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(Chicago Trib)   Sixteen year-old forgets that cops have Facebook too and can arrest you if you brag about killing a sixty-two year old man for fun   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 182
    More: Followup, Facebook, North Side, St. Francis Hospital in Evanston, West Rogers Park, arrests  
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23029 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2012 at 3:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-16 10:50:16 AM

platedlizard: Ambivalence: Oh yah, cops and lawyers just LOVE facebook. It's absolutely incredible what people will post on the internet thinking no one can see it or find it.

AGREES
[i.imgur.com image 641x682]



Link For those who don't want to click, he also posted quite frequently about having child porn, how to get it, fapping to it, that he wanted to adopt a little girl to use as a sex slave, etc. Publicly. The FBI were not amused.


Jesus flying fark what a god damned idiot.

Although, I had a dark laugh when amongst the list of where the idiot put his child porn, was the listing "Also located on the flash drive was MCMICHAELS resume"
 
2012-07-16 11:01:05 AM

Tatterdemalian: If Mora had a gun and shot his attackers, we'd be calling him a deranged white-hispanic vigilante wannabe and demanding justice for his unarmed teenage victims.


i know most will call you troll for that. and you may well be.

it's also very plausible.

& if those 2 did this horrible thing, i hope they rot.
 
2012-07-16 11:04:18 AM

Wolf892: Gunther: Wolf892: Kids today are mentally messed up. I know that makes me sound like and old man for saying "kids today" but really, when kids are killing people for entertainment, just so they can show off...it's a sign of serious breakdown in society.

The violent crime rate has been dropping for decades. If kids today are messed up, then kids back in the 80's must have been goddamned monsters.

While violent crime in itself may be going down, what about violent crime being done by youth? I bet that's either going up, or at least when violent crime is happening, it's a lot more serious that it used to be.


It's gone way, way down. Things like raping hookers, robbing homeless people, and assaulting black people used to not even get investigated. There have been serial killers who killed half a dozen hookers before the police even started investigating.
 
2012-07-16 11:09:41 AM
For most of the thread. Need to take it down a notch, guys.
 
2012-07-16 11:10:57 AM
Try this again...
farm4.staticflickr.com

For most of the thread. Need to take it down a notch, guys.
 
2012-07-16 11:11:27 AM

Lord_Dubu: Yeah but this mugshot in the sidebar is priceless.

[www.chicagotribune.com image 300x379]


That beard rules!!
 
2012-07-16 11:12:34 AM

Wolf892: This is exactly what I was talking about in that other thread about the older woman who fought off a teen. Kids today are mentally messed up. I know that makes me sound like and old man for saying "kids today" but really, when kids are killing people for entertainment, just so they can show off...it's a sign of serious breakdown in society.
It's not until parents are held just as responsible for their kids crimes, and kids are punished at the same level as adults can we begin to feel safe when we walk past a group of teens at night.
Lock the scum up for life if they've proven they want to "opt out" of being human.


parents are held responsible for what their brats do & kids can be tried as adults.

/is tltg (too lazy to google) already in the 'internet slangbook' ?
 
2012-07-16 11:12:50 AM

Ambivalence: Oh yah, cops and lawyers just LOVE facebook. It's absolutely incredible what people will post on the internet thinking no one can see it or find it.


Someone told me, and I don't know if they were serious or not, that the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) ask applicants: "Is there anything in your past that would disqualify you from being a police officer that we should know about?"

Apparently, the RCMP have sometimes had to open criminal investigations because of some of the stuff people told them.

I think Facebook just made access to stupid people a lot easier.
 
2012-07-16 11:12:59 AM

accelerus: Since this is land of wuss though -- they will be sent to juvenile jail, taken care of, "talked to", and will be back on the streets after a while. Nothing is going to change in this country till we do to criminals what they do to us punish the criminals far more severely than we do.


FTFY

If the punishment is less than the crime, why should they fear punishment?
 
2012-07-16 11:26:43 AM

Psycoholic_Slag: Tatterdemalian: Which is why they're calling me a troll. Shut down the debate, hide under the bed, put fingers in ears and scream "LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU," but the facts remain the facts, and their beliefs remain beliefs.

These are the Farkers that will put you on their ignore list because your bad words hurt their feelings and reading posts from people with different view points assaults their reasoning skills.

Or something like that.


They'll eventually get the Kitty Genovese treatment themselves, and spend the remainder of their lives wondering why the able-bodied, well-armed patrol officers simply stand by recording the attack for later determination of guilt.

/even reverse-ignore lists won't save them
//and somehow my knowledge that people aren't mind readers, but are capable of avoiding behaviors that they see other people get punished for, makes me the sociopath
 
2012-07-16 11:31:32 AM

Tatterdemalian: If Mora had a gun and shot his attackers, we'd be calling him a deranged white-hispanic vigilante wannabe and demanding justice for his unarmed teenage victims.


If you're trying to draw an analogy between this and the "stand your ground" George Zimmerman incident, you fail.

1. Zimmerman wasn't attacked by anyone, regardless of his claims.

2. Mora was an old man, minding his own business when these two punks decided to have some "fun". Zimmerman's perfectly able to defend himself IF the situation called for it. In his case, it wasn't called for.

Do you think before making statements like the one you posted or are they kind of like thoughts that pop into your head like "I want a taco." or "I need to shiat." ?
 
2012-07-16 11:33:45 AM

vegasj: You're still implying Z chased down & gunned down that poor, poor, innocent "child".

geesh.


What, you mean the 9-11 calls where the operator tells Zimmerman to stop chasing down Trayvon wasn't a clue for you? Now of course there might be a lot more to the story that isn't known, but that's irrelevant towards this topic. What is known is that Zimmerman had a couple of chances to avoid escalating the conflict which he chose not to take (and against the advice of the 9-11 operator to boot), which is why Travyon is dead. It's controversial because using a gun should be done in self-defense, not on someone who you confront for not obvious reason and chase down on foot.

That alone makes the case much different than a couple of teenagers starting a conflict with an old man and then brutally beating him to death. The only relationship between the two crimes is that teenagers were involved in both situations.
 
2012-07-16 11:41:40 AM

Ambivalence: Oh yah, cops and lawyers just LOVE facebook. It's absolutely incredible what people will post on the internet thinking no one can see it or find it.


One of my wife's former coworkers just went crazy posting a bunch of pictures of this baby bird she had found and been keeping and nursing back to life, even though she knew that there was a very good chance that it was a species covered by the Migratory Bird Act. Even after she learned that if it was a covered species she could go to jail, she kept posting pictures and updates.
 
2012-07-16 11:43:54 AM
Almost forget, this Onion article seems relevant.
 
2012-07-16 11:49:02 AM

Gwyrddu: The only relationship between the two crimes is that teenagers were involved in both situations.


Yep.

And even if it turns out Zimmerman's version of the story is 100% true, it's still an avoidable tragedy.
I'm not sure that would be the case in this story had Mora killed those two pricks.

Even if Martin attacked Zimmerman, he didn't set out to assault an innocent victim.
It's a different case.

But yeah - it's too bad the victim wasn't armed.

As for the Martin shooting, while it's pretty disgusting to see the behaviour of the press and some "activists" in the aftermath of the shooting, it's equally disgusting to see some of the character-assassination going on aimed at Trayvon as well.

He posted some stupid "thug" pictures of himself and smoked some weed, so what?
If he attacked Zimmerman, then Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. That doesn't mean Martin deserved to die.
 
2012-07-16 11:57:18 AM

Franko: Ambivalence: Oh yah, cops and lawyers just LOVE facebook. It's absolutely incredible what people will post on the internet thinking no one can see it or find it.

Someone told me, and I don't know if they were serious or not, that the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) ask applicants: "Is there anything in your past that would disqualify you from being a police officer that we should know about?"

Apparently, the RCMP have sometimes had to open criminal investigations because of some of the stuff people told them.


Thats pretty par for the course for most law enforcement agencies here in the states be it city, county, state or federal and yes there are quite a few people who bring the heat on themselves during the interview process.

Wasnt too long ago that a Marine applying to the United States Secret Service outed himself and a few others in some murder overseas. Those tend to make people squak for reasons I've never understood.
 
2012-07-16 12:10:17 PM
One word: bath salts.
 
2012-07-16 12:10:30 PM

ThatDarkFellow: Sending them to jail isn't the answer. They're only kids.

That means they'll grow up to do worse. The answer is putting them down in the same fashion as their victim. Beat them all to death.


Emasculate them first.
 
2012-07-16 12:14:53 PM
Another win for multi-culturalism!
 
2012-07-16 12:16:22 PM

Novart: One word: bath salts.


I like it. If you're saying they should be locked in a cell together and given bath salts till they go psychotic on each other..
I wonder how long they would last...
 
2012-07-16 12:18:05 PM
Any spineless coward can beat up a defenseless old man. The prison system will inevitably fail them, so here's hoping it also fails to protect them.
 
2012-07-16 12:18:32 PM

hej: Wish this happened in Texas instead of Illinois.


I don't want it to happen anywhere.I just don't understand how anyone thought this was a good idea.How hard is it to teach kids "do no harm". I want to rant more but, getting too disgusted to bother.
 
2012-07-16 12:25:46 PM
Ah, yes! Summer is here and the young mudder bucks are in rut and larking...
 
2012-07-16 12:30:25 PM
img407.imageshack.us
 
2012-07-16 12:30:38 PM

Lord_Dubu: Yeah but this mugshot in the sidebar is priceless.

[www.chicagotribune.com image 300x379]


Daves not here, man
 
2012-07-16 12:33:24 PM

Dimensio: Loaded Six String: Gwyrddu: Tatterdemalian: If Mora had a gun and shot his attackers, we'd be calling him a deranged white-hispanic vigilante wannabe and demanding justice for his unarmed teenage victims.

0/10

Weak.

Also, we should have a troll button next to smart and funny.

Definitely a troll, but Mora might have lived. If lucky, he wouldn't have had to fire a shot. Unlucky and he would've had to shoot one of them. Broke a mirror kicking a black cat out of his path under a ladder unlucky and he would've had the gun wrestled away and used on him, leaving him dead as he is now.

A self defense weapon would've given him at least a chance.

The strict prohibition upon the carrying of firearms in public is the reason that Chicago experiences such a low rate of violent crime.


See? Now THAT is how you troll. However, you see cities like Chicago, New York, Compton, and DC which have high crime and very strict gun control and then you see cities like Detroit, Las Vegas, and Atlanta with high crime and very little gun control.
 
2012-07-16 12:37:41 PM

PunGent: I go with B. Yes, IF they did the crime, they deserve death. But usually, all we know is that the media and/or police SAY the defendant did the crime. Members of both those entities sometimes lie deliberately, or sometimes just make simple mistakes, so I prefer life in prison...REAL life, without parole, not "life, but you get out in ten years for good behavior" for these sort of really heinous crimes.


To me, the death penalty should have a much higher standard of guilt than simple imprisonment. "Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" isn't, in my mind, good enough to execute someone. "Guilty beyond any doubt" because you have, say, a video that they took on their own phone clearly showing them and they put on their Facebook page and was still on the phone when the cops siezed it? That to me is "Guilty beyond any doubt".
 
2012-07-16 12:39:53 PM

KimNorth:

So it evened out while Bush was president....so what has happen in the last 4 - 5 years as your chart does not show???

Bet still on.


The stats go through 2009, so it's 2.5 years. They're still collecting data.
 
2012-07-16 12:45:56 PM
Psycoholic_Slag: Tatterdemalian: Which is why they're calling me a troll. Shut down the debate, hide under the bed, put fingers in ears and scream "LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU," but the facts remain the facts, and their beliefs remain beliefs.

No, they called him a troll for posting something dumb with the intent of provoking people. See offmymed's post for why it was dumb and there is little that provokes people more than putting words in their mouth. He made no contribution to the discussion.

/get these animals off the street, preferably permanently or until they are poor (monetarily) weak old men. Steal their lives and leave them vulnerable.
 
2012-07-16 12:53:39 PM

meanmutton: Dimensio: Loaded Six String: Gwyrddu: Tatterdemalian: If Mora had a gun and shot his attackers, we'd be calling him a deranged white-hispanic vigilante wannabe and demanding justice for his unarmed teenage victims.

0/10

Weak.

Also, we should have a troll button next to smart and funny.

Definitely a troll, but Mora might have lived. If lucky, he wouldn't have had to fire a shot. Unlucky and he would've had to shoot one of them. Broke a mirror kicking a black cat out of his path under a ladder unlucky and he would've had the gun wrestled away and used on him, leaving him dead as he is now.

A self defense weapon would've given him at least a chance.

The strict prohibition upon the carrying of firearms in public is the reason that Chicago experiences such a low rate of violent crime.

See? Now THAT is how you troll. However, you see cities like Chicago, New York, Compton, and DC which have high crime and very strict gun control and then you see cities like Detroit, Las Vegas, and Atlanta with high crime and very little gun control.


So, what's the common denominator? The people who commit? Something about them? What...?
 
2012-07-16 12:57:44 PM

PeterPipersPickledPecker: So, what's the common denominator? The people who commit? Something about them? What...?


You're not supposed to ask those kinds of questions.
 
2012-07-16 01:02:24 PM

Magnanimous_J: PeterPipersPickledPecker: So, what's the common denominator? The people who commit? Something about them? What...?

You're not supposed to ask those kinds of questions.


Sorry, I just have an inquiring mind that wants to actually seek the truth of the matter.
 
2012-07-16 01:19:36 PM
Two words: General Population.
 
2012-07-16 01:21:11 PM
Can we please turn the south side into a 2012 version of "Escape From Chicago"? Just wall that shiat hole up, throw up some guard towers, and give them matches.
 
2012-07-16 01:38:05 PM

stewmadness: Can we please turn the south side into a 2012 version of "Escape From Chicago"? Just wall that shiat hole up, throw up some guard towers, and give them matches.


upload.wikimedia.org

Likes the cut of your urban planning jib
 
2012-07-16 01:50:21 PM

Magnanimous_J: Another win for multi-culturalism!



What did multiculturalism have to do with this crime?
 
2012-07-16 02:02:32 PM

spectrek: Hey, general prison population: we heard that these two also liked raping and beating 10-year-olds... One can only hope that they go to prison for life and face hell every day. Animals.


You know who else is an "Animal"? People who wish/fantasize about other people being raped for any reason.
 
2012-07-16 02:07:22 PM

stewmadness: Escape From Chicago


It was Escape from New York, not Chicago.

/Escape from Los Angeles never happened
//I said IT NEVER HAPPENED!
 
2012-07-16 02:12:24 PM

FarkinHostile: spectrek: Hey, general prison population: we heard that these two also liked raping and beating 10-year-olds... One can only hope that they go to prison for life and face hell every day. Animals.

You know who else is an "Animal"? People who wish/fantasize about other people being raped for any reason.


Then I guess I'm an "Animal", since there are many people in prison for rape--particularly the violent, as opposed to by drugging--who I really do feel deserve a punishment like that. Why shouldn't they get to be the object of similar unwanted sexual advances? I say that they should specifically be sentenced TO have to endure that on a very regular basis.

Any other "Animals" here?
 
2012-07-16 02:16:18 PM
Why yes, they are minorities
 
2012-07-16 02:21:02 PM

meanmutton: To me, the death penalty should have a much higher standard of guilt than simple imprisonment. "Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" isn't, in my mind, good enough to execute someone. "Guilty beyond any doubt" because you have, say, a video that they took on their own phone clearly showing them and they put on their Facebook page and was still on the phone when the cops siezed it? That to me is "Guilty beyond any doubt".


Absolutely agree with this. I tend to be for the death penalty in theory, but not so much in practice. It seems like some states (Texas, etc.) are far too gung ho with their executions. It's almost certain that they have executed innocent people, which absolutely sickens me. It would be so horrible to be jailed for so long and know that your execution is approaching due to nothing that you have done. So in almost all cases I would just prefer real life in prison. However in such cases as this where the proof is absolutely conclusive, I don't have a problem with the death penalty.
 
2012-07-16 02:28:06 PM

MeSoHomely: Why shouldn't they get to be the object of similar unwanted sexual advances?





Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.


("He who does battle with monsters needs to watch out lest he in the process become a monster himself. And if you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss will stare right back at you.")

Because we are supposed to be civilized. Revenge and bloodLUST are not civilized traits. We are supposed to be better then they are. Wrong is wrong and rape is wrong, period.


I say that they should specifically be sentenced TO have to endure that on a very regular basis.

You are no better than they are.

People like you are the reason aliens won't have anything to do with Earth. We have changed little from the days of open torture and barbarism.
 
2012-07-16 02:42:01 PM

vegasj: Gwyrddu: If Mora was a rent-a-cop harassing and chasing down the teenagers, he might have a point. As it is, he doesn't.

You're still implying Z chased down & gunned down that poor, poor, innocent "child".

geesh.


We get it, you think all black people are thugs. Move on with your life please and stop threadshiatting.
 
2012-07-16 02:49:27 PM
throw them in jail for life or just execute them. I really don't care which.
 
2012-07-16 02:53:22 PM

meanmutton: PunGent: I go with B. Yes, IF they did the crime, they deserve death. But usually, all we know is that the media and/or police SAY the defendant did the crime. Members of both those entities sometimes lie deliberately, or sometimes just make simple mistakes, so I prefer life in prison...REAL life, without parole, not "life, but you get out in ten years for good behavior" for these sort of really heinous crimes.

To me, the death penalty should have a much higher standard of guilt than simple imprisonment. "Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" isn't, in my mind, good enough to execute someone. "Guilty beyond any doubt" because you have, say, a video that they took on their own phone clearly showing them and they put on their Facebook page and was still on the phone when the cops siezed it? That to me is "Guilty beyond any doubt".


I understand your position.

But in this day and age, video and photos can be fairly easily faked. Poor people...who, let's face it, are the usual criminal defendants...can't always afford good lawyers, let alone competent experts to challenge the government's position that the evidence is legit. And jurors will usually believe the authorites...and usually, they're right to. Just not always.

Having argued a civil case in front of one judge who did not understand how a computer password worked, despite MY expert explaining to him in words of one syllable, I'm just not willing to put a man's life in the hands of our justice system. Or anyone else's system, for that matter. They all have flaws, and are vulnerable to human frailty.

Again, these particular scum probably ARE guilty...I'm just thinking about the system as a whole.

And, I'm not saying life in prison should be a picnic...no cable TV, no bleeding heart special privileges, beyond what the prison guards need to help ensure their own safety by rewarding cooperation from the inmates.
 
2012-07-16 02:54:25 PM

FarkinHostile: MeSoHomely: Why shouldn't they get to be the object of similar unwanted sexual advances?

Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.

("He who does battle with monsters needs to watch out lest he in the process become a monster himself. And if you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss will stare right back at you.")

Because we are supposed to be civilized. Revenge and bloodLUST are not civilized traits. We are supposed to be better then they are. Wrong is wrong and rape is wrong, period.


I say that they should specifically be sentenced TO have to endure that on a very regular basis.

You are no better than they are.

People like you are the reason aliens won't have anything to do with Earth. We have changed little from the days of open torture and barbarism.


If I have to choose between something being wrong and having to set forth a punishment that actually gets someone's attention in advance, I will certainly choose the appropriate punishment. Since people today can't seem to follow that "right vs. wrong" applies to them, being "wrong" is as common as ever. Further, if the punishment for doing "wrong" acts is negligible, what is the deterrent to going ahead with it? I feel that, since personal morality seems to have failed, the punishments offered up for the most severe crimes SHOULD be equally as barbaric. What's to keep me from getting pissed off, then going out and fileting a couple of people I don't like if I'm not scared of having to endure lethal injection? "Oh, you mean I'm going to be sedated, then I just won't wake up again?" How exactly is that a deterrent?

As far as the comment of me not being any better than them goes, it seems to imply that there is no line between committing the act and trying to prevent it ever happening again. I'm glad that you are far more enlightened than I am on this, since I haven't quite found a way to get everyone to let go of their aggression and sit around with me singing Kumbaya all afternoon.

A threat without a respected punishment has no meaning. An unfeared threat is not a threat.
 
2012-07-16 02:58:15 PM

platedlizard: CavalierEternal: platedlizard: Ambivalence: Oh yah, cops and lawyers just LOVE facebook. It's absolutely incredible what people will post on the internet thinking no one can see it or find it.

AGREES
[i.imgur.com image 641x682]



Link For those who don't want to click, he also posted quite frequently about having child porn, how to get it, fapping to it, that he wanted to adopt a little girl to use as a sex slave, etc. Publicly. The FBI were not amused.


So, to summarize, he claimed it was all a joke?


He did indeed. Presumably the gigs and gigs of cp in his computer were also a joke.


www.gymnasium-scheinfeld.de

Its so easy even a retard can do it. I will never understand some people.... in multiple ways.
 
2012-07-16 03:10:39 PM
What I've learned from this thread:

Farkers that make good points are called trolls.
Farkers that identify trolls are mentally handicapped.

Also, don't post your own crime footage on facebook.

That is all.
 
2012-07-16 03:49:19 PM

MeSoHomely: If I have to choose between something being wrong and having to set forth a punishment that actually gets someone's attention in advance, I will certainly choose the appropriate punishment.


You do know that the death penalty doesn't deter crime, right? And prison rape is a well known danger of going to prison, right? And of course, when the already damaged maggot gets brutally raped in prison, that does what? You think getting raped might just make them even more farked up and thus more likely to commit a horrible crime when they get out?

Is "gets someone's attention in advance" a solution or part of the problem? To me, its clearly part of the problem.

Since people today can't seem to follow that "right vs. wrong" applies to them, being "wrong" is as common as ever.

So we might as well be just as wrong and barbaric as they are? That makes sense to you?


What's to keep me from getting pissed off, then going out and fileting a couple of people I don't like if I'm not scared of having to endure lethal injection?

Nothing. And when you do, you should face the consequences. I don't think we disagree on that.

"Oh, you mean I'm going to be sedated, then I just won't wake up again?" How exactly is that a deterrent?

Well, good thing there were no crimes back when institutional torture and burning alive at the stake was common. Oh wait, that's right, horrific crime was just as common, if not more so, back then. I wonder if the barbarism of the age had anything to do with how cheap life was?


As far as the comment of me not being any better than them goes, it seems to imply that there is no line between committing the act and trying to prevent it ever happening again.

So being Ok....no, actually encouraging rape, is somehow going to send the message that rape is wrong and will prevent it ever happening again?

Think about that for a bit.


I'm glad that you are far more enlightened than I am on this, since I haven't quite found a way to get everyone to let go of their aggression and sit around with me singing Kumbaya all afternoon.


I understand the sentiment, and I used to think the same way, but as time went on and different viewpoints were shown to me I came to realize the error of my thinking, repented and now reject the base craving for revenge and bloodlust that is SO easy to indulge and wallow in. But truly, all that does is hold us back from true civilization and enlightenment, and corrupts your own soul.
 
2012-07-16 04:32:03 PM

FarkinHostile: MeSoHomely: If I have to choose between something being wrong and having to set forth a punishment that actually gets someone's attention in advance, I will certainly choose the appropriate punishment.

You do know that the death penalty doesn't deter crime, right? And prison rape is a well known danger of going to prison, right? And of course, when the already damaged maggot gets brutally raped in prison, that does what? You think getting raped might just make them even more farked up and thus more likely to commit a horrible crime when they get out?

For some, it does. For others, it doesn't. The risk of prison rape is enough of a deterrent for me as it is now. Unfortunately for all of us, it takes a lot more to get some people in society to behave. And the ones who absolutely won't behave according to the laws, even after an attempt at rehab? Those are the ones that I would sponsor the bullet to put through the side of their head to stop wasting taxpayers' money. For some, rehabilitation works--and I agree with that. For others, there is no realignment with the expectations of a civilized world--those are the ones that the bullets are for.

If you can't find a punishment that they fear, then we all have to either accept them as they are or remove them from the world of the living. Done deal, and everyone else knows what rules they will be expected to follow.

Is "gets someone's attention in advance" a solution or part of the problem? To me, its clearly part of the problem.

Obviously, you didn't get their attention strongly enough. THAT is the problem.

Since people today can't seem to follow that "right vs. wrong" applies to them, being "wrong" is as common as ever.

So we might as well be just as wrong and barbaric as they are? That makes sense to you?

So it makes more sense to allow them to continue to prey upon society, even if you already know that they are as barbaric as you seek to not be? If you were a cattle rancher and wolves kept killing off your cows, would you just keep offering up more cows to appease their hunger, or would you hunt them down and kill them? Is this barbaric? No.

What's to keep me from getting pissed off, then going out and fileting a couple of people I don't like if I'm not scared of having to endure lethal injection?

Nothing. And when you do, you should face the consequences. I don't think we disagree on that.

Good that we agree, but you haven't offered up any means of solving the problem other than saying "NO". If prison itself is not a deterrent, what should we do to remove the problem of criminals who just don't care? I am interested to hear your plans for this.

"Oh, you mean I'm going to be sedated, then I just won't wake up again?" How exactly is that a deterrent?

Well, good thing there were no crimes back when institutional torture and burning alive at the stake was common. Oh wait, that's right, horrific crime was just as common, if not more so, back then. I wonder if the barbarism of the age had anything to do with how cheap life was?

Arguing about past vs. present crime statistics is pointless, unless you have a time machine to go fix what is done and gone. The question at hand is how to handle the problem children that we have now.

As far as the comment of me not being any better than them goes, it seems to imply that there is no line between committing the act and trying to prevent it ever happening again.

So being Ok....no, actually encouraging rape, is somehow going to send the message that rape is wrong and will prevent it ever happening again?

Think about that for a bit.

It might with some. The point is that the punishments offered by the legal system are subverted so often that they effectively have no teeth. The same question arises: If you cannot prevent the crime on a basis of morality, how (other than an appropriately severe punishment) are you going to put a stop to it?

I'm glad that you are far more enlightened than I am on this, since I haven't quite found a way to get everyone to let go of their aggression and sit around with me singing Kumbaya all afternoon.

I understand the sentiment, and I used to think the same way, but as time went on and different viewpoints were shown to me I came to realize the error of my thinking, repented and now reject the base craving for revenge and bloodlust that is SO easy to indulge and wallow in. But truly, all that does is hold us back from true civilization and enlightenment, and corrupts your own soul.

It's not about a craving for bloodlust and revenge. If I have the choice between getting revenge or preventing the act from ever taking place, I will always choose the latter. That has nothing to do with bloodlust or revenge. Since there are members of society that refuse to follow the laws that everyone else has to, we must be either proactive or reactive in dealing with them. Reactive obviously isn't working.
 
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