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(LA Times)   "This will bring fundamental changes, it makes you wonder a little more if you want to whip out the plastic. Maybe people will go to the ATM and use cash like they did 35 years ago." Oh, you're serious, let me laugh even harder   (latimes.com) divider line 143
    More: Obvious, profit center, Rite Aid, hidden taxes, surcharges, laughters, credit cards  
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17444 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2012 at 3:39 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-14 11:45:02 AM  
Visa and MasterCard, on the other hand, said the settlement could raise the cost of using credit cards for many consumers ...

Because right now that 29% you're paying on your Capital One card is such a bargain

/I'm all for it if it cuts down on the number of people whipping out the AmEx to buy a Snickers bar and a Big Gulp
 
2012-07-14 11:52:57 AM  

jj325: /I'm all for it if it cuts down on the number of people whipping out the AmEx to buy a Snickers bar and a Big Gulp


If you're paying down your entire card balance each month, why do you care?
 
2012-07-14 12:50:58 PM  

jj325:
/I'm all for it if it cuts down on the number of people whipping out the AmEx to buy a Snickers bar and a Big Gulp


Would you rather they counted out their change reeaaaally slowly in front of you?
 
2012-07-14 01:50:46 PM  
Oh good. Because a return to coin purses and checks will be awesomely convenient.
 
2012-07-14 02:10:32 PM  
I usually mock the "the invisible hand of the free market will fix this" folks but I'm thinking this is one of those times that it's true.

Sooner or later someone will notice that by not doing the stupid fees they'll draw a shiat-ton more business. And when they do, everyone else will follow suit. And then it will just be normal again.
 
2012-07-14 02:13:53 PM  
FTFA:

Visa and MasterCard agreed for the first time to allow merchants to pass along credit-card charges to consumers instead of having to shoulder them themselves. That could eliminate any incentive for merchants to give discounts to buyers who pay in cash.

And then a little later:

It could create a two-tiered pricing system in which merchants try to attract customers by offering one price to those who pay with credit cards but a slightly discounted price for cash payments.

Wat
 
2012-07-14 02:35:39 PM  

platedlizard: FTFA:

Visa and MasterCard agreed for the first time to allow merchants to pass along credit-card charges to consumers instead of having to shoulder them themselves. That could eliminate any incentive for merchants to give discounts to buyers who pay in cash.

And then a little later:

It could create a two-tiered pricing system in which merchants try to attract customers by offering one price to those who pay with credit cards but a slightly discounted price for cash payments.

Wat


Apparently people think that "cash discount" is substantially different from "surcharge for credit card use". I suspect these people get scammed at liquidation sales a lot.
 
2012-07-14 02:35:46 PM  
A lot of places are already doing this now. Ever seen the cash/credit prices at the gas pump? We are doing this where we work, we offer a cash discount vs our 'normal price' which is the inflated price with the credit card fee. Retailers get around it by calling the retail price with the cc fee the "normal price" while calling the discounted price a "cash discount".

What is interesting is the part where it says this might enable retailers to force visa/mc/et.al to do away with the fees altogether. I could see companies STILL charging the 2% but just pocketing the money.
 
2012-07-14 02:45:40 PM  

jj325: Visa and MasterCard, on the other hand, said the settlement could raise the cost of using credit cards for many consumers ...

Because right now that 29% you're paying on your Capital One card is such a bargain

/I'm all for it if it cuts down on the number of people whipping out the AmEx to buy a Snickers bar and a Big Gulp


I'm not a liberal so I don't really give a shiat how people pay for their Snickers bar and Big Gulps. Nice to know this is what keeps you up a night.
 
2012-07-14 03:41:39 PM  

if you want to whip out the plastic.


'Scuse me while I whip this out.
 
2012-07-14 03:43:58 PM  
But ATM fees also are around, especially if you are in an area that isn't served by your bank. Direct deposit is required by many employers. This makes it even harder to access your own money.
 
2012-07-14 03:45:52 PM  

jj325: Visa and MasterCard, on the other hand, said the settlement could raise the cost of using credit cards for many consumers ...

Because right now that 29% you're paying on your Capital One card is such a bargain

/I'm all for it if it cuts down on the number of people whipping out the AmEx to buy a Snickers bar and a Big Gulp


Well, I'd never buy a Big Gulp, but that does pretty much sum up my AmEx habit...

\AmEx Blue card is the best
\\no annual fees
\\\we pay off the balance each and every month, so interest-free, too
\\\\we get about $800/year back in cash just by using a card that costs us nothing in fees/interest
 
2012-07-14 03:48:42 PM  

unlikely: I usually mock the "the invisible hand of the free market will fix this" folks but I'm thinking this is one of those times that it's true.


It's true in cases of markets that are at least somewhat free. That's why it's so easy to mock. In so many cases when that excuse is trotted out, an excuse is all it is.
 
2012-07-14 03:48:47 PM  

downstairs: jj325: /I'm all for it if it cuts down on the number of people whipping out the AmEx to buy a Snickers bar and a Big Gulp

If you're paying down your entire card balance each month, why do you care?


They also take a cut of the sales price, which is money that isn't staying with the local merchant. That's why I don't use plastic; to keep money I spend with local merchants from being siphoned out of the local economy. Also, many local businesses here in Madison offer a cash discount for that very reason. I know of at least one bar on Willy St. that only takes cash.
 
2012-07-14 03:49:03 PM  
"Visa and MasterCard agreed for the first time to allow merchants to pass along credit-card charges to consumers instead of having to shoulder them themselves."

Umm, no.

Merchants have always passed along these charges to consumers as part of their pricing. Just because it wasn't broken out before doesn't mean that the merchants were generously covering the cost for their customers.

Stupid article is trying to say "This ruling changes things. But in California, that change isn't allowed. So things will change." Huh?
 
2012-07-14 03:50:48 PM  

Lsherm: jj325: Visa and MasterCard, on the other hand, said the settlement could raise the cost of using credit cards for many consumers ...

Because right now that 29% you're paying on your Capital One card is such a bargain

/I'm all for it if it cuts down on the number of people whipping out the AmEx to buy a Snickers bar and a Big Gulp

I'm not a liberal so I don't really give a shiat how people pay for their Snickers bar and Big Gulps. Nice to know this is what keeps you up a night.


...and herpderp enters the thread early. Go troll the Politics tab, Trolly McTrollerstein.
 
2012-07-14 03:51:12 PM  

Perducci: "Visa and MasterCard agreed for the first time to allow merchants to pass along credit-card charges to consumers instead of having to shoulder them themselves."

Umm, no.


Well it sounds a lot better than "we stopped threatening merchants with taking away their ability to take credit cards if they told their customers they were getting screwed" so that's what they went with.
 
2012-07-14 03:52:03 PM  
Meh, i use a debit card instead of a credit card. No extra charges.

/suck it banks
 
2012-07-14 03:52:20 PM  
Really, your lives are so important that counting out cash is too much of a time waster?....Who programmed your silly little brain?

Cash is cheaper, easier to use and hard to spend what is not in your pocket.
 
2012-07-14 03:53:02 PM  
I just steal all the shiat I want so I don't pay anything, suckers.
 
2012-07-14 03:53:47 PM  

unlikely: I usually mock the "the invisible hand of the free market will fix this" folks but I'm thinking this is one of those times that it's true.

Sooner or later someone will notice that by not doing the stupid fees they'll draw a shiat-ton more business. And when they do, everyone else will follow suit. And then it will just be normal again.


The issue at hand is that Visa, MC, AmEx, and Discover (I'm assuming all 4 anyway) took advantage of their monopoly and colluded to keep the surcharge higher than necessary to pocket extra money. In order for someone to stop doing this so they can undercut, one of them needs to break the collusion (yeah, right) or someone needs to start their own credit card company, which entails getting merchants to accept this un-tested card. It seems like Discover has just recently become popular enough to be used almost everywhere (but it's still not as popular as Visa or MC) and I still don't see too many places that take AmEx. A new card won't stand a chance unless it can start local and survive 20 years slowly gaining acceptance.

/I suspect that, whatever happens, we'll all be standing in line bent over...and there will be no lube in sight.
 
2012-07-14 03:54:06 PM  
'ATM and use cash like they did 35 years ago'

ATMs in 1977? I don't think so Tim. We had to go in with a little paper passbook and visit the teller.
 
2012-07-14 03:55:26 PM  
Tax cuts for the rich will eliminate these market distortions.
 
2012-07-14 03:57:26 PM  
Lsherm
I'm not a liberal so I don't really give a shiat how people pay for their Snickers bar and Big Gulps. Nice to know this is what keeps you up a night.

Stand in line behind 5 people waiting for a remote system to process their $3.28 transaction over dial-up and then say that again.
 
2012-07-14 03:58:30 PM  

BSABSVR: Oh good. Because a return to coin purses and checks will be awesomely convenient.


Just carry around a sack of chickens and use them to barter for goods with. You can grow your own money and have fun haggling with shopkeeps and hospital radiology specialists.
 
2012-07-14 03:59:07 PM  

SweetDickens: Really, your lives are so important that counting out cash is too much of a time waster?....Who programmed your silly little brain?

Cash is cheaper, easier to use and hard to spend what is not in your pocket.


I would think you'd be more concerned about productively using what little amount of time you have left, gramps.
 
2012-07-14 03:59:08 PM  

SweetDickens: Really, your lives are so important that counting out cash is too much of a time waster?....Who programmed your silly little brain?

Cash is cheaper, easier to use and hard to spend what is not in your pocket.


Actually we should return to checks. Id LOVE to be in the express checkout behind a ninja drifter trying to buy 87 snack packs with a check from the bank of Tehran and no ID. Or something.
 
2012-07-14 03:59:41 PM  
Yes, there were ATMs in 1977. That was my senior year in high school, and the first ATM in town had a smoked-plexiglass cover over the keypad and screen. You swiped your card and the cover slid open. It was all very James Bond and we used to get cash just to watch the cover open. No fee, too.
 
2012-07-14 03:59:56 PM  

dg41: But ATM fees also are around, especially if you are in an area that isn't served by your bank. Direct deposit is required by many employers. This makes it even harder to access your own money.


I get around it by going to a food store and buying a snicker and getting $50 over.
 
2012-07-14 04:01:39 PM  
What impact will this have on consumers? Just bend me over and fark me slowly.
 
2012-07-14 04:04:49 PM  
I only shop at places that take Google wallet. I'll admit, you have to be creative when you're limited to Home Depot, CVS, Rite Aid, Sunoco and 7-11.
 
2012-07-14 04:04:55 PM  

SweetDickens:
Cash is cheaper, easier to use and hard to spend what is not in your pocket.


1. You have no recourse if your cash is stolen.
2. Going to the ATM all the time is a PITA.
3. No cash-back rewards for paying with cash.
 
2012-07-14 04:05:20 PM  
Credit card companies ripping people off?

images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-07-14 04:07:08 PM  
I was in a small restaurant that had the "we accept Visa" on their door. When I went to pay,they said it was a $20 minimum and my bill was $12. (That was not posted anywhere in plain sight.)

Now I know minimums are in violation of their contract with Visa,but then I offered to go and find a ATM to get the cash they wanted. They "let me slide."

Still some place do that and give "bank charges" as a reason.
 
2012-07-14 04:07:44 PM  

oldsbone: I still don't see too many places that take AmEx.


Just about every place we frequent here in Los Angeles takes AmEx. The notable exception is In-N-Out, but we'll forgive 'em since they're In-N-Out.

And 95% of the places we went to in Tucson also accepted AmEx.
 
2012-07-14 04:09:32 PM  
There was an era when what Visa and Mastercard did was so complex that they deserved a somewhat hefty fee. That time is long gone in an era of instant communications and advanced computers so cheap that everyone carries one around in their pocket.

Now days, there is no possible reason why they shouldn't just be getting a tiny flat transaction fee. Fifty cents per transaction would be too generous, really.

Fark that 2% of the total transaction amount noise. There is no possible way they deserve to leach that much money out of the economy daily.
 
2012-07-14 04:11:43 PM  

SweetDickens: Cash is cheaper, easier to use and hard to spend what is not in your pocket.


Cash takes longer, easier to steal and hard to recover what is stolen from your pocket.
 
2012-07-14 04:12:59 PM  
Ok, so if the surcharge is too much for the store to handle, how about not accepting credit cards, and going to cash only? Also, you don't have to report all the income, so you save on taxes too!
 
2012-07-14 04:13:09 PM  
Worse case: Everyone whips out a paper check and slowly writes (makes mistake, rewrites, forgets wants cash back................)
I don't understand paper check, how do they work.
 
2012-07-14 04:14:28 PM  

dg41: But ATM fees also are around, especially if you are in an area that isn't served by your bank. Direct deposit is required by many employers. This makes it even harder to access your own money.


USAA, yo. They refund your ATM fees.
 
2012-07-14 04:15:23 PM  

MAYORBOB: What impact will this have on consumers? Just bend me over and fark me slowly.


Well, it IS Saturday night. Dinner and movie first?
 
2012-07-14 04:17:02 PM  
Now I'm going to have start touching dirty old germ-ridden cash again?

DISGUSTING!!!!
 
2012-07-14 04:18:08 PM  

downstairs: jj325: /I'm all for it if it cuts down on the number of people whipping out the AmEx to buy a Snickers bar and a Big Gulp

If you're paying down your entire card balance each month, why do you care?


This.

I spend less than I earn so I always pay off my credit card bill. Discover gives me a penny to a nickel back for every buck I spend, which is more I get back than cash, so I always use credit unless I don't have a choice.

Now if the price for credit is higher than cash, I'll buy that snickers bar with my credit card, ask for couple hundred cash back, which still gives me the bonus, and then spend that cash on everything else I wish to buy.
 
2012-07-14 04:18:20 PM  
Live in California where everything else is less clear and screwed up, but yes, no so-called surcharges allowed. Still screwed somewhere, no doubt. Feels like it every morning.
 
2012-07-14 04:23:30 PM  

downstairs: jj325: /I'm all for it if it cuts down on the number of people whipping out the AmEx to buy a Snickers bar and a Big Gulp

If you're paying down your entire card balance each month, why do you care?


HAHAHA how do you think we all were able to eat during the unemployment caused by bankers in the '08-'11 unemployment crisis?

/Worked for a bank before unemployment and was hired by another one after unemployment so my credit can't be that bad. It will just take a few more years to pay down the balance.
 
2012-07-14 04:23:33 PM  
Oh god, do I really want to wait for the kid behind the register to figure out the change for my snickers and big gulp or do I want to just swipe my card and wait for 20 seconds? Hmm, decisions decision. Then while I'm waiting for the clerk to count my change and my wallet is stolen by the burglar impatiently waiting behind me, I'm sure I can just call the bank and tell them not to process the cash with those serial numbers. Wait, I'm not sure that's how that works.
 
2012-07-14 04:24:57 PM  
I'll just go ahead and say this: Don't use a farking credit card. Debit cards are good, it's from your account using your money. If you don't have the money you don't need it.

The credit card companies have created a system where you think you need credit cards over debit or cash. And from this system, they can charge the stores 2% of purchases when you buy with credit cards, and THEN, they tack on the interest to your purchase so they make money on both ends. When you use a credit card the ultimate winner is the credit card company, no one else.

As for those who say "I pay my credit cards off every month so I don't pay interest." That's awesome, but your job is not secured. Your boss can say two words to you and you're out of a job (You're fired, Good bye, peace out) and with no income you're not going to make those payment and then when you do get another job, you're going to be paying off the card debt plus interest.

The only debts you should really ever take on are car loans, mortgages and student loans. Going into debt with a credit card to buy groceries when you have more money than that in the bank is retarded.
 
2012-07-14 04:25:59 PM  

BSABSVR: Apparently people think that "cash discount" is substantially different from "surcharge for credit card use". I suspect these people get scammed at liquidation sales a lot.


There was one of those being advertised on the radio just a few minutes ago.

"Several companies have filed for bankruptcy! Resellers have authorized us to sell it all! All items are below auction prices!" And then onto the minute-long list of items and their as-low-as prices. And people will fill the place up. 'Several companies?'... oh yea, I heard about them on the news I think. 'Authorized resellers', huh? Below 'auction prices?' What is 'below an auction price' even mean?

There was another I remember from yesterday...
"Credit card companies have been bailed out for billions and need to clear their books. The government has rewritten credit card company's rules. Now it's your turn to take advantage of their misfortune. We here at Whatevercredit will help you.... etc etc. "

Misleading advertising full of indisputable facts for the win.
 
2012-07-14 04:27:10 PM  

FizixJunkee: SweetDickens:
Cash is cheaper, easier to use and hard to spend what is not in your pocket.

1. You have no recourse if your cash is stolen.
2. Going to the ATM all the time is a PITA.
3. No cash-back rewards for paying with cash.



(3) well... except change
 
2012-07-14 04:27:55 PM  

BullBearMS: There was an era when what Visa and Mastercard did was so complex that they deserved a somewhat hefty fee. That time is long gone in an era of instant communications and advanced computers so cheap that everyone carries one around in their pocket.

Now days, there is no possible reason why they shouldn't just be getting a tiny flat transaction fee. Fifty cents per transaction would be too generous, really.

Fark that 2% of the total transaction amount noise. There is no possible way they deserve to leach that much money out of the economy daily.


Computers are doing all the work and there is no surcharge for the ether that fills the net. The call centers are outsourced and whatever account fees you have should more than cover the costs.

I want to know why the system hasn't upgraded to make electronic money payments free, instant, and secure. There is no reason that plastic shouldn't work better and faster than cash.
 
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