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(MSNBC)   Thanks to the DSM-5's new definition of General Anxiety Disorder, we can now all be labeled mentally ill. The Psychiatric and Pharmacological industries approve   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 88
    More: Stupid, DSM, anxiety disorders, Paleolithic, pharmaceutical research, stay-at-home mother, Temple University, IMS Health, American Psychiatric Association  
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3434 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Jul 2012 at 8:36 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-15 06:59:19 AM
We could all be labeled mentally ill with DSM-I, it just took a little longer to look it up.
 
2012-07-15 07:01:30 AM
Damn, the Scientologists were right!
 
2012-07-15 07:09:02 AM

propasaurus: Damn, the Scientologists were right!


Xenu has a lot to answer for.
 
2012-07-15 07:38:02 AM
I am mentally ill. No one's ever needed a book to figure that out.
 
2012-07-15 08:41:06 AM
Insurance companies demand codes and labeling for all your treatment needs. As someone who will be a licensed clinical social worker soon I could care less about labeling you. The DSM-V stuff is for getting your insurance to cover your sessions and medication and also for job protection or possible disability benefits. Some people also feel better if they can name what they are feeling. My psychopathology class was filled with people asking why the had to label people so quickly and how unjust they felt in doing so.

The DSM-V is also going to fark with people grieving. If you lose your spouse and is takes your more than two weeks to pull yourself together and get out of bed it is a form depression. Your get two weeks to grieve and then you better suck it up.
 
2012-07-15 08:46:15 AM
"We're sorry. The entire US population has been diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder. We have therefore dropped coverage of all of you, due to a pre-existing condition."
 
2012-07-15 09:06:04 AM

Gwendolyn: I could care less about labeling you


Would you say then that you care somewhat about labeling people?
 
2012-07-15 09:17:31 AM
What about sexual addiction?

/hello
 
2012-07-15 09:17:36 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: Gwendolyn: I could care less about labeling you

Would you say then that you care somewhat about labeling people?


I believe the general idea is that one is at the level of caring which, while extant, is so low that to care less would actually require effort, an effort one is unwilling to make.
 
2012-07-15 09:23:01 AM
I'm OK with this as long as it means I can get a script for medical marijuana.
 
2012-07-15 09:36:11 AM

Hagbardr: I'm OK with this as long as it means I can get a script for medical marijuana.


Exactly.

"Doc, I'm nervous and anxious all the time, I need medical marijuana!"

"What are you anxious about?"

"Running out of marijuana!"

/I forget who I stole that from
 
2012-07-15 09:36:29 AM
I want to be labeled mentally I'll so I can get some of that government money.
 
2012-07-15 09:47:29 AM

Gwendolyn: I could care less about labeling you


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw
 
2012-07-15 09:50:28 AM
It was only a matter of time until it was determined that we were all sick. It's been going in that direction for years. Drugs are the salvation of our species.

The good news is that if we're all sick, nobody is, so take solace in the fact that if you need drugs to function there's nothing wrong with you, it's perfectly normal.
 
2012-07-15 09:55:57 AM

Gwendolyn: Insurance companies demand codes and labeling for all your treatment needs. As someone who will be a licensed clinical social worker soon I could care less about labeling you. The DSM-V stuff is for getting your insurance to cover your sessions and medication and also for job protection or possible disability benefits. Some people also feel better if they can name what they are feeling. My psychopathology class was filled with people asking why the had to label people so quickly and how unjust they felt in doing so.

The DSM-V is also going to fark with people grieving. If you lose your spouse and is takes your more than two weeks to pull yourself together and get out of bed it is a form depression. Your get two weeks to grieve and then you better suck it up.


I'm more wondering how it will affect other things. You've not only got the insurance companies looking for loopholes, but rule mongers like the ATF and homeland security.
Will this lead to ending up on a watch list if you've been sad for a bit too long?
That kind of thing can cost people their careers at a moment in their lives when they don't need a second punch to the gut.

Adding a new kind of red flag to pop up in our hidden records, it's not something I would describe as an appealing situation.
 
2012-07-15 10:11:03 AM

Hagbardr: I'm OK with this as long as it means I can get a script for medical marijuana.


I know a guy who has his medical. He goes to these crazy state-wide symposiums and whatnot.. apparently, according to his cohorts, the DEA is secretly patenting strains of MJ (think monsanto). The belief amongst the medical folk is that, minus the few unpatented strains, is that the DEA will own the rights if full legalization occurs. IF there's any truth to that, then this medical thing is going to be quite murky in the coming decade. Not to mention that a new Pres/AG can just about-face on the whole "we wont prosecute" thing.

/Keep my name of the "to be raided" list, thankyouverymuch.
 
2012-07-15 10:11:33 AM
In today's world if you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.
 
2012-07-15 10:12:22 AM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: In today's world if you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.


QFT
 
2012-07-15 10:13:20 AM
I've been taking benzos daily for a year now. Now I'm physically addicted and experience extreme discomfort if I'm late on a dose. Just thinking about running out gives me heart palpitations and sweaty palms. Fark you, Doctor Know-it-all! Just kidding, I need my meds.
 
2012-07-15 10:20:14 AM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: In today's world if you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.


It's not paranoia if someone is actually watching you
 
2012-07-15 10:23:57 AM
Really? Anxiety over finances and health for longer than a few weeks makes you officially nuts?

Well lets see... been through two seperate cancer scares in the past year (benign, thank FSM) still need surgery that I can't afford, small business owner trying to keep going in this still shiatty economy, business is still way down, firstborn is already looking at colleges, roof is leaking, everybody needs braces...

Yep. I'm farking loony. Barking. Crackers. I haven't been anxiety-free since summer 2008.

Oh wait. I have no insurance, and can afford neither a shrink nor a long term perscription.

I'M CURED!!! No diagno$i$ for me! Woohoo! I feel happy....
 
2012-07-15 10:31:09 AM

the_rhino: What about sexual addiction?

/hello


cdn.uproxx.com
 
2012-07-15 10:34:13 AM

namegoeshere: Really? Anxiety over finances and health for longer than a few weeks makes you officially nuts?

Well lets see... been through two seperate cancer scares in the past year (benign, thank FSM) still need surgery that I can't afford, small business owner trying to keep going in this still shiatty economy, business is still way down, firstborn is already looking at colleges, roof is leaking, everybody needs braces...

Yep. I'm farking loony. Barking. Crackers. I haven't been anxiety-free since summer 2008.

Oh wait. I have no insurance, and can afford neither a shrink nor a long term perscription.

I'M CURED!!! No diagno$i$ for me! Woohoo! I feel happy....


Having anxiety and having anxiety attacks (especially constantly) are completely different, and is addressed in the diagnosis of "General Anxiety Disorder"

Until you experience it yourself, your perspective will likely be skewed. It isn't your fault. It is hard to relate to something LOOKING so benign, but something feeling so serious.

My anxiety attacks have a wide range of symptoms that are hard to live with. Sometimes, I get stroke like symptoms. Slurred speech, massive confusion, lack of coordination, etc. Others, I become paralyzed. I literally can't move. The doctors have said this was likely due to my brain being so electrically active, that it is having trouble operating my motor functions. My least favorite is when something seems to "break" inside after a prolonged attack, and I start dreaming while awake.
 
2012-07-15 10:43:21 AM

namegoeshere: Really? Anxiety over finances and health for longer than a few weeks makes you officially nuts?

Well lets see... been through two seperate cancer scares in the past year (benign, thank FSM) still need surgery that I can't afford, small business owner trying to keep going in this still shiatty economy, business is still way down, firstborn is already looking at colleges, roof is leaking, everybody needs braces...

Yep. I'm farking loony. Barking. Crackers. I haven't been anxiety-free since summer 2008.

Oh wait. I have no insurance, and can afford neither a shrink nor a long term perscription.

I'M CURED!!! No diagno$i$ for me! Woohoo! I feel happy....


You'd be crazy not to be loony. Congrats on beating Big C. Keep pushin' that boulder up that hill.

They say that there are only two things to worry about. Either you're healthy or you're not. If you're healthy, you have no worries.
If you're not healthy, you only have two worries. Either you live or you die. If you live, you have no worries.
If you die, you only have two worries. Either you go to Heaven or Hell. If you go to Heaven, you have no worries.
If you go to Hell, you'll be too busy greeting old friends to worry.
 
2012-07-15 10:53:24 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: It was only a matter of time until it was determined that we were all sick. It's been going in that direction for years. Drugs are the salvation of our species.

The good news is that if we're all sick, nobody is, so take solace in the fact that if you need drugs to function there's nothing wrong with you, it's perfectly normal.


A gramme is better than a damn.

/off to the feelies
 
2012-07-15 10:57:21 AM

untaken_name: Quantum Apostrophe: Gwendolyn: I could care less about labeling you

Would you say then that you care somewhat about labeling people?

I believe the general idea is that one is at the level of caring which, while extant, is so low that to care less would actually require effort, an effort one is unwilling to make.


And THAT is the phrase. It's not wrong; it's truncated. Kinda like saying "hell hath no fury" and leaving it that.
 
2012-07-15 10:57:39 AM
General anxiety disorder is meant for those people that are normal but think there is something wrong with them. Makes the patient happy because now they have something to make them think it's not their fault. General anxiety is part of life: money, driving in traffic, mother in laws, scary dudes...and so on.

/It's all in how you deal with it
 
2012-07-15 10:58:39 AM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: They say that there are only two things to worry about. Either you're healthy or you're not. If you're healthy, you have no worries.
If you're not healthy, you only have two worries. Either you live or you die. If you live, you have no worries.
If you die, you only have two worries. Either you go to Heaven or Hell. If you go to Heaven, you have no worries.
If you go to Hell, you'll be too busy greeting old friends to worry.


LOL, I like it!
 
2012-07-15 11:01:05 AM

namegoeshere: LOL, I like it!


I knew you would, because I've long had you favorited as "Intelligent Person".
 
2012-07-15 11:03:06 AM

Gwendolyn: Insurance companies demand codes and labeling for all your treatment needs. As someone who will be a licensed clinical social worker soon I could care less about labeling you. The DSM-V stuff is for getting your insurance to cover your sessions and medication and also for job protection or possible disability benefits. Some people also feel better if they can name what they are feeling. My psychopathology class was filled with people asking why the had to label people so quickly and how unjust they felt in doing so.

The DSM-V is also going to fark with people grieving. If you lose your spouse and is takes your more than two weeks to pull yourself together and get out of bed it is a form depression. Your get two weeks to grieve and then you better suck it up.


Did you NRTFA? I get where you're coming from, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but the anecdote that leads off TFA is about a young mother who was put on powerful drugs she felt and feels strongly she did not need. Much of the rest is about what seems like a rush to diagnose people with a classifiable illness who are just feeling normal anxiety we all feel, and DON'T NEED DRUGS. Meaning, we don't need a prescription for drugs.

Or, if you want to take the angle than a less invasive approach such as talk therapy would still require a formal diagnosis, then let's address that issue head on, instead of merely accepting it and going straight to the inevitable end product of a failed mental healthcare strategy. This is what we get for putting shareholders in charge of our health, instead of doctors.
 
2012-07-15 11:04:08 AM

MindChild: namegoeshere: Really? Anxiety over finances and health for longer than a few weeks makes you officially nuts?

Well lets see... been through two seperate cancer scares in the past year (benign, thank FSM) still need surgery that I can't afford, small business owner trying to keep going in this still shiatty economy, business is still way down, firstborn is already looking at colleges, roof is leaking, everybody needs braces...

Yep. I'm farking loony. Barking. Crackers. I haven't been anxiety-free since summer 2008.

Oh wait. I have no insurance, and can afford neither a shrink nor a long term perscription.

I'M CURED!!! No diagno$i$ for me! Woohoo! I feel happy....

Having anxiety and having anxiety attacks (especially constantly) are completely different, and is addressed in the diagnosis of "General Anxiety Disorder"

Until you experience it yourself, your perspective will likely be skewed. It isn't your fault. It is hard to relate to something LOOKING so benign, but something feeling so serious.

My anxiety attacks have a wide range of symptoms that are hard to live with. Sometimes, I get stroke like symptoms. Slurred speech, massive confusion, lack of coordination, etc. Others, I become paralyzed. I literally can't move. The doctors have said this was likely due to my brain being so electrically active, that it is having trouble operating my motor functions. My least favorite is when something seems to "break" inside after a prolonged attack, and I start dreaming while awake.


That's the point of TFA : "Because its threshold for GAD is set so ridiculously low, DSM-5 will mislabel as mentally ill many people who are experiencing no more than the normal and expected worries of everyday life," said Frances.

I'm not actually nuts*. I sure as hell do have anxiety, though. Deservedly so, but still.

Under the new DSM-5 guidelines, I'm a prime candidate for a diagnosis and a bunch o' scripts. Except I can't afford the diagnosis, and no one will benefit financially from my anxiety, so therefore, I'm perfectly fine.

* not calling you nuts. Also not making light of your suffering. I have loved ones who are there, and I get how much that sucks. I wish you all the help that is out there.
 
2012-07-15 11:06:12 AM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: namegoeshere: LOL, I like it!

I knew you would, because I've long had you favorited as "Intelligent Person".


Awww... : )
 
2012-07-15 11:09:11 AM

MindChild: namegoeshere: Really? Anxiety over finances and health for longer than a few weeks makes you officially nuts?

Well lets see... been through two seperate cancer scares in the past year (benign, thank FSM) still need surgery that I can't afford, small business owner trying to keep going in this still shiatty economy, business is still way down, firstborn is already looking at colleges, roof is leaking, everybody needs braces...

Yep. I'm farking loony. Barking. Crackers. I haven't been anxiety-free since summer 2008.

Oh wait. I have no insurance, and can afford neither a shrink nor a long term perscription.

I'M CURED!!! No diagno$i$ for me! Woohoo! I feel happy....

Having anxiety and having anxiety attacks (especially constantly) are completely different, and is addressed in the diagnosis of "General Anxiety Disorder"

Until you experience it yourself, your perspective will likely be skewed. It isn't your fault. It is hard to relate to something LOOKING so benign, but something feeling so serious.

My anxiety attacks have a wide range of symptoms that are hard to live with. Sometimes, I get stroke like symptoms. Slurred speech, massive confusion, lack of coordination, etc. Others, I become paralyzed. I literally can't move. The doctors have said this was likely due to my brain being so electrically active, that it is having trouble operating my motor functions. My least favorite is when something seems to "break" inside after a prolonged attack, and I start dreaming while awake.


I used to get panic attacks when I was young. Scary as all get out. I think it really is very hard to convey what it's like to anyone who's never had it. And there's good reason to believe that they can cause real and lasting physical damage, too, including to the central nervous system, so active intervention is definitely indicated.

The waking dreams you describe sound pretty unsettling, too. I've had that experience a few times. (Mostly back when I was still experimenting with lucid dreaming, which I thankfully stopped doing because of shiat like that.) I can't help wondering if whatever you're on right now might be in some way contributing to that, if it's still happening. But then, if it's always been like that and there's no change, then there's no reason to suspect that. Anyway, good luck with it all.
 
F42
2012-07-15 11:10:00 AM
FTFA Anxiety was working properly among survivors of Hurricane Katrina, Wakefield and Horwitz contend. Years after the devastating 2005 storm, schools, housing, policing and other aspects of life in New Orleans had still not returned to normal. Using DSM criteria, a 2007 study concluded that half the surviving residents were "mentally ill" because they experienced anxiety about those lingering effects.

That's dumb, it's not "not an illness" because there's a cause for that illness.

"Oh, he's bleeding is he? Well that's normal, he got stabbed", you still suffer and need to be treated, damn.
 
2012-07-15 11:11:39 AM
Is this the thread where we make up stories about how psychologically screwed up we are?

Because if it is, I need help coming up with a bullshiat diagnosis for myself. Something severe enough that people care, but not so bad that I can't go to Walmart.

/Pity party for one, please
 
2012-07-15 11:14:26 AM

GiveMeFiveDollars: General anxiety disorder is meant for those people that are normal but think there is something wrong with them. Makes the patient happy because now they have something to make them think it's not their fault. General anxiety is part of life: money, driving in traffic, mother in laws, scary dudes...and so on.

/It's all in how you deal with it


And yet lots of GP's will still prescribe something that the person doesn't need with lots of side effects and none of the other care that the person would need if there were an actual issue.
 
2012-07-15 11:14:37 AM
You know, if your doctor gives you a prescription for powerful medications you don't think you need, not only do you not have to take them, but you don't even have to get the prescription filled.

And, you can go see a different doctor.
 
2012-07-15 11:16:03 AM

Meethos: Is this the thread where we make up stories about how psychologically screwed up we are?

Because if it is, I need help coming up with a bullshiat diagnosis for myself. Something severe enough that people care, but not so bad that I can't go to Walmart.

/Pity party for one, please


Just tell them you're a zero-light Farker. That should do.
 
2012-07-15 11:19:19 AM
I suffer from anxiety reading the Politics tab and depression since I can no longer figure out who the damn trolls are.
 
2012-07-15 11:19:47 AM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: In today's world if you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.


img.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-15 11:20:02 AM
The way our healthcare system is we need catchalls to label people with otherwise insurance will never pay for care. Fix that and maybe we can fix our labels.

/LCSW rant.
 
2012-07-15 11:22:48 AM

ToxicMunkee: You know, if your doctor gives you a prescription for powerful medications you don't think you need, not only do you not have to take them, but you don't even have to get the prescription filled.

And, you can go see a different doctor.


Well, I'd mitigate that with a couple things. If you're genuinely ill, they do not need to release you, even if you insist on it. There's a process, but it's not like you can actually just get up and walk out, if they think that would be a really bad idea. And they can force meds on you under those circumstances, too. I know that's an extreme example, and not what you meant; I'm only pointing out that general remarks invite extreme counterarguments. It's not entirely valid to say that, if you feel you don't need it, you don't, and you can refuse. You can't in every single case.

The other point I'd like to make is that at least in the U.S., healthcare is run mostly by large corporations that enjoy broad latitude in the rules and restrictions and requirements they can place on care. It's literally true that you can see another doctor, but that's not the same thing as being able to pay for it. If you can't find another doctor within your plan, or one you like, then you'd better have some spare cash, or accept no help at all.
 
2012-07-15 11:27:19 AM
Dr. Caron: I have to be quick! About a tenth of a percent of the population had the opposite reaction to the Pax. Their aggressor response increased beyond madness. They have become... *CRASH* *sobs* Well, they've killed most of us. And not just killed... they've done things...

Wash: Reavers... They made them.

Dr. Caron: I won't live to report this, but people have to know. We meant it for the best... to make people safer.

i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-07-15 11:28:12 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: It was only a matter of time until it was determined that we were all sick. It's been going in that direction for years. Drugs are the salvation of our species.

The good news is that if we're all sick, nobody is, so take solace in the fact that if you need drugs to function there's nothing wrong with you, it's perfectly normal.


Hey, buddy, I EARNED my SOMA!!!

/MOAR!!
 
2012-07-15 11:32:44 AM
It's the same with ADHD. I was diagnosed with it as a kid, but decided soon after that the meds weren't worth it. I was having a conversation with a couple just a month ago and they said they both had ADHD and the wife at least was still taking meds. I was talking with them about it and if they really had attention problems and the wife said, "Oh, I just have the kind that makes you fidget." And that got me thinking, "what the fark? So you fidget a little? How many other people are taking medicine for stuff that most people who aren't drug company marketers would consider normal behavior?" It looks like it's a lot more than ADHD now.

Feeling anxious? Generalized Anxiety Disorder!
Any negative feelings surrounding child birth? Postpartum Depression!
Like musicals? Teh ghey!
 
2012-07-15 11:33:12 AM
ugh, articles like this are so annoyingly one-sided, where do i even begin?

they didn't interview anybody who's benefited from psychiatric treatment, only people who felt they were harmed, or, at best simply didn't improve. the articles paints these people as helpless victims subject to the whims of their pcps or psychiatrists, as if they had no say whatsoever in seeking treatment or asking questions about the medications they were prescribed. the demon drug-pushers were just stuffing medications down their throats.

it also doesn't get any expert opinion on some of the alleged prescribing patterns that were discussed. for example, one woman says, "[the psychiatrist] gave me Lexapro," to which a psychiatrist added Paxil, Xanax and Klonopin. that would be a highly unusual combination of medications--2 ssris, one short-acting benzo, and one long-acting benzo, which makes me question the veracity of the claim. assuming it's true, however, the article's author should have had an expert weigh-in on the reasonableness of this polypharmacy. instead, the author includes this anecdote as if to suggest that psychiatrists just throw drugs around willy nilly and have no qualms about putting people on such regimens. so, either the anecdote itself is exaggerated or the author is citing an unorthodox example as if to represent what the entire profession practices.

the article also doesn't discuss the role of psychotherapy in treating conditions such as social phobia (which is quite amenable to short-term psychotherapy like cbt). of course, there are myriad reasons why psychotherapy isn't used as much as it could be--lack of access, lack of insurance reimbursement, more time consuming--that would be a great topic for the author to explore, but, again, that was neglected. unfortunately, we live in a society in which people often look for the quick-fix and drugs are usually seen as such in treating psychiatric conditions. i think prescribing professionals and patients are both complicit in maintaining this attitude.

i also think psychiatry finds itself in a difficult position a lot of the time. even with the mental health parity laws having gone into effect in 2008, it's still a real struggle to get insurance companies to reimburse for psychiatric treatment, and nigh impossible without an axis I diagnosis. so the paradox is this: a person is struggling with "situational anxiety" as described in the article (whether that be losing a loved one, losing a job, having a baby, etc) and it's impairing them enough that they seek treatment for it. is the anxiety, in itself, pathological? oftentimes it probably isn't and is, in fact, a very normal and appropriate reaction to a given situation. so the person is struggling and maybe having a hard time functioning to their "normal" levels, but this probably doesn't represent mental illness per se. however, such a nuanced explanation doesn't cut it with insurance companies who just want a nice tidy answer on whether there's an axis I diagnosis, and who will not reimburse you if there isn't one.

this really exemplifies one of the major difficulties psychiatry faces. there are many bona fide psychiatric illnesses (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, ocd) that clearly represent psychopathology and are associated with long-term disability and functional impairment. there are a lot of "psychiatry-light" issues that probably aren't real psychopathology, but that impair people in some way, for some time and that leads them to seek treatment. until the system is changed, and these situations can be treated and reimbursed more fairly, we're going to have situations like the article is describing.

i should also say that i don't think the solution to this problem is making diagnostic criteria less stringent in dsm-5. that's a mistake. i think that current diagnostic criteria are already not as rigorously applied as they could be and it would be ridiculous to lower the threshold.

/end rant
 
2012-07-15 11:47:42 AM
i1136.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-15 11:49:58 AM
I went to the doctor for heart palpitations I was getting while going to sleep. It even woke me up in the middle of the night. He instantly started on the anxiety questions thinking it was a panic attack. Then he decided to do an EKG just for the heck of it. Nurse came in, put the leads on me, started the machine, then 15 seconds later disconnected me and flew out of the room. The doctor came back into the room within seconds with the paper strip and told me I had premature atrial contractions. He said he'd never seen anything on an EKG in his office when someone had a complaint of heart palpitations. I had to wear a Holter monitor and have a stress test to rule out A-fib. Now I'm on 120mg Inderal and feel lucky it showed in the office, or I might be on anxiety meds instead of the proper drug.
 
2012-07-15 11:50:01 AM
i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-07-15 12:06:53 PM
Whew, thought I was autistic for a minute there...
 
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