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(Yahoo)   Greek leaders push back decision on austerity cuts, leading to an inevitably bigger mess   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 47
    More: Followup, Greek, tranches, Greek leaders  
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1167 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Jul 2012 at 3:16 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-18 12:20:07 PM  
You know what Socrates said about austerity in Greece..."I drank what?"
 
2012-07-18 12:32:04 PM  
images.businessweek.com

THIS IS SPARTAN


/Very old joke is very old
 
2012-07-18 02:33:07 PM  
is that a greek butt sex joke, subby? i feel like that's a greek butt sex joke.
 
2012-07-18 03:50:17 PM  

thomps: is that a greek butt sex joke, subby? i feel like that's a greek butt sex joke.


that's what i thought too, though it should be "push in"
 
2012-07-18 03:52:00 PM  
Oh, ffs, just let them default already so we can all go home.
 
2012-07-18 03:52:07 PM  

SpikeStrip: thomps: is that a greek butt sex joke, subby? i feel like that's a greek butt sex joke.

that's what i thought too, though it should be "push in"


well, greek leaders could just be power-bottoms.
 
2012-07-18 04:07:52 PM  
If you want the beatings to stop, kill yourself.
 
2012-07-18 04:13:57 PM  

thomps: is that a greek butt sex joke, subby? i feel like that's a greek butt sex joke.


It's missing a reference to oil.
 
2012-07-18 04:16:30 PM  
each of whom is keen to avoid appearing in favor of cuts that heap more misery on austerity-weary voters.


hate to break it to you...but more misery IS coming the way of the voters

stop worrying about appearances and instead just do whats right to help the country

i know, i know.. im dreaming again, sorry
 
2012-07-18 04:25:32 PM  

kattana: each of whom is keen to avoid appearing in favor of cuts that heap more misery on austerity-weary voters.

hate to break it to you...but more misery IS coming the way of the voters

stop worrying about appearances and instead just do whats right to help the country

i know, i know.. im dreaming again, sorry


At this point they are trying to get blood from a stone. Many people have NOTHING left to give. Take a look at the unemployment rate. If you want to have your mind really blown look at the youth unemployment rate. The solution here is default. It always has been. It's just a question of when at this point.
 
2012-07-18 04:40:46 PM  
This is going to be very exciting to see how this turns out. I Don't think Gildman-sachs has ever been able to claim it destroyed an entire country before this, meaning it will now graduate into the elite ranks of such lumniaries as the British East India Company, and the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company
 
2012-07-18 04:58:39 PM  

Magorn: This is going to be very exciting to see how this turns out. I Don't think Gildman-sachs has ever been able to claim it destroyed an entire country before this, meaning it will now graduate into the elite ranks of such lumniaries as the British East India Company, and the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company


I'm glad someone else says this publicly. I don't much like political debates nowadays ("Yuh huh!" "Nuh uh!"), but any sane person should be able to cast an evil eye at GS for actually destroying a country, and intentionally to boot.

I'd really like to see a country declare war (literal, not figurative) on GS. Wars have been declared for far less.
 
2012-07-18 05:08:33 PM  

Magorn: This is going to be very exciting to see how this turns out. I Don't think Gildman-sachs has ever been able to claim it destroyed an entire country before this, meaning it will now graduate into the elite ranks of such lumniaries as the British East India Company, and the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company


Greece is their beta test, they'll soon move onto bigger countries.
 
2012-07-18 05:18:34 PM  

FitzShivering: Magorn: This is going to be very exciting to see how this turns out. I Don't think Gildman-sachs has ever been able to claim it destroyed an entire country before this, meaning it will now graduate into the elite ranks of such lumniaries as the British East India Company, and the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company

I'm glad someone else says this publicly. I don't much like political debates nowadays ("Yuh huh!" "Nuh uh!"), but any sane person should be able to cast an evil eye at GS for actually destroying a country, and intentionally to boot.

I'd really like to see a country declare war (literal, not figurative) on GS. Wars have been declared for far less.


GS didn't destroy the country. At worst, they were the drug dealer to Greece's Amy Winehouse.
 
2012-07-18 05:30:55 PM  

FitzShivering: Magorn: This is going to be very exciting to see how this turns out. I Don't think Gildman-sachs has ever been able to claim it destroyed an entire country before this, meaning it will now graduate into the elite ranks of such lumniaries as the British East India Company, and the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company

I'm glad someone else says this publicly. I don't much like political debates nowadays ("Yuh huh!" "Nuh uh!"), but any sane person should be able to cast an evil eye at GS for actually destroying a country, and intentionally to boot.

I'd really like to see a country declare war (literal, not figurative) on GS. Wars have been declared for far less.


Goldman Sachs! drink!
 
2012-07-18 05:35:50 PM  

Marine1: Oh, ffs, just let them default already so we can all go home.


This. The stalling is getting old at this point and there is no other real option. The old dude from the those awful Matrix sequels needs to tell the folks of Greece that "Greece is going to fall and there is nothing you can do to stop it." And then the Greeks could walk through the wrong door and save Trinity or something. Idk, I got confused at that point of the film.
 
2012-07-18 05:46:57 PM  
Greek leaders push back decision on austerity cuts, leading to an inevitably bigger mess

What is the Greek word for that... san- something... Santorum?
 
jvl
2012-07-18 06:07:58 PM  

Marine1: Oh, ffs, just let them default already so we can all go home.


If they default, they still have to implement austerity to get loans since they are running a budget deficit. Better to pass austerity now while scapegoating the Germans, and then default.
 
2012-07-18 06:27:45 PM  

FrancoFile: GS didn't destroy the country. At worst, they were the drug dealer to Greece's Amy Winehouse.



Greece didn't have runaway debt and nobody wanting to buy bonds sold by their government until GS created fiscal cliffs for all of Europe and their banks to fall off from.
 
2012-07-18 06:38:04 PM  

intelligent comment below: FrancoFile: GS didn't destroy the country. At worst, they were the drug dealer to Greece's Amy Winehouse.


Greece didn't have runaway debt and nobody wanting to buy bonds sold by their government until GS created fiscal cliffs for all of Europe and their banks to fall off from.


So funny.
 
2012-07-18 07:04:01 PM  
A totally bank-manufactured and bank-managed crisis.
An watch, unless the banks get their deal, the banks will let the sword fall.
They will get their deal.
 
2012-07-18 07:47:26 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: intelligent comment below: FrancoFile: GS didn't destroy the country. At worst, they were the drug dealer to Greece's Amy Winehouse.


Greece didn't have runaway debt and nobody wanting to buy bonds sold by their government until GS created fiscal cliffs for all of Europe and their banks to fall off from.

So funny.


Until it dries off, they'll be at Gotham Lounge this evening if you want to give it a shot.
 
2012-07-18 07:49:30 PM  
One thing that confuses me a bit:

Can't Greece exist without foreign banks?

I don't mean "as a player on the world stage" or any of that bollocks. I'm talking about saying "fark it all" and just going back to a basic society for a while. They have means of production for food. They have land. They have the blueprints for a dozen different types of government. They're already beyond broke. Why can't they just default, close up foreign trade, and spend some time getting back on their feet? They'll miss out in the next Xbox, but when it comes down to brass tacks, they aren't entirely beyond self-sustenance, are they?

AFAIK/have heard, Greece is actually rather well-equipped for their people to live entirely pleasurable (if not comfortable) lives. Fark world currencies. Fark loans. There are fish to be caught, berries/fruits/droops/etc. to be picked, boats to be maintained, roads to be resurfaced, buildings to be rebuilt... (you get the picture)

Greece isn't a dust bowl. Things are bad now and their quality of life is absolutely going to take a nose-dive, but can't they simply be Greeks for a while and get their shiat in order?

The US certainly couldn't, but Greece (in one form or another) has been around as long as civilization itself.
 
2012-07-18 07:56:03 PM  

Kuroshin: One thing that confuses me a bit:

Can't Greece exist without foreign banks?

I don't mean "as a player on the world stage" or any of that bollocks. I'm talking about saying "fark it all" and just going back to a basic society for a while. They have means of production for food. They have land. They have the blueprints for a dozen different types of government. They're already beyond broke. Why can't they just default, close up foreign trade, and spend some time getting back on their feet? They'll miss out in the next Xbox, but when it comes down to brass tacks, they aren't entirely beyond self-sustenance, are they?

AFAIK/have heard, Greece is actually rather well-equipped for their people to live entirely pleasurable (if not comfortable) lives. Fark world currencies. Fark loans. There are fish to be caught, berries/fruits/droops/etc. to be picked, boats to be maintained, roads to be resurfaced, buildings to be rebuilt... (you get the picture)

Greece isn't a dust bowl. Things are bad now and their quality of life is absolutely going to take a nose-dive, but can't they simply be Greeks for a while and get their shiat in order?

The US certainly couldn't, but Greece (in one form or another) has been around as long as civilization itself.


Actually, I think of it as the opposite. Plenty of countries borrow over their GDP... the US and Japan are examples... but have the means to sustain the debt. Greece was a tourist attraction with nothing to pay off its cooked books when the tourists went home in the recession. The US has a farking ton of natural resources and a huge educated populace; the Japanese have an innovative economy that still makes its bills. The Greeks? They said screw it on paying taxes and went full retard on bookkeeping. For them to go back to self-sustaining behavior would mean going back... well... a few hundred years, at the very least. Like, disease and starvation skyrocketing.
 
jvl
2012-07-18 08:04:08 PM  

Kuroshin: Greece isn't a dust bowl. Things are bad now and their quality of life is absolutely going to take a nose-dive, but can't they simply be Greeks for a while and get their shiat in order?

The US certainly couldn't, but Greece (in one form or another) has been around as long as civilization itself.


You are suggesting that a people who refuse to pay taxes to support the public good could just work together for the public good.

Moreover, you are suggesting that in the US, where people pay taxes for the public good, people are less community-minded than Greece, where people refuse to pay their taxes.

You suggest that Greece is somehow good because the people who lived there two and a half millennia ago created some interesting things. Greek culture has been completely overhauled many times since then. Invasions of foreign tribes have pretty much replaced the genetics of whoever was living there. Is it your theory that there is something in the water which makes them better suited for civilization?
 
2012-07-18 08:32:27 PM  
Never got Athens to mouth.
 
2012-07-18 08:33:06 PM  
*go

/or got
 
2012-07-18 08:59:53 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: intelligent comment below: FrancoFile: GS didn't destroy the country. At worst, they were the drug dealer to Greece's Amy Winehouse.


Greece didn't have runaway debt and nobody wanting to buy bonds sold by their government until GS created fiscal cliffs for all of Europe and their banks to fall off from.

So funny.



Explain how the debt in Greece was any worse than Germany, America, Japan, UK, or anyone else?

The problems started when the problem countries had to bail out their banks, the mortgage crisis hit, the economy in the EU went sour, and the cascade effect took down everyone.
 
2012-07-18 09:01:47 PM  

Marine1: the Japanese have an innovative economy that still makes its bills.



Not even close. Japan is an aging population that hasn't climbed out of its recession in the early 1990's

It has a huge debt but its own central bank keeps buying bonds so it will never get called out on it like these European countries who relied on bond sales to private buyers.

True Greece has huge issues with tax evasion, but that's mainly from the rich and corporations.
 
2012-07-18 09:27:31 PM  

jvl: Kuroshin: Greece isn't a dust bowl. Things are bad now and their quality of life is absolutely going to take a nose-dive, but can't they simply be Greeks for a while and get their shiat in order?

The US certainly couldn't, but Greece (in one form or another) has been around as long as civilization itself.

You are suggesting that a people who refuse to pay taxes to support the public good could just work together for the public good.

Moreover, you are suggesting that in the US, where people pay taxes for the public good, people are less community-minded than Greece, where people refuse to pay their taxes.

You suggest that Greece is somehow good because the people who lived there two and a half millennia ago created some interesting things. Greek culture has been completely overhauled many times since then. Invasions of foreign tribes have pretty much replaced the genetics of whoever was living there. Is it your theory that there is something in the water which makes them better suited for civilization?


I'm not assuming anything of the sort.

Quick exercise: Everything falls back to nothing - It's going to anyway, so this shouldn't be much of a stretch. What do they do? Riots burn themselves out. There's just nothing left to plunder, no rage to unleash, and no fuel left to waste. What is preventing them from living a rather solid agrarian existence?

Yes yes yes, I know, "politics" or "damn communists" or "lazy Greeks" yadda yadda yadda... How about we go ahead and grant that they are still Human and after being forced to face their inevitable reality they will find a way to survive?

They are going to lose all their shiat. Nothing can stop it now. They are ruined financially. Game over.

Now, what about what happens after the game ends?
 
2012-07-18 09:35:23 PM  
The mess is going to be there whether or not they intelligent comment below: Explain how the debt in Greece was any worse than Germany, America, Japan, UK, or anyone else?

Nothing to explain, just look at the interest rate they're paying.
 
2012-07-18 09:35:58 PM  
The mess is going to be there whether or not they

FIFM
 
2012-07-18 10:14:12 PM  

intelligent comment below: Debeo Summa Credo: intelligent comment below: FrancoFile: GS didn't destroy the country. At worst, they were the drug dealer to Greece's Amy Winehouse.


Greece didn't have runaway debt and nobody wanting to buy bonds sold by their government until GS created fiscal cliffs for all of Europe and their banks to fall off from.

So funny.


Explain how the debt in Greece was any worse than Germany, America, Japan, UK, or anyone else?

The problems started when the problem countries had to bail out their banks, the mortgage crisis hit, the economy in the EU went sour, and the cascade effect took down everyone.


How much would you lend to the Greeks vs the Japanese or the us treasury? At what rate? They overspend and they can't collect taxes and their economy sucks balls compared to more efficient nations. None of this is Goldman Sachs fault. But it is reality, which is why nobody in their right mind will lend to them at less than usurious rates.
 
2012-07-18 10:29:48 PM  
Who will run the country? Colonels or Communists?
 
2012-07-18 10:52:10 PM  

Fark Me To Tears: Greek leaders push back decision on austerity cuts, leading to an inevitably bigger mess

What is the Greek word for that... san- something... Santorum?


Inter-planetarium InSanatorium
 
2012-07-19 12:46:08 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: None of this is Goldman Sachs fault.


Of course! It never is! It's always someone elses fault with the party of personal responsibility

It's always the poor banks, corporations and the wealthy who are being taken advantage of

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-06/goldman-secret-greece-loan-s h ows-two-sinners-as-client-unravels.html
 
2012-07-19 12:52:07 AM  

SpikeStrip: thomps: is that a greek butt sex joke, subby? i feel like that's a greek butt sex joke.

that's what i thought too, though it should be "push in"


Bite the gyro, I'm going in dry.
 
2012-07-19 12:59:12 AM  
Remember when administration favorite Jon Corzine cratered a company and "lost" (as in, probably took it to cover their own positions) a billion or so of customer money by going big into Greek and other European sovereign debt?

Funny how that story isn't reported any more.
 
2012-07-19 01:26:12 AM  

MrEricSir: Nothing to explain, just look at the interest rate they're paying.



So you are trying to claim interest rates are set by rational investors looking at all factors? Interesting, so why are America's at all time lows yet their debt to GDP is at an all time high? Same with Japan.
 
2012-07-19 01:29:15 AM  

Kuroshin: One thing that confuses me a bit:

Can't Greece exist without foreign banks?

I don't mean "as a player on the world stage" or any of that bollocks. I'm talking about saying "fark it all" and just going back to a basic society for a while. They have means of production for food. They have land. They have the blueprints for a dozen different types of government. They're already beyond broke. Why can't they just default, close up foreign trade, and spend some time getting back on their feet? They'll miss out in the next Xbox, but when it comes down to brass tacks, they aren't entirely beyond self-sustenance, are they?


Greece imports 40 percent of the food it consumes, nearly all of its oil and natural gas and much of its medicine.

So there's not enough food, and no fuel to move the little food there is from the farms to the city. Result is riots and chaos. After you're injured in the food-riots, you walk to the closest doctor (no oil for fuel), and find that there's no antibiotics to help treat your wound. Does that sound like somewhere most tourists would like to go? No? Well that means further collapse of Greek business, because they're highly reliant on tourism. On the bright side, that solves the problem that was happening on the farm as the tractors on the farms broke down, and couldn't be repaired (agricultural machine parts are mostly imports): the people who used to work in tourism related fields can get jobs on the farms ploughing the fields. Of course the guy with the business degree who was used to sitting in an air-conditioned office is not exactly happy about the back-breaking manual labour, but at least he's not starving to death, right?
 
2012-07-19 01:33:26 AM  

intelligent comment below: MrEricSir: Nothing to explain, just look at the interest rate they're paying.

So you are trying to claim interest rates are set by rational investors looking at all factors? Interesting, so why are America's at all time lows yet their debt to GDP is at an all time high? Same with Japan.


Are you saying you know better than the investors? Because I find that unlikely.
 
2012-07-19 01:41:35 AM  

Kuroshin: Quick exercise: Everything falls back to nothing - It's going to anyway, so this shouldn't be much of a stretch. What do they do? Riots burn themselves out. There's just nothing left to plunder, no rage to unleash, and no fuel left to waste. What is preventing them from living a rather solid agrarian existence?


The fact that even now they need to import most of there food.

Also in the way is the part where they are in a border free area and could just pick up and go to some other country that isn't a backwards ass shiathole because unfortunately they have the right to move around in the EU. I kind of doubt they are going to regress to be 13th century peasants when they could just pack up and move to one of the countries they farked over in their short sighted selfishness.
 
2012-07-19 06:56:44 AM  

intelligent comment below: Debeo Summa Credo: None of this is Goldman Sachs fault.

Of course! It never is! It's always someone elses fault with the party of personal responsibility

It's always the poor banks, corporations and the wealthy who are being taken advantage of

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-06/goldman-secret-greece-loan-s h ows-two-sinners-as-client-unravels.html


Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. The guy defending the country that overspends, can't collect taxes, has a woefully inefficient economy and has had to beg it's European neighbors claims it's not Greece's fault. It's someone else's! It's those greedy banks whose products we used to help us cheat!
 
2012-07-19 10:18:17 AM  

intelligent comment below: MrEricSir: Nothing to explain, just look at the interest rate they're paying.


So you are trying to claim interest rates are set by rational investors looking at all factors? Interesting, so why are America's at all time lows yet their debt to GDP is at an all time high? Same with Japan.


Because we always pay our debts back.
 
2012-07-19 11:43:47 AM  

intelligent comment below: Debeo Summa Credo: intelligent comment below: FrancoFile: GS didn't destroy the country. At worst, they were the drug dealer to Greece's Amy Winehouse.


Greece didn't have runaway debt and nobody wanting to buy bonds sold by their government until GS created fiscal cliffs for all of Europe and their banks to fall off from.

So funny.


Explain how the debt in Greece was any worse than Germany, America, Japan, UK, or anyone else?

The problems started when the problem countries had to bail out their banks, the mortgage crisis hit, the economy in the EU went sour, and the cascade effect took down the Greeks became corrupt bastards sometime in the 70s. The fecal matter hit the impeller when they found out that GS helped the Greek government cook their books.

 
2012-07-19 06:48:36 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Because we always pay our debts back.



Is that why America's rating was lowered? Why the debt ceiling debate is still going on?


MrEricSir: Are you saying you know better than the investors? Because I find that unlikely.


Who said I know better? I merely stated that the interest rate market is heavily manipulated and not a good indicator of fiscal health. If it was, America and Japan would be in bad shape.

None of the European banks have extra money in the first place, they all are trying to recover from their bad investments and bailouts.
 
2012-07-19 06:50:28 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. The guy defending the country that overspends, can't collect taxes, has a woefully inefficient economy and has had to beg it's European neighbors claims it's not Greece's fault. It's someone else's! It's those greedy banks whose products we used to help us cheat!



Defend the country?

You claimed it was NOT GS fault. You're a pathetic shill and a liar.

GS and others created derivatives that netted them millions in fees that not even the fully understood. That caused the fiscal cliff all these countries and banks fell off.

But how dare you blame the people who created the instruments that collapsed in the mortgage crisis, blame the investors!

I bet you run a ponzi scheme and sleep at night because, like Maddoff, you blame your investors for being greedy.
 
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