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(ABC)   A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent, and totally not gay   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 320
    More: Followup, Eagle Scout, acceptance of responsibility, special committee, General Services Administration, discriminations, youth organizations, Boy Scouts of America  
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7505 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2012 at 11:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-18 10:58:59 AM

Joe Blowme: Oh, so some are more equal than others. Welcome to the farm.


If you really have to explain to a grown adult in 2012 why there is a difference between a Black History Month and a White History Month, you really just have to give up on humanity.

This sort of just abject cluelessness is amazing to witness in modern times.
 
2012-07-18 11:03:52 AM

Confabulat: Joe Blowme: So you are also against the NAACP, Congressional Black Caucus, HIspanic Caucus, Ladies night, women only gyms, sex segregated restrooms, ect...? If you are then at least you are consistent and i cant fault that.

Ah, the age-old argument for "WHY CAN'T WE JUST HAVE THINGS FOR STRAIGHT CHRISTIAN WHITE GUYS WITHOUT PEOPLE THINKING WE ARE LIKE RACISTS OR SOMETHING?" after basically turning society into that for centuries but pretending that's all over now, and WHAA it was better then anyway, am I right?

There's a reason smart and decent people mock your sort. You'll never understand it. I bet you will whine about it though.


Hypocrisy, this is how it works.
 
2012-07-18 11:05:58 AM

Confabulat: awshat: . And, it's only been in this last generation that teenage sexuality is no longer taboo, that it's out in the open, that everybody does it, and it's all ok!

This is the dumbest thing I'll ever read today.

When I was a teen about 30 years ago, teen sex was ALL my elders wanted to talk about. Teen sex was the hottest topic of the day. Teen sex was ALL I heard about.

Oh, and maybe you should watch some movies from the 1970s, 40 years ago. There's a hell of a lot more open and free teen sex in those movies that are today's kids' GRANDPARENTS' era than you'll see in a multiplex today.

If anything, teen sex is a lot more sane in modern culture than it was back in my day.



I apologize - I keep forgetting how very old I am - after all it was 1968 when I joined the Scouts, and it was that first generation of boomers that became adults during the love/peace/dope hippie era that were so into attacking the conservative culture. "Leave it to Beaver" and "My Three Sons" made way for "All In The Family" and "M*A*S*H". And, you're right - I misspoke - it wasn't this generation (as defined by the old 40 year model), it was mine.
 
2012-07-18 11:07:23 AM

Confabulat: Joe Blowme: Oh, so some are more equal than others. Welcome to the farm.

If you really have to explain to a grown adult in 2012 why there is a difference between a Black History Month and a White History Month, you really just have to give up on humanity.

This sort of just abject cluelessness is amazing to witness in modern times.


Are you having a conversation with yourself? I recall you were the one bringing up history months in trying to defend your obvious hipocrisy defending your brand of racism. I thought we were talking about gays in the BSA.
 
2012-07-18 11:08:51 AM

Joe Blowme: Hypocrisy, this is how it works.


No, you just have no clue about what you are talking about. You are a fossilized bigot and cannot understand why groups like the NAACP should exist and be respected when you can't join the KKK and tell your friends.

Admit it. You don't understand the difference. You can't figure it out. You're clueless.
 
2012-07-18 11:09:55 AM

Joe Blowme: I thought we were talking about gays in the BSA.


Sure let's talk about it. I'm sure you think there should be a gay Boy Scouts, if that's what the gays want, and you can't understand why you are so goddamned stupid for thinking this.

You honestly aren't that smart.
 
2012-07-18 11:10:46 AM

zymosan: Don't like their policy's? Start your own club. May I suggest "Science Scouts" or "Survival Scouts" something more inclusive. Private, religion based club, fark um, start your own.


Junior Preppers, FTW.
 
2012-07-18 11:17:14 AM

sprag: My wife is a Girl Scout leader and she was talking to one of the parents who was a boy scout (I don't know if he made eagle scout or not) and he made an observation:

When the girls were doing an introduction to sailing at a local camp the counselors gave them a life jacket and a 5 minute lecture on what to expect and set them loose on the lake. He was shocked how the GS let the girls discover/learn how things worked rather than forcing them to go through an endless series of classes and only entrusting them to actual water after they earned a badge. He noted that the BS are more about excluding others who haven't earned their badges rather than learning as a team...

/not really a csb, but kind of interesting.


He probably does not remember the boy scout rules correctly. To take a sailboat out at my son's scout camp you need the 5-10 minute safety lecture. To get the sailing merit badge it takes about 3 hours of instruction, but you do not need the merit badge to go sailing. Same with archery, rifles, shotgun, high ropes course, etc. To use them requires the safety lecture not the merit badge. However during certain periods scouts working on the merit badge go to the head of the line if there is a wait.
 
2012-07-18 11:25:10 AM

Confabulat: Joe Blowme: I thought we were talking about gays in the BSA.

Sure let's talk about it. I'm sure you think there should be a gay Boy Scouts, if that's what the gays want, and you can't understand why you are so goddamned stupid for thinking this.

You honestly aren't that smart.



Stop poking the doofus.
 
2012-07-18 11:31:06 AM

Bungles: Confabulat: Joe Blowme: I thought we were talking about gays in the BSA.

Sure let's talk about it. I'm sure you think there should be a gay Boy Scouts, if that's what the gays want, and you can't understand why you are so goddamned stupid for thinking this.

You honestly aren't that smart.


Stop poking the doofus.


Doofus was a Junior Woodchuck not a Boy Scout.
 
2012-07-18 11:31:37 AM

Confabulat: Joe Blowme: Hypocrisy, this is how it works.

No, you just have no clue about what you are talking about. You are a fossilized bigot and cannot understand why groups like the NAACP should exist and be respected when you can't join the KKK and tell your friends.

Admit it. You don't understand the difference. You can't figure it out. You're clueless.


like i said, some are more equal than others in your world. So much for judging people by content of character and not color of skin.

/u sound mad bro and your racism is showing.
 
2012-07-18 11:40:16 AM
BSA is a private organization. The Supremes ruled that private organizations can decide who can join them.

Get over it.

Move on.
 
2012-07-18 11:49:04 AM
Thinking back, it seems like the boyscouts were really just an excuse for dads to go camping while having their sons do all the work.
 
2012-07-18 11:53:29 AM
As a former scout leader, when I had boys age 10-12 I had to be careful because they were fully aware of girls and somewhat of sex. (it really varied a lot from boy to boy.) So, at this age, would it be a good idea to have them camp with girls? Would it be possible for some to experiment or play doctor? It just wouldn't be a good idea. So how would having gays in the same camp be much different? You don't think that there would be some playing around? To me it isn't an anti gay thing it is a practical thing. I know this doesn't answer the question of how do we allow gays to experience the joys of scouting but it is a separate thing. Having a troop of nothing but gays does not sound good either. Kids at that age are going to experiment and explore.
 
2012-07-18 12:01:42 PM

Confabulat: Joe Blowme: I thought we were talking about gays in the BSA.

Sure let's talk about it. I'm sure you think there should be a gay Boy Scouts, if that's what the gays want, and you can't understand why you are so goddamned stupid for thinking this.

You honestly aren't that smart.


First, the disclaimers: I took my son out of BSA after three years, because too many of the leaders seemed to be creepy, cultish home-schoolers I didn't want around my kid. I realized after reading their materials they are a conservative Christian organization, and I defend their right to maintain their dogma, just without my participation and support. SCOTUS seems to concur.

I'm replying to this post, however, to express my dismay with people of otherwise-goodwill, like Confabulat, who I'm sure consider themselves paragons of tolerance, and then resort to playground-bully tactics against anyone whose opinion differs from their own. This seems to be particularly prevalant lately in the GLBT community and their supporters, the latter of which I am one.

When one repeatedly presumes to know that another person they've never met "(doesn't) understand," or is "Goddamn stupid, " one engages in the same sort of bigotry and oppression which we all seek to end. This same sort of tolerance of all diversity, except that of opinion, evidenced itself in the attacks on Brad Pitt's mother by Perez Hilton and others.

One has to ask one's self, which is worse; the private religious organization which excludes those who don't share its beliefs, or the individual who launches a vitriolic verbal attack on another who doesn't share his or her political opinions?

I know, welcome to Fark.
 
2012-07-18 12:03:05 PM
Confabulat Smartest
Funniest
2012-07-18 10:58:59 AM


Joe Blowme: Oh, so some are more equal than others. Welcome to the farm.

If you really have to explain to a grown adult in 2012 why there is a difference between a Black History Month and a White History Month, you really just have to give up on humanity.

This sort of just abject cluelessness is amazing to witness in modern times.




Translation:
I don't have a good answer.
 
2012-07-18 12:03:21 PM
As a former Scout I am ashamed and want nothing further to do with the organization. They have destroyed a great opportunity for many young boys who only want to experience the wilderness, learn skills, and help their community by fulfilling their civic duty.
 
2012-07-18 12:06:16 PM

CallMeGomer: As a former scout leader, when I had boys age 10-12 I had to be careful because they were fully aware of girls and somewhat of sex. (it really varied a lot from boy to boy.) So, at this age, would it be a good idea to have them camp with girls? Would it be possible for some to experiment or play doctor? It just wouldn't be a good idea. So how would having gays in the same camp be much different? You don't think that there would be some playing around? To me it isn't an anti gay thing it is a practical thing. I know this doesn't answer the question of how do we allow gays to experience the joys of scouting but it is a separate thing. Having a troop of nothing but gays does not sound good either. Kids at that age are going to experiment and explore.


Probably the only place you'd have to worry is when you put 2 or more scouts in the same tent at nighttime. If there's orgies going on around the campfire or kids wandering off into the woods unsupervised, you've got other issues. (insert nostalgia about the girl who used to come on the trips whose dad thwarted my attempts to sneak off in the woods with her).

As far as tent buddies goes, you're probably OK putting a gay kid and a straight kid in the tent together. If the gay kid is pervy enough to rape his tent buddy, or if the straight kid is homophobic enough to cause problems, then obviously you need to not put those two together. But if they're both reasonably behaved human beings you should be fine. Putting the two gay kids in the same tent would be inadvisable, but let's say you hypothetically had an all gay troop, what's the worst that could happen? Give everybody his own tent?
 
2012-07-18 12:09:21 PM

mark12A: BSA is a private organization. The Supremes ruled that private organizations can decide who can join them.

Get over it.

Move on.


Their federal charter says they're not. If they were a private organization, they wouldn't exist. There's no way they would have made it through the competition in the early 1900s. Since they are federally chartered, they must follow federal, state and local law with regard to excluding people based on sexual orientation and religious views.

Or hey, maybe we should just revoke their charter and see how long they last as a private entity.
 
2012-07-18 12:21:19 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-18 12:24:36 PM

alywa: Scouts are a private organization. They never use community centers, public spaces, parks, etc, so your namby pamby laws about "oh lets hold hands and poop rainbows and sing KumByA" don't apply here.


So that's why most units meet in public schools, use state parks, and have a federal congressional charter?
 
2012-07-18 12:27:25 PM

serial_crusher: That's the way to do it. My troop started off like that, but by my last couple of years we got a bunch of new nanny-leaders who eliminated all the fun (aka marginally dangerous) stuff and turned the troop into a merit badge factory. Those kind of leaders are infinitely more of a threat than the gheys.


I've noticed the merit badge factory troops tend to be rather small, aren't particularly active, and are just lame to be around. But the troops that do take some chances end up being large, active, and are the ones that make Eagles.
 
2012-07-18 12:28:27 PM

rohar: mark12A: BSA is a private organization. The Supremes ruled that private organizations can decide who can join them.

Get over it.

Move on.

Their federal charter says they're not. If they were a private organization, they wouldn't exist. There's no way they would have made it through the competition in the early 1900s. Since they are federally chartered, they must follow federal, state and local law with regard to excluding people based on sexual orientation and religious views.

Or hey, maybe we should just revoke their charter and see how long they last as a private entity.

????
In 2000, the Supreme Court ruled in Boy Scouts of America v. Dale that Boy Scouts, and all private organizations, have the constitutionally protected right under the First Amendment of freedom of association to set membership standards
 
2012-07-18 12:29:32 PM

Confabulat: Aqua Buddha: Why would someone object to their 10 year old daughter camping overnight with a straight man, but have no problem with their 10 year old son camping overnight with a gay man?

I usually don't assume everyone is a pedophile, do you?


You don't have a daughter, do you?
 
2012-07-18 12:34:53 PM

thisiszombocom: i wonder when the first lawsuit for a gay boy/gay scout leader to join the girl scouts happens.


It won't.
 
2012-07-18 12:36:00 PM

SN1987a goes boom: The Unitarian Universalists got their religion medal discontinued from the scouts for supporting gays.


Time to add the Episcopalians to that list?
 
2012-07-18 12:36:49 PM

Baloo Uriza: alywa: Scouts are a private organization. They never use community centers, public spaces, parks, etc, so your namby pamby laws about "oh lets hold hands and poop rainbows and sing KumByA" don't apply here.

So that's why most units meet in public schools, use state parks, and have a federal congressional charter?


The relationship between Congress and the organization is largely a symbolic honorific giving the organization the aura of being "officially" sanctioned by the U.S. government. However, Congress does not oversee or supervise organizations with the charter (other than receiving a yearly financial statement). The granting of a charter does not include congressional oversight or funding
 
2012-07-18 12:37:54 PM

BroVinny: Danger Avoid Death: Is there a merit badge for trolling?

Getting on My Little Pony Killer's ignore list is it. Nothing in the world quite like it.


Never mind that guy's too dumb to speak himself...
 
2012-07-18 12:37:56 PM

thelordofcheese: As a former Scout I am ashamed and want nothing further to do with the organization. They have destroyed a great opportunity for many young boys who only want to experience the wilderness, learn skills, and help their community by fulfilling their civic duty.


Actually the national organization's homophobia does not effect the local units at all. They never ask anyone what their sexual orientation is and there really is not any way to tell them. The only way they find out is if someone makes a stink in the media. As I said above, it's don't ask, don't tell. Sure some of the local units are probably just as conservative and repressive as the Mormon led national organization but that is rare in my experience (actually I have never seen it around here). Find the right troop and religion will not even come up. Our troop is all about getting the kids away from the electronics, getting some exercise (at least one backpacking, canoeing and biking trip a year plus plenty of day hikes), learning skills and learning how to lead. Like most topics on Fark this is really just MUD (made up drama). But if it were not for the made up stuff we would not have any reason to call each other stupid so I guess it's all good.
 
2012-07-18 12:41:00 PM
we are protecting OUR kids from potential harm from homosexuals looking to hook up with young boys. if the Homosexuals want to have a scouting program start their own and have nambla sponsor it. Until we find the cause for homosexuality we will never find the cure this needs to be medicly studied and a cure found for these sad sick people.
 
2012-07-18 12:41:59 PM

Rreal: There's really only two kinds of folks with that knd of fashion sense. survivalist gays and facists.


National Parks Service. Not sure which column this puts Smokey Bear in.
 
2012-07-18 12:44:05 PM

clyph: timujin: Nah, it's a little too heavy handed and it would take a real moron to group that many logical fallacies in one comment unintentionally.

You've obviously never read Free Republic or Conservapedia.


How does that change what timujin said in the slightest?
 
2012-07-18 12:48:42 PM

Confabulat: awshat: . And, it's only been in this last generation that teenage sexuality is no longer taboo, that it's out in the open, that everybody does it, and it's all ok!

This is the dumbest thing I'll ever read today.

When I was a teen about 30 years ago, teen sex was ALL my elders wanted to talk about. Teen sex was the hottest topic of the day. Teen sex was ALL I heard about.

Oh, and maybe you should watch some movies from the 1970s, 40 years ago. There's a hell of a lot more open and free teen sex in those movies that are today's kids' GRANDPARENTS' era than you'll see in a multiplex today.

If anything, teen sex is a lot more sane in modern culture than it was back in my day.


"Purity Busch" just turned 50. She's an old friend of mine.

i.ytimg.com

ecx.images-amazon.com

And she still looks pretty good, and yeah, they are still real.
 
2012-07-18 12:49:36 PM

Biness: Valiente: alywa: Suck it long and hard. Just don't go trying to gay up the Scouts.



Same-troll trolling?

Here in the Workers' Paradise, it's the Scouts and the Churches that harbour the greatest number of kiddie-fiddlers. I blame the insistence on short pants, knowing a lot of constrictor knots and woodcraft. Hard woodcraft.

2 years ago Jerry Sandusky would have been the model troop leader.


Why? Was there a badge in ass-patting?
 
2012-07-18 12:53:48 PM

Peepeye: A gay Boy Scout would probably keep his sexuality to himself. I just don't see it being a big deal. But they are making it one.


Some of the things I learned about Mormon scout troops after I became an adult leader made me wonder how straight boys get along in those troops.

/Apparently, Mormon boys can't stay off each other
 
2012-07-18 01:00:40 PM

unatnaes: Ashamed to be an Eagle today


Don't be. Give it a few more weeks, the folks at National who are two or three generations removed from today's rank and file membership will die out and we can all move on.
 
2012-07-18 01:03:17 PM

zymosan: Don't like their policy's? Start your own club. May I suggest "Science Scouts" or "Survival Scouts" something more inclusive. Private, religion based club, fark um, start your own.


I would be amused if the US had more than one WOSM member.
 
2012-07-18 01:06:03 PM

SuwonROKs: How can you say Sandusky is straight but is attracted to boys? I'm not saying all gays are pedos but I don't understand how gays can see these pedos aren't gay.


Pedos are attracted to kids, not a specific gender. Most pedos identify as (and when they're not with kids, are) straight.
 
2012-07-18 01:06:11 PM
<img src="http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1139/3characters.jpg"> != <img src="http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4505/f9llkok2334.jpg">
No room for debate.
 
2012-07-18 01:07:18 PM
img594.imageshack.us != img820.imageshack.us
No room for debate.
 
2012-07-18 01:19:42 PM

Baloo Uriza: Peepeye: A gay Boy Scout would probably keep his sexuality to himself. I just don't see it being a big deal. But they are making it one.

Some of the things I learned about Mormon scout troops after I became an adult leader made me wonder how straight boys get along in those troops.

/Apparently, Mormon boys can't stay off each other


Well, living in Oklahoma, we don't have many Mormons. I don't think I want to know your experiences.
 
2012-07-18 01:33:16 PM

Stinkyy: If they want to distinguish themselves as homo so much, then the Boy Scouts would have to change their name to the "Let's put our dicks in shiat" scouts before anyone was satisfied. I'm pretty sure putting your dick in shiat is aberrant, but the libs love normalizing disgusting perverted behavior.


I've said it since I was a Scout: Orientation is a non-issue. If you're joining Scouts for the sex, well, then...
i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-07-18 01:35:22 PM

RidersOfLohan: geez looks like there are more Eagle Scouts than University of Phoenix MBAs


Or Fark attracts Eagle Scouts.
 
2012-07-18 01:36:33 PM

awshat: The fact that there's still a faction out there that stands up to morality should be applauded, not laughed at and condemned for being out of step with the times.


Discrimination is moral. Got it.
 
2012-07-18 01:42:55 PM

RocketRay: My parents pulled me from BSA when we got a new scoutmaster who was an alcoholic. Guy before him was no prize either, his son got multiple merit badges in Favoritism.


It's a shame you didn't shop around. Different troops run a bit differently. There's also the Lone Scout program for those who want to be involved with Scouting, just not necessarily the locally available troops' baggage.
 
2012-07-18 01:47:30 PM

Peepeye: Baloo Uriza: Peepeye: A gay Boy Scout would probably keep his sexuality to himself. I just don't see it being a big deal. But they are making it one.

Some of the things I learned about Mormon scout troops after I became an adult leader made me wonder how straight boys get along in those troops.

/Apparently, Mormon boys can't stay off each other

Well, living in Oklahoma, we don't have many Mormons. I don't think I want to know your experiences.


I grew up in Oregon and lived there until I was 28, but then I got better and moved to Tulsa.
 
2012-07-18 01:50:44 PM

Baloo Uriza: RocketRay: My parents pulled me from BSA when we got a new scoutmaster who was an alcoholic. Guy before him was no prize either, his son got multiple merit badges in Favoritism.

It's a shame you didn't shop around. Different troops run a bit differently. There's also the Lone Scout program for those who want to be involved with Scouting, just not necessarily the locally available troops' baggage.


At the time we were living in a small town in the Sierra Nevadas. There was only one traffic light in the entire county, and we didn't have any choice of Boy Scout troops.
 
2012-07-18 02:01:53 PM
Sid_6.7
I think GWB was a terrible president, but that doesn't mean that I decided that the US was a terrible country incapable of doing good (and neither did I disagree with everything Bush did). In a similar vein, I find it disgraceful that the BSA continues to take this stance, but at the same time, I know for a fact that there is value to be had in Scouting, and that it should not be wholly condemned for the myopic views of a few people at the top.

As an Eagle Scout, I read the latest announcement with dismay. Yes, scouting does some good. I know that well. However, the BSA has shown itself to be an openly bigoted organization. The values of the leadership can't help but get passed down to those in the organization. I cannot in good conscience support a bigoted organization. I also cannot recommend that others do so or enroll their children in such an organization. There are other options out there for kids.

The BSA is reprehensible. Don't support them until they change their policy.

Nowhere in the Boy Scout Law do I find the word Bigoted.
 
2012-07-18 02:26:52 PM

ReapTheChaos: AbbeySomeone: The majority of child molesters are straight, middle class married men with religious and community ties.

That sums it up right there.


The only problem is that it's total bullcrap.

First, I need to say, I disagree with the BSA on this issue, and I won't allow my son or daughter join these organizations for multiple issues I have with them.

Second, I think Abbey's statement is crap because it's an intellectual fraud, some would say it's "Fallacy of Composition".. but I digress.

Let me rebut: The reason "majority of child molesters are straight, middle class married men with religious and community tie" is because most of this category is composed of this. If it were a 50-50 gay mix, then you might have something there, but it's massively not. The "norm" is a married man, religious, and with a community tie. I think a better way of phrasing your anger would be... "Straight men suck, but I don't have an argument that can LOGICALLY back that up."
 
2012-07-18 02:29:34 PM

CallMeGomer: As a former scout leader, when I had boys age 10-12 I had to be careful because they were fully aware of girls and somewhat of sex. (it really varied a lot from boy to boy.) So, at this age, would it be a good idea to have them camp with girls? Would it be possible for some to experiment or play doctor? It just wouldn't be a good idea. So how would having gays in the same camp be much different? You don't think that there would be some playing around? To me it isn't an anti gay thing it is a practical thing. I know this doesn't answer the question of how do we allow gays to experience the joys of scouting but it is a separate thing. Having a troop of nothing but gays does not sound good either. Kids at that age are going to experiment and explore.


Then you should be able to demonstrate that undesirable consequences result from the absence of such a prohibition in the British's "The Scout Association", a direct analogue of the Boy Scouts of America. Please do so.
 
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