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(Yahoo)   Possible pilot shortage raises safety concerns. They should have had the lasagna   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 25
    More: Interesting, Air Line Pilots Association, safety concerns, Federal Aviation Regulations, flight instructor, International Air Transport Association, job fair, shortages, shortage raises  
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851 clicks; posted to Business » on 15 Jul 2012 at 11:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-15 08:31:38 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-15 09:09:41 AM
There's always a "shortage" of pilots if you mean experienced pilots who will work for $20K a year.

Competition for any decent flying job is fierce and there are fewer left all the time.
 
2012-07-15 10:39:09 AM
"The cost of getting into flying is very expensive," Davis said. "When I talk to college students, if they're coming out of a four-year collegiate (aviation) program, most of them are $150,000 to $160,000 in debt. And that only gives them the qualifications to go be a flight instructor. If you're making $20,000 a year as a flight instructor you're lucky."

This will be a self-correcting problem. The airlines will find a way to make the salaries worthwhile or they'll run out of pilots and go out of business so that no one gets paid, one of the two.
 
2012-07-15 10:49:05 AM
The way things are going, I'll probably never fly again. But if I do, I'd like to think that the man or woman with the responsibility for getting my sorry ass off of and back onto the ground is getting paid somewhat more than I make in my silly deadend job moving software around
 
2012-07-15 12:07:21 PM

unlikely: "The cost of getting into flying is very expensive," Davis said. "When I talk to college students, if they're coming out of a four-year collegiate (aviation) program, most of them are $150,000 to $160,000 in debt. And that only gives them the qualifications to go be a flight instructor. If you're making $20,000 a year as a flight instructor you're lucky."

This will be a self-correcting problem. The airlines will find a way to make the salaries worthwhile or they'll run out of pilots and go out of business so that no one gets paid, one of the two.


Most pilots get their training for free in the US Airforce.

Some foreign airlines train their own pilots ( Lufthansa ), however US companies are very much dead set against training employees themselves.

/of course, they will probably do like the tech industry and claim a "shortage" and start importing pilots from other countries
 
2012-07-15 12:25:37 PM
img183.imageshack.us
 
2012-07-15 12:35:29 PM

unlikely: "The cost of getting into flying is very expensive," Davis said. "When I talk to college students, if they're coming out of a four-year collegiate (aviation) program, most of them are $150,000 to $160,000 in debt. And that only gives them the qualifications to go be a flight instructor. If you're making $20,000 a year as a flight instructor you're lucky."

This will be a self-correcting problem. The airlines will find a way to make the salaries worthwhile or they'll run out of pilots and go out of business so that no one gets paid, one of the two.


This will end in either one of two possible ways:

a) The airlines will place more of their financial burden on the taxpayer. Not satisfied with getting most of their pilots trained and the aircraft manufactures subsidized by the military, having the government pay the tab for infrastructure and security and getting regular bailouts whenever the entire industry threatens to go tits-up they will demand additional moneys from the government and get them.

b) Because qualified pilots are to expensive they will simply go with unqualified one and safety be dammed. Surely there are some chines or indian pilots who will work for a fraction of the price. If that doesn't work they can always lobby the FAA or somebody to relax standards a bit.
 
2012-07-15 01:00:52 PM
The USAF pipeline is pretty weak already, and only going to get weaker if budgets get further cut and more military flying is done by drone joystick pilots in an air-conditioned room in Florida.

It's an intrinsically appealing job to many 19-year-old boys. Absolutely captivating, even if actual regional commercial flying is a soul-suck crap job after 12 months. Which is why people will go into $100k of debt for shiat job prospects. They want to fly. Offer a clear pathway to steady employment and make it at least as remunerative as running a microwave at Applebees, and you'll have no shortages and your pick of possible hires.
 
2012-07-15 01:06:29 PM
Gee, funny how that works. Pay people so poorly that they're better off driving a garbage truck, and you end up with a shortage of employees.
 
2012-07-15 01:21:03 PM

Loki-L: unlikely: "The cost of getting into flying is very expensive," Davis said. "When I talk to college students, if they're coming out of a four-year collegiate (aviation) program, most of them are $150,000 to $160,000 in debt. And that only gives them the qualifications to go be a flight instructor. If you're making $20,000 a year as a flight instructor you're lucky."

This will be a self-correcting problem. The airlines will find a way to make the salaries worthwhile or they'll run out of pilots and go out of business so that no one gets paid, one of the two.

This will end in either one of two possible ways:

a) The airlines will place more of their financial burden on the taxpayer. Not satisfied with getting most of their pilots trained and the aircraft manufactures subsidized by the military, having the government pay the tab for infrastructure and security and getting regular bailouts whenever the entire industry threatens to go tits-up they will demand additional moneys from the government and get them.

b) Because qualified pilots are to expensive they will simply go with unqualified one and safety be dammed. Surely there are some chines or indian pilots who will work for a fraction of the price. If that doesn't work they can always lobby the FAA or somebody to relax standards a bit.


Yeah. It's kind of B.

At my flight school about 50% of the students are Indian and just about 100% of those students will be going back to India to get their first job at a major airline, I've heard of more than a few of them are currently sitting in the right seat of a 737. This just scares the crap out of me, I can't imagine flying on an airliner when the co-pilot has 250ish hours and the captain has 1,500 or so. If something goes wrong then everyone is pretty dead.

I'm just hoping the Canadian helicopter industry is better.

HempHead: unlikely: "The cost of getting into flying is very expensive," Davis said. "When I talk to college students, if they're coming out of a four-year collegiate (aviation) program, most of them are $150,000 to $160,000 in debt. And that only gives them the qualifications to go be a flight instructor. If you're making $20,000 a year as a flight instructor you're lucky."

This will be a self-correcting problem. The airlines will find a way to make the salaries worthwhile or they'll run out of pilots and go out of business so that no one gets paid, one of the two.

Most pilots get their training for free in the US Airforce.

Some foreign airlines train their own pilots ( Lufthansa ), however US companies are very much dead set against training employees themselves.

/of course, they will probably do like the tech industry and claim a "shortage" and start importing pilots from other countries


FTA: "At the same time, the pool of military-trained pilots that airlines have relied upon in the past has largely dried up as more pilots choose to remain in the military rather than seek airline careers, industry officials said."

No, most pilots aren't trained by the Air Force, it hasn't been that way for a long time.
 
2012-07-15 01:40:28 PM
"Possible pilot shortage raises safety concerns. They should have had the lasagna"

I believe the meme is,

"Possible pilot shortage raises concerns about safety, lasagna."
 
2012-07-15 02:11:41 PM
i4.ytimg.com

Oh, are you are pilot too?
 
2012-07-15 02:31:57 PM
I'm sure this will be an excuse to lobby Congress / the FAA to have only one pilot because of autopilot systems.
 
2012-07-15 03:26:11 PM

dg41: I'm sure this will be an excuse to lobby Congress / the FAA to have only one pilot because of autopilot systems.


I know you're not being completely serious (though I wouldn't put it past some operators to think that way) but that would be a terrible idea. The very first thing the autopilot does when things go a little sideways is say "fark this, I'm out of here." leaving the meat pilots to sort it out. Any CVR tape will tell you they both end up working the problem too.

It would be nice to see the airlines train up people that show potential by testing or whatever (kinda like the railroads do) but why do that when your future employees can start out $150k in the hole. The FAA kinda did the same thing with controllers...used to be you could take a test and be admitted to the academy, now you have to get a 4 year degree from one of a very few colleges that offer it, then apply to the academy and go through the same training they gave people without the 4 year degree. Considering they're using the same equipment they have been since the 1960's, the new requirement doesn't make a lot of sense, it just costs people more and shuts others out that may actually be good at it.
 
2012-07-15 03:35:17 PM
Drones.

If only we still killed civilians the old-fashioned way, the gentlemanly way, the old warrior way. With a guided missile fired at 35000 feet, viewed on a video heads-up display by a National Guard fighter pilot.

Oh well. There's no romance in war anymore.
 
2012-07-15 03:54:11 PM
It will just be the fig leaf to replace the pilot with automation. You'll die more often, but at least you won't annoy the staff as much.
 
2012-07-15 05:49:33 PM

dg41: I'm sure this will be an excuse to lobby Congress / the FAA to have only one pilot because of autopilot systems.


Well for once, in this case, our congresses idiocy would be pre-empted:

Ryan Air's Michael O'Leary, ladies and gentlemen.

Though there will never be a true pilot "shortage" in the US. Airlines will find ways to fill the seats, but this article is on the right track looking at it from a safety angle. Capt. Sullenberger has already sad it all.

US Airways Pilot Capt. "Sully" Sullenberger Speaks to Congress: "My Pay Has Been Cut by 40%" (video)
 
2012-07-15 06:19:02 PM
...With the big military flight training programs going extinct, the only way the airlines are going to keep the seats filled is if we end up with something like the truck driving training schools, only for airline pilots. The safety record will be similar. And the pay will be horrifyingly low for people with such responsibility - there was a commuter plane crash a few years ago where it turned out the pilot was only making about $10 an hour.

The airlines, on the other hand, will almost certainly lobby to have the rules changed so that on certain routes, they can fly with one pilot. Bet on it.
 
2012-07-15 08:19:04 PM

This About That: It will just be the fig leaf to replace the pilot with automation. You'll die more often, but at least you won't annoy the staff as much.


No, I think we will all die the same number of times. Once apiece.
 
2012-07-15 08:51:32 PM

change1211: Loki-L: unlikely: "The cost of getting into flying is very expensive," Davis said. "When I talk to college students, if they're coming out of a four-year collegiate (aviation) program, most of them are $150,000 to $160,000 in debt. And that only gives them the qualifications to go be a flight instructor. If you're making $20,000 a year as a flight instructor you're lucky."

This will be a self-correcting problem. The airlines will find a way to make the salaries worthwhile or they'll run out of pilots and go out of business so that no one gets paid, one of the two.

This will end in either one of two possible ways:

a) The airlines will place more of their financial burden on the taxpayer. Not satisfied with getting most of their pilots trained and the aircraft manufactures subsidized by the military, having the government pay the tab for infrastructure and security and getting regular bailouts whenever the entire industry threatens to go tits-up they will demand additional moneys from the government and get them.

b) Because qualified pilots are to expensive they will simply go with unqualified one and safety be dammed. Surely there are some chines or indian pilots who will work for a fraction of the price. If that doesn't work they can always lobby the FAA or somebody to relax standards a bit.




Or c) They'll automate the crap out of everything until they have one button for up, one button for down and a single goat staked out in the cockpit. This is also already in progress. You think the airlines don't recognize 777's could be automated drones too?
 
2012-07-15 10:08:07 PM
It seems like people have chosen a completely different career, altogether.
 
2012-07-16 01:24:32 AM

FunkManOnTheKeyboards: It seems like people have chosen a completely different career, altogether.


I did. It's the only way to pay off the flight school loans.
 
2012-07-16 07:56:32 AM
I grew up in a town in fairfield county, connecticut filled to the brim with airline pilots.

What lives they led back then. In the 1980s, By the time you were in your 50s you were flying 1-2 days a week, and making 150-300k a year.

Friend of my fathers used to fly an a300 for american airlines from jfk to puerto rico on a weekday morning, sit on the beach all afternoon, and fly back the next morning. Other than being on standby on weekends, that was all the flying he had to do for the week.

You can bet your life a lot of starry eyed kids from that era are regretting their career choice right about now.
 
2012-07-16 03:03:28 PM
I flew single engine fighters in the Air Force, but this plane has four engines. It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether.
 
2012-07-17 06:21:18 AM
Pilotless drones and mandatory sedatives. That's the future.
 
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