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(ESPN)   Screw matching up against the 1992 Dream Team, USA Basketball had to rally to avoid being blown out by Brazil   (espn.go.com) divider line 122
    More: Fail, dream team, USA Basketball, LeBron James, USA, Anderson Varejao, U.S., Leandro Barbosa, FIBA World Championship  
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4112 clicks; posted to Sports » on 17 Jul 2012 at 12:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-17 11:48:25 AM
A) Brazil is better than everyone the '92 team faced.
B) Eh, they coasted a bit, but they locked it down when they needed to - LeBron was huge; they might've lost this game without him.
C) Now I see why Brazilian players play the way they do (play dirty all you can, then when the opponent does anything that seems aggressive, flop) - thanks, FIBA rules!
D) It's goddamn annoying when the strategy of everyone is "tacklefoul all breakaways to prevent exciting things from happening"
E) When the USA puts out the team that can actually play defense (Love and Melo are not on the floor), that defense is f*cking suffocating to the point that the refs start just calling BS fouls because the other team can't even get past half court with the ball.
F) WTF is with all the missed dunks? C'mon, guys, I know they're fouling you on most of your attempts, but you gotta hit the ones you get. Chandler, LeBron, and Westbrook all missed dunks in the game.
G) Like Chandler said, they saw some new things, adapted to them, and now they're going to be better. It's doubtful that they'll miss as many shots as they missed again. And it was great to see LeBron say "y'all f*ck the jumpers, we're taking it straight to these b*tches" both times the US made their runs.
 
2012-07-17 12:52:46 PM
Holy crap, did anybody else's browser flip out with that link?
 
2012-07-17 12:55:32 PM
I'm firmly entrenched in the "Dream Team would easily beat the 2012 squad" camp, but this comparison really holds no water. International teams have had 20 years of development since the Dream Team spent the summer wiping the floor with everyone, they're much more competitive now.
 
2012-07-17 12:59:31 PM
I know it won't happen, but god I hope that this team comes home with something other than gold.
 
2012-07-17 01:00:28 PM

fo_sho!: I know it won't happen, but god I hope that this team comes home with something other than gold.


Why?
 
2012-07-17 01:00:30 PM

IAmRight: E) When the USA puts out the team that can actually play defense (Love and Melo are not on the floor), that defense is f*cking suffocating to the point that the refs start just calling BS fouls because the other team can't even get past half court with the ball.


The US team had more steals than fouls. That's absurd. There were some BS fouls, but I don't think it was systematic. The game was close because of blown layups/dunks, bad 3pt shooting, and a lack of rebounding.

Also, the not-LeBrons shot 18-51. Why can't he make his teammates better?
 
2012-07-17 01:02:13 PM

IAmRight: A) Brazil is better than everyone the '92 team faced.
B) Eh, they coasted a bit, but they locked it down when they needed to - LeBron was huge; they might've lost this game without him.
C) Now I see why Brazilian players play the way they do (play dirty all you can, then when the opponent does anything that seems aggressive, flop) - thanks, FIBA rules!
D) It's goddamn annoying when the strategy of everyone is "tacklefoul all breakaways to prevent exciting things from happening"
E) When the USA puts out the team that can actually play defense (Love and Melo are not on the floor), that defense is f*cking suffocating to the point that the refs start just calling BS fouls because the other team can't even get past half court with the ball.
F) WTF is with all the missed dunks? C'mon, guys, I know they're fouling you on most of your attempts, but you gotta hit the ones you get. Chandler, LeBron, and Westbrook all missed dunks in the game.
G) Like Chandler said, they saw some new things, adapted to them, and now they're going to be better. It's doubtful that they'll miss as many shots as they missed again. And it was great to see LeBron say "y'all f*ck the jumpers, we're taking it straight to these b*tches" both times the US made their runs.


Shouldn't you be over in the Penn State thread?
 
2012-07-17 01:04:48 PM

you have pee hands: The US team had more steals than fouls. That's absurd. There were some BS fouls, but I don't think it was systematic.


Oh, it's not like they called many, but there have been points in the Brazil game and in the Dominican game where the US had stolen the ball on three consecutive possessions at halfcourt and on the fourth one, they were on their way to getting another when the refs blew the whistle. It's not systematic or anything, but there had been far more contact on other steals that wasn't called.

I'm not criticizing the refs, I'm complimenting the US defense that the refs have to start calling things fouls because if they didn't, the other teams might not score for entire quarters at a time.

you have pee hands: Why can't he make his teammates better?


Tough to make people better when you're not on the court? Also, the US had lots and lots of open looks, just couldn't hit their jumpers. But they seemed content to continue to shoot 'em until LeBron took over and just started killing Brazil's defense.
 
2012-07-17 01:05:44 PM

Krymson Tyde: Shouldn't you be over in the Penn State thread?


I don't need to argue with a bunch of obsessive lunatics every day. That was an okay diversion for one day, but other people just seem to love to pound that drum.
 
2012-07-17 01:07:03 PM

you have pee hands: Also, the not-LeBrons shot 18-51. Why can't he make his teammates better?


because he's selfish and doesn't have the winning gene like jordan or kobe?
 
2012-07-17 01:07:06 PM
It's really not a fair comparison - teams are better coached and the international teams have better talent than they did in 92. Given, the 92 Dream Team still would have handily beaten today's teams, but it wouldn't have been an ass whipping like what was handed out at the time.
 
2012-07-17 01:08:30 PM
There's a little minus there!
 
2012-07-17 01:08:40 PM
I get it, subby is saying that if the dream team can't conquer themselves they will never be able to beat other teams. Like Luke Skywalker or something. I think.
 
2012-07-17 01:09:02 PM

you have pee hands: The US team had more steals than fouls. That's absurd.


Word. I'm not expecting LeBron to be 2008 Kobe (because that guy could win an international game with the remainder of the team being made of fourth-graders), but that defense is rigoddamdiculous.
 
2012-07-17 01:09:21 PM
boo mod for changing the headline, boo I say
 
2012-07-17 01:16:21 PM
Although I do have to admit that I might have a different perception of the game since I started watching at the beginning of the second quarter. While I was watching, they kind of stomped Brazil, beating them 63-42 in 30 minutes.
 
2012-07-17 01:18:01 PM
Was there a prize for guess who would lead this thread off?

/then stand on his head in a bikini the rest of the way.....
 
2012-07-17 01:22:12 PM

cendojr: you have pee hands: The US team had more steals than fouls. That's absurd.

Word. I'm not expecting LeBron to be 2008 Kobe (because that guy could win an international game with the remainder of the team being made of fourth-graders), but that defense is rigoddamdiculous.


2008 Dwyane Wade was better. Kobe did hit some big shots at the end though.
 
2012-07-17 01:22:54 PM

A Fark Handle: you have pee hands: Also, the not-LeBrons shot 18-51. Why can't he make his teammates better?

because he's selfish and doesn't have the winning gene like jordan or kobe?


4/10
 
2012-07-17 01:29:45 PM
At least they'll probably do better than the 2004 squad.

Blown out by Puerto Rico is just embarrassing.
 
2012-07-17 01:43:40 PM
I enjoy that the 92 team played both NBA all-stars and Naismith hall of fame players but had "worse competition".

Brazil in 92 had Oscar Schmidt who is arguably the best non american player ever, and was the top scorer in the 92 olympics, as well as the 88 and 96 games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Schmidt

But of course they *must* have played shiat teams/players because..Kobe and LeBron!

Look the 92 team had 7% of the players currently enshrined in the Naismith hall of fame. Naismith isn't the "NBA" hall of fame so it includes the world's best players ever.......and nearly 10% of history's all time greats were on the same team. Let that sink in, that is only done in EA Sports titles under "Fantasy Teams".

The reason they killed everyone wasn't shiatty competition, it was because Daly threw a game against a bunch of college kids to prove that if they didn't play as a team they could, and would get beat. Watch a '92 game, there is little if any coaching going on. Once they learned to play as a team you had that team, playing as one. Where as this years team is having to put up big 4th quarters the 92' team was typically ahead by so much they could all sit the 4th quarter out and still not lose, they coasted the second half of all but the Croatian games (HoF Petrovic and All star Kukoc) but still wonby 30+ points.

Sorry the 92 team will never be duplicated
 
2012-07-17 01:50:24 PM

kevinatilusa: At least they'll probably do better than the 2004 squad.

Blown out by Puerto Rico is just embarrassing.


Looking back at that roster, holy sh*t that team was damn near designed to fail. Iverson and Marbury as the starting backcourt?

This is the starting five from that roster: Iverson, Tim Duncan, Marbury, Lamar Odom, Richard Jefferson. That's f*cking embarrassing.

This is the bench from that roster (thanks, Larry Brown, and your bias against young players): Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Shawn Marion, Carlos Boozer, Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Emeka Okafor.

I don't think the starters from that team would have beaten the reserves even then.
 
2012-07-17 01:54:01 PM
LeBron most likely thinking, "I'm gonna win one, two, three, four, five, six gold medals at 2012 games."
 
2012-07-17 01:57:31 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: they coasted the second half of all but the Croatian games (HoF Petrovic and All star Kukoc) but still wonby 30+ points.


Kukoc had never played in the NBA at that point and no one from the Croatian team had done anything against NBA competition. You don't think there's a difference in being good in your own country and being in a situation where you're like Varejao, Barbosa, Nene, and Splitter, where you've played against the USA team's players a couple dozen times in your career, have won NBA awards (Barbosa is a former Sixth Man, Varejao's been a 2nd-teamer all-defense, Nene's been near the league lead in blocked shots and was a first-team all-rookie guy)?

No one's saying the 1992 team wasn't dominant. But at least part of the reason for that dominance and why we're unlikely to see it again is the lack of developed talent around the world at that time.
 
2012-07-17 02:00:24 PM
www.csmonitor.com
 
2012-07-17 02:00:29 PM

IAmRight: kevinatilusa: At least they'll probably do better than the 2004 squad.

Blown out by Puerto Rico is just embarrassing.

Looking back at that roster, holy sh*t that team was damn near designed to fail. Iverson and Marbury as the starting backcourt?

This is the starting five from that roster: Iverson, Tim Duncan, Marbury, Lamar Odom, Richard Jefferson. That's f*cking embarrassing.

This is the bench from that roster (thanks, Larry Brown, and your bias against young players): Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Shawn Marion, Carlos Boozer, Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Emeka Okafor.

I don't think the starters from that team would have beaten the reserves even then.


They wouldn't have come close. Stephon Marbury is bad at basketball. Having him on the floor makes your team worse than not having him on the floor.

/Yes, he has skills, but being able to blow by 4 defenders to get yourself a really bad look at the basket doesn't help your team win.
//Yes, his assist numbers are actually shockingly high. He still sucks.
 
2012-07-17 02:05:51 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: Sorry the 92 team will never be duplicated


I agree with this point, but not with how you got there in that particular post. Naming a few international stars doesn't mean the Dream Team faced any legitimate competition. We had the 11 best players in that tournament. Schmidt, Petrovic, Kukoc (plus Sarunas Marciulonis, Arvydas Sabonis) were all fine players, but they didn't have a team around them to provide anything close to a serious challenge to the Dream Team.

It is undeniable that international basketball has gotten MUCH stronger in the last two decades.
 
2012-07-17 02:09:47 PM

IAmRight: DoBeDoBeDo: they coasted the second half of all but the Croatian games (HoF Petrovic and All star Kukoc) but still wonby 30+ points.

Kukoc had never played in the NBA at that point and no one from the Croatian team had done anything against NBA competition. You don't think there's a difference in being good in your own country and being in a situation where you're like Varejao, Barbosa, Nene, and Splitter, where you've played against the USA team's players a couple dozen times in your career, have won NBA awards (Barbosa is a former Sixth Man, Varejao's been a 2nd-teamer all-defense, Nene's been near the league lead in blocked shots and was a first-team all-rookie guy)?

No one's saying the 1992 team wasn't dominant. But at least part of the reason for that dominance and why we're unlikely to see it again is the lack of developed talent around the world at that time.


Croatia was just young, 6 of them either were or went on to have NBA careers. Petrovic to the HoF, Kukoc to championships. ALL of them had FIBA international play experience so they weren't just "good in their own countries" .

Kukoc at that point had played with Petrovic and Divac in international play. I wouldn't call that "undeveloped"

Also don't forget Dino Rada part of the 1990 NBA All rookie team
 
2012-07-17 02:15:21 PM

Yanks_RSJ: I'm firmly entrenched in the "Dream Team would easily beat the 2012 squad" camp, but this comparison really holds no water. International teams have had 20 years of development since the Dream Team spent the summer wiping the floor with everyone, they're much more competitive now.


It started to get embarrassing when the team were signing autographs during plays and then broke out some old Globetrotter routines.
 
2012-07-17 02:20:47 PM
Smell that kobe? thats the jock straps you will be carrying for the rest of your life.
 
2012-07-17 02:21:07 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: Croatia was just young, 6 of them either were or went on to have NBA careers.


Yes, most of which were "cup of coffee" NBA careers. A couple of guys played for a few years, but even Kukoc didn't do that much in the NBA.

And okay, Radja being part of the All-rookie team equals Nene. Barbosa seems as though he's going to exceed everything Kukoc did in the league (except amount of time spent on championship teams) and he's not much of an entity.

And international play was nowhere near NBA-level play then. Now that players and coaches actually get into the NBA from other countries, their skill levels have improved.
 
2012-07-17 02:22:38 PM

IAmRight:
And international play was nowhere near NBA-level play then. Now that players and coaches actually get into the NBA from other countries, their skill levels have improved.


Tell that to the Raptors.
 
2012-07-17 02:29:00 PM

poisonedpawn78: IAmRight:
And international play was nowhere near NBA-level play then. Now that players and coaches actually get into the NBA from other countries, their skill levels have improved.

Tell that to the Raptors.


cdn3.sbnation.com
"8th overall biatches!"

God, what were they thinking?
 
2012-07-17 02:33:53 PM

poisonedpawn78: Tell that to the Raptors.


I guess I could clarify to the Raptors that just because the level of play has elevated doesn't mean that all foreign players are great.
 
2012-07-17 02:34:57 PM

Flappyhead: poisonedpawn78: IAmRight:
And international play was nowhere near NBA-level play then. Now that players and coaches actually get into the NBA from other countries, their skill levels have improved.

Tell that to the Raptors.

[cdn3.sbnation.com image 410x274]
"8th overall biatches!"

God, what were they thinking?


Supposedly the Lithuanian dude they drafted last year is really good though. I heard someone say that if he was in this year's draft, he probably would have been the #2 pick.
 
2012-07-17 02:40:37 PM
If they would have just played team ball on offense instead of everyone trying to play one on five, it would have been much easier.
 
2012-07-17 02:40:57 PM

fo_sho!: I know it won't happen, but god I hope that this team comes home with something other than gold.


Like herpes?
 
2012-07-17 02:43:19 PM

Tax Boy: It started to get embarrassing when the team were signing autographs during plays and then broke out some old Globetrotter routines.


Even worse, they were signing autographs for players on the other team.
 
2012-07-17 02:53:04 PM

FreakinB: Supposedly the Lithuanian dude they drafted last year is really good though. I heard someone say that if he was in this year's draft, he probably would have been the #2 pick.


i heard that too. personally i would have thought they should have paid nash whatever amount he wanted to get him there. too bad they panicked on draft night...i thought they could have done some interesting things this year.
 
2012-07-17 03:06:20 PM
Almost losing to Brazil? The heck you say, that must be a bald face lie!

(checks score)

Whew, that was a close one.
 
2012-07-17 03:10:35 PM

IAmRight: poisonedpawn78: Tell that to the Raptors.

I guess I could clarify to the Raptors that just because the level of play has elevated doesn't mean that all foreign players are great.


And not to mention that the Raptors are just a team in a non-American country. That has zero to do with international players...
 
2012-07-17 03:16:14 PM
Spain is going to give this team fits. Their big men are gonna have some issues getting out and guarding other big guys with 20 foot range.
 
2012-07-17 03:18:28 PM
Protip subby: Being down by 10 is only a blowout in Hockey, Baseball and Soccer.
 
2012-07-17 03:21:14 PM

Flappyhead: poisonedpawn78: IAmRight:
And international play was nowhere near NBA-level play then. Now that players and coaches actually get into the NBA from other countries, their skill levels have improved.

Tell that to the Raptors.

[cdn3.sbnation.com image 410x274]
"8th overall biatches!"

God, what were they thinking?


I'm still of the sneaking suspicion that the Raptors get a lot of quiet calls from agents saying "if you draft our kid, that cool northern air's gonna make his knees hurt until he moves south". It would explain why they keep drafting from afar (where Toronto isn't as scary a city to a European) or much worse than projected.

That or their management just sucks that much, take your pick.
 
2012-07-17 03:21:53 PM

you have pee hands:
Also, the not-LeBrons shot 18-51. Why can't he make his teammates better?


Practice?
 
2012-07-17 03:23:22 PM
The 92 squad was down to Fance for a bit in an exhibition game just before the olympics started. This is a non story.

/92 would embarass the 12 squad
 
rka
2012-07-17 03:47:06 PM

poisonedpawn78: Smell that kobe? thats the jock straps you will be carrying for the rest of your life.


What does that even mean?

So a player can do all of this....

5× NBA Champion (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009-2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
14× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000-2012)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006-2007)
10× All-NBA First Team (2002-2004, 2006-2012)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000-2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003-2004, 2006-2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2001-2002, 2012)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (1996)

But because father time eventually catches up with everyone he's now a jock strap carrying scrub? He's now the black Jack Haley?
 
2012-07-17 03:51:36 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Practice?


These are franchise players we're talking about.
 
2012-07-17 04:00:02 PM

rka: poisonedpawn78: Smell that kobe? thats the jock straps you will be carrying for the rest of your life.

What does that even mean?

So a player can do all of this....

5× NBA Champion (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009-2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
14× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000-2012)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006-2007)
10× All-NBA First Team (2002-2004, 2006-2012)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000-2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003-2004, 2006-2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2001-2002, 2012)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (1996)

But because father time eventually catches up with everyone he's now a jock strap carrying scrub? He's now the black Jack Haley?


It's the NBA.

If you aren't THE BEST, you suck. That's it. There's no middle ground. Lose in the playoffs? Suck. Lose in the conference or NBA Finals? Suck. Singlehandedly carry your team for a whole game but come up short (Westbrook, game 5)? Suck.

That's it. Look at how many good teams, say the Bulls, are being told they have to retool and rebuild and restructure because they aren't THE BEST.

No other sport is like this.
 
2012-07-17 04:07:15 PM
Blown out?
 
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