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(CNN)   Oregon rules that restaurant workers do not have to wear gloves, thinks that the whole hand washing thing may just be a moneymaking racket foisted upon people by the soap industry   (eatocracy.cnn.com) divider line 43
    More: Interesting, FDA Retail Food Code, Foodborne Illness Prevention Program  
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6998 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2012 at 8:02 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-07-15 08:17:58 AM
6 votes:
Gloves are to protect workers, not customers. Besides... when someone is wearing gloves, they can't feel if there is something on their hands they need to wash off. Good cooks/chefs know to keep their hands clean.
2012-07-15 08:13:51 AM
6 votes:
I don't have a problem with not wearing gloves as long as all other hygienic policies are followed, including regularly washing hands. Somehow we've managed to survive as a species for tens of thousands of years without the benefit of plastic gloves.
2012-07-15 08:09:49 AM
6 votes:
I love when they make your food then use their gloved hands to play with the cash in the register. Well, the gloves do keep the employees safe from that dirty cash.
2012-07-15 08:07:33 AM
6 votes:

CokeBear: Remind me never to eat out in Oregon


What makes you think the gloves are cleaner than the hands?
2012-07-15 08:14:15 AM
4 votes:
Real cooks don't wear gloves. That is all.
2012-07-15 10:07:48 AM
3 votes:

Gestankfaust: WTF are you smoking? Gloves in the food prep world have NEVER been to protect the worker. Are you thinking that it prevents HIV or Hep from all those infected foul or bovine? Seriously...think, then type


In the restaurants I've worked at, we wore gloves when we were dealing shellfish, pork, and sometimes chicken. Especially if we had any kind of wound at all on our hands. We weren't going to serve anyone any contaminated food, but we had to make sure we didn't get sick ourselves from handling raw foods that could contain bacteria that could infect us.

So yeah... it was mostly about our protection. Sure, it had the side effect of protecting the customers from anything we might have, but the gloves were mostly to protect us. And like it has been said and you apparently agree with, gloves are a false sense of security when it comes to final preparation and delivery of food. Washing hands is simply better.

Mostly my cooking experience is from smaller Mom & Pop shops that specialized in high quality food with careful preparation and execution. So... perhaps it's where I've cooked that gives me that perspective?
2012-07-15 08:08:29 AM
3 votes:
Oregon rules that restaurant workers do not have to wear gloves, thinks that the whole hand washing thing may just be a moneymaking racket foisted upon people by the soap industry

Yes, no.
2012-07-15 01:10:58 PM
2 votes:
We Americans are obsessed with some kind of fantasy world where nobody ever touches anything that goes into our mouths. Straws are protected with little paper condoms (I never saw this before I came to the US on vacation as a kid), prepared food comes in hermitically sealed packaging. People serving food are usually forced to wear latex gloves.

This is all for show folks. Your food is being touched by many people before it gets to your plate. Get over it and stop being so squeamish. For fark's sake most of us are eating mystery flesh from unspecified parts of animals that have been dead for who knows how long and from nobody seems to remember what part of the world. And you're worried about some snot under the salad chef's fingernails?

I lot of the foods we consume like mushrooms, catfish and pigs, thrive on the feces of other animals, or like to roll around in it. Our beloved cow's milk contains the puss from infected udders. Without bacteria and fungi infectiong our food there would be no cheese, beer, yogurt, bread, pickles.

The best food is lovingly prepared by hand. Besides, anybody who works a long shift on a hot day with latex gloves on knows that the gloves suffocate their skin and keep hands bathed in their own sweat until they start to smell like stinky feet by the end of the day becoming a biohazard in their own right.
2012-07-15 10:52:45 AM
2 votes:

david_gaithersburg: I love when they make your food then use their gloved hands to play with the cash in the register. Well, the gloves do keep the employees safe from that dirty cash.


That happens at every hot dog stand in Chattanooga. That is the reason that I don't eat at them.

However, even in restaurants I often see people wearing gloves take them off, handle money and then put the same pair of gloves back on to prepare more food. During the exchange they generally don't wash their hands and they touch the gloves all over (including the fingers and other areas that come into contact with food) with their unwashed money hands.

/germ freak
/washes hands at least 10 times during the course of preparing my own meals at home.
2012-07-15 09:22:46 AM
2 votes:

indarwinsshadow: Interesting. I blearily write this after spending the entire night awake with my 10 year old son, who has been projectile vomiting since 12:30 a.m. My guess is Staphylococcus aureus food poisoning from some idiot who didn't wash their hands properly and handled our food at the Wendys restaurant last night. So, here's a big middle finger to the morons on the court who don't believe people need to wear gloves to handle food.


I'm really sorry the boy is sick and I hope he makes a fast recovery. Alas, the person who handled your food was probably wearing gloves and they never bothered to change them. Gloves are no good if they're not changed as the worker encounters different food items and equipment.

I've been in the business for over thirty years and gloves have their place in the kitchen, but not at the final assembly of your order and especially not by staff that multitask between the line and registers.
2012-07-15 08:29:48 AM
2 votes:
As a restaurant industry veteran (15+ years) I can honestly say gloves are bad. It is so important that you wash your hands frequently and thoroughly. Gloves give you a false sense of cleanliness and actually make it less likely that you will wash them often enough. Clean skin is far more safe than a dirty glove.
2012-07-15 08:05:28 AM
2 votes:
Remind me never to eat out in Oregon
2012-07-16 09:55:45 AM
1 votes:

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: JeffreyScott: /germ freak

You could have saved yourself a lot of trouble by just writing that.

I don't mean to denigrate you, but:
1) If this is a pathology that you understand is likely irrational, seek help.
2) If you think it's perfectly sensible, get educated:

Germs are a part of life. And there is no such thing as perfect cleanliness. In fact, perfect cleanliness, if it was even attainable, would be fatal.

First, bear in mind what 'foreign' bodies really are and are not. A 'foreign' body is one that is not a product of your own genome. Yet our human genome contains an enormous amount of data that is likely of foreign origin. And all complex lifeforms (eukaryotes) derive from the incidence of one body inhabiting another. The mitochondria inside our cells, that produce the ATP providing all our body's energy, originated as foreign bodies; they are an extremely ancient symbiotic parasite of sorts, without which we would die. Less obviously symbiotic are our gut flora -- fully independent microorganisms that inhabit our GI tract, and deliver beneficial effects for us, such as helping us digest food and fighting off bad germs. There's good reason to believe we need these to survive also, or at least are much less healthy without them.

Our human bodies are covered and filled with foreign bodies, at a ratio of nearly ten to one of them to every one of our cells. Though, our cells are much larger, by a huge ratio, so the end product is that a typical healthy adult is carrying around about three or four pounds of foreign biomatter at a time. But don't let that trouble you: these are 'good' germs, not bad ones. And one of their important jobs is fighting off bad ones. Since it's impossible for us to be fully free of germs, that's very valuable.

Second, understand that most of the germs in the world won't hurt you. They're there, yes, but only some of them pose any real threat to us. You really don't need to worry about most of it most of the time, and in fact, a li ...


Small issue;
Washing, is not a disinfecting procedure, but a cleansing one to reduce bactrial counts and organic debris. It does not affect/induce resistance inless you foolishly routinely use antiseptic soap.
2012-07-15 07:47:26 PM
1 votes:

JeffreyScott: /germ freak


You could have saved yourself a lot of trouble by just writing that.

I don't mean to denigrate you, but:
1) If this is a pathology that you understand is likely irrational, seek help.
2) If you think it's perfectly sensible, get educated:

Germs are a part of life. And there is no such thing as perfect cleanliness. In fact, perfect cleanliness, if it was even attainable, would be fatal.

First, bear in mind what 'foreign' bodies really are and are not. A 'foreign' body is one that is not a product of your own genome. Yet our human genome contains an enormous amount of data that is likely of foreign origin. And all complex lifeforms (eukaryotes) derive from the incidence of one body inhabiting another. The mitochondria inside our cells, that produce the ATP providing all our body's energy, originated as foreign bodies; they are an extremely ancient symbiotic parasite of sorts, without which we would die. Less obviously symbiotic are our gut flora -- fully independent microorganisms that inhabit our GI tract, and deliver beneficial effects for us, such as helping us digest food and fighting off bad germs. There's good reason to believe we need these to survive also, or at least are much less healthy without them.

Our human bodies are covered and filled with foreign bodies, at a ratio of nearly ten to one of them to every one of our cells. Though, our cells are much larger, by a huge ratio, so the end product is that a typical healthy adult is carrying around about three or four pounds of foreign biomatter at a time. But don't let that trouble you: these are 'good' germs, not bad ones. And one of their important jobs is fighting off bad ones. Since it's impossible for us to be fully free of germs, that's very valuable.

Second, understand that most of the germs in the world won't hurt you. They're there, yes, but only some of them pose any real threat to us. You really don't need to worry about most of it most of the time, and in fact, a little can be good for you, in keeping your immune system informed about what's in your daily environment. Constant washing deprives your body of an important stream of information about your bioenvironment that may prove important later.

Third, constant washing, over the long run, has the opposite effect from the one you intend. Bugs are much simpler than we are, so they evolve much faster. Undo sanitation accelerates their evolution, and we can't actually just invent new antibiotics, but instead have to hope to discover new ones, and hope that the ones we already have remain effective. Severe sanitation results in 'superbugs' that are much harder to mitigate than their less hardy forebears. What I'm trying to tell you is that your constant handwashing and obsession with cleanliness will help introduce a series of increasingly dangerous pathogens -- ones that are less likely to emerge if we don't try to make ourselves and our world impossibly clean.
2012-07-15 01:29:14 PM
1 votes:
the funny things about gloves is.... they actually INCREASE your chances of getting foodborne illness. They are NEVER changed often enough, and many foodservice employees are more lax with handwashing, because they just slip gloves on instead. I've worked in foodservice for almost 20 years, and have worked in places that have glove requirements and also places that don't. The places that don't are WAY more sanitary.
2012-07-15 01:10:56 PM
1 votes:

poughdrew: Isn't there some other silly regulation about plastic cutting boards? IIRC, it's been shown that a wooden cutting board is more safe than a gouged-with-knife-marks plastic board. But hey, regulations. Of course, these exist to prevent against the lowest common denominator, which for cutting boards would be some food truck with a PT pine slab for their cutting board, and for gloves would be for that hemophiliac line cook with open cuts on their hands.


There is a possibility of cross contamination from a marred plastic cutting board, however if you are following procedure you have different colored boards for different foods and you run the boards through the dishwasher after each use.

And end-grain wood block for meat doesn't absorb bacteria, but it needs sanitizing between uses and they are farking heavy. Almost impossible to do a proper job of it on the fly.

The plastic boards are fairly cheap and best practice is to replace them often. The same goes with the boards on equipment. This is pricy but I've seen some horrible boards on used equipment that turned my stomach.
2012-07-15 12:58:05 PM
1 votes:
I wish they would come up with some sort of disposable or washable goretex like gloves that would breathe a little.
2012-07-15 12:54:08 PM
1 votes:

lack of warmth: I am not going to let my ice cream melt because some nut wants to protect herself from us.


The catch is, she's not just protecting herself from you, she's protecting YOU from some OTHER slob at the same time. Anthrax McSlob over at the creamery or Drippy McSneeze ahead of you in line manages to get something contaminated and she gets it on her hands unknowingly and it won't matter if YOUR order started clean.
2012-07-15 12:42:51 PM
1 votes:
It matters HOW you wash your hands, too. I saw a doctor last week, and the first thing he did after coming into the room was wash his hands. But there weren't those long handles on the faucets for turning the water on and off like you see surgeons using. Just regular faucet handles. So, he turned on the water, (contaiminating the handle) washed his hands, and then grabbed the handle again to turn the water off, which most likely negated the effort of washing his hands.
2012-07-15 12:31:14 PM
1 votes:
Isn't there some other silly regulation about plastic cutting boards? IIRC, it's been shown that a wooden cutting board is more safe than a gouged-with-knife-marks plastic board. But hey, regulations. Of course, these exist to prevent against the lowest common denominator, which for cutting boards would be some food truck with a PT pine slab for their cutting board, and for gloves would be for that hemophiliac line cook with open cuts on their hands.
2012-07-15 12:11:21 PM
1 votes:

JohnnyC: indarwinsshadow: Oh, you're right. We should have looked for a five star restaurant somewhere along the highway between the cottage and home. That way, we could have been assured of an excellent dining experience, AND free from food poisoning.

Every restaurant is a risk to some degree. You can mitigate that risk to some extent, but really you're still taking at least some risk no matter where you choose to eat. However, "fast food" is not generally known for being top notch on quality or cleanliness.

When we're traveling, we usually bring along the food we might need along the way. It isn't hard to pay attention to the fact that we will be on the road during a normal meal time and plan accordingly. We even make sure we pack foods that will keep well put it in a cooler. We stop at a rest stop somewhere along the way, have ourselves some food, and continue on our way.

indarwinsshadow: Oh, and f*ck off. You're a complete dick if you actually believe what you wrote.

Yes... that must be it too. I must be a complete dick for pointing out that you are responsible for your choices and your children. You are ultimately responsible for every bit of food they gobble up. How dare I suggest you take a little of the responsibility because you picked a shiatty restaurant and ended up having to clean up puke all night.

You made a choice... it was a bad one. shiat happens... Learn from it, grow from it, and try to make a better choice in the future... Or don't... you'll get no pity from me... I have kids... I've cleaned up projectile vomiting too, except I didn't get on the internet and whine about it to a bunch of people and try to blame it on the restaurant and then get pissy when someone called me on it.


Actually, "fast food" is generally known for being top notch on cleanliness (quality, well, i'll leave that alone) because most fast food places are run by some ridiculous behemoth of a corporation that has very strict controls in place. Management at those places has good reason to enforce those controls because they don't want to be replaced. Millions and millions of people eat at fast food places every day with very little incident (aside fron the obvious long term detriment to your health).

Also, you are kind of acting like an ass.
2012-07-15 11:57:39 AM
1 votes:
BarkingUnicorn
Some workers get bad rashes from frequent washing. Gloves are an alternative.


Then again, from what I've read, wearing gloves all the time causes skin problems for even more people because the hands are always slightly moist inside those plastic gloves and that damages the skin over time.
IIRC the recommendation for (food) workers was: "wear gloves for as short as possible and as long as necessary"
2012-07-15 11:36:12 AM
1 votes:

JeffreyScott: david_gaithersburg: I love when they make your food then use their gloved hands to play with the cash in the register. Well, the gloves do keep the employees safe from that dirty cash.

That happens at every hot dog stand in Chattanooga. That is the reason that I don't eat at them.

However, even in restaurants I often see people wearing gloves take them off, handle money and then put the same pair of gloves back on to prepare more food. During the exchange they generally don't wash their hands and they touch the gloves all over (including the fingers and other areas that come into contact with food) with their unwashed money hands.

/germ freak
/washes hands at least 10 times during the course of preparing my own meals at home.


I have the local sandwich shop with the hairy-armed Iranian guy who blew all over and into the opening of the glove to open it. Walked right out.
2012-07-15 11:11:15 AM
1 votes:
I'd be more concerned about the lack of hair nets and facemasks than I would be with gloves.

Nothing freaks me out more than a piece of hair in my food, or watching some asshole sneeze OVER the food, and then act like nothing happened.

/bit of a germaphobe
2012-07-15 10:56:46 AM
1 votes:
Some workers get bad rashes from frequent washing. Gloves are an alternative. Gloves get just as dirty as hands, so they need to be changed as often as one would wash. Germs are all over utensils, too, and I doubt they're washed as often as hands are.
2012-07-15 10:39:04 AM
1 votes:

farkityfarker: Once they've handled a bunch of cash, gone to the bathroom, wiped their ass, and fapped, all while wearing the glove, I don't see how I'm supposed to feel better while they prepare the food with the glove on.


I know when I worked at a restaurant, gloves definitely inhibited my cleanliness. I made shakes and desserts and such during rush periods. I always wound up with ice cream and syrup all over my gloved hands. There was a handwash station right behind me, but I didn't have time to pull off my gloves, scrub my hands, dry them, then labor to get another pair of gloves back on (seriously, if your hands are remotely wet, those things are a biatch to get on).

So I wiped my hands on my apron more often than not. Super nasty, especially when I had a turn-around shift and the apron still had yesterday's gunk on it. Even a ten second scrub under a hot faucet would have been better than my syrup-and-sweat caked gloves. Oh well...
2012-07-15 10:37:33 AM
1 votes:
Actually in my most recent Servesafe Certification class, (you know, what food service managers are pretty much required to have at ANY job these days) they were talking about recent studies that showed gloves gave employees a false sense of cleanliness and that they failed to change gloves appropriately and actually washed their hands/changed their gloves LESS than people who didn't wear gloves. This means that people wearing gloves actually removed the contaminants from their hands much less than those who didn't.

Gloves should really only be mandatory for people with cuts, abrasions, or other open wounds on their hands.
2012-07-15 10:26:13 AM
1 votes:
Let me break it down folks. Given a choice of two options, only two, no "none of the above" what would you rather have me put in your mouth for 30 seconds?

A) my finger after being washed in hot water and soap for as long as it takes to sing "Happy Birthday" vigorous nail-brushing included.

B) my gloved finger that may or may not be freshly gloved and in fact may have just touched a garbage can, a spoiled shrimp, the grease trap, unwashed spinach and raw hamburger.
2012-07-15 10:17:46 AM
1 votes:

Gestankfaust: Ruiizu: Gloves are for protecting the wearer, not the one being served. Gloves only need to be worn if something hazardous is being handled.

Outside of that, wash your damn hands. I would expect the best chefs are bare-handing my food, I just would hope that they wash them constantly and thoroughly between everything they do and that they don't cross contaminate.

Remember, you can put on a pair of gloves---then scratch your arse and pick your nose. Those gloves are not helping the customer.

You people and your reality....

Gloves are to do what the job calls for. In this case...TO KEEP THE FOOD GERM FREE AND YOU SAFE FROM BACTERIA!!

If it were in the medical field, then yes, protects the person wearing them. WTF is wrong with you people?


How do gloves accomplish that? As people have been trying to explain, the same underlying hygiene issues are still there. And, in fact, the gloves offer the worker a false sense of security, just like they seem to give you.

Do you notice how in the medical field they still wash their hands every time before donning/doffing their gloves? Think there's a reason for that?

I agree with the health department here. Mandatory gloves won't do one damn thing to improve food safety, therefore, the gov't shouldn't add a regulation.
2012-07-15 10:10:51 AM
1 votes:

Gestankfaust: If it were in the medical field, then yes, protects the person wearing them. WTF is wrong with you people?


And pushing our hands into the raw uncooked blood, offal, and flesh of animals is different how, exactly?
2012-07-15 09:53:58 AM
1 votes:
Gloves are for protecting the wearer, not the one being served. Gloves only need to be worn if something hazardous is being handled.

Outside of that, wash your damn hands. I would expect the best chefs are bare-handing my food, I just would hope that they wash them constantly and thoroughly between everything they do and that they don't cross contaminate.

Remember, you can put on a pair of gloves---then scratch your arse and pick your nose. Those gloves are not helping the customer.
2012-07-15 09:48:58 AM
1 votes:
Nothin' wrong with a foodborne pathogen from time to time, keeps your immune system good and strong!
2012-07-15 09:38:17 AM
1 votes:

indarwinsshadow: Oh, you're right. We should have looked for a five star restaurant somewhere along the highway between the cottage and home. That way, we could have been assured of an excellent dining experience, AND free from food poisoning.


Every restaurant is a risk to some degree. You can mitigate that risk to some extent, but really you're still taking at least some risk no matter where you choose to eat. However, "fast food" is not generally known for being top notch on quality or cleanliness.

When we're traveling, we usually bring along the food we might need along the way. It isn't hard to pay attention to the fact that we will be on the road during a normal meal time and plan accordingly. We even make sure we pack foods that will keep well put it in a cooler. We stop at a rest stop somewhere along the way, have ourselves some food, and continue on our way.

indarwinsshadow: Oh, and f*ck off. You're a complete dick if you actually believe what you wrote.


Yes... that must be it too. I must be a complete dick for pointing out that you are responsible for your choices and your children. You are ultimately responsible for every bit of food they gobble up. How dare I suggest you take a little of the responsibility because you picked a shiatty restaurant and ended up having to clean up puke all night.

You made a choice... it was a bad one. shiat happens... Learn from it, grow from it, and try to make a better choice in the future... Or don't... you'll get no pity from me... I have kids... I've cleaned up projectile vomiting too, except I didn't get on the internet and whine about it to a bunch of people and try to blame it on the restaurant and then get pissy when someone called me on it.
2012-07-15 09:18:20 AM
1 votes:

Monkey2: As a restaurant industry veteran (15+ years) I can honestly say gloves are bad. It is so important that you wash your hands frequently and thoroughly. Gloves give you a false sense of cleanliness and actually make it less likely that you will wash them often enough. Clean skin is far more safe than a dirty glove.

2012-07-15 09:15:32 AM
1 votes:

inclemency: As posted before, gloves give a false sense of security. At least that's what I've heard from several health inspectors. *shrug*


If you can't feel it... you don't know to wash it off.
2012-07-15 09:07:01 AM
1 votes:

indarwinsshadow: Interesting. I blearily write this after spending the entire night awake with my 10 year old son, who has been projectile vomiting since 12:30 a.m. My guess is Staphylococcus aureus food poisoning from some idiot who didn't wash their hands properly and handled our food at the Wendys restaurant last night. So, here's a big middle finger to the morons on the court who don't believe people need to wear gloves to handle food.


If the problem was that someone didn't wash their hands properly, wouldn't the solution be for people to wash their hands properly?

Incidentally, did your entire family wash their hands immediately before eating?
2012-07-15 09:04:14 AM
1 votes:

Another Government Employee: I wonder how many cooks had gloves melted onto their hands?


The answer? More than you could ever imagine. Third degree burns are horrific when seen up close. Worse than that are chef coats made from a poly-blend. You get too close to an open flame, (In a kitchen? Really? Who could ever foresee that?) they don't just burn, they melt. Restaurant work can turn scary pretty fast if you take it lightly.
2012-07-15 08:52:56 AM
1 votes:
Interesting. I blearily write this after spending the entire night awake with my 10 year old son, who has been projectile vomiting since 12:30 a.m. My guess is Staphylococcus aureus food poisoning from some idiot who didn't wash their hands properly and handled our food at the Wendys restaurant last night. So, here's a big middle finger to the morons on the court who don't believe people need to wear gloves to handle food.
2012-07-15 08:46:52 AM
1 votes:

McManus_brothers: spacelord321: Real cooks don't wear gloves. That is all.

JohnnyC: Good cooks/chefs know to keep their hands clean.

Properly trained chefs are one thing, and I have no problem with them not wearing gloves. However, the 19 year old line cook who just came back in from the alley after smoking a joint, yeah that's an issue.


Isn't that an issue whether the gloves are required or not. You think anyone who isn't going to respect the food or the kitchen is going to suddenly do the right thing because some regulation said that he/she has to wear gloves? Most likely not, I think.

I've worked as a cook a few times... "not giving a shiat" is not reserved for the 19 year old line cooks. About the only way you can keep an eye on things is if you go to a restaurant with an open kitchen where you can watch (rare, but worth it sometimes).

Also, everybody knows the place to smoke a joint is in the walk-in... and really, you're better off with a one hitter. You can't get off the line for very long without someone noticing. ;)
2012-07-15 08:39:54 AM
1 votes:

BrainyBear: Why does it have to be either washing your hands or wearing gloves? I want you to do both.


Sorry dude, it just doesn't work that way. If the employees wear gloves they wash their hands a lot less often, partially due to the hassle of having to change the gloves. Trust me, cooks who don't wear gloves are far less likely to serve you contaminated food (in general, there are always exceptions). In my experience any place that mandated gloves was coming off of a bad Health Department inspection score. It was just for show and actually made matters worse.
2012-07-15 08:33:25 AM
1 votes:
The people complaining about the headline either really can't take a joke or else they work for the soap industry.
2012-07-15 08:23:11 AM
1 votes:

Gwyrddu: Somehow we've managed to survive as a species for tens of thousands of years without the benefit of plastic gloves.


Probably closer to 3 million years, but I don't think that diminishes your point. :)
2012-07-15 08:20:45 AM
1 votes:

spacelord321: Real cooks don't wear gloves. That is all.


JohnnyC: Good cooks/chefs know to keep their hands clean.


Properly trained chefs are one thing, and I have no problem with them not wearing gloves. However, the 19 year old line cook who just came back in from the alley after smoking a joint, yeah that's an issue.
 
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