US Tanker with 5 Billion gallons of crude sank off the coast of Alaska; Greenpeace doesn't speak Arabic."

How is you boarding my ship free speech?

Iraq is not an illegal occupation either. It is a resumption of the hostilities of 1991 that the US has the right to do because Iraq violated the terms of their peace settlement 12 times by impeding UN weapons inspectors. We tried diplomacy with those a-holes for 12 years. In 1991, we said that in exchange for you to remain in power, this is what you must do. He didn't do it. So, take him out. The mistake that we made was not doing it in 1991. I blame Colin Powell as he's pretty soft for a military person.

This will get bumped around the judicial system for a few months and be non-news by January. It all amounts to nothing in the end.

And I'm going to invoke the Mesopotamian law that anyone using the initials "GB" on a message board is always right. I don't believe that was ever repealed either. Discussion over.

Flash, grow up.

Number ONE. Greenpeace was boarding a freight liner, not an oil tanker. All they did was hang a banner, not try to take the ship over and run it aground.

You blame Colin Powell for what? Nixing Bush's ideas to use nuclear weapons as bunker busters?!?

Who the hell cares if their "intent" is "Peaceful" protest. No asshat has any friggin right to forceably board any goddam ship for any goddam reason, exept a meritime law-enforcemnt body. Good friggin grief, it's not like they stood outside the goddam dock and chanted Combya! When they put their little ship in front a whale'ers cannon, I'm rooting for em, you better believe it. When they take something to the media and expose some illegal activity, I'm all for it. But no-body, and I mean no-body has any right to board a ship by force unless it's the friggin coast gaurd or if somone's life is at stake.

Hope they hang'em high!

should be "Over my dead body." with no italics...stupid tags.

Funny, useless, how many times have they boarded ships before? Only NOW you're ok with them getting flattened to the wall?

And another thing, why aren't they going after E.L.F.? At least Dubya can kill two birds with one stone, get the DoJ on someone that REALLY deserves it and still advance his agenda...

lardweasel: As a democrat, I really have to say you give me hope for the United States and Republicans. It's rarely seen (especially on fark) that Republicans criticize the Bush administration or anything. It's really scary to see people still rally behind them in the face of doing such terrible things with the country. Not that liberals are any better in that respect, of course.

I disagree with you about Bush, I don't like him. My dislike for him, however, is nothing compared to how much I hate Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Ashcroft.

I also disagree with you about Greenpeace. So far they seem to be mostly harmless, and the rest of us can be amused by the banners they put up. And someones gotta call attention to the things they are.

Here, since you gave us liberals one, I guess I should give you one: It was wrong of Clinton to lie under oath. Thats a bit out of date now though, I'll give you another when theres a Democrat in office.

By the way, if not for Bush, who will you vote for? A Democrat, Liberatarian or what?

I would guess they don't go after ELF because they're not as well known as Greenpeace. Gotta go after the name brands.

Definition of an ideologue: (1) a proponent of an ideology; (2) an impractical theorist.

Er? I'm all for random posts, but que es el pointe?

It would not surprise me a bit if someone takes Bush out before the election. Seriously, it seems like every day he or someone in his administration does something that makes people wince! I hope nothing like this does happen, but it just wouldn't surprise me if it did. Then, Cheney will run the country for a few months and get spanked in the 2004 election and someone else will be in the White House.

-/not advocating violence, just making an observation

Jonas:

I have no idea, at this point, of how I'm going to vote. I just know that it won't be for G.W. unless he turns his act around and cans Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, and Cheney before the election. I can tow the party line for only so long.

I'll lean towards libertarian vs. democrat. That's just how I'm wired. But no more neocon stuff for me, thanks. They've farked up so much of what I held dear about my party and coontry.

Ashcroft is doing the world a service; The only reason why this hundred year old law was invoked is that no group has been stupid enough to board commercial ships to cause chaos until now.
Greenpeace has a long and frightening history of harassing and blockading ships loaded with far more dangerous cargo than mahogany. They've messed with and attempted to board; nuclear submarines in Britain, Russia and France, and risking disaster, chased and stood in the way of a Japanese ship loaded with Plutonium reactor fuel. These left wing radical retards had it coming; they've been causing trouble worldwide and were long overdue for getting their ass handed to them in court.

Notice that Bush only gets aggressive with weak opponents.

-why doesn't he get tough with organized crime?
-street gangs?
-North Korea too tough for him?

Now he's getting tough with Green Peace what an asswipe, ohh what are they gonna do? sail around the potomac with there inflatable rafts?

I don't know who pisses me off more Bush or the morons who voted him in power...

Burgina
Greenpeace has a long and frightening history of harassing and blockading ships.


Firghtening history? what are you talking about?!

Try sailing an oil tanker in the Indian Ocean? Your ship will get boarded by pirates and the ship will be a few thousand lighter. Most ship carry an extra 10K just for the pirates.

Again with my theory, bush will engage weak opponents, like a bunch of hippies but not a bunch terrorizing pirates...

Burgina:

I'm not going to disagree with your feelings about Greenpeace. They pull off some pretty stupid crap.

That said, they should be charged under existing laws, like disrupting commerce, tresspassing, et al.

This action, however, is designed to shut them down. And ONLY THEM. That's illegal. The law must be equitably applied across the board. If we don't have rule of law, then we're farked.

And also raising a legal eyebrow to the ramifications of this, who's next? Under what pretext? How many 19th century laws are out there that lie in wait?

What if they decide that only Protestant marriages are legal, and that everyone else has commited adultery?.

A straw man, yes...but food for thought.

-Koz

LostInKorea...my, aren't you the judgemental one. Just because I play devil's advocate in a debate, why should I be labled as either Democrat or Republican? Perhaps if you were a little more open minded you might see things beyond black and white. And chill out.

So what corny ancient law do you think will be invoked to give Bush another 4 years?

hmmmm.. War act maybe? Or perhaps the powers that be will just put their own guy in charge of the other party.

Ah the two party system.

The protesters should be charged for trespassing. Nothing more.

The DOJ knows that there is no way that the Greenpeace itself can be held responsible for the simple crime of trespassing.

The workaround is to invoke this arcane 19th century law to charge the Greenpeace organization with conspiracy to sailor mongering which is way beyond the established practice of prosecuting civil disobedience at face value.

Greenpeace is an extremist group but their activities (in this and many other cases) are very much peaceful. I may not agree with GP but please put everything into context.

No-one is arguing that these protesters should not be charged with trespassing. It is the change in policy of attacking the actual protest movements and organizations by the government that is raising eyebrows.

Next bush abolishes the senate, and takes direct control with the help of the regional governors.
Everything is going according to plan. The dark side of the force is strong with this one.

THe Truth ads have made a significant impact on my kids. The guy who brought two lungs to their school, one of a smoker and one of a non-smoker, worked even better.

Oh,I just realized that you're from Canada. Why the all complaining then?

The statist cheerleaders in this thread are creeping me the fark out. Nothing like seeing the wannabe Ashcroft Youth in action on the battleground of the Internet.

If a government outlaws the colour blue and then uses this law only to prosecute people it doesn't like whom they find wearing blue, "THEY BROKE THE LAW" is not a justification.

I should not have to explain this.

Burgina: That second link is awesome. They did a very good thing there, exposed how bad security was at the nuclear power plant by marching, en masse, into the plant's control room without being stopped. 140 of them!

That is GOOD. It's good that they did that. I am glad people are doing that. Nuclear power is dangerous, and isn't being kept safe enough, and its good they that do it and call attention to it before an actual terrorist does it. Thats exactly thier point, apparently they were right, and they called attention to it, hopefully it was fixed. It was GOOD!

About eco-terrorism, you're throwing the word terrorism around way to much. Nobody is being terrorised, they don't mean to invoke terror on anyone. It's activism and civil disobedience, pure and simple.

Don't people in Greenpeace have anything better to do with their time than to protest ships they THINK has mahogany on it? Drugs are illegal too but you don't see Greenpeace going after those ships. Not to mention I think drugs are more of a menace to society than a couple of wood logs.

Again with the new laws. After decades of interfering with shipping, fishing, and military vessels, they should just be charged with piracy under maratime law. Activism my ass. These guys are a danger to themselves and others.