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(JSOnline)   Judge throws out Wisconsin's voter ID law   (jsonline.com) divider line 337
    More: Interesting, ID laws, Wisconsin, League of Women Voters, voter ID, state Government Accountability Board, J.B. Van Hollen, Dane County, University of Wisconsin-Madison  
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4291 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Jul 2012 at 8:01 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-18 02:28:28 AM  
Good. As well it should.

Voter fraud is NOT a problem. *election* fraud...

/so effing glad my gov isn't so in the GOPs pocket
//Michigander
 
2012-07-18 02:32:43 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Silly Jesus: A poll tax...really? Because you need a birth certificate for the ID? Is my gas to get me to the voting booth a Poll Tax as well? What about the bus fare?

You do know that the birth certificate and the ID both would cost money. Additionally no, there are free rides to the polling place that are organized in your area. Take advantage of them, if you wish. Contact your local party headquarters and they'll pick you up, no charge.


I did election work for a Dem in 08.

We found a ride for an elderly person who flat out told the caller they were voting straight Rep.

I'd like to think we changed her vote, but even if we didn't ... we had a van in that direction so we still picked her up.

/shrug
 
2012-07-18 02:35:35 AM  

consider this: How many people don't have a photo ID? This shiat is so much about nothing.


We'll find out if the laws are still around in a few years as the only constitutional implementation is going to be to have the government offer IDs for 'free.'

Voter ID bills == spending bills
 
2012-07-18 02:51:23 AM  

KarmicDisaster: phaseolus: runwiz: If voter fraud is such a threat to democracy, why doesn't the state spend money on providing easy access to free photo IDs for people who need one rather than spend the money on defending a voter ID law in court?

Yeah, about that -- here in WI when the Repubs passed their voter ID bill, their civil service apparatchiks moved to close or reduce hours at some locations, and increase access in other locations.

You'll never guess how the proposed changes in service hours correlated with redness/blueness of the surrounding area.

Lemme go find a link, they may have had to walk it back a little, but just the fact they tried invalidates Silly Jesus' "hey it's easy" argument.


How about how you could get an ID for free, so it wasn't a poll tax, but the Walker Administration instructed the DMV that they were not allowed to tell people about the free ID unless they directly asked for it and also specified that they would only use it for voting, nothing else.


This still amazes me. The DMV allowed to tell what crap.

Seriously. The cojones on Walker..
 
2012-07-18 02:53:11 AM  

Silly Jesus: Countries such as Belgium, Spain, Greece, Italy, Malta and Mexico require a photo ID to vote, just to name a few. This is normal in much of the Western, and even non-Western world. Yet, here, it's OMG RACISMS.


And thus, the governments pay for them all. Why do you want to pay for everyone's ID?
 
2012-07-18 04:03:25 AM  
Voter ID laws are a part of a larger voter suppression strategy employed by the anti-democratic GOP.

Between suppressing student votes by making student ID cards invalid ID, caging poor and minority voters, ensuring NRA members can use their cards to vote and now, voter ID laws pushed by ALEC the GOP have shown themselves to be partisan beyond contempt.

Really can't emphasize that part too much here.

As to the whole "right or not a right" thing this thread seems to have fixated on?

Voting *is* a right.

And a responsibility.

It's serious business.
 
2012-07-18 04:22:26 AM  

Tor_Eckman: Fista-Phobia: Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the current laws require proof of residency? You signed for the acceptance of a ballot with a serial # at the top of it that was then entered into a field next to your signature. A utility bill, bank statement, or any article of proof of residency was permissible. They know what vote you picked. Now the adversary can attempt to deny more citizens their vote because "how do we REALLY know that's where you live"?

Precisely. This is why actual voter fraud of the type that these ID laws are allegedly designed to prevent is virtually non-existent. Anyone that was determined to attempt it could just get a fake ID anyway. It's not like they are hard to get. But there is very little to gain, and lots to lose if you were to get caught. It's a non-issue.

If there was any evidence that this type of voter fraud was rampant, I would probably be ok with these ID laws. But there is no such evidence.


Bingo.

You'd have to get hundreds, if not thousands, of people to vote fraudulently for it to have any effect. And the more people involved, the higher the odds of getting caught are. On the other hand, having an election official tamper with the vote count minimizes the risk AND maximizes the reward.

Anyone who is A: inclined to cheat and B: has more than two brain cells to rub together is going to choose the latter.
 
2012-07-18 05:15:16 AM  

Old enough to know better: martissimo: Alphax: consider this: How many people don't have a photo ID? This shiat is so much about nothing.

Millions of Americans.

My mom for one, moved and can't get a drivers license in NV without a social security card, can't get a social security card without a DL. Catch 22

/she has a expired DL from years ago that is no help

Having similar troubles. Like a fool I let mine expire more than five years ago, and since I've never rented or bought a house, or gotten a power bill in my name I'm having a tough time scrounging up enough proof that I'm a WA resident to get it updated. Ordered a copy of my birth certificate and am gonna try a third attempt to get it tomorrow.


I went through this a couple of years ago, since I just have a "walking license" (state ID, not a driver's) that only needs to be renewed every 10 years. Let it slip and it was a huge hassle.

I also don't receive any paper bills in my name and don't own or lease, plus my passport had also expired and SS card was long gone (my mother lost it when i was a teenager.) It turns out that there's a little-known clause that the SS office will accept life insurance paperwork as part of your proof of ID, and that was the only way I was able to make up the missing points. It's worth a try at the DMV.

My local DMV felt sorry for me and took my library card as part of the ID. Heh.
 
2012-07-18 06:05:54 AM  
"substantial impairment of the right to vote"

That's exactly right. There is no way that I'd be able to vote in Wisconsin if I had to produce a Wisconsin id.
 
2012-07-18 06:59:04 AM  

Noam Chimpsky: "substantial impairment of the right to vote"

That's exactly right. There is no way that I'd be able to vote in Wisconsin if I had to produce a Wisconsin id.


Considering that these bullshiat laws often coincide with moving DMV offices around to make it harder for poor people (who tend to vote Democratic because the official Republican policy is 'The poor can eat shiat') to get to the DMV? Yeah, it's a substantial impairment.
 
2012-07-18 07:06:01 AM  

Old enough to know better: martissimo: Alphax: consider this: How many people don't have a photo ID? This shiat is so much about nothing.

Millions of Americans.

My mom for one, moved and can't get a drivers license in NV without a social security card, can't get a social security card without a DL. Catch 22

/she has a expired DL from years ago that is no help

Having similar troubles. Like a fool I let mine expire more than five years ago, and since I've never rented or bought a house, or gotten a power bill in my name I'm having a tough time scrounging up enough proof that I'm a WA resident to get it updated. Ordered a copy of my birth certificate and am gonna try a third attempt to get it tomorrow.


Had similar troubles in Ohio. Ended up unemployed for almost 5 years due to a physical disability, ended up having to move in with family. Took 3 years to fight the Social Security Administration to prove that yes, I really was disabled so I had no income at all. In that time my driver's license expired, couldn't afford to get a certified copy of my birth certificate, and couldn't afford to renew my driver's license. When it came time to vote, my only recourse was a utility bill or government document with my name and address on it. Since I had no utilities in my name, I didn't have a bill, and the local elections officials determined that letters with my name and address from both the VA and the Social Security Administration didn't qualify as government documents. So I didn't get to vote in one election.

I got smart the second time, though. I requested and absentee ballot, and all I had to do was sign the form stating that I was eligible to vote, so I was able to vote absentee, just not in person.

Such bullshiat.
 
2012-07-18 07:08:45 AM  
Good. None of these assholes hollering for these laws can point out any widespread voter fraud and unless the state is planning on issuing free IDs to any citizen, assist any citizen in obtaining the needed paper work free of charge, and help the elderly and poor get to the locations to obtain the ID, all these laws just smack of an attempt to disenfranchise large groups of people (who just happen to vote Democratic in general).
 
2012-07-18 08:02:20 AM  

Fista-Phobia: Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the current laws require proof of residency? You signed for the acceptance of a ballot with a serial # at the top of it that was then entered into a field next to your signature. A utility bill, bank statement, or any article of proof of residency was permissible. They know what vote you picked. Now the adversary can attempt to deny more citizens their vote because "how do we REALLY know that's where you live"?


The first time you register, sure. The proposed bill, however, means you show ID every time.

It was freaky enough before the recall that some group sent a notice to my building that showed about two-thirds of the people here and if they'd vote in the past two cycles.
 
2012-07-18 08:06:16 AM  

MikeMc: Silly Jesus: Countries such as Belgium, Spain, Greece, Italy, Malta and Mexico require a photo ID to vote,

ProTip: Wisconsin is in the United States of America not Belgium, Spain, Greece, Italy, Malta or Mexico.

[againstlineofdance.files.wordpress.com image 325x214]


I believe he wants us to be more like Greece and Mexico; true bastions of freedom and justice. Not a bit of corruption either.
 
2012-07-18 08:17:09 AM  

sigdiamond2000: Not having photo ID isn't shorthand for "being brown" or "being a Democrat". It's usually shorthand for beIng poor and uneducated.


www.pewsocialtrends.org

www.project.org

i563.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-18 09:01:09 AM  

Silly Jesus: A poll tax...really? Because you need a birth certificate for the ID? Is my gas to get me to the voting booth a Poll Tax as well? What about the bus fare?


Not_sure_if_serious.jpg

Incase you are, can you show me the law that requires payment of gas and/or bus fare to vote? Or are you merely suggesting there should be such a tax?
 
2012-07-18 09:01:25 AM  
All you need to know about voter ID/poll tax laws is that if it didn't disenfranchise people republicans would not be taking it up as an issue.
 
2012-07-18 09:19:33 AM  

digistil: Silly Jesus: A poll tax...really? Because you need a birth certificate for the ID? Is my gas to get me to the voting booth a Poll Tax as well? What about the bus fare?

Not_sure_if_serious.jpg

Incase you are, can you show me the law that requires payment of gas and/or bus fare to vote? Or are you merely suggesting there should be such a tax?


I actually think free public transportation on election day is the way we should be heading, not finding ways to have less people vote. So, good idea!
 
2012-07-18 09:24:46 AM  
If Silly Jesus and cameron want to really read a concise and valid assessment of "voter fraud" laws, look no further:

Brennan Center Policy Brief.

For those who cannot take the time: There is no need for voter ID laws.
 
Bf+
2012-07-18 09:28:59 AM  

Sid_6.7: cameroncrazy1984: Woohoo! Since it was likely written by ALEC, I'm sure that it'll be struck down in about 16 other states soon.

FTFA:

Dane County Circuit Judge David Flanagan wrote Tuesday that the state's requirement that all voters show photo ID at the polls creates a "substantial impairment of the right to vote" guaranteed by the state constitution.

Depending on what the state's constitution reads like, and what the judge's decision is based on, it may or may not be applicable to the law in other states.




This.
Wisconsin constitution is pretty damn clear on the issue. Even partisans would have trouble defending VoterID laws against the Wisconsin constitutions. Other states... not so much.
What does help is the frequency of these getting shut down, the lack of evidence, and judges (and others) getting pissed off that this bullshiat keeps getting brought up.
 
2012-07-18 09:34:09 AM  

Aldon: I actually think free public transportation on election day is the way we should be heading, not finding ways to have less people vote. So, good idea!


I like moving elections to Sunday, as well... Tuesday is a relic of our agricultural past and makes no sense in the modern world where most people are working on Tuesdays.
 
Bf+
2012-07-18 09:35:13 AM  

jrw8778: There is no need for voter ID laws.


Not according to GOP Senator Mike Turzai: "Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania -- Done!"
Romney needs voter disenfranchisement.
 
2012-07-18 09:42:31 AM  

consider this: How many people don't have a photo ID? This shiat is so much about nothing.


Illegal immigrants.
 
2012-07-18 09:47:09 AM  

dickfreckle: Silly Jesus: [clarityinfusion.com image 605x328]

LULZ

That's what we've come to? Comparing a financial contract vote to one cast for who represents you in government?

Apples and oranges being sold in the same section of the store doesn't make them the same thing. Man, you are one of the nastiest trolls I've seen. This week.


Nah, the picture was tongue in cheek. I just thought it was amusing considering most of the people voting in those union elections with their ID's are probably the same ones raising a stink about having an ID to vote. Things don't have to be exactly the same to be humorous.
 
2012-07-18 09:57:45 AM  

TIKIMAN87: consider this: How many people don't have a photo ID? This shiat is so much about nothing.

Illegal immigrants.


How many illegal immigrants risk deportation to vote?
 
2012-07-18 09:59:08 AM  

quatchi: Voter ID laws are a part of a larger voter suppression strategy employed by the anti-democratic GOP.

Between suppressing student votes by making student ID cards invalid ID, caging poor and minority voters, ensuring NRA members can use their cards to vote and now, voter ID laws pushed by ALEC the GOP have shown themselves to be partisan beyond contempt.

Really can't emphasize that part too much here.

As to the whole "right or not a right" thing this thread seems to have fixated on?

Voting *is* a right.

And a responsibility.

It's serious business.


How serious?

guidosblog.com
 
2012-07-18 10:43:11 AM  

Mercutio74: TIKIMAN87: consider this: How many people don't have a photo ID? This shiat is so much about nothing.

Illegal immigrants.

How many illegal immigrants risk deportation to vote?


How can they get deportated when they DON'T HAVE TO SHOW A F*UCKING ID?!
 
2012-07-18 11:10:07 AM  

TIKIMAN87: How can they get deportated when they DON'T HAVE TO SHOW A F*UCKING ID?!


Any interaction with the gov't is a deportation threat.
 
2012-07-18 11:19:10 AM  

Silly Jesus: Mrtraveler01: Silly Jesus: Perhaps we can stop this nonsense soon and get something that really matters...like a standard of knowledge / intellect for voting. I propose the U.S. Immigration Test (basic history / general government concepts) and an IQ test (you can't vote for Potato anyway).

This is the post of a farktard who's completely ignorant of history.

Do tell. Is there a certain group that you feel would be disenfranchised by knowledge / intellect tests?


Perhaps you should do some reading. The right to vote is not explicitly defined in the original constitution.
But is has been very clearly defined in subsequent amendments and constitutionally upheld legislation.

Voting is a right you moran. And although states are allowed to run their own elections, there are minimal standards they are expected to meet as defined by constitutional amendments.
 
2012-07-18 12:03:54 PM  
Link

From the report:

More than 1 million eligible voters in these states fall below the federal poverty line and live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office. These voters may be particularly affected by the significant costs of the documentation required to obtain a photo ID. Birth certificates can cost between $8 and $25. Marriage licenses, required for married women whose birth certificates include a maiden name, can cost between $8 and $20. By comparison, the notorious poll tax - outlawed during the civil rights era - cost $10.64 in current dollars.


YES...It Is A Poll Tax. A financial impediment to exercising the constitutional right to vote.
 
2012-07-18 12:43:01 PM  

Sid_6.7: cameroncrazy1984: Woohoo! Since it was likely written by ALEC, I'm sure that it'll be struck down in about 16 other states soon.

FTFA:

Dane County Circuit Judge David Flanagan wrote Tuesday that the state's requirement that all voters show photo ID at the polls creates a "substantial impairment of the right to vote" guaranteed by the state constitution.

Depending on what the state's constitution reads like, and what the judge's decision is based on, it may or may not be applicable to the law in other states.


The article reads like the judge based it on the Wisconsin constitution, which is bad and good. It's bad because it won't have any applicability outside Wisconsin. It's good, because if it's based on state law, in principle it can't be appealed to the federal courts, which are run by conservative activists pretending to be judges.
 
2012-07-18 12:51:58 PM  
Fluorescent Testicle: Solchie: Welfare is not something we pay into, like unemployment. The community is helping you out, if you are truely grateful for that assistance, paying back the community with a few hours of your time shouldn't be a problem at all.

Good Lord, you're serious.

You're seriously suggesting that poor people should be forced into servitude in return for food and shelter.

You're seriously suggesting slavery.

I... I can't even wrap my head around that one. I'll let somebody else take the wheel from here.


You have a strange understanding of the definition of the word "slavery". From Dictionary.com:

slav·er·y /ˈsleɪvəri, ˈsleɪvri/ Show Spelled[sley-vuh-ree, sleyv-ree] Show IPA
noun
1. the condition of a slave; bondage.
2. the keeping of slaves as a practice or institution.
3. a state of subjection like that of a slave: He was kept in slavery by drugs.
4. severe toil; drudgery.

I'm not suggesting anything like slavery at all. I'm suggesting a compromise (I know, I know, politics thread, what the hell am I thinking.) If you want ASSISTANCE from the community, which is what those programs are supposed to be, then you should be willing ASSIST your community with some of your time in return. No one would be making anyone do anything, and there are a slew of different activities that qualify as "Community Service". Help paint a classroom. Pull weeds on the grounds at a community center. Spend time with patients at the VA Hospital. Oh, look - CHOICES. Something that slavery doesn't offer.

The far left wants to provide for everyone, a community isn't functioning properly if it can't care for it's weakest, most deprived etc... the far right believes that everyone should be responsible for themselves, we need to stop giving free handouts, too many are taking advantage, etc.

Personally, I fall in the middle. We need those social programs. We as a community do need to be there to help members of our society who are struggling, but yes, there are people who abuse the system and take advantage. There needs to be a better check and balance system than we have right now, and having people who are being provided for by the community help repay that community for that assistance with a few hours of community service is not slavery. If you don't want to do the community service, then don't, but if you aren't willing to let the community know that you are grateful, you are willing to try to do your part, and you aren't just taking advantage, why should we help you? If you are taking advantage of welfare, WIC checks, food stamps, etc, you have a DUTY to the rest of us, who are assisting you in your time of need to show us that you will be grateful and responsible with the assistance we've providing.

But apparently you'd prefer we hand out free food and money to whoever has their hand out, including the women with Prada handbags and Jimmy Choo shoes who show up to the local WIC office saying things like "My baby don't have no milk, what are YOU gonna do about it?" Or the people we have all witnessed using the Quest cards to buy junk food and soda instead of healthy food for their children right?
 
2012-07-18 02:23:37 PM  

MikeMc: You know, we've been voting here in Wisconsin for over 150 years without photo I.D. and it's worked just fine. The GOP has yet to demonstrate that there have been enough fraudulent votes cast in Wisconsin over the last twenty years to swing a suburban school board race much less a statewide election. They just want to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to keep darker folk from voting.


How is providing free IDs keeping people frOm voting?
 
2012-07-18 02:57:13 PM  

jaybeezey: MikeMc: You know, we've been voting here in Wisconsin for over 150 years without photo I.D. and it's worked just fine. The GOP has yet to demonstrate that there have been enough fraudulent votes cast in Wisconsin over the last twenty years to swing a suburban school board race much less a statewide election. They just want to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to keep darker folk from voting.

How is providing free IDs keeping people frOm voting?


The underlying documents required to obtain that ID come with a cost. Obtaining that free ID isn't free at all.
And in Urban areas across the state of WI, the GoP legislature disingenuously closed hundreds of urban offices where that free ID can be obtained,
once one has the requisite underlying documents.

This is voter suppression, not vote protection.
 
2012-07-18 06:43:38 PM  

X-boxershorts: jaybeezey: MikeMc: You know, we've been voting here in Wisconsin for over 150 years without photo I.D. and it's worked just fine. The GOP has yet to demonstrate that there have been enough fraudulent votes cast in Wisconsin over the last twenty years to swing a suburban school board race much less a statewide election. They just want to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to keep darker folk from voting.

How is providing free IDs keeping people frOm voting?

The underlying documents required to obtain that ID come with a cost. Obtaining that free ID isn't free at all.
And in Urban areas across the state of WI, the GoP legislature disingenuously closed hundreds of urban offices where that free ID can be obtained,
once one has the requisite underlying documents.

This is voter suppression, not vote protection.


Right. Normally you must have a birth certificate to get an ID, and many blacks who grew up in the South during Jim Crow never got one in the first place.

Same sh*t, different century.
 
2012-07-18 07:20:24 PM  

Silly Jesus:

Please explain why several amendments were needed to give people rights that they already had.


"People" already had those rights. Unfortunately for most of this country's history, only white "christian" males were considered "people". There are still some who want to return to that disgusting social paradigm.

The amendments were for everyone else.
 
2012-07-18 09:35:02 PM  

RyogaM: cameroncrazy1984: Silly Jesus: cameroncrazy1984: Silly Jesus: Read the other quote...the state legislature decides who is qualified to vote. Only those qualified to vote are guaranteed the "right." The state could vote that you must score X on an IQ test to vote, and they wouldn't be taking away some "right."

Except for the fact that, you know, the SCOTUS has also decided that a test is illegal and takes away the right to vote. Oops.

Literacy tests and IQ tests are different. Also, there are IQ tests available for illiterate folks.

Too bad the ruling didn't say just literacy tests. Again, oops.

A literacy test would be legal, however, if voting was only a privilege. Which it is not, which is why it is a Right. Let's see if Silly Jesus notices.


Literacy tests are legal. There are specific applications of them that are not. They got a really bad name because they were used as a tool of discrimination in the past- testers would hold blacks to impossible standards, but would let whites, who would otherwise have failed miserably, pass. And the clauses that exempted certain classes (the grandfather clause, though there were others) were problematic too.

There really is no legal reason a test, fairly administered and designed, could not be required prior to voting. The constitution only prohibits poll taxes, though since poll taxes and literacy tests were pretty closely linked in the Jim Crow south, a lot of people (apparently including you) mistakenly think both are constitutionally prohibited.

Personally, I favor a small test.
Q1: Name two of your three representatives in Congress (DC residents are allowed to tell the examiner to fark themselves).
Q2: Name your Governor.
Q3: Name the Vice President.
Q4: Name an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court.

Get three out of four right, you can vote.


If I really had my druthers, I'd make everybody pass the US Citizenship Test, but that's never gonna happen. 90% of native citizens fail it.
 
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