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(Cleveland Plain Dealer)   If you crate your dog, don't trick yourself into believing that he's truly comfortable and secure in there because it's just like a cozy wolf den   (cleveland.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, dog trainer, rescue dogs  
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12291 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2012 at 8:50 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-14 05:26:04 PM  
Hmm.
 
2012-07-14 05:46:50 PM  
Doesn't everyone who has ever had a dog realize that they don't like being locked in those things?

The only time I ever used one was driving to the vet, because my dog would make it dangerous to drive.
 
2012-07-14 05:56:19 PM  
Our girl is past the puppy phase, so the door is open. She goes in there to get space away from the bigger dog, who knows it's the little dog's crate.

Who the hell crates their dog at night if they also crate during work hours?
 
2012-07-14 06:13:33 PM  

FloydA: Doesn't everyone who has ever had a dog realize that they don't like being locked in those things?

The only time I ever used one was driving to the vet, because my dog would make it dangerous to drive.


You missed last night's TFD thread that turned into a bit of mayhem over this issue.
So very glad I have no strong opinions on this.
Don't remember the original subject.
 
2012-07-14 06:33:17 PM  

AbbeySomeone: FloydA: Doesn't everyone who has ever had a dog realize that they don't like being locked in those things?

The only time I ever used one was driving to the vet, because my dog would make it dangerous to drive.

You missed last night's TFD thread that turned into a bit of mayhem over this issue.
So very glad I have no strong opinions on this.
Don't remember the original subject.


Do you have the link?
 
2012-07-14 06:52:03 PM  

AbbeySomeone:

You missed last night's TFD thread that turned into a bit of mayhem over this issue.
So very glad I have no strong opinions on this.
Don't remember the original subject.


Yeah, I've learned to avoid TFD for just that reason.
 
2012-07-14 06:59:44 PM  
If you want an animal to keep in a cage, get one of these:
www.petcityhouston.com
 
2012-07-14 07:08:00 PM  

violentsalvation: AbbeySomeone: FloydA: Doesn't everyone who has ever had a dog realize that they don't like being locked in those things?

The only time I ever used one was driving to the vet, because my dog would make it dangerous to drive.

You missed last night's TFD thread that turned into a bit of mayhem over this issue.
So very glad I have no strong opinions on this.
Don't remember the original subject.

Do you have the link?


7212762 - it started out as some loser pandering to farkers to buy sh*t off his new wife's wedding registry.

FloydA: AbbeySomeone:

You missed last night's TFD thread that turned into a bit of mayhem over this issue.
So very glad I have no strong opinions on this.
Don't remember the original subject.

Yeah, I've learned to avoid TFD for just that reason.


It's more of a Highschool circle jerk sometimes and can be very depressing. If I am on there it's early and a different crowd and I am up tending our old cage free dog.
 
2012-07-14 07:10:33 PM  
1) The article is written by PETA
2) They site no research backing their point of view, but they present their opinion as a fact.
3) Birds aren't caged in the wild either, GGracie. If PETA doesn't like caged dogs I am sure they also don't like caged birds. It's no more natural for a bird than for a dog.

/My dogs are not in cages
 
2012-07-14 07:16:33 PM  
FTA: But trainers aren't the only ones who profit from crates

As a dog trainer - how can I profit from crates?

CRATES ARE HURTING SOCIETY
 
2012-07-14 07:27:11 PM  

Steve Zodiac: 1) The article is written by PETA
2) They site no research backing their point of view, but they present their opinion as a fact.
3) Birds aren't caged in the wild either, GGracie. If PETA doesn't like caged dogs I am sure they also don't like caged birds. It's no more natural for a bird than for a dog.

/My dogs are not in cages


F*ck PETA. I can tell you personally that birds LIKE their cages. I have had all kinds of birds for many years and they actually like being in their cages. I let some of mine out to roam around on top of their cages. When they are done they go right back inside, on their own. These are not wild birds that I am talking about. Pet birds are usually bred in cages. Their cages are their homes. They aren't too good for their home :-)
 
2012-07-14 07:27:35 PM  
Holy crap what a bullshiat article. You people are upvoting a PETA lie.
 
2012-07-14 07:27:35 PM  
WTF is this shiat? Oh...PETA...you could wipe your ass with the useful information in this article and it would still be wasted.

Make the crate a positive experience (don't use it as a punishment) and your dog will like it.

Also, stop treating your dog like it is a furry human, it's not, it's a dog. 100% of dog's unhappiness comes from humans treating it like it was another human.
 
2012-07-14 08:47:12 PM  
Pets = Slaves
Stop pretending otherwise.
Either free all the slaves or accept that we are keeping slaves.
YAwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
 
2012-07-14 08:56:05 PM  
Our pup never liked it when we left, but if the door was open to her crate she'd lay in it and chill out.

Of course, we stopped keeping her in the crate when she became totally house broken.

www.itsjustcrap.com
 
2012-07-14 08:57:31 PM  
Just based on the number of assertions in this article, I'm going to have to call it well-written and concede every point offered in it.

Well played, Karen Porecca.
 
2012-07-14 08:59:18 PM  
I will listen to multiple professional dog trainers and veterinarians over these fruitcakes. Thanks.
 
2012-07-14 09:00:53 PM  
Why not place the dog in a normally unused room or out in the yard when you don't want it running around the house? And if you don't have a spare room your dog can be in when you the dog is underfoot or you don't have a yard then maybe you shouldn't have a dog either.
 
2012-07-14 09:02:27 PM  
Look assholes, this is PETA talking and yea you COULD keep your dog in a crate for long periods of time. You could also kill Jews just like Hitler, but will you? WILL YOU? It's no different; these majestic creatures (dogs, not Jews), known for eating their own excrement, should never be crated.

Ever.

While we're at it, stop locking the dog in the backyard or the house too. That little scamp has what we know to be a "doggie-soul". That's right, it's right to exist free is as inalienable as ours! Yes, this may lead to Fido taking a chomp out of the precocious 3 year old girl who simply walks on the sidewalk in front of your house, but we ALL know she must have done something to provoke such a response.

In summary please listen to PETA and let these noble beasts roam free, consequences be damned!
 
2012-07-14 09:03:00 PM  
Mitt Romney doesn't see any problem with dog crates.
 
2012-07-14 09:03:15 PM  

namatad: Pets = Slaves
Stop pretending otherwise.
Either free all the slaves or accept that we are keeping slaves.
YAwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn


What about the stray dog who won't leave after you gave him some scraps?
 
2012-07-14 09:06:09 PM  

GGracie: Steve Zodiac: 1) The article is written by PETA
2) They site no research backing their point of view, but they present their opinion as a fact.
3) Birds aren't caged in the wild either, GGracie. If PETA doesn't like caged dogs I am sure they also don't like caged birds. It's no more natural for a bird than for a dog.

/My dogs are not in cages

F*ck PETA. I can tell you personally that birds LIKE their cages. I have had all kinds of birds for many years and they actually like being in their cages. I let some of mine out to roam around on top of their cages. When they are done they go right back inside, on their own. These are not wild birds that I am talking about. Pet birds are usually bred in cages. Their cages are their homes. They aren't too good for their home :-)


Oh, well since birds are basically just dogs with wings, it should be pretty much the same.

...I guess.
 
2012-07-14 09:06:15 PM  
We've never crated, not keen on it at all. We've always thought of our dogs as our children, just fur covered. I wouldn't lock a child in a crate--so the house is the crate, the house is the safe area, the comfort zone.
 
2012-07-14 09:07:37 PM  
The actual headline sums up how I felt about then 20 years ago when someone was describing this new ,crate, thing. He was describing a cage and no matter how much you call it a crate it will always be a cage.
 
2012-07-14 09:07:42 PM  
In their new book "Dogs Hate Crates: How Abusive Crate Training Hurts Dogs, Families & Society," Ray and Emma Lincoln discuss in detail the detrimental effects of crating on dogs' well-being.

Just human society? Why leave out alien societies?
 
2012-07-14 09:08:00 PM  
PETA: pfffft. Unfortunately, many dogs end up in the pound because they chew up the furniture, shiat all over the house, bark incessantly, and exhibit other separation anxiety/antisocial behaviors when their owners are at work. Other dogs are simply left outside in a back yard to become lonely, unsocialized, and aggressively territorial (assuming they don't Houdini out and roam freely or get hit by cars). Shelters are filled with dogs whose only crime was that their owners couldn't bring themselves to put their dog in a crate.

I've never had a bad dog; crate-training is part of the free ride (food, vet, walks, snuggles, toys, random praise) they get when they choose to join my household. For that matter, I don't think I've ever chosen a dog. They seem to choose me. Nobody has ever biatched about the crate. Everybody knows what's expected, no surprises in the routine.
 
2012-07-14 09:09:14 PM  
the dog likes the small area if it isn't locked into it. i thought the belief was you point the on end box or cage toward the room door or open area of the room. the dog is in its protection area and can rest knowing it can be alerted if something weird happens. i swear to gosh the dog my brother and i had when we were little kids was happiest when she was resting in her box between our 2 beds watching us and our bedroom door at night.
 
2012-07-14 09:10:54 PM  

SeedFreak: We've never crated, not keen on it at all. We've always thought of our dogs as our children, just fur covered. I wouldn't lock a child in a crate--so the house is the crate, the house is the safe area, the comfort zone.


So do you take your kids to the curb for a crap, then?
 
2012-07-14 09:11:05 PM  

SeedFreak: We've never crated, not keen on it at all. We've always thought of our dogs as our children, just fur covered. I wouldn't lock a child in a crate--so the house is the crate, the house is the safe area, the comfort zone.


That's funny. I think of children as poorly-mannered dogs with no fur, and think they should be crated 24/7.

It takes all kinds, I guess.

/Except for your smelly children.
//Crate them, please.
 
2012-07-14 09:11:39 PM  
Bah, SMACKING your dog is the only way to train it...PERIOD.

Thousands of years of domestication has proven it.
 
2012-07-14 09:12:29 PM  
If you have to keep a social animal like a dog in a cage all the time, maybe you're not social enough (among other things) to have a dog. Get some fish instead. They don't bark or drool and they almost never leave the glass box with all the water in it.
 
2012-07-14 09:12:51 PM  
When my family moved from California to Utah, back in the Sixties, we somehow got talked into shipping our dog in a crate, by rail. The rail company lost her. After my father walked with a guy through the rail yard in the baking summer sun, we finally found her rail car. She was dehydrated, but otherwise okay. Never ship your dog.
 
2012-07-14 09:15:36 PM  
That was retarded. I honestly believe the article writer and the people behind "dog psychology" are mentally retarded. At the very least they're on the same level as psychics.
 
2012-07-14 09:15:49 PM  
It's a DOG. They will get over it. Of course they don't like to be crated but it's not torture.
 
2012-07-14 09:15:53 PM  

WordyGrrl: If you have to keep a social animal like a dog in a cage all the time, maybe you're not social enough (among other things) to have a dog. Get some fish instead. They don't bark or drool and they almost never leave the glass box with all the water in it.


Who ever said anything about leaving a dog in a crate all the time? Proper crate training is a tool to help socialize dogs to live with humans.*


*humans who don't like to come home from work to the smell of dog p*ss in their carpet
 
2012-07-14 09:17:39 PM  
Oh it's PETA. They're all retarded. Go back to comparing eating chicken to the holocaust.

And murdering dogs. You know, because PETA murders 95% of the pets that go into its care.
 
2012-07-14 09:18:14 PM  

itsajungleboy: It's a DOG. They will get over it. Of course they don't like to be crated but it's not torture.


You're clearly a MONSTER.

How dare you suggest a dog is a PET.
 
2012-07-14 09:18:21 PM  
I'm getting a kick out of this article, because I read it while sitting next to my dog in her crate with the door open.
 
2012-07-14 09:18:35 PM  
I haven't had dogs since I was a kid. Somehow back then though we managed to have dogs without keeping them in cages.
 
2012-07-14 09:18:50 PM  
Others will say, "But my dog loves his crate!" This statement defies logic. No animal on Earth "loves" to be caged. However, dogs do love people and will tolerate almost anything that their guardians force them to endure. According to some experts, dogs who appear to "love" their crate because they keep running back to it are often really exhibiting a lack of self-confidence or even fearfulness toward the outside world brought on by the extreme confinement and isolation of a crate.

Uh. No.

My dogs don't fearfully "run back" to their crate. I've seen them wake up, wander over to their crate, and lay down in it and go back to sleep, just because they feel like sleeping there.
I don't keep a crate set up now since they're older, and it takes up too much room anyway, but when I used to crate them at night you could tell when they were ready for bed because I'd look around, realize they were nowhere to be seen, and go find them asleep in their crate for the night. Just like kids, dogs are more relaxed with a regular routine and will seek out a place of their own.

Yes, you can make your dog miserable in a crate. No you shouldn't leave them in there for extended periods of time. If you work long hours, consider a dog sitter, or a large secure outdoor kennel, or just not having a dog altogether.
But dogs SHOULD learn to accept and be comfortable in a crate at some point. Otherwise what happens if you need to transport by crate at some point? Do you want the first time they are in one to be then? If they are already comfortable with a crate, then if they have to be transported in a new environment, with new sounds and smells, the crate is at least something they can feel safe in because they recognize it.
Your dog also likely will have to be caged at the vet at some point, so it's much easier both on them and the vet if the dog recognizes a cage, or has been taught to tolerate an enclosed area.
 
2012-07-14 09:19:29 PM  
I have two dogs. Riker didn't need his crate once he was 5 months old. Dumb as a box of rocks, but he is great at not chewing and is house trained. Torres, on the other hand, still chews like a fiend when I am gone and she is a little over a year old. She also chews when I am home, but I am able to supervise and redirect her to appropriate doggy items. Her latest victims have been pillows -- she had torn apart almost every pillow in my house.
That being said, I think a crate is a great training tool when used appropriately. My dogs get plenty of exercise and training, aren't crated when I am home or at night, and don't have behavioral issues (besides the chewing). Torres does love her crate -- she took a nap in there this afternoon all on her own accord, with the door wide open. I practice not crating her for short times when I am away, and often she hangs in her crate anyway even though I leave the door open.
Yes, a lot of people don't use crates appropriately. Heck, a lot of people don't own dogs appropriately. They need a TON of exercise and care, and the possibilities for things to go wrong when those needs aren't addressed are endless. But to make blanket statements like 'Crates are evil' doesn't help.
 
2012-07-14 09:19:56 PM  
Tried crating my llhasa apso but the damn dog cried all night for many nights. Eventually gave up and relinquished to kicking him several times a night in bed when he'd lay on my legs. Godspeed Mugsy.
 
2012-07-14 09:19:58 PM  
1) isn't a house just a big crate? For shame, locking your poor doggie inside a house all day. Prison!!! (Basically, we must agree, keeping them contained inside something is wrong. All we argue about is the square footage of that container.)
2) leaving a dog alone in a crate for 18 hours is wrong. If you can't spend more time with your pet than that, get a pet rock. Buy goldfish. A dog needs socialization, interaction, activity.
3) Buy the right size crate. Don't save a few bucks, thinking that "the dog won't care"... yes, they will. Spend a bit, cheap-o, and get a large, comfortable crate they can stand up in, turn around, lay out, etc..
4) As I write this, one dog is asleep in her crate beside me, the other on the kitchen floor.
5) Leaving your dog alone "outside" also has inherent dangers. Sunburn/Heatstroke. Rattlesnakes. Wasp/bees/hornets/Spiders/Scorpions/Fire ants. Ingestion of poisons/plants lining your yard. If the dog is small enough, Raptors. (not velociraptors, just plain old hawks and such).
6) Written by PETA. I would rather believe my Tea Party neighbor than believe a PETA hypocrite.
 
2012-07-14 09:19:58 PM  
This article brought to you by PETA, who complain about crating dogs and yet have no problems killing them outright when they collect a few off the streets.

Any responsible dog owner who uses crates should know that the purpose of a crate is not to lock up the dog. It is supposed to be used like a doghouse and you teach your dog to use it as such. Our two dogs are crate trained, but we stopped using them when our puppy got big enough to start wanting in the bigger dog's crate, which caused some ownership issues. We didn't bother with doors, they just prefer sleeping in them, and we only shut them inside when they were going to the vet.

It's too bad they started fighting over the big (relative term when talking about shelties) dog's crate, because we stacked them on top of each other and the little one would jump into hers when she wanted in. It was pretty cute.
 
2012-07-14 09:21:17 PM  
I have a crate for my Golden Retriever. I don't close the door to his crate, but most days when I come home, he's asleep in his crate. Usually with one of my shoes, a belt, or the TV remote in the crate with him.
 
2012-07-14 09:22:26 PM  
I should have known it was written by someone a People Eating Tasty Animals.
 
2012-07-14 09:22:35 PM  
One of my huskies has free reign to half the house and the backyard while I'm gone at work. The other, a new rescue male who is still hyperactive and prone to wanting to chew on things he isn't supposed to, goes to his crate while I'm gone at work.

He is used to the routine. I've worked from home and he still does the same thing even if I'm there (goes in the crate and sleeps). I hate the idea of the crate, but 1.) He's known it all his life and doesn't have a problem with it 2.) It is NEVER used as punishment 3.) Since quitting my job isn't an option, this is the best shot this little guy has at a happy life, as few would be so tolerant of this handful of energy and he'd likely find himself on death row at the pound.

In short, it's a win/win for now -- and I can come home to still having nice things.
 
2012-07-14 09:23:24 PM  
Obama likes his dog free-range.
 
2012-07-14 09:23:54 PM  
Sure, a crate by itself is cold and inhumane.

But when lovingly adorned with bits of sanctimonious, erstwhile guest newspaper columnists, it becomes the cozy, homey den my dog knows and loves.
 
2012-07-14 09:24:51 PM  

SeedFreak: We've never crated, not keen on it at all. We've always thought of our dogs as our children, just fur covered. I wouldn't lock a child in a crate--so the house is the crate, the house is the safe area, the comfort zone.


blogs.babble.com
 
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