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(Yahoo)   Boston slugger Adrian Gonzalez injures his back by: a) Lifting more weight than recommended. b) Crashing into a wall chasing a foul ball, c) Greeting a kid at the mall   (sports.yahoo.com) divider line 39
    More: Dumbass, Adrian Gonzalez, Red Sox Nation, Stan Kasten, back pain, Papis, hitter, chris chase, Tampa Bay Rays  
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826 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Jul 2012 at 12:42 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-16 12:45:03 PM  
And Exhibit A for ending the Home Run Derby.
 
2012-07-16 12:45:34 PM  
Was it this kid?

i1063.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-16 12:48:19 PM  
"Slugger" is kind of a stretch, given his performance this year: his SLG is .417, putting him 6 points behind Mike frigging Aviles, and he'shiat 6 HRs and no triples.
 
2012-07-16 01:01:58 PM  

xpisblack: "Slugger" is kind of a stretch, given his performance this year: his SLG is .417, putting him 6 points behind Mike frigging Aviles, and he'shiat 6 HRs and no triples.


Career vs. Season. The man was able to hit 30+ a season while playing half his games at PETCO. He definitely has impressive power.
 
2012-07-16 01:04:49 PM  

BKITU: xpisblack: "Slugger" is kind of a stretch, given his performance this year: his SLG is .417, putting him 6 points behind Mike frigging Aviles, and he'shiat 6 HRs and no triples.

Career vs. Season. The man was able to hit 30+ a season while playing half his games at PETCO. He definitely has impressive power.


He was able to hit HR before last year's Home Run Derby.
 
2012-07-16 01:09:22 PM  

BKITU: Career vs. Season. The man was able to hit 30+ a season while playing half his games at PETCO. He definitely has impressive power


What's still a bit disconcerting is that the general water-cooler talk surrounding some possible "good things" for the Red Sox this season was that apparently A-Gone played all of last year with a bum shoulder (or wrist, one of the two) that wasn't really reported last season, and he still had a very good 2011.

Either that never healed, or something else is up. He's not in PETCO anymore, and much like in Yankee Stadium, a LH batter could fart and a HR magically should appear in Fenway.
 
2012-07-16 01:14:12 PM  

Killer Cars: a LH batter could fart and a HR magically should appear in Fenway


How so? It's 380 to straight-away right field.
 
2012-07-16 01:15:50 PM  
I blame Bobby
 
2012-07-16 01:17:42 PM  

lilbjorn: How so? It's 380 to straight-away right field.


Good point, I've been out the area for years now, so I forgot it does get considerably deeper once you veer away from Pesky's pole.
 
2012-07-16 01:23:07 PM  

Killer Cars: lilbjorn: How so? It's 380 to straight-away right field.

Good point, I've been out the area for years now, so I forgot it does get considerably deeper once you veer away from Pesky's pole.


The pole's misleading. It's very deep like 10-15 feet in from the line. Do love the tiny fence, though.
 
2012-07-16 02:17:21 PM  

xpisblack: "Slugger" is kind of a stretch, given his performance this year: his SLG is .417, putting him 6 points behind Mike frigging Aviles, and he'shiat 6 HRs and no triples.


shiatting out 6 home runs is kinda impressive
 
2012-07-16 02:24:56 PM  

BKITU: Career vs. Season. The man was able to hit 30+ a season while playing half his games at PETCO. He definitely has impressive power.


Absolutely true. But we wouldn't call Jeter a "New York slugger" right now-- he's slugging .411 with 0 triples and 7 home runs, so is roughly on par with Gonzalez. Sure, he doesn't have history of power that Gonzalez has, but Gonzalez's power numbers in Fenway just haven't been what they were in PETCO, for some reason. He's a great player, a very good hitter, and could become a Boston slugger, but 33 home runs at a .502 SLG clip in 246 games in Boston don't make him a Boston slugger. He's been hitting a bunch of doubles, but his HR numbers have fallen off precipitously (roughly .202 HR/game with SD vs roughly .134 HR/game with Boston). He's an opposite-field hitter, so he was predicted to hit a lot of wall-ball doubles (which he has done), but that means he can't take advantage of the short right field at Fenway, and the Monster robs him of quite a few extra-base hits. At time of the trade, some analysts were predicting 30 HRs at home, given the ballpark dimensions, failing to account for the ridiculous height of the Monster. Again, he's a very good hitter, but expecting him to hit anything better than a double at Fenway is a bit foolish-- and doubles hitters are rarely identified as sluggers.

Killer Cars: Good point, I've been out the area for years now, so I forgot it does get considerably deeper once you veer away from Pesky's pole.


The right-field pole is, what, 302 feet from the plate? Yes, it gets a lot deeper towards centre field (420 in the deepest part, as I recall), and that jagged RF corner is a mess, but bending a near-foul just fair of Pesky's pole is (I believe) still the shortest home run in baseball. Which would matter if Gonzalez were a fly-ball pull hitter, but he's not. He's an exceptional opposite-field hitter (though most of his grounders are hit to right), so the pertinent field is left, where the foul pole is only 310 feet from home but the left-field wall is 37-odd feet high, and eats up what might be homers in other parks.
 
2012-07-16 03:10:15 PM  

MrVeach: shiatting out 6 home runs is kinda impressive


Yeah, that thrice-damned filter is brutal during baseball discussions. Still, it's a pretty good description of the homers he's knocked this year.
 
2012-07-16 03:33:31 PM  

xpisblack: The right-field pole is, what, 302 feet from the plate? Yes, it gets a lot deeper towards centre field (420 in the deepest part, as I recall), and that jagged RF corner is a mess, but bending a near-foul just fair of Pesky's pole is (I believe) still the shortest home run in baseball. Which would matter if Gonzalez were a fly-ball pull hitter, but he's not. He's an exceptional opposite-field hitter (though most of his grounders are hit to right), so the pertinent field is left, where the foul pole is only 310 feet from home but the left-field wall is 37-odd feet high, and eats up what might be homers in other parks.


302, but it gets deep immediately:

farm4.static.flickr.com

If you miss the pole fair by 10-15 feet, you're suddenly looking at a deep drive for a homer. And, weirdly enough, one of the shortest right field lines is Petco, of all places.
 
2012-07-16 03:44:55 PM  
this just in, the hot dog vendor, beer vendor, lemonade stand operator and Luis Tiant have all gone down on the DL.

/more information on our 6:00pm broadcast....
 
2012-07-16 03:54:24 PM  

Dafatone: 302, but it gets deep immediately:

farm4.static.flickr.com

If you miss the pole fair by 10-15 feet, you're suddenly looking at a deep drive for a homer. And, weirdly enough, one of the shortest right field lines is Petco, of all places.


Yeah, I've been to a few hundred games at Fenway over the past many years-- that corner is a nightmare. Dewey was a God.

The RF line in Petco is 322 ft, I believe, but it also gets deep fast (382 ft at dead right and then over 400 ft for the alley). But none of that is pertinent here because Gonzalez only rarely hits long flies to right field-- he's an opposite-field hitter, so the left-field dimensions matter far more when discussing his hitting abilities. Here's a link to his spray chart for this year; limit it to hits, and check the RF/LF split.

A lot of his RF and right-centre hits are grounders and shallow or low (or both) line drives (so little danger of an extra-base hit there), and he hits more to LF than RF anyway. That chart looks better than the reality, because a lot of those hits on or just past the white line representing the LF wall-- the ones that look like home runs-- actually just bounced off the wall and ended up singles or doubles, depending on location and ball-speed. Again, he'shiat 6 HRs this year, and the chart makes it look like a lot more than 6 left the park. The Monster is not his friend, and his slugging at Fenway is suffering because of it. His overall hitting is fine-- he's maintained a good average since arriving in Boston-- but the HRs have dropped quite a lot.

So again I point out that a doubles machine is rarely identified as a slugger.
 
2012-07-16 04:46:12 PM  

wooden_badger: And Exhibit A for ending the Home Run Derby.


Meh, I don't watch the derby... but as someone who's back has gone out several times... it just happens. Nothing you can do about it. Mine went out just getting out of bed once. My neck went out just turning my head once.
 
2012-07-16 04:48:10 PM  
Freaking Red Sox this season are made of paper-mâché.
 
2012-07-16 04:56:35 PM  

downstairs: wooden_badger: And Exhibit A for ending the Home Run Derby.

Meh, I don't watch the derby... but as someone who's back has gone out several times... it just happens. Nothing you can do about it. Mine went out just getting out of bed once. My neck went out just turning my head once.


Gonzalez was in last year's Home Run Derby (think he made it to the final 2 but I could be wrong). He was never the same hitter after that. Some say being in the derby threw off his swing.

/sorry about your back.
//wife hasn't worked since October because of her back
 
2012-07-16 05:00:55 PM  

Angry Buddha: Freaking Red Sox this season are made of paper-mâché.


Good thing they cleaned house by replacing just about all of their trainers and conditioning staff between last year and this... Clearly, the current folk are doing good work.
 
2012-07-16 05:05:38 PM  

wooden_badger: downstairs: wooden_badger: And Exhibit A for ending the Home Run Derby.

Meh, I don't watch the derby... but as someone who's back has gone out several times... it just happens. Nothing you can do about it. Mine went out just getting out of bed once. My neck went out just turning my head once.

Gonzalez was in last year's Home Run Derby (think he made it to the final 2 but I could be wrong). He was never the same hitter after that. Some say being in the derby threw off his swing.

/sorry about your back.
//wife hasn't worked since October because of her back


I'm always thinking the HRD caused my swing to fark up is such BS. Really? They take like 20-30 hacks, don't they? And during the season, in all the BP they take, they take thousands of swings.

/Yeah my back is prone to go out, but its not chronic. And never lasts more than 3-4 days. So I'm lucky enough.
 
2012-07-16 05:07:56 PM  

downstairs: wooden_badger: downstairs: wooden_badger: And Exhibit A for ending the Home Run Derby.

Meh, I don't watch the derby... but as someone who's back has gone out several times... it just happens. Nothing you can do about it. Mine went out just getting out of bed once. My neck went out just turning my head once.

Gonzalez was in last year's Home Run Derby (think he made it to the final 2 but I could be wrong). He was never the same hitter after that. Some say being in the derby threw off his swing.

/sorry about your back.
//wife hasn't worked since October because of her back

I'm always thinking the HRD caused my swing to fark up is such BS. Really? They take like 20-30 hacks, don't they? And during the season, in all the BP they take, they take thousands of swings.

/Yeah my back is prone to go out, but its not chronic. And never lasts more than 3-4 days. So I'm lucky enough.


I think Lance Berkman once said that if the derby threw off his swing, he didn't deserve to be in the majors.

I'm not sure if this was before or after he hurt himself coughing for the 18th time.
 
2012-07-16 06:05:35 PM  

Dafatone: I think Lance Berkman once said that if the derby threw off his swing, he didn't deserve to be in the majors.


Seriously. I assumed major leaguers have home run derbies on their own during their downtime. Maybe bet dinner on it or whatever.

I mean, basketball players notoriously play one-on-one, HORSE, and "shoot it from mid court" contests all the time.
 
2012-07-16 07:36:56 PM  
Pussy.

Winner of the Wade Boggs 'Threw My Back Out Putting Cowboy Boots On' award.

Really? REALLY? A professional athlete (yeah, I know it's baseball, but still) throws his back out bending over to high-5 a toddler?

FTS.
 
2012-07-16 08:53:55 PM  

downstairs: I'm always thinking the HRD caused my swing to fark up is such BS. Really? They take like 20-30 hacks, don't they? And during the season, in all the BP they take, they take thousands of swings.


First, a correction for something I posted earlier: Gonzalez has hit 6 HRs in total this year; only 4 have been at Fenway.

Anyway, I'm not sure I buy that excuse (which he certainly didn't make last year, though it was made for him repeatedly), either. But I want to look at the pertinent numbers to see whether it holds any water. The most patient hitters in baseball usually see about 4.5 pitches per plate appearance (this year's leader so far is Adam Dunn with 4.54, last year's leader was Granderson at 4.44, 2010's leader was Brett Gardner with 4.61, 2009's was Youkilis at 4.42, 2008's was Swisher at 4.53, and so on). One of the longest PAs in history was said to have been by Luke Appling in 1940, when he fouled off 24 pitches in one plate appearance before eventually walking. That's obviously unusual, but take as parameters that the most patient hitters in the game average-- again, that's average-- no more than 5 pitches per appearance, with 28 as the upper bound. So in an average 3-hour game, a very patient hitter is likely to see no more than about 20 pitches, though he could see as many as 40 (I'm assuming that any 25-plus pitch appearance will result in a later-game plunking or two). No one in history has hit more than 4 HRs in a game; Stan Musial and Nate Colbert share the record for most homers in a double-header with 5. Only 16 players have hit 4 HRs in a game, and 3 of those games included extra innings. I believe it's safe to say that Derby winners usually hit more than 5 HRs in a night, so the sheer volume of HRs is vastly different in the Derby than in a normal day of baseball.

But the Home Run Derby isn't really like a game, given the pitching cage and the focus on only hitting for power; it's more like BP. Pre-game batting practice normally contains several rounds for each sub-division of hitters within the team, each of which has 10-15 minutes to take their cuts; the first round usually allows each batter to take 6-8 swings, and each subsequent round allows fewer. Then the group shifts out to warm up in other ways, and the next group takes over. Then the game starts, and that very patient hitter is likely to see no more than 20 pitches, on average, per night.

The Home Run Derby is like seeing several games' worth of pitches all at once. So for Cano this year, who hit 0 homers in the Derby, his 10 swings were still more than a normal round of batting practice, and he saw roughly as many pitches (if not more-- I didn't count them, but seemed like at least 18) as he'd normally see in a whole game. Last year, when Cano won the Derby, he hit 8 home runs in the first round and 12 each in the second and third; Gonzalez hit 9 in the first round and 11 each in the second and third rounds.

That's a bizarre and unusual one-night load for a hitter, especially one who relies on fine-tuned timing as much as does Gonzalez (as did Abreu and maybe even Wright before him, each of whom seemed to hit a power slump after the Derby). Cano doesn't seem to have had that sort of problem, but given that he's generally considered an exceptional athlete, maybe he relies less on timing and more on another component of his athletic ability. Other genuine power hitters (Ortiz, Fielder, Hamilton, &c) also don't seem to have struggled as much; maybe what affected Gonzalez for a short while after the Derby last season was more like a slight timing adjustment that took time and effort to correct, by which point he'd started slumping and had to get over that compounding subsequent psychological slump before he could come back and start hitting well again. That's some pure speculation right there, but the HR Derby is absolutely an unusual and onerous departure for any hitter. With so many baseball players being described as creatures of habit, a single day of unusual physical exertion is said to be able to ruin the rest of a season. Imagine, if you will, a pitcher who normally averages 95 pitches per night suddenly having one game in which he throws 175. The manager would be excoriated, and the pitcher would be expected to take a while to recover because that excess probably put undue stress on his delicate pitching arm. Batting is obviously a different animal, but a creature-of-routine hitter who normally takes his time and grooves a few pitches he's been awaiting to record his 2 or 3 hits in a night could well get a little unravelled by the one-night change in volume and approach. Or at least that seems reasonable to believe.

I still think that hitting homers in Fenway is more of a problem for Gonzalez than was predicted and that ballpark factors play in more to his so-called power outage than the Derby, but I don't have the data to get into more depth than that right now.
 
2012-07-16 09:05:17 PM  

xpisblack: Angry Buddha: Freaking Red Sox this season are made of paper-mâché.

Good thing they cleaned house by replacing just about all of their trainers and conditioning staff between last year and this... Clearly, the current folk are doing good work.


Are you serious? I had no idea that went down... and I'm a Sox fan.

/not an attentive one it appears
 
2012-07-16 09:11:35 PM  

downstairs: wooden_badger: And Exhibit A for ending the Home Run Derby.

Meh, I don't watch the derby... but as someone who's back has gone out several times... it just happens. Nothing you can do about it. Mine went out just getting out of bed once. My neck went out just turning my head once.


Pretty much this. Once you hurt your back the first time, it's a crap shoot when it will go out again. I've had mine go out sneezing, not fun especially when driving.

/need to find me a nice physical therapist. Worked great when I first had issues.
 
2012-07-16 09:18:09 PM  
looks like the Jays just lost Joey Bats
 
2012-07-16 09:34:13 PM  
Okay, I just took back what I said up-post.

Yo, Adrian!
 
2012-07-16 09:36:46 PM  
Is it just me or does anyone else think he looks like Dante from Clerks?
 
2012-07-16 09:38:54 PM  

Angry Buddha: Are you serious? I had no idea that went down... and I'm a Sox fan.

/not an attentive one it appears


Yeah, they fired Dave Page and Greg Barajas in November, then restructured the team medical staff (they removed Dr. Gill almost immediately as director). They kept assistant trainer Masai Takahashi and promoted Mike Reinold, the former head trainer, to "lead physical therapist." I think they kept the two massage therapists and the medical operations coordinator, and promoted someone from the minors to assist the new head trainer, but they hired a bunch of new people and created a different hierarchy in the conditioning and medical parts of the club.

Pete Abraham wrote an article about it in January, and I remember thinking "Oh, crap. This team might make the Paralympics if they're very, very lucky." And that having to interact with bitterly irate Red Sox fans all summer would be a nice blast from the past-- better (for me) than the smug pink-hats who have become too much the norm, anyway. I'm just more used to dealing with a Boston baseball fanbase that presumes failure.
 
2012-07-16 09:57:43 PM  
D) chasing & crashing into a kid at the mall using more weight than recommended?

/Big fly for insurance runs tonight
 
2012-07-16 10:52:50 PM  

xpisblack: Angry Buddha: Are you serious? I had no idea that went down... and I'm a Sox fan.

/not an attentive one it appears

Yeah, they fired Dave Page and Greg Barajas in November, then restructured the team medical staff (they removed Dr. Gill almost immediately as director). They kept assistant trainer Masai Takahashi and promoted Mike Reinold, the former head trainer, to "lead physical therapist." I think they kept the two massage therapists and the medical operations coordinator, and promoted someone from the minors to assist the new head trainer, but they hired a bunch of new people and created a different hierarchy in the conditioning and medical parts of the club.

Pete Abraham wrote an article about it in January, and I remember thinking "Oh, crap. This team might make the Paralympics if they're very, very lucky." And that having to interact with bitterly irate Red Sox fans all summer would be a nice blast from the past-- better (for me) than the smug pink-hats who have become too much the norm, anyway. I'm just more used to dealing with a Boston baseball fanbase that presumes failure.


Wow. Holy shiat. Thanks for taking the time to post this.

Looking at the standings, I see our Sox are only a game ahead of meeting our expectations.
 
2012-07-16 11:10:07 PM  
At least it wasn't eating pancakes.
 
2012-07-17 12:28:40 AM  

bmckenna: At least it wasn't eating pancakes.


That only happens to players in Minnesota.

burntlumpia.typepad.com
 
2012-07-17 06:56:52 AM  

xpisblack: bmckenna: At least it wasn't eating pancakes.

That only happens to players in Minnesota.

[burntlumpia.typepad.com image 370x303]


LA too. Looks like this is turning into an epidemic!

i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-17 09:04:20 AM  

xpisblack: Angry Buddha: Are you serious? I had no idea that went down... and I'm a Sox fan.

/not an attentive one it appears

Yeah, they fired Dave Page and Greg Barajas in November, then restructured the team medical staff (they removed Dr. Gill almost immediately as director). They kept assistant trainer Masai Takahashi and promoted Mike Reinold, the former head trainer, to "lead physical therapist." I think they kept the two massage therapists and the medical operations coordinator, and promoted someone from the minors to assist the new head trainer, but they hired a bunch of new people and created a different hierarchy in the conditioning and medical parts of the club.

Pete Abraham wrote an article about it in January, and I remember thinking "Oh, crap. This team might make the Paralympics if they're very, very lucky." And that having to interact with bitterly irate Red Sox fans all summer would be a nice blast from the past-- better (for me) than the smug pink-hats who have become too much the norm, anyway. I'm just more used to dealing with a Boston baseball fanbase that presumes failure.


I don't remember the red sox being this fragile when Dr Morgan was the guy in charge.
But yeah, thanks for the info!
 
2012-07-17 12:52:18 PM  

bmckenna: At least it wasn't eating pancakes.


Beat me to it!
 
2012-07-17 09:29:27 PM  
Heck, Dustin penner threw his back out eating pancakes. Sometimes it;s the ones you don't see coming.

...I've played hockey and done hiking and was always running around climbing things, had a job that involved rotating a walk in freezer and offloading up to 50 pounds off a truck. Never injured. how do I get injured? Slipped on ice, broke my wrist. Slipped on my mom's van mat, ripped out my arch. Tripped off a stair, ripped out my arch again. Broke a toe slipping while walking on grass. Got inflamed ribs twice from wearing a bra/carrying a small duffel. I need to play more sports.
 
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