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(Cincinnati Enquirer)   Boss: Sure I will agree to a $1.4 million bonus and a five year employment contract, but only on the condition I get to keep the only copy of the contract. Employee: Seems legit, where do I sign?   (communitypress.cincinnati.com) divider line 30
    More: Dumbass, Edward Wanandi, semi-trailer trucks, compensatory damages, Special Sections  
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6119 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Jul 2012 at 12:39 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-18 10:55:33 AM  
I'm sort of curious how they managed to prove this in court. Did they get the owner to admit to the contract, but he thought that being unable to produce it meant that it was unenforceable?
 
2012-07-18 11:00:44 AM  

Donnchadha: I'm sort of curious how they managed to prove this in court. Did they get the owner to admit to the contract, but he thought that being unable to produce it meant that it was unenforceable?


My take from reading it is that she admitted he had it, but claimed he had never signed it so it didn't matter.
 
2012-07-18 11:02:30 AM  

NickelP: Donnchadha: I'm sort of curious how they managed to prove this in court. Did they get the owner to admit to the contract, but he thought that being unable to produce it meant that it was unenforceable?

My take from reading it is that she admitted he had it, but claimed he had never signed it so it didn't matter.


Isn't that.... fraud?
 
2012-07-18 11:04:48 AM  

kingoomieiii: NickelP: Donnchadha: I'm sort of curious how they managed to prove this in court. Did they get the owner to admit to the contract, but he thought that being unable to produce it meant that it was unenforceable?

My take from reading it is that she admitted he had it, but claimed he had never signed it so it didn't matter.

Isn't that.... fraud?


I would assume so since he got a 2 mil judgement against him.
 
2012-07-18 11:29:58 AM  
I have no sympathy for someone so stupid as to give up any record of a signed contract worth $1.6 million
 
2012-07-18 12:58:27 PM  
In other news, stupid people don't deserve money.
 
2012-07-18 01:07:02 PM  

Donnchadha: I'm sort of curious how they managed to prove this in court. Did they get the owner to admit to the contract, but he thought that being unable to produce it meant that it was unenforceable?


My guess is the slimeball said something like... "I never signed that contract after you did!" thinking it was some killer loop hole and the judge decided that was deceptive. But I am just guessing.

He would have been better off saying "What contract!?!?!"
 
2012-07-18 01:09:01 PM  

ArkAngel: I have no sympathy for someone so stupid as to give up any record of a signed contract worth $1.6 million


I have no sympathy for someone who has someone else sign a contract, purposely doesn't sign it himself, and than admits to it in a court of law.
 
2012-07-18 01:21:01 PM  
Bossy also promised that the dude would get a big chunk of cash if he was fired, which he was. Also, the long contract was contingent on the company not being sold, or some such, because the potential buyers wanted the guy to keep working there, where he had been the CEO for a decade. The sale fell through and the owner/bossy was screwed, then he fired the guy without coughing up the cash.

Hello lawyers.
 
2012-07-18 02:04:00 PM  
Finally, a Black gets justice.
 
2012-07-18 02:10:17 PM  
Anyone else notice, the excessive use, of, commas? Its like Shatner wrote it.

/going back to read the article in Shatner's voice.
 
US1
2012-07-18 02:25:05 PM  

ArkAngel: I have no sympathy for someone so stupid as to give up any record of a signed contract worth $1.6 million



luckily the court does and you are not a judge or a jury foreman for the matter; tool
 
2012-07-18 02:56:50 PM  

Pro Zack: Finally, a Black gets justice.


Heh.
 
2012-07-18 03:23:04 PM  
Government interfering with small businesse yet again.
 
2012-07-18 03:42:45 PM  
$2million judgement? So the guy walked away with $3.50 after his lawyers took their share?
 
2012-07-18 03:58:46 PM  
I don't care how long you've known somebody or how well you have gotten along to this point. When it's a bunch of money on the line, you don't trust the other person. Ever.
 
2012-07-18 04:30:47 PM  

SpectroBoy: Donnchadha: I'm sort of curious how they managed to prove this in court. Did they get the owner to admit to the contract, but he thought that being unable to produce it meant that it was unenforceable?

My guess is the slimeball said something like... "I never signed that contract after you did!" thinking it was some killer loop hole and the judge decided that was deceptive. But I am just guessing.

He would have been better off saying "What contract!?!?!"


The signature doesn't make the contract. The intent makes the contract.

This asshole deserved to lose.
 
2012-07-18 05:03:43 PM  

Lost Thought 00: $2million judgement? So the guy walked away with $3.50 after his lawyers took their share?


If you bothered to read the article, you'd see that they're going for legal costs separately.
 
2012-07-18 05:05:59 PM  

Rent Party: The signature doesn't make the contract. The intent makes the contract.

This asshole deserved to lose.


I completely agree. He had a stupid plan to rip someone off and he got busted.

I think some jail time (in addition to the fine) are in order.
 
2012-07-18 05:51:09 PM  

kingoomieiii: NickelP: Donnchadha: I'm sort of curious how they managed to prove this in court. Did they get the owner to admit to the contract, but he thought that being unable to produce it meant that it was unenforceable?

My take from reading it is that she admitted he had it, but claimed he had never signed it so it didn't matter.

Isn't that.... fraud?


Not really. The two parties entered into a verbal contract when they agreed to the terms. The written contract only helps to prove that the contract exists. I guess the employee's lawyer(s) were able to prove there was a valid contract or get the owner to confess to one.
 
2012-07-18 06:35:42 PM  
Years ago I had to deliver an item to someone and it was damaged. My company offered to let him keep and use the damaged one and replace it at a week later with a new one. The customer quickly typed out a memo to that effect and insisted I sign it. He then let me keep, and leave with, the only copy.

/We kept our word BTW.
//But what a dumbass.
 
2012-07-18 06:39:28 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Years ago I had to deliver an item to someone and it was damaged. My company offered to let him keep and use the damaged one and replace it at a week later with a new one. The customer quickly typed out a memo to that effect and insisted I sign it. He then let me keep, and leave with, the only copy.

/We kept our word BTW.
//But what a dumbass.


"I have no right of agency with my employer." Put that under your signature.
 
2012-07-18 06:55:42 PM  

Rent Party: Flint Ironstag: Years ago I had to deliver an item to someone and it was damaged. My company offered to let him keep and use the damaged one and replace it at a week later with a new one. The customer quickly typed out a memo to that effect and insisted I sign it. He then let me keep, and leave with, the only copy.

/We kept our word BTW.
//But what a dumbass.

"I have no right of agency with my employer." Put that under your signature.


I was a salesman at the time. In the UK at least anything we tell the customer is legally binding and can be grounds for a refund. If I tell a customer a product has Feature X and it doesn't, legally they have the right to a refund. If the customer just assumed it had Feature X, no refund.
 
2012-07-18 07:08:16 PM  

Rent Party: "I have no right of agency with my employer." Put that under your signature.


If you have no right of agency, then what right do you have to declare whether you have right of agency or not?

If things went bad and it went to court, your employers would be the ones arguing that the 'contract' in the memo is invalid because you as a mere delivery person had no standing to speak for the company.
 
2012-07-18 07:15:10 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Rent Party: "I have no right of agency with my employer." Put that under your signature.

If you have no right of agency, then what right do you have to declare whether you have right of agency or not?

If things went bad and it went to court, your employers would be the ones arguing that the 'contract' in the memo is invalid because you as a mere delivery person had no standing to speak for the company.


If things went bad and you have specifically told the customer that you have no right of agency, but you're happy to put your signature right there, that is all the courts will need. "I have no authority to sign contracts for my company" is a pretty simple statement. I say it all the time, and I negotiate the damn things.

If you fail to let the customer know you do not have agency, and even so much as imply that you do, then you're in trouble.
 
2012-07-18 07:20:29 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Rent Party: Flint Ironstag: Years ago I had to deliver an item to someone and it was damaged. My company offered to let him keep and use the damaged one and replace it at a week later with a new one. The customer quickly typed out a memo to that effect and insisted I sign it. He then let me keep, and leave with, the only copy.

/We kept our word BTW.
//But what a dumbass.

"I have no right of agency with my employer." Put that under your signature.

I was a salesman at the time. In the UK at least anything we tell the customer is legally binding and can be grounds for a refund. If I tell a customer a product has Feature X and it doesn't, legally they have the right to a refund. If the customer just assumed it had Feature X, no refund.


That sucks, dude. Here in the US if you just present a list of features but have no consideration in the deal, it's not an offer. You have to ask for something in return.

All of my commercial proposals state "subject to contract" in them for just that reason.
 
2012-07-18 08:16:46 PM  

Rent Party: "I have no right of agency with my employer." Put that under your signature.


Why even do that? Just state that "In a phone conversation with *INSERT PERSON* my employer has authorized replacement of *INSERT ITEM* which was defective on delivery".

You're not promising the replacement, you're just providing witness and reassurance. Your potential liability is jack and at most (if this was something really valuable) you'd have to testify exactly what you signed: that X told you they'd make it right / authorized the replacement.
 
2012-07-18 10:15:29 PM  
US1: ArkAngel: I have no sympathy for someone so stupid as to give up any record of a signed contract worth $1.6 million


luckily the court does and you are not a judge or a jury foreman for the matter; tool


I certainly would have ruled/voted the same way this case went, but if he had lost, I would have had no sympathy. A fool and his money are soon parted
 
2012-07-19 05:09:40 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: Lost Thought 00: $2million judgement? So the guy walked away with $3.50 after his lawyers took their share?

If you bothered to read the article, you'd see that they're going for legal costs separately.


And if you bothered to think, then you'd understand that they may not win that aspect, and the $3.50 estimate is accurate.
 
2012-07-19 08:08:48 AM  

Rent Party:
That sucks, dude. Here in the US if you just present a list of features but have no consideration in the deal, it's not an offer. You have to ask for something in return.

All of my commercial proposals state "subject to contract" in them for just that reason.


It's swings and roundabouts. Reading lots of comments from Americans about retail it looks like the UK has far better protection for the consumer, but on the other hand few UK retailers will let customers return things if they simply change their mind. You bought it, it's yours. The end.
 
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