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(City Journal)   The latest institution that has gone full Paterno is the California Teachers Association   (city-journal.org) divider line 84
    More: Sick, California Teachers Association, Joe Paterno, Teachers Association, Los Angeles Unified School District, Santa Barbara, Congressional Progressive Caucus, average cost, administrative law judge  
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10214 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2012 at 10:46 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-17 07:55:29 AM  
In before the "b-b-b-b-b-but priests".
 
2012-07-17 09:35:48 AM  
From the linked article, it seems they removed the guy from the classroom the very day they were notified by police.

The district now needs to go through a process which will actually terminate his employment.

Why are we outraged again?

In Subby's world, any time a teacher is accused of anything, he/she gets fired immediately, whether or not an investigation reveals any evidence of wrongdoing. No thanks.
 
2012-07-17 10:20:53 AM  

larrycot: From the linked article, it seems they removed the guy from the classroom the very day they were notified by police.

The district now needs to go through a process which will actually terminate his employment.

Why are we outraged again?


Here's why.

And here's why.

"Nadine Martinez Rodriguez, a former student of Berndt's, spoke to CBS2 about how school officials didn't listen when she complained about him. Rodriguez remembers that he often kept his hands in his lap and and a jar of vaseline in his desk. "When I first saw the news about Mr. Berndt getting arrested, I thought 'Wow,' " she said to CBS2. "It just took 22 years for him to get caught."

Basically, the LA school district, the teachers union, the DA's office and the sheriff's department spent a good couple of decades looking the other way when this guy was being a sick fark right there in the classroom.
 
2012-07-17 10:50:28 AM  
Oh Snap.
 
2012-07-17 10:55:33 AM  
So don't keep a jar of Vasaline on your desk?
 
2012-07-17 10:55:49 AM  
I am *so* glad I was young enough no one tried to force feed me cod liver oil as a child. Especially with this sicko giving kids cock wither spoils.
 
2012-07-17 10:56:18 AM  

Gulper Eel: larrycot: From the linked article, it seems they removed the guy from the classroom the very day they were notified by police.

The district now needs to go through a process which will actually terminate his employment.

Why are we outraged again?

Here's why.

And here's why.

"Nadine Martinez Rodriguez, a former student of Berndt's, spoke to CBS2 about how school officials didn't listen when she complained about him. Rodriguez remembers that he often kept his hands in his lap and and a jar of vaseline in his desk. "When I first saw the news about Mr. Berndt getting arrested, I thought 'Wow,' " she said to CBS2. "It just took 22 years for him to get caught."

Basically, the LA school district, the teachers union, the DA's office and the sheriff's department spent a good couple of decades looking the other way when this guy was being a sick fark right there in the classroom.


What in the proposed bill would have prevented that?
 
2012-07-17 10:56:29 AM  

Gulper Eel: In before the "b-b-b-b-b-but priests".


NOBODY is excusing the RCC for ANYTHING. The fact that someone else did something horrible doesn't mean it's OK for YOU to do it. Two people can be bad.


Christ in a bucket. When people get in a position of power to conceal stuff, is screwing little kids the FIRST thing they go with?
 
2012-07-17 10:56:32 AM  
I don't get why this is so hard. The cover is always 10,000 times worse for PR then the crime.

If you turn the mutt over to the police first thing you're a hero. If you don't then you'll get lumped in with them.

I work for an ISP. If I discover one of the users sending or receiving child porn. I'm going first to the police. Second to my boss to explain why the police are coming.
 
2012-07-17 11:01:36 AM  

larrycot: From the linked article, it seems they removed the guy from the classroom the very day they were notified by police.

The district now needs to go through a process which will actually terminate his employment.

Why are we outraged again?

In Subby's world, any time a teacher is accused of anything, he/she gets fired immediately, whether or not an investigation reveals any evidence of wrongdoing. No thanks.


Not fired immediately, but something less than a 5 year process with $500,000 in legal bills.
 
2012-07-17 11:01:44 AM  
This guy will probably get off if he gets that one masturbating judge.
 
2012-07-17 11:05:21 AM  

emersonbiggins: This guy will probably get off if he gets that one masturbating judge.



Unlikely. That Judge was a Republican. Beside, he was removed from the bench and disbarred.
 
2012-07-17 11:09:47 AM  
Criminal Court: Yeah this guys guilty
School District: Hold on lets not jump to conclusions.
Criminal Court: No seriously, a jury just convicted him.
 
2012-07-17 11:13:25 AM  
"The high cost of firing teachers helps explain why the Los Angeles Unified School District simply paid Berndt a $40,000 severance rather than undertake the formal dismissal process, even though he's accused of the most despicable crimes against children. "


Surprise. Unions need to be toned down a little. Or a lot.
 
2012-07-17 11:15:55 AM  
Serioulsy, why are you people surprised that an orginization with strong political ties would be tempted to cover up the fact that they have employed a whack job? Seriously, if it hit the news at the wrong time, politicians will say "Look, the current part in charge has hired a PEDO! Burn him!

s1ugg0: I don't get why this is so hard. The cover is always 10,000 times worse for PR then the crime.

If you turn the mutt over to the police first thing you're a hero. If you don't then you'll get lumped in with them.


In any time frame, people are arrogant enough to belive that they are skilled/lucky enough to get away with anything they want. Why would they need to admit to something wrong? They're completly awesome, but can't help everyone. If someone slips through the cracks and harms someone else, then the whole world will go the heck in a handbasket becasue the current party in charge LOSES. The other side CANNOT WIN at ANY cost! If a few people have to suffer for the greater good, then thats Jesus's plan.

Pfft. Savages
 
2012-07-17 11:20:44 AM  

s1ugg0: I don't get why this is so hard. The cover is always 10,000 times worse for PR then the crime.

If you turn the mutt over to the police first thing you're a hero. If you don't then you'll get lumped in with them.

I work for an ISP. If I discover one of the users sending or receiving child porn. I'm going first to the police. Second to my boss to explain why the police are coming.


Then to a courtroom when your boss sues you for monitoring the network for particular types of traffic. As soon as you do that, they lose safe harbor protections and are liable for every bit of data traversing their network. By law they cannot show preference to one type of data or another or else they lose those protections. They have to meet all of the provisions, and your action would directly violate this requirement: "Data transmission occurs through an automated technical process without selection of the material by the service provider." Source: http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/DMCA_Safe_Harbors

So, enjoy losing everything you own.
 
2012-07-17 11:22:33 AM  

simrobert2001: Serioulsy, why are you people surprised that an orginization with strong political ties would be tempted to cover up the fact that they have employed a whack job?


Not an employee- a dues paying member. Without the union rules, the LAUSD would have removed and fired him long ago.
 
2012-07-17 11:23:48 AM  

s1ugg0: I work for an ISP. If I discover one of the users sending or receiving child porn. I'm going first to the police. Second to my boss to explain why the police are coming.

Don't ISPs have specific procedures to alert the police for that kind of thing?
 
2012-07-17 11:26:08 AM  

Wolfmanjames: simrobert2001: Serioulsy, why are you people surprised that an orginization with strong political ties would be tempted to cover up the fact that they have employed a whack job?

Not an employee- a dues paying member. Without the union rules, the LAUSD would have removed and fired him long ago.


Speaking of dues, I hear alot of teachers union presidents are taking a pay freeze to help their rank and file members in this tough economy.....instead of reducing the tribute a rank and file member has to contribute to the throne.
 
2012-07-17 11:28:26 AM  
The state assembly, however, is a stronghold for the California Teachers Association, which strongly opposes SB 1530.


Teachers unions. Supporting rape in every state.

/// teachers need paid more, amiright?
 
2012-07-17 11:29:50 AM  

Wolfmanjames: simrobert2001: Serioulsy, why are you people surprised that an orginization with strong political ties would be tempted to cover up the fact that they have employed a whack job?

Not an employee- a dues paying member. Without the union rules, the LAUSD would have removed and fired him long ago.


Isn't that still along the same logic? All i see is "OMG, we've been protecting the legal rights of a pedo at a school! No one must know, or we'll lose politcal friends!"
 
2012-07-17 11:32:18 AM  
If the local area law enforcement refused to act, then there is the real problem, imo. Arrest the guy, then the school district, I am sure could have terminated him upon conviction. They could have suspended him during trial.

No doubt, this is a farked up situation.
 
2012-07-17 11:32:41 AM  

fireclown: s1ugg0: I work for an ISP. If I discover one of the users sending or receiving child porn. I'm going first to the police. Second to my boss to explain why the police are coming.
Don't ISPs have specific procedures to alert the police for that kind of thing?


Not in the US. They're not allowed to bias traffic/traffic flow in any way, doing so violates DMCA safe harbor provisions.
 
2012-07-17 11:32:46 AM  

simrobert2001: Wolfmanjames: simrobert2001: Serioulsy, why are you people surprised that an orginization with strong political ties would be tempted to cover up the fact that they have employed a whack job?

Not an employee- a dues paying member. Without the union rules, the LAUSD would have removed and fired him long ago.

Isn't that still along the same logic? All i see is "OMG, we've been protecting the legal rights of a pedo at a school! No one must know, or we'll lose politcal friends!"


Actually it's more like- He's one of us. You ain't getting rid of him that easy!
 
2012-07-17 11:40:07 AM  

scubamage: s1ugg0: I don't get why this is so hard. The cover is always 10,000 times worse for PR then the crime.

If you turn the mutt over to the police first thing you're a hero. If you don't then you'll get lumped in with them.

I work for an ISP. If I discover one of the users sending or receiving child porn. I'm going first to the police. Second to my boss to explain why the police are coming.

Then to a courtroom when your boss sues you for monitoring the network for particular types of traffic. As soon as you do that, they lose safe harbor protections and are liable for every bit of data traversing their network. By law they cannot show preference to one type of data or another or else they lose those protections. They have to meet all of the provisions, and your action would directly violate this requirement: "Data transmission occurs through an automated technical process without selection of the material by the service provider." Source: http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/DMCA_Safe_Harbors

So, enjoy losing everything you own.


Indeed. I've worked for 3 ISPs (one small, 2 huge) and never, not even once, saw or tried to see the content of end user data traversing our network. Looking at that would be at best unethical, at worst illegal.

However if I'm repairing a computer that requires me to look at the data on it and I see something like that then the first thing I would do is call the police. Thankfully that's never happened.

\did get a call once from the FBI trying to get information on an IP that was used to send a ransom letter for a kidnapping.
\\had to testify in Federal court once about some security camera recordings I made of some material theft from a FTZ that ended up being organized crime related
 
2012-07-17 11:42:13 AM  

iaazathot: If the local area law enforcement refused to act, then there is the real problem, imo. Arrest the guy, then the school district, I am sure could have terminated him upon conviction. They could have suspended him during trial.

No doubt, this is a farked up situation.


He was suspended immediately and it looks like he was fired before being convicted as well.

People trying to use this to attack workers' rights are almost as sick as he is.
 
2012-07-17 11:51:43 AM  

Wendy's Chili: iaazathot: If the local area law enforcement refused to act, then there is the real problem, imo. Arrest the guy, then the school district, I am sure could have terminated him upon conviction. They could have suspended him during trial.

No doubt, this is a farked up situation.

He was suspended immediately and it looks like he was fired before being convicted as well.

People trying to use this to attack workers' rights are almost as sick as he is.


I think having a system in place that the best solution is to pay this guy $40k is pretty sick. And that's the best situation. He could've sued for much more. This is just an extreme example bringing a flawed system to light. And the unions are fighting for the flawed system and doing everything they can to fight any change regardless of how beneficial it can be.
 
2012-07-17 11:55:15 AM  

OnlyM3: The state assembly, however, is a stronghold for the California Teachers Association, which strongly opposes SB 1530.

Teachers unions. Supporting rape in every state.

/// teachers need paid more, amiright?


Yeah, let's blame all teachers for this. Hell, we should just burn them.

It never ceases to amaze me that there is such an effective propaganda machine against people who make such little money that convinces everyone that they are bahillionairea who get away with whatever they want.
 
2012-07-17 11:55:31 AM  

scubamage: Not in the US. They're not allowed to bias traffic/traffic flow in any way, doing so violates DMCA safe harbor provisions.


Thanks. But wouldn't they have to alert the po-lice, even if they are allowing the traffic to continue? I thought they took action against kiddy pron services all the time.
 
2012-07-17 12:01:01 PM  
FTFA The high cost of firing teachers helps explain why the Los Angeles Unified School District simply paid Berndt a $40,000 severance rather than undertake the formal dismissal process, even though he's accused of the most despicable crimes against children. .... Even in the event of a false claim, no teacher would lose his job simply by being accused.

First the author gets all outraged because a teacher wasn't fired as a result of being accused, and then he says the legislation he supports would prevent teachers being fired as a result of being accused.

So it appears that the legislation he wants would result in precisely the situation he doesn't. Right. That's very clear,
 
2012-07-17 12:03:16 PM  

larrycot: From the linked article, it seems they removed the guy from the classroom the very day they were notified by police.

The district now needs to go through a process which will actually terminate his employment.

Why are we outraged again?

In Subby's world, any time a teacher is accused of anything, he/she gets fired immediately, whether or not an investigation reveals any evidence of wrongdoing. No thanks.


It's amazing what you would learn if you actually read the article.

It mentions that this would have only pertained to teachers and sexual abuse and would have stream-lined the process but the Union had it killed.

Apparently, YOU, larrycot, think it's ok for a union to make the firing process so convoluted as to be damned near impossible to remove criminals and poor teachers.

The article goes on to mention trying to fire 7 teachers. 4 were actually fired, 3 received substantial settlements and one was re-instated.

Average length for each case to be concluded: 5 years
Average cost for each case: $500,000.

So, larrycot, nice to see you support pedophiles, criminals and lousy teachers in the classroom all in the name of union solidarity and 'due process'.

As the head of the NEA said at its 2004 nation convention: 'I will worry about the children when the children start paying union dues.'
 
2012-07-17 12:05:33 PM  

fireclown: scubamage: Not in the US. They're not allowed to bias traffic/traffic flow in any way, doing so violates DMCA safe harbor provisions.

Thanks. But wouldn't they have to alert the po-lice, even if they are allowing the traffic to continue? I thought they took action against kiddy pron services all the time.


Basically they can't do much of anything until someone asks them to. The whole idea of safe harbor provisions was to wash the ISPs' hands of any responsibility for what traverses the network, in exchange, they're flat out not allowed to know/care what is going over their network. Could you find out? Yeah. But it would cost your company safe harbor protection. About all an ISP can legally change is how traffic is routed/flows through a network. Anything else has to be initiated by another party (the police, a subpoena, etc).
 
2012-07-17 12:18:11 PM  

MadMattressMack: Wendy's Chili: iaazathot: If the local area law enforcement refused to act, then there is the real problem, imo. Arrest the guy, then the school district, I am sure could have terminated him upon conviction. They could have suspended him during trial.

No doubt, this is a farked up situation.

He was suspended immediately and it looks like he was fired before being convicted as well.

People trying to use this to attack workers' rights are almost as sick as he is.

I think having a system in place that the best solution is to pay this guy $40k is pretty sick. And that's the best situation. He could've sued for much more. This is just an extreme example bringing a flawed system to light. And the unions are fighting for the flawed system and doing everything they can to fight any change regardless of how beneficial it can be.


Just because it's what the school board did, that doesn't make it the "best solution". They paid him off to minimize embarrassment to themselves.
 
2012-07-17 12:19:21 PM  

fireclown: Gulper Eel: In before the "b-b-b-b-b-but priests".

NOBODY is excusing the RCC for ANYTHING. The fact that someone else did something horrible doesn't mean it's OK for YOU to do it. Two people can be bad.


Christ in a bucket. When people get in a position of power to conceal stuff, is screwing little kids the FIRST thing they go with?


Amen. When I get to be emperor, messing with kids is not even on the list of things I intend to do. Or on the back-up list.
 
2012-07-17 12:21:42 PM  
Speaking as a teacher, and a member of CTA, I don't get this at all. We prevent people with prior convictions from getting jobs in schools, and yet if they are convicted while on the job, they aren't summarily dismissed. I don't see why this would need to go through any committee, regardless of the make-up of that committee.

From personal experience, I know that once accusations are made, people can get pulled from the classroom immediately. They should be put on paid leave until things get sorted out, because children lie, and some children know that their lies can control the lives of adults.

Very often, people speak of "the union" as if it were some monolithic entity, but it really is us, the members. We are "the union." We need to make it clear to our representatives what it important to us, and one would hope that the protection of both the children and the standing of our profession would be high on the list.

For now, my recommendation for parents (once you've made sure your little snowflake isn't lying to fark over a teacher who wouldn't let them listen to their iPod in class, or who otherwise wounded their sense of preciousness) would be to skip the conversation with the principal or the teacher, and go directly to the police.
 
2012-07-17 12:22:07 PM  

douchebag/hater: It mentions that this would have only pertained to teachers and sexual abuse and would have stream-lined the process but the Union had it killed.


It doesn't look to me like the changes to the CPC are limited to sex abuse.
 
2012-07-17 12:35:49 PM  

TimonC346: OnlyM3: The state assembly, however, is a stronghold for the California Teachers Association, which strongly opposes SB 1530.

Teachers unions. Supporting rape in every state.

/// teachers need paid more, amiright?

Yeah, let's blame all teachers for this. Hell, we should just burn them.

It never ceases to amaze me that there is such an effective propaganda machine against people who make such little money that convinces everyone that they are bahillionairea who get away with whatever they want.


Fun fact: a teacher is different from a teacher's union. We are talking about the latter (which means we're talking about the teacher's UNION). Now go rage quietly in the corner while the adults with reading comprehension have a meaningful discussion.
 
2012-07-17 12:36:10 PM  
[quote[TimonC346


>>> OnlyM3: The state assembly, however, is a stronghold for the California Teachers Association, which
>>> strongly opposes SB 1530.
>>>
>>> Teachers unions. Supporting rape in every state.

>>> /// teachers need paid more, amiright?

Yeah, let's blame all teachers for this.

Want to provide the name of the teachers org that is publicly speaking out against this atrocious behavior? I'll wait here while you look it up. (Hint, there isn't one)

While you're out, feel free to post the list of teachers who have pulled their dues money (under the "Beck rights") over this. (Hint, there isn't even one techer)

No really .... I'll wait.................

*crickets*
 
2012-07-17 12:56:35 PM  

TimonC346: It never ceases to amaze me that there is such an effective propaganda machine against people who make such little money that convinces everyone that they are bahillionairea who get away with whatever they want.


Stop with the myth that teachers are paid little.

This is the pay scale for the Los Angeles School district. The range is $45-75k. That's not chump change. Fact of the matter is if an individual wants to be rich, then teaching is not the profession to get into...but you can still make a decent living doing it (with what amounts to more vacation time than most private sector jobs if you count Christmas Break, Spring Break and summer).
 
2012-07-17 01:04:58 PM  
Meh. Just the right-wing using a horrific and extreme case to spew more hatred for teachers and public schools. Nothing to see here, move along.
 
2012-07-17 01:12:13 PM  
Is there we hate on Unions? I was in the hate on cops thread earlier and need a change of pace.

Unions support rape and child molestation the same way cops murder people in their own homes.
 
2012-07-17 01:18:59 PM  

cc_rider: Meh. Just the right-wing using a horrific and extreme case to spew more hatred for teachers and public schools. Nothing to see here, move along.


Stupid right wing Democrats...
 
2012-07-17 01:23:23 PM  

cherryl taggart: Amen. When I get to be emperor, messing with kids is not even on the list of things I intend to do. Or on the back-up list.


I'm at LEAST going to have to do some heli-skiing and hire an army of kung-fu hookers.
 
2012-07-17 01:25:32 PM  

cc_rider: Meh. Just the right-wing using a horrific and extreme case to spew more hatred for teachers and public schools. Nothing to see here, move along.


Tell that to the victims asshat
 
2012-07-17 01:34:38 PM  

TimonC346: It never ceases to amaze me that there is such an effective propaganda machine against people who make such little money that


They have great pay and outstanding benefits, even for California. And even more so considering its only part time work.
 
2012-07-17 02:25:55 PM  
No one has mentioned that Larry Sand (the author of TFA) is an anti-union hack? Fark, I am disappoint.

Anyway, due-process rights are important for teachers, and unions are the only thing standing between due-process and the ability to fire without cause as soon as a teacher makes enough money that you want to put them out to pasture. Anyone with half a brain cell and/or any legal experience knows that age/wage discrimination suits are next-to-impossible to win, therefore the due-process rights afforded to teachers by their unions are one of the last things that makes the profession somewhat reasonable.

BTW...EDUCATORS should be in charge of education policy, not politicians & corporate influences. After all, they're the ones that actually know what they're doing.

Stuff like this is why unions are NECESSARY in the education profession. One false claim by a manipulative student could end someone's career for life if due-process protections are weakened. School administrators that DO THEIR JOB prevent situations such as these, and take all accusations seriously, following up with appropriate investigation and reporting...however they do NOT try these people in the court of public opinion, which is a career-killer regardless of their guilt or innocence.
 
2012-07-17 02:26:49 PM  

Great Odins Raven: TimonC346: It never ceases to amaze me that there is such an effective propaganda machine against people who make such little money that

They have great pay and outstanding benefits, even for California. And even more so considering its only part time work.


Part time work? Really? Please sign up to teach if it's so great. You probably wouldn't last a full year.
 
2012-07-17 02:47:44 PM  
Grrrowl. Where were these teachers when I was in school? That is farking HAWT. All of you prudes need to stop being so jealous and STFU. Let the kids have their fun for cripes sake.

/I came
 
2012-07-17 02:54:15 PM  

Joe Blowme: cc_rider: Meh. Just the right-wing using a horrific and extreme case to spew more hatred for teachers and public schools. Nothing to see here, move along.

Tell that to the victims asshat


Joe Blowme: cc_rider: Meh. Just the right-wing using a horrific and extreme case to spew more hatred for teachers and public schools. Nothing to see here, move along.

Tell that to the victims asshat


First of all, this guy was removed from the classroom and fired immediately as soon as the abuse allegations came to light. The earlier complaint did not involve any kind of abuse, so this wasn't a Penn State thing where everybody knew about sexual and covered it up. I absolutely agree a school must act immediately to protect students.

The point was, they are using the most shocking and horrific of abuse cases, and playing on emotion to try and justify taking away a person's pension without due process. Without even waiting to see if the person is charged, never mind convicted of the crime, and they used the worst example they could find.

Sometimes, people are falsely accused. remember the McMartin preschool trial? Link

Teacher cleared of molestation charges

Former Georgia Teacher Acquitted of Child Molestation Charges

This article has nothing to do with protecting children from sexual abuse. It's about wanting to take away what someone paid into for so many years, without due process. Asshat.
 
2012-07-17 03:32:36 PM  

cc_rider: This article has nothing to do with protecting children from sexual abuse. It's about wanting to take away what someone paid into for so many years, without due process.


This. The anti-union folks are painting this as "FOR THE CHILDREN!" when it's, in fact, to remove certain protections, such as due process, given to teachers and protected by their union.

We're so anxious, so very anxious, to begin mob rule. We cheer when we torture our own citizens. We cheer when we assassinate our own citizens in other countries. We cheer when we castigate folks accused of a crime, long before they're tried (and long, long before we discover their actual innocence.) Those who want you to conform are eager, nay, excited, at the prospect of exploiting fear to push their ability to punish you, to shame you, on whispers, rumors, or accusations, and damn the need for proof, process, or oversight.

It's disturbing.
 
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