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(MSNBC)   Zimmerman tries to piss off his judge. Again   ( usnews.msnbc.msn.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, image file, martin case, Seminole County, recusals, NBC News, Dean Martin, legal risk  
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21793 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2012 at 9:30 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-14 04:55:24 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Has Zimmerman been able to prove what was suspicious about Martin yet?


According to the evidence, Martin didn't seemed perturbed by rain, which is something Zimmerman apparently found even more suspicious than the hoodie Martin used to take cover from the rain.
 
2012-07-14 04:55:51 PM  

Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin

t.qkme.me
 
2012-07-14 04:56:26 PM  

gimmegimme: Mrbogey: gimmegimme: Are you aware that Trayvon Martin died from a single gunshot wound to the chest fired from "intermediate range"? Does that count as an injury?

That's from after Martin assaulted Zimmerman. Stop trying to be obtuse. There were no injuries found on Martin consistent with Zimmerman assaulting him, trying to pin him, or anything of that sort. There were no grass stains on Martins clothes. There was no bruising to his face. Nothing. Nothing supports your assertion that Zimmerman asdsaulted Martin.

I'm planning on starting a barfight after I stalk my prey. I'm going to find the biggest guy in the biker bar and tell him that I just kicked over his Harley. How much injury must I sustain before I am allowed to shoot him in the chest from intermediate range?


The law states you can use deadly force to defend yourself if you reasonably believe the other party is going to kill you or inflict great bodily harm upon you. The fact that you "provoked" someone into fighting you because you said mean things to them may or may not matter. At worst (for you) it would mean you would be regarded as an aggressor, and that you would have had to try to escape before shooting him.

Neither of these rules have anything to do with "Stand Your Ground," as the Florida Statutes containing them have had this language for years.

Any more questions?
 
2012-07-14 04:56:31 PM  

404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]


I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.
 
2012-07-14 04:57:12 PM  

DancingElkCondor: The media has kept calling the drink "Iced Tea".....when the evidentiary photos of the crime scene clearly show it is a "watermelon" drink

The media is so hung up on Racial Stereotypes that they will not accurately report the drink Tray was carrying. Someone should tell the media, and some of the people posting here....white folks eat watermelon, too


One would think that the media not wasting time with irrelevant nonsense would be a good thing. Apparently, you consider it a conspiracy.

I can believe that Zimmerman might not have been motivated by racial prejudice, but I don't think I can say as much for his cheerleaders.
 
2012-07-14 04:58:03 PM  

vegasj: ParaHandy: So, in your morality, it's perfectly OK to hunt down and kill teenagers who get high?

Hunt down ? Really? Is that what he did now?

Because the evidence keeps showing me he was investigating a suspicious person in the area when he was attacked by that (possibly doped out) suspicious person.

Injuries, photos, statements, & lie tests .... and you poor Treyvon supporters STILL say Zimmerman "hunted down" and "gunned down" this poor, "innocent little child of color.

wow.


Yes, with all the facts revealed....the Trayvonistas still insist that "Trayvon was hunted down like an animal"

Now you know why in my Boobies in this thread I called the Tray supporters "retards". They proved my point.
 
2012-07-14 04:58:04 PM  

Fail in Human Form: 404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]

I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.


Why not?
 
2012-07-14 04:58:40 PM  

vegasj: Mrbogey: Do you have proof it's not a photoshopped pic?

Proof?...

but wait, there's MORE!

A save our skreets rally...

[moonbattery.com image 500x400]

oops...

[antzinpantz.com image 746x585]


What was the last post you've made that doesn't involve a black person? Have you EVER made one?
 
2012-07-14 04:58:40 PM  

Fail in Human Form: The injuries on Zimmerman and the lack of them on Martin seems to back up his story.


Well, if you aren't assuming, then I guess we can downgrade it to uninformed opinion until the trial. So far, my uninformed opinion is that injury is only evidence of an altercation taking place.
 
2012-07-14 04:58:41 PM  

gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: 404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]

I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.

Why not?


Because that happened after what we were discussing.
 
2012-07-14 04:59:19 PM  

gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: 404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]

I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.

Why not?


Because FARK YOU!

/inb4
 
2012-07-14 05:00:01 PM  

404 page not found: gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: 404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]

I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.

Why not?

Because FARK YOU!

/inb4


dammit.
 
2012-07-14 05:00:04 PM  

Fail in Human Form: gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: 404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]

I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.

Why not?

Because that happened after what we were discussing.


I would consider the gunshot that ends the fight part of the fight.
 
2012-07-14 05:00:50 PM  

MagSeven: vegasj: Mrbogey: Do you have proof it's not a photoshopped pic?

Proof?...

but wait, there's MORE!

A save our skreets rally...

[moonbattery.com image 500x400]

oops...

[antzinpantz.com image 746x585]

What was the last post you've made that doesn't involve a black person? Have you EVER made one?


This is a guy who used pictures of the G20 riots in Toronto as an example of a race riot.

To him, everything is black people's fault.
 
2012-07-14 05:00:57 PM  

gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: 404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]

I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.

Why not?

Because that happened after what we were discussing.

I would consider the gunshot that ends the fight part of the fight.


He was talking about who started the fight.
 
2012-07-14 05:02:26 PM  

Silly Jesus: 1. So Martin could have been assaulted first by Zimmerman and yet there are no bruises or abrasions or grass stains or black eyes or cuts or scrapes on Martin. Brilliant. Please do expand on this theory of yours...just how did Zimmerman assault Martin to the extent that he feared for his life (necessary to justify the injuries he inflicted on Zimmerman) while at the same time not leaving a single mark on him?


So Martin assaulted Zimmerman to within an inch of his life, and only got one small abrasion on his finger, yet you want to hang your hat on the fact that Zimmerman didn't have any injuries to his hands as proof that he didn't assault Martin. When Zimmerman slapped his GF there were most likely no marks on his hands. When Zimmerman assaulted the officer, there were most likely no injuries on his hands. Doesn't change the fact her assaulted both of them. If Zimmerman grabbed Martin to stop him from leaving, that alone would justify Martin beating the shiat out of Zimmerman. And it DAMN sure would trash your often repeated theory that the ONLY reason that Martin assaulted Zimmerman was because he was watching him from a distance.
 
2012-07-14 05:02:45 PM  

thamike: gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: 404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]

I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.

Why not?

Because that happened after what we were discussing.

I would consider the gunshot that ends the fight part of the fight.

He was talking about who started the fight.


I dunno...the armed guy who follows the other guy around in a car and then on foot is probably the guy who starts the fight.
 
2012-07-14 05:04:20 PM  

NightOwl2255: Silly Jesus: 1. So Martin could have been assaulted first by Zimmerman and yet there are no bruises or abrasions or grass stains or black eyes or cuts or scrapes on Martin. Brilliant. Please do expand on this theory of yours...just how did Zimmerman assault Martin to the extent that he feared for his life (necessary to justify the injuries he inflicted on Zimmerman) while at the same time not leaving a single mark on him?

So Martin assaulted Zimmerman to within an inch of his life, and only got one small abrasion on his finger, yet you want to hang your hat on the fact that Zimmerman didn't have any injuries to his hands as proof that he didn't assault Martin. When Zimmerman slapped his GF there were most likely no marks on his hands. When Zimmerman assaulted the officer, there were most likely no injuries on his hands. Doesn't change the fact her assaulted both of them. If Zimmerman grabbed Martin to stop him from leaving, that alone would justify Martin beating the shiat out of Zimmerman. And it DAMN sure would trash your often repeated theory that the ONLY reason that Martin assaulted Zimmerman was because he was watching him from a distance.


Whoa, whoa. Hey. Zimmerman's use of brain drugs and his extensive history of violence have NOTHING to do with this case and you should be ashamed for muddying the rhetorical waters. On the other hand, Trayvon's facebook postings are quite relevant and justify his being shot.
 
2012-07-14 05:05:11 PM  

DancingElkCondor: astouffer: The bottom line is had Zimmerman stayed in his car like 911 told him to and waited for actual police to show up this would have ended peacefully.

Yes...and the woman who got raped should not have worn those clothes People should not work at banks because they get robbed....and hey, Trayvon should have behaved in school and he would not have been capped.


Explain this last point in any coherent context. How did trouble in school, or his choice of beverage, or really any of the irrelevant details you guys seem to obsess over, impact the shooting one way or another.

/And I'm not even going to address your point about unnecessary confrontation == blaming a rape victim. I'm hoping that you posted that in a moment of thoughtlessness.
 
2012-07-14 05:06:10 PM  
And speaking of uninformed opinions, mine is that Zimmerman actively pursued this situation while Martin reacted unwisely to it. Also, I really hope there is something we don't know about that caused the prosecution to seek a 2nd degree murder charge in what looks like manslaughter and possibly a few lesser firearms/police obstruction charges tacked on.
 
2012-07-14 05:07:29 PM  

gimmegimme: I dunno...the armed guy who follows the other guy around in a car and then on foot is probably the guy who starts the fight.


I was just talking evidence or lack of evidence. I was trying to move away from assumptions.
 
2012-07-14 05:11:25 PM  

NightOwl2255: If Zimmerman grabbed Martin to stop him from leaving, that alone would justify Martin beating the shiat out of Zimmerman.


This is legally incorrect....which is the worst kind of incorrect.
 
2012-07-14 05:11:53 PM  

Bigger Leftist Intarweb Schlong: The more I see of the entitled alternate fantasy viewpoint this guy has, the more I'm convinced he did murder that kid in cold blood.

What a farking loon.


Hi there, what law school did you go to? Because you're talking about trial strategy - made by Zimmerman's lawyer, not Zimmerman - as if you know two farthings about what you're talking about.

But you don't.

You see, there is some evidence of bias from this judge. The judge was unusually harsh in the second bail hearing, especially since the judge knew this was a high profile case.

The lawyer is preserving the error for appeal. If they don't make this motion, and then object when the judge denies it, they will forever be barred from raising the issue on appeal.

Sit down, shut up, learn some stuff.

BTW: fun fact, the lawyer can file this motion even over Zimmerman's objections. Rule 4-1.2(a).
 
2012-07-14 05:11:59 PM  

gimmegimme: Whoa, whoa. Hey. Zimmerman's use of brain drugs and his extensive history of violence have NOTHING to do with this case and you should be ashamed for muddying the rhetorical waters. On the other hand, Trayvon's facebook postings are quite relevant and justify his being shot.


No, no, don't you know, all biatches and cops lie. There has been a conspiracy against Zimmerman for years.
 
2012-07-14 05:12:11 PM  
Mrbogey

Per your citation, his hands weren't tested for DNA. It states that his fingernails were tested and then divided them left and right (A and B). His hands themselves weren't tested. Your first link doesn't resolve, btw.



Yes, I see that now & don't have time to read through the whole report again, so I may have misunderstood that if there isn't other mention of his hands.

I'll just put the whole link here, if it doesn't work again, search for Trayvon Martin Autopsy Report: (I don't know why Fark keeps putting spaces in the link)

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/TR A YVON-MARTIN-AUTOPSY.pdf
 
2012-07-14 05:14:12 PM  

gimmegimme: NightOwl2255: Silly Jesus: 1. So Martin could have been assaulted first by Zimmerman and yet there are no bruises or abrasions or grass stains or black eyes or cuts or scrapes on Martin. Brilliant. Please do expand on this theory of yours...just how did Zimmerman assault Martin to the extent that he feared for his life (necessary to justify the injuries he inflicted on Zimmerman) while at the same time not leaving a single mark on him?

So Martin assaulted Zimmerman to within an inch of his life, and only got one small abrasion on his finger, yet you want to hang your hat on the fact that Zimmerman didn't have any injuries to his hands as proof that he didn't assault Martin. When Zimmerman slapped his GF there were most likely no marks on his hands. When Zimmerman assaulted the officer, there were most likely no injuries on his hands. Doesn't change the fact her assaulted both of them. If Zimmerman grabbed Martin to stop him from leaving, that alone would justify Martin beating the shiat out of Zimmerman. And it DAMN sure would trash your often repeated theory that the ONLY reason that Martin assaulted Zimmerman was because he was watching him from a distance.

Whoa, whoa. Hey. Zimmerman's use of brain drugs and his extensive history of violence have NOTHING to do with this case and you should be ashamed for muddying the rhetorical waters. On the other hand, Trayvon's facebook postings are quite relevant and justify his being shot.


nobody said Zimmermans history has no relevance.
 
2012-07-14 05:14:21 PM  

thamike: gimmegimme: I dunno...the armed guy who follows the other guy around in a car and then on foot is probably the guy who starts the fight.

I was just talking evidence or lack of evidence. I was trying to move away from assumptions.


That's fine. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman was armed and Martin was not. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman was following Martin. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman got out of his car to keep an eye on Martin instead of driving home, possibly to punch another woman and rub one out to a Golden Girls rerun while popping brain pills. (That last part is all speculation, I admit.)
 
2012-07-14 05:15:06 PM  

Mrtraveler01: vegasj: Because the evidence keeps showing me he was investigating a suspicious person in the area when he was attacked by that (possibly doped out) suspicious person.

What was suspicious about him exactly?

Has Zimmerman been able to prove what was suspicious about Martin yet?


Any person walking through my neighborhood that I don't recognize is suspicious. You see, unlike in New York, down in Florida people drive everywhere, and nobody walks. For a stranger to walk through a gated community is a very very odd thing and is immediately suspicious.
 
2012-07-14 05:16:19 PM  

Cataholic: This is legally incorrect....which is the worst kind of incorrect.


Zimmerman grabs Martin and tells him he's not leaving. Martin hits Zimmerman in the face, completely legal. Zimmerman falls down. As he's laying on the ground he reaches for his gun. Martin is now in fear for his life. He can legally beat Zimmerman to death.

Wanna try again?
 
2012-07-14 05:19:20 PM  

gimmegimme: That's fine. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman was armed and Martin was not. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman was following Martin. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman got out of his car to keep an eye on Martin instead of driving home


None of those are illegal. I see a lot of people claiming that GZ is guilty, but have not found one that is able to use the facts of the case to prove it. Speculations are fine in threads such as these but people are convicted of crimes based on evidence. What evidence can you point to that GZ committed the crime of 2nd degree murder?
 
2012-07-14 05:21:10 PM  

Mrbogey: gimmegimme: NightOwl2255: Silly Jesus: 1. So Martin could have been assaulted first by Zimmerman and yet there are no bruises or abrasions or grass stains or black eyes or cuts or scrapes on Martin. Brilliant. Please do expand on this theory of yours...just how did Zimmerman assault Martin to the extent that he feared for his life (necessary to justify the injuries he inflicted on Zimmerman) while at the same time not leaving a single mark on him?

So Martin assaulted Zimmerman to within an inch of his life, and only got one small abrasion on his finger, yet you want to hang your hat on the fact that Zimmerman didn't have any injuries to his hands as proof that he didn't assault Martin. When Zimmerman slapped his GF there were most likely no marks on his hands. When Zimmerman assaulted the officer, there were most likely no injuries on his hands. Doesn't change the fact her assaulted both of them. If Zimmerman grabbed Martin to stop him from leaving, that alone would justify Martin beating the shiat out of Zimmerman. And it DAMN sure would trash your often repeated theory that the ONLY reason that Martin assaulted Zimmerman was because he was watching him from a distance.

Whoa, whoa. Hey. Zimmerman's use of brain drugs and his extensive history of violence have NOTHING to do with this case and you should be ashamed for muddying the rhetorical waters. On the other hand, Trayvon's facebook postings are quite relevant and justify his being shot.

nobody said Zimmermans history has no relevance.


I agree. Trayvon Martin had no criminal record. George Zimmerman...well, this might take a while:

4. Zimmerman was carrying a 9 millimeter handgun. Martin was carrying a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea. [ABC News]

8. Zimmerman "was charged in July 2005 with resisting arrest with violence and battery on an officer. The charges appear to have been dropped." [Huffington Post]

9. Zimmerman called the police 46 times since 2004. [Daily Beast]

10. According to neighbors, Zimmerman was "fixated on crime and focused on young, black males." [Miami Herald]

11. Zimmerman "had been the subject of complaints by neighbors in his gated community for aggressive tactics" [Huffington Post]

20. Zimmerman was not a member of a registered Neighborhood Watch group. Zimmerman also violated basic Neighborhood Watch guidelines by carrying a weapon. [ABC News]

More:

It's unknown what was Zimmerman's job on Feb. 26, but what is known is that he took policing very seriously. He reenrolled in Seminole State College with the goal of becoming a cop in 2009 and was working toward an associate degree. Zimmerman last week was dropped by the school which said it acted because of safety issues for Zimmerman and other students.

Why would you take Zimmerman's word over that of Martin? (You know, aside from the fact that he was shot in the chest.)
 
2012-07-14 05:23:51 PM  

Silly Jesus: Benjimin_Dover: gimmegimme: Benjimin_Dover: I never said I cared one way or the other what either of these guys were doing that night. Reading comprehension failure is fail. The current point of discussion (if you read the bit the you even quoted) is not the shooting. In fact, when I go back and read it, I find nothing at all about the shooting. The point being discussed and specifically addressed is that a person bought some but not all the ingredients of some concoction that I have never heard of before. So to answer your question (as incompetent or misleading as it is): it has nothing to do with the shooting. It has to do with the discussion clearly racist justification for the shooting.

FTFY

That very well may be. I don't really know one way or the other. I don't know either of these people. I suspect that neither do you or anybody else in this thread. I will say that I am conflicted as I have dated a Hispanic and served with dozens of Hispanics in the Army. I have witnessed the depth of the bigotry that they are capable of. At the same time the leaders of minority communities tell us that minorities are incapable of racism. So which to believe...

But that all gets away from what was being talked about which was why somebody would not buy all the ingredients to some drink at the same location. That somebody doesn't have to be Martin.

I commend you on your attempt to divert me off point. Nice try. I don't hold it against you.

This is a really hard example...so be careful in following along.

I was making a cake one day. I looked in the kitchen and had all of the ingredients except for butter and eggs. I went to the store and bought butter and eggs, and when I got home I combined them with my other ingredients and baked a cake. You may ask, how in the world did you bake that cake when you didn't buy all of the ingredients at the same time and at the same location, I would say to you, it is the magic of cabinets and leftover items from previous usage.


I don't think they are going to admit to understanding that example if they couldn't understand what you said before when you explained it. It is a concept so basic, it is more likely that they do understand it but are being intentionally dense about it.
 
2012-07-14 05:25:45 PM  

gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: 404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]

I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.

Why not?

Because that happened after what we were discussing.

I would consider the gunshot that ends the fight part of the fight.


The issue is how the fight started and what happened during it. Not how it ended.
 
2012-07-14 05:30:32 PM  

consider this: gimmegimme: That's fine. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman was armed and Martin was not. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman was following Martin. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman got out of his car to keep an eye on Martin instead of driving home

None of those are illegal. I see a lot of people claiming that GZ is guilty, but have not found one that is able to use the facts of the case to prove it. Speculations are fine in threads such as these but people are convicted of crimes based on evidence. What evidence can you point to that GZ committed the crime of 2nd degree murder?


I am happy to let the real-life justice system determine what should happen in the case. I am just confused and repulsed by the people who claim that GZ is not guilty of doing anything wrong, but they cannot find the facts of the case to prove it. Look, it's fine to speculate in threads like these that Trayvon Martin was on his way home to make Skittle Heroin and to sell it on his Facebook page, but these kinds of people end up with a hole in their chests. What evidence can you point to that GZ did not start a fight that ended with him shooting a guy?
 
2012-07-14 05:32:39 PM  

Fail in Human Form: gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: 404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]

I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.

Why not?

Because that happened after what we were discussing.

I would consider the gunshot that ends the fight part of the fight.

The issue is how the fight started and what happened during it. Not how it ended.


Oh, that's easy. Martin noticed Zimmerman following him around in a car and told his girlfriend about it. Martin turned into a pedestrian area, so Zimmerman got out of his car to continue pursuit. After that, it becomes open to a little bit of interpretation. If it sounds like Zimmerman was acting like a cop, it's because he was. (Except he's not a cop.)
 
2012-07-14 05:32:50 PM  

gimmegimme: Zimmerman was not a member of a registered Neighborhood Watch group. Zimmerman also violated basic Neighborhood Watch guidelines by carrying a weapon.


So which is it? Regardless of whether or not GZ was or wasn't involved in a recognized neighborhood watch program is irrelevant to the events of that night. What's relevant is that he was legally carrying a firearm, which was his right to do.
 
2012-07-14 05:34:50 PM  

Amos Quito: Aside from grandstanding and showmanship, why would Lester assert that Zimmerman, who had complied with all orders to appear, say that he WOULD have run given the chance


Probably because the guy conspired to cover up a very large sum of money and committed perjury to do so, followed by the discovery that he failed to obey bail conditions and turn in his passport as required.

In fact, he went as far as turning in an invalid passport so as to retain his active one. I am pretty sure any reasonable person could only draw one conclusion from that. He was leaving his options open to flee if he didn't like the way things were going. Which is exactly why bail is set based on stated finances, and why the passports have to be surrendered, both parts of which he tried to circumvent.
 
2012-07-14 05:37:34 PM  

consider this: gimmegimme: Zimmerman was not a member of a registered Neighborhood Watch group. Zimmerman also violated basic Neighborhood Watch guidelines by carrying a weapon.

So which is it? Regardless of whether or not GZ was or wasn't involved in a recognized neighborhood watch program is irrelevant to the events of that night. What's relevant is that he was legally carrying a firearm, which was his right to do.


Yes, and Trayvon Martin was well within his rights to kill Zimmerman. Florida's Stand your Ground law clearly states that:

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1)He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(3)A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.


I agree with you that I wish Trayvon had been carrying a pistol. At least it would have given him a chance.
 
2012-07-14 05:38:19 PM  

NightOwl2255: Cataholic: This is legally incorrect....which is the worst kind of incorrect.

Zimmerman grabs Martin and tells him he's not leaving. Martin hits Zimmerman in the face, completely legal. Zimmerman falls down. As he's laying on the ground he reaches for his gun. Martin is now in fear for his life. He can legally beat Zimmerman to death.

Wanna try again?


You conveniently edited out your post which stated, "If Zimmerman grabbed Martin to stop him from leaving, that alone would justify Martin beating the shiat out of Zimmerman." You then proceeded to introduce facts not previously in evidence. Florida's self-defense statute says, "A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force." Someone grabbing you (assuming you reasonably believe they are not doing so lawfully) is sufficient for you to punch them...maybe even to knock them down. However, it would not in and of itself be sufficient to "beat the shiat" of of them. I do applaud your effort, though as you've raised a plausible scenario...just not one for which I believe there to be any supporting evidence.
 
2012-07-14 05:39:15 PM  

gimmegimme: That's fine. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman was armed and Martin was not. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman was following Martin. We have undeniable proof that Zimmerman got out of his car to keep an eye on Martin instead of driving home, possibly to punch another woman and rub one out to a Golden Girls rerun while popping brain pills. (That last part is all speculation, I admit.)


Yeah, Zimmerman's story is dubious at best. It's just that a bunch of people trying to jump to solid conclusions for their own motives make for a pointless debate.


1.bp.blogspot.com

/Yes, I am fully aware of where I am.
 
2012-07-14 05:39:41 PM  

gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: gimmegimme: Fail in Human Form: 404 page not found: Fail in Human Form: lack of them on Martin
[t.qkme.me image 310x201]

I'm not talking about the gunshot wound.

Why not?

Because that happened after what we were discussing.

I would consider the gunshot that ends the fight part of the fight.

The issue is how the fight started and what happened during it. Not how it ended.

Oh, that's easy. Martin noticed Zimmerman following him around in a car and told his girlfriend about it. Martin turned into a pedestrian area, so Zimmerman got out of his car to continue pursuit. After that, it becomes open to a little bit of interpretation. If it sounds like Zimmerman was acting like a cop, it's because he was. (Except he's not a cop.)


Nothing you listed there is illegal to do. Questionable judgement, sure, but not illegal. He wasn't acting like a cop, he wanted to know wtf was going on.
 
2012-07-14 05:40:05 PM  

Splenda: I hope this has been mentioned before now, but yes, Zimmerman did lie. He lied by saying that he was "pretty much broke," when he knowingly had ~$130k in various accounts due to the paypal thing. He surrendered his first passport as a condition of being released on bail, but did not surrender his 2nd passport (and did not mention it). In addition, his wife did some pretty shady shiz. You know how supposedly the government doesn't keep track of bank transactions over $10k? She made a bunch of transfers from the paypal account to his bank account to her bank account all for various amounts just under $10k. She also lied on the stand directly about their finances.


ALL LIES! IT WAS ALL PURPLETRATED BY FUTURE CRIP LEADER TRAYVON JR, THE ILLAJITAMITE KID TRAYVON HAD WHEN HE WAS 5, BACK FROM THE FUTURE WITH OBAMA'S TIME MASHEEN THAT HE USED TO ALTOR HIS KENYAN BIRTH RECORDS THAT RUNS ON THE BLOOD OF WHITE CHRISTIAN BABIES.
 
2012-07-14 05:41:25 PM  

Silly Jesus: Martin, a fit, high school athlete, took off running around the corner of the building. Zimmerman lost sight of him and ran/jogged to the corner of the building to attempt to regain sight of Martin. If Martin had continued to run to his apartment, which he could have easily reached, they never would have come into contact that night.


he was not only close, but was actually in line of sight of his door.
that being said, if some unknown but obviously aggressive stranger is running after you, would you lead them right to where you lived, or would you try to hide until they left? close call. people could easily go either way.

there is likely a very good reason zim continued to hunt martin - he suspected martin was hiding close by, and said as much on the 911 call. he also clearly intended to continue to hunt him for some period of time, and to NOT go back to his truck - which he also alluded to on the 911 call.

it takes no real stretch to understand how martin came to hide, and how zimmerman came to find him. i don;t understand why people try to make it so complicated.
 
2012-07-14 05:41:47 PM  

Party Boy: clowncar on fire: You got a problem with colored sugar? Maybe white is more preferable?

it is certainly a problem in society how the brown and the white sugar is separated. Theres articles disgustingly asking if Brown Sugar is Better than White Sugar

The segregation also occurs within the brown sugar community.
[i.imgur.com image 300x300][i.imgur.com image 205x277]

Its a concern


What about the eggs? You never see a mixture of white and brown eggs. They're always segregated.

When I was a kid I visited a farm and we gathered up the eggs all in one basket w/o regard to color.
 
2012-07-14 05:44:09 PM  

Fail in Human Form: Nothing you listed there is illegal to do. Questionable judgement, sure, but not illegal. He wasn't acting like a cop, he wanted to know wtf was going on.


Actually, by Zimmerman's own account, it was Martin who wanted to know wtf was going on. His mistake was posing the question directly to Zimmerman.
 
2012-07-14 05:44:25 PM  

CliChe Guevara: Probably because the guy conspired to cover up a very large sum of money and committed perjury to do so, followed by the discovery that he failed to obey bail conditions and turn in his passport as required.

In fact, he went as far as turning in an invalid passport so as to retain his active one. I am pretty sure any reasonable person could only draw one conclusion from that. He was leaving his options open to flee if he didn't like the way things were going. Which is exactly why bail is set based on stated finances, and why the passports have to be surrendered, both parts of which he tried to circumvent.


liberal lies, just like the witness who said she saw Martin on top beating Zimmerman, and then changed her mind when she found out how tall Martin was and said it was Zimmerman...oh wait.....
 
2012-07-14 05:46:11 PM  

Thunderpipes: Liberals are evil, you want to punish a guy for defending himself. News at 11:00. Christ, you guys don't even want him to get a fair trial. What is wrong with you people?


I don't think that Trayvon Martin should be punished for defending himself.
 
2012-07-14 05:46:52 PM  

gimmegimme: I am just confused and repulsed by the people who claim that GZ is not guilty of doing anything wrong, but they cannot find the facts of the case to prove it.


What did he do wrong? There's an unknown few minutes from the time he hangs up the phone to the confrontation with TM where it's possible that he did something wrong, but other than the possibility that something happened in that time, he violated no laws that night. I can't find fault with a person taking an active role in the safety and security of their neighborhood. All we know is that GZ saw somebody that he thought was suspicious and called to report it. He then left his vehicle so that he could continue observing the suspicious person until police arrived.

I have no idea what happened after GZ hung up the phone and neither does anybody else. All we know after that is that GZ was being assaulted and eventually pulled his gun and shot TM. I can see a case being made for self defense but can't find any way to call it murder given what we know and what we don't.
 
2012-07-14 05:47:12 PM  

thamike: Fail in Human Form: Nothing you listed there is illegal to do. Questionable judgement, sure, but not illegal. He wasn't acting like a cop, he wanted to know wtf was going on.

Actually, by Zimmerman's own account, it was Martin who wanted to know wtf was going on. His mistake was posing the question directly to Zimmerman.


Agreed. It was Martin's responsibility to lie face down on the ground with his fingers laced behind his head and his ankles crossed until Zimmerman got the answers to his questions.
 
2012-07-14 05:49:30 PM  

consider this: I have no idea what happened after GZ hung up the phone and neither does anybody else.


Except Martin's girlfriend. "What are you doing here?"
 
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