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(Sly Oyster)   If the cops stop the Google driverless car for a moving violation does the car go all HAL 9000 and refuse to pull over? Who gets the ticket? So many unanswered questions   (slyoyster.com) divider line 75
    More: Interesting, moving violation, hal, Google  
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8416 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2012 at 2:51 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-14 05:11:21 PM
And as far as "being more efficient", electronic cars will fail at that, unless they're willing to take the same risks drivers do, e.g., getting from 279 to 376 into the Fort Pitt Tunnel. It'll take one look at the traffic and see no 2 second gap between vehicles and go the long way around, or stop and wait for 10pm when traffic clears up.
 
2012-07-14 05:13:50 PM
The important question is, who gets tazed?
 
2012-07-14 05:32:40 PM

downstairs: Wow, that was quite an in depth article. Luckily, they linked to their source article that had all of zero words.


one of the commenters was berating the "journalist" for that too.
 
2012-07-14 05:51:25 PM

etherknot: The officer uses the license and tickets the registered owner of the car for performing an Illegal operation and the car gets shut down.


I see what you did there.
 
2012-07-14 06:28:04 PM

farkingnotworking: NorKnOAd: The entire article:
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Well, this presents an interesting dilemma. What happens when police pull over a car driven by a computer, as the case maybe in Washington, D.C.? I can't really find any news stories about this incident, but I would love to hear what the hell the cops had to say and what the human passenger had to say and if the Google car ended up going all HAL9000 on the police and refused to pull over. So many questions!
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Yes, so many questions.

And I really appreciate the minimal effort subby put in to transform it into a witty headline. I usually have to consult one of my students for that level of laziness. Nice work everyone!


This obviously must be subby's website and posted it so all us dumbshiarts click his link and enrichen him through adsense....
 
2012-07-14 06:36:20 PM

HoratioGates: Ennuipoet: If you spend the evening at the bar, get well and truly liquored up and then take your self driving car through a DUI checkpoint (with you lolling in the passenger seat) is that a DUI? I suspect you would still get charged.

Coming home from the bar is the only reason I can see for a self driving car.

What about a car that meets you at the door when you walk out of work, or that lets you take a nap on a cross country drive, or that goes and parks itself after dropping you off at the mall, or that drives people who usually can't drive around (epileptics, blind people, etc.) Or how about one that lets you deal with the screaming kid in the back seat, or that picks your kids up after school? How about a long haul freight truck that doesn't need a driver? Or vehicles that can drive close enough to other self-driving vehicles on the highway to take advantage of drafting (which can save huge amounts of fuel!) Or taxi cabs that you flag down with your phone that accept your credit card and let you click on a map, all without a driver? Same for buses. How about when you need to get to the hospital and you are too sick to drive but not sick enough for an ambulance? How about to pick your parents up from the airport at 3 am? Cop cars that let the cop driving pay attention to what's going on on the sidewalks instead of just the road (since as the bugs get worked out things like tickets will be much less of a priority.) How about specially designed delivery trucks with separate PIN locked compartments that call you and let you know they are about to make a delivery to where you are. You go out, see a light blinking over one compartment, enter the PIN you've been messaged, open it up and get your Amazon purchase, or that sweater from your grandma, or maybe even a pizza you ordered (and the delivery truck doesn't expect to be tipped.) How about a car that drives by the distraction on the side of the road without rubbernecking? (You can still rubberneck, bu ...


I want to 'smart' this twice.


Goimir: Does the self-driving car look through the windshield of the car in front of it? Does it see treetops swaying and slow down/correct when you hit the cross-winds on the bridge? Will it back off an uncovered dump truck launching gravel at you? Does it know not to take railroad grades at the most commonly traveled path? Will it run offset in the lane during rain? Does it know how slick the road will be during the first five minutes of the first rainstorm in over a week? Will it speed up to avoid a collision? Does it know the difference between a windblown plastic bag, a squirrel, a dog, and a child and the proper respective responses of ignore, ignore if inconvenient, avoid if not dangerous, and ditch if necessary? Does it know that a ball is likely to be followed by a child?


Yes.
 
2012-07-14 06:44:31 PM

Goimir: Does it see treetops swaying and slow down/correct when you hit the cross-winds on the bridge?


Those are some good hurdles you brought up that need to be addressed to get fully automated, but you sound crazy on this one, I have never had to use tree tops as a gauge on how much to compensate for wind
 
2012-07-14 06:52:07 PM

dmars: Goimir: Does it see treetops swaying and slow down/correct when you hit the cross-winds on the bridge?

Those are some good hurdles you brought up that need to be addressed to get fully automated, but you sound crazy on this one, I have never had to use tree tops as a gauge on how much to compensate for wind


There are a couple rock cuts on the PA turnpike that you emerge from into a field. You can easily go from no crosswind to a 30 mph crosswind, which is no fun in a Saturn.
 
2012-07-14 07:03:11 PM

Goimir: Does the self-driving car look through the windshield of the car in front of it? Does it see treetops swaying and slow down/correct when you hit the cross-winds on the bridge? Will it back off an uncovered dump truck launching gravel at you? Does it know not to take railroad grades at the most commonly traveled path? Will it run offset in the lane during rain? Does it know how slick the road will be during the first five minutes of the first rainstorm in over a week? Will it speed up to avoid a collision? Does it know the difference between a windblown plastic bag, a squirrel, a dog, and a child and the proper respective responses of ignore, ignore if inconvenient, avoid if not dangerous, and ditch if necessary? Does it know that a ball is likely to be followed by a child?


Even if a computer-controlled car only knows a third of these, that still puts it ahead of the average human driver.
 
2012-07-14 07:40:45 PM
Isn't not having a driver a moving violation?
 
2012-07-14 07:48:41 PM

jjorsett: It'd be great for blind people, and people unable to drive due to age .


will there be a large button marked Farmers Market?
 
2012-07-14 07:51:17 PM

ha-ha-guy: However there are all kinds of problems. Most of the self driving prototypes have massive trouble in construction zones where lanes are detoured. For example the local guys are doing some cold patching so they are oth there with a flagman and a truck, signalling you to use the shoulder to get around the cold patching operation. The current self driving cars go "Oh fark no,that's the shoulder, we don't drive there" and lock up. Basically self driving cars would force construction crews to spend more time setting up very clearly marked routes as opposed to having Bob stand there with the orange flag and gesture. In fact they'll often lock up even in long term detours because the cars will still detect the old lines that weren't completely painted over. So the car's computer sees old lines and new lines and has a fit. Basically we need a whole industry standard for construction detours as they relate to self driving cars and the DOTs aren't thrilled at that additional expense. Also a lot of side streets actually aren't painted and don't have curbs. That messes with the cars too in some cases.


make it identify a beacon and or cone, have flag guy stand behind that.
 
2012-07-14 08:06:42 PM

loonatic112358: ha-ha-guy: However there are all kinds of problems. Most of the self driving prototypes have massive trouble in construction zones where lanes are detoured. For example the local guys are doing some cold patching so they are oth there with a flagman and a truck, signalling you to use the shoulder to get around the cold patching operation. The current self driving cars go "Oh fark no,that's the shoulder, we don't drive there" and lock up. Basically self driving cars would force construction crews to spend more time setting up very clearly marked routes as opposed to having Bob stand there with the orange flag and gesture. In fact they'll often lock up even in long term detours because the cars will still detect the old lines that weren't completely painted over. So the car's computer sees old lines and new lines and has a fit. Basically we need a whole industry standard for construction detours as they relate to self driving cars and the DOTs aren't thrilled at that additional expense. Also a lot of side streets actually aren't painted and don't have curbs. That messes with the cars too in some cases.

make it identify a beacon and or cone, have flag guy stand behind that.


The future is some kind of RF type beacon that the car will follow that will denote the lane markers, I imagine. That makes redirecting a lane pretty easy
 
2012-07-14 08:31:36 PM

bhcompy: The future is some kind of RF type beacon that the car will follow that will denote the lane markers, I imagine. That makes redirecting a lane pretty easy


I think you still want it recognizing cones and barrels
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-07-14 08:33:47 PM
Atypical Person Reading Fark: Isn't not having a driver a moving violation?

In states that "allow" driverless cars, all cars must have drivers but they don't need to be actively controlling the car.

In other states the law doesn't explicitly punish not having a driver because nobody in power imagined a driverless car was possible. The most you could do was start a car moving and get out, and then you would clearly be guilty of reckless driving if the car hit somebody. It's not obviously reckless to launch robocar.
 
2012-07-14 08:41:04 PM
Have the cops pulled over a car, if the car does not pull over?
 
2012-07-14 08:44:19 PM

Naesen: So uh... what happens when the driver's wearing sunglasses?


We track chin and head movements as well (the act of your entire head moving to look elsewhere). Eyes are just the best way to be 100% foolproof. bhcompy
The future is some kind of RF type beacon that the car will follow that will denote the lane markers, I imagine. That makes redirecting a lane pretty easy

Paint visible on the IR spectrum only is the current idea. Night vision cameras in cars are normally just regular cameras with the IR filters removed to create a cheap night vision camera. So eventually roads and even other cars will be tagged with paint codes only the cameras can see. The cameras cost about 3 bucks each (less if you start buying massively bulk) and they're the cheapest way anyone can find.

loonatic112358: make it identify a beacon and or cone, have flag guy stand behind that.

So now every construction crew in all 50 states needs to get a specialized beacon and/or learn how to lay out the symbols so the computer knows what they mean (and if Bubba screws up the symbols and orders you to detour off the bridge and into the lake as opposed to over to the shoulder, we have a problem). We need the federal government to ram one standard down everyone's throat and they haven't yet. So it's not happening anytime soon.
 
2012-07-14 08:51:51 PM

loonatic112358: bhcompy: The future is some kind of RF type beacon that the car will follow that will denote the lane markers, I imagine. That makes redirecting a lane pretty easy

I think you still want it recognizing cones and barrels


We can easily recognize cones, barrels, and those Slow/Stop signs the guys use. It's having the car's computer "Oh okay they want me to go do the following detour...".

Simple example. The right lane in front of a strip mall is closed for about 100 yards. The construction workers are having you turn into the strip mall, drive down the length of its parking lot, and then turn back onto the road. Right now they put up a sign and point you into the strip mall. They assume you're smart enough to figure it out from there. To explain that to the car you need to create a "lane" for it the whole way down the parking lot. So that means the construction crew is laying cones, barrels, IR markers, whatever from one end of the parking lot to the other. The computer needs explicit directions saying "Turn in here, go down this row of markers, turn out here". Basically you can either spend the crew's time and the company's money to put those markers in place (the construction industry doesn't like that solution) or you have the car go "Alright, I can't figure this out. Hey driver earn your keep."

Of course we could develop an AI that figures all this out. However if we have something that complex:

1. Screw the low profit margin auto industry, we're unleashing that sucker on the stock market and getting rich.
2. We will never be able to export it due to American government controls on technology. We're aiming for a product we can sell globally, not just in the US 50.

/it's why we use cheap cameras with the IR filters removed as night vision systems, you can't export the good night vision cameras to China and we want to sell our systems over there
 
xcv
2012-07-14 08:59:05 PM

ha-ha-guy: So far in the first generation basically you lean over to get your coffee or fiddle with your radio. We detect your eyes aren't looking at the road ahead. Your hand drifts on the steering wheel abit and the car starts to slip out of its lane. The car detects all this and puts itself back in the center of the lane before you hit anyone. Car beeps angrily at you since sales won't let us use the onboard voice to say "Pay attention or start taking the bus, dumbass". DENSO has a production or near production ready model of that depending on how much you trust their sales reps.

The next step is when you pass the fark out. Sensors note you've passed out, are having a seizure, or are dead.



Cameras' face recognition technology fails to detect dark-skinned faces. Entire populations are unable to start their cars, whites are able to respond to comments about lack of being able to dance with retorts about being able to drive.
 
2012-07-14 11:09:15 PM
Skynet.
 
2012-07-14 11:21:57 PM
poot_rootbeer:

But if it doesn't know all of those it's not ahead of me. I hit one car in the last million miles because I doubted my ability to execute a bootleg turn (she came out of a parking lot about 100 feet in front of me, and rather than try to spin it around and possibly totaling my car against the trees on the side of the road, I ate her rear quarter panel). Give me a computer driven car that knows when to and can execute a bootleg and I'll buy it.
 
2012-07-14 11:47:42 PM

xcv: Cameras' face recognition technology fails to detect dark-skinned faces. Entire populations are unable to start their cars, whites are able to respond to comments about lack of being able to dance with retorts about being able to drive.


That only happens with the models using technology from Veridian Dynamics
 
2012-07-15 03:08:57 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Assuming that the only people who'd be able to afford a driverless car at the start would be the ultrarich, i'm going to go with "nobody gets a ticket, but the officer involved gets suspended"


With pay. Suspended with pay.
 
2012-07-15 07:18:14 AM

Ennuipoet: If you spend the evening at the bar, get well and truly liquored up and then take your self driving car through a DUI checkpoint (with you lolling in the passenger seat) is that a DUI? I suspect you would still get charged.


They'll get you for 'drunk in public'.
 
2012-07-15 06:48:16 PM

Goimir: There are a couple rock cuts on the PA turnpike that you emerge from into a field. You can easily go from no crosswind to a 30 mph crosswind, which is no fun in a Saturn.


Get a car, not a golfcart.
 
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