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(NESN)   Larry Bird admits that Kobe Bryant is probably right that this year's Olympic team, could probably beat the '92 squad, but only because "We're old and I haven't played in 20 years"   (nesn.com) divider line 313
    More: Amusing, Kobe Bryant, Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, Magic Johnson, Pacers, teams  
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10627 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jul 2012 at 12:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-13 01:12:58 PM
The 2012 team is missing some of the greatest players currently playing in the NBA: Rose, Wade, D Howard, Pierce, Garnett - americans; then guys like Ginobili, Nowitzki, Parker, Gasol that are foreigners.

Ignoring Bird, Jordan, Magic let's look at the matchup at center:

David Robinson
Patrick Ewing

versus

Tyson Chandler

yikes.
 
2012-07-13 01:14:57 PM

oldsbone: 1992 would stomp on this team no question. The guards and forwards are pretty even. It depends on who can exploit mismatches. However, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing would go off for 60 between them. Chandler isn't at that level, and I'm guessing his back up is Love, who isn't there either and is out of position anyway.


Chandler IS at that level defensively.

But he's the only real center and if he gets into any sort of foul trouble, they'd be boned.

Don't equate overall superstardom with talent at any one facet of the game. Just because Chandler's not a superstar doesn't mean he's not great defensively.
 
2012-07-13 01:15:40 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: You might find one or two NHL players with that kind of record. Just say'n.


Since I said "the actual sport", that is pretty irrelevant.
 
2012-07-13 01:16:16 PM

Mr Guy: Psycoholic_Slag: TheJoe03: Mr Guy: Thugs:

What's funny is how much more criminals there are in the NFL, when does that sport become "thug ball"? Hell, the actual sport (hockey as well) is thuggish in nature, so NBA being branded the thug league always seems like BS to me.

In both the NBA and the NFL you can put together a pretty comprehensive list of players with arrest records including homicide, gun and drug possession and domestic violence. You might find one or two NHL players with that kind of record. Just say'n.

I've always assumed there are two things working against the NBA in the minds of your average ignorant racist:

1) There are no helmets, sleeves, or pads
1) You see the players, up close, from the waist up for the entire game, close enough to hear profanity and read lips

The NBA is more "thug" like because you can easily see the players bad behaviors and body art on tv.


This. This right here.

This is EXACTLY why there's so much "thug" hate in this thread.

/Also basketball's associated with cities, whereas football's often thought of as a country/southern thing.
 
2012-07-13 01:16:48 PM
the 92 team had larry freaking bird coming off the bench. tell me who on this '12 team could be considered the best ever coming off the bench
 
2012-07-13 01:17:49 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: n both the NBA and the NFL you can put together a pretty comprehensive list of players with arrest records including homicide, gun and drug possession and domestic violence.


I can't even remember the lat time I heard an NBA player charged with anything, I think that clown Arenas was the last one. Meanwhile, the Bengals and the Lions have had half their rosters go to jail.
 
2012-07-13 01:18:00 PM
Mike_LowELL:

Well stated. Nice to see this on Fark.

*tips hat*
 
2012-07-13 01:21:27 PM

TheJoe03: Psycoholic_Slag: n both the NBA and the NFL you can put together a pretty comprehensive list of players with arrest records including homicide, gun and drug possession and domestic violence.

I can't even remember the lat time I heard an NBA player charged with anything, I think that clown Arenas was the last one. Meanwhile, the Bengals and the Lions have had half their rosters go to jail.


Iverson sure didn't help the NBA's image during his career.
 
2012-07-13 01:21:37 PM

Mr Guy: mitchcumstein1: That is not a great match up for Stockton, but he wouldn't be embarrassed. There is no way on Earth either Larry Bird or Charles Barkley is capable of guarding Durant or LeBron, and I love Larry and Charles dearly.

I'm just not sure that's true, because of style of play. Larry and Charles just played so SMART, that I really think they'd be able to switch off on defense fluidly enough to handle both as a team. I don't think LeBron could back Barkley down in the paint without losing the ball to a double team, which would ABSOLUTELY be coming every single possession, and Larry could handle LeBron on the outside. I think both would be able to just honestly bump Durant off his game. I don't think he's got the mental toolkit for the type of game Larry and Barkley would lay on him, because the NBA isn't thug ball these days.


Oh, I absolutely think he could back Charles down. Frankly, when LeBron wants to, he can pretty much do what he wants on the floor. He's too big, too quick, too strong, too good a passer. And if you double him, where's the double come from? Do you leave Kobe? Durant? CP3? Do you leave the big and let LeBron just throw it at the rim for Chandler, or because this is a fantasy a healthy Blake Griffin, or Kevin Love, who can spot up or go to the rim? It's a nightmare match up. And Larry on the perimeter, against the fastest guy in the current NBA, who also happens to be 6'8'' 275lbs? Mmmm...I don't think so.

Well, of course if you let Charles and Bird beat the shiat out of him he'll fade, but I don't think he's soft, and I don't think either one of them could guard him on the perimeter.
 
2012-07-13 01:22:24 PM

Mike_LowELL: Dafatone: ...Wow. This deserves a medal.
Rwa2play: I (heart) you.

This thread is about the '92 Dream Team. It is a basketball thread. For whatever reason, it has been posted on the front page, where people say things about basketball that are silly and kind of dumb. For this reason, I intend to carry the spirit of the '92 Dream Team, where I will destroy people, just for kicks.


Brah, I'll help carry it with you. The Dream Team was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity where the best players on the planet Earth actually came together to form a GOAT team. Talented players who played the game in the right fashion and were still dominant. When an opposing team was happy that they didn't get beat by 50 points or more, that's where the bar is set at.
 
2012-07-13 01:23:25 PM

1derful: Who on the "Dream Team" could contain the phenom that is Andre Iguodala?


Laettner's shoe-tongue could probably do.

The '92 team was like Bill Russell (best ever within the framework of a team, and only focussed on winning); the 2012 team is... inferior.
 
2012-07-13 01:24:12 PM
Pippen or Jordan would do very well defending LeBron, better than anyone playing right now could.
 
2012-07-13 01:24:54 PM

ltdanman44: the 92 team had larry freaking bird coming off the bench. tell me who on this '12 team could be considered the best ever coming off the bench


Maybe he wasn't LARRY BIRD in '92; but he was still devastating and someone who could drill a three-pointer in his sleep.
 
2012-07-13 01:26:04 PM

Mr Guy: Psycoholic_Slag: TheJoe03: Mr Guy: Thugs:

What's funny is how much more criminals there are in the NFL, when does that sport become "thug ball"? Hell, the actual sport (hockey as well) is thuggish in nature, so NBA being branded the thug league always seems like BS to me.

In both the NBA and the NFL you can put together a pretty comprehensive list of players with arrest records including homicide, gun and drug possession and domestic violence. You might find one or two NHL players with that kind of record. Just say'n.

I've always assumed there are two things working against the NBA in the minds of your average ignorant racist:

1) There are no helmets, sleeves, or pads
1) You see the players, up close, from the waist up for the entire game, close enough to hear profanity and read lips

The NBA is more "thug" like because you can easily see the players bad behaviors and body art on tv.


It seems that you are calling me an average ignorant racist. Please show me where I have made a racist comment. If "gangsta street ball" is what set you off, I'll give you that, but I was referring to the style of play and not the race of the players, so my bad.
 
2012-07-13 01:26:36 PM

Mr Guy: Iverson sure didn't help the NBA's image during his career.


Agreed, but that dude sure could play. The 76ers had no right to be in the Finals. Never a fan of shoot first PGs but he's one of the exceptions (the other being Rose).
 
2012-07-13 01:27:17 PM
Also, let's remember that the opposition in 1992 wasn't nearly as good as it will be in 2012. USA's still the obvious favorite by like 30 points a game or whatever, but it's a tougher road.
 
2012-07-13 01:28:34 PM
A 2012 team could have been made to challenge the Dream Team. But this team is anchored by the third or fourth best center in the league, in an era so weak at center that teams are convincing themselves they don't need one.There might be two guys who could play with Robinson, and they'd still get overwhelmed. Plus losing their choices at some positions to injury has weakened them.

Howard at center, no injuries... That team could compete. The team they actually HAVE needs to concentrate on beating Spain, and not on a hypothetical they'd lose by twenty.
 
2012-07-13 01:29:37 PM

Magorn: bdub77: Haha. What a great answer. I almost feel like we should have a 92 vs 12 game now. I realize Larry's back is now solidified bone but I bet he can still get it in the basket. Both MJs can probably put a good game in. Bet Pippen could get a game in.

I mean they would get destroyed but you never know, just 1 game, anything could happen.

Somebody at EA sports is desperately trying to slap this puppy together even as we speak, but with both teams in their prime, I think the 92 Dream teams have a point that it would be a massacre. Kobe is great, even hall of fame worthy, LeBron is getting there, but Jordan, Johnson, Bird? All contenders for the title Greatest of All Time.


If you have Jordan, Bird and Magic in their primes, then you could fill the remaining 9 spots with 9 Mark Landsberger clones and they could still beat the 2012 Dream Team.
 
2012-07-13 01:30:01 PM

Mike_LowELL: Legendary ownage


Mike_LowELL, you are the 1-man Dream Team of Fark.
 
2012-07-13 01:30:22 PM

mitchcumstein1: There is no way on Earth either Larry Bird or Charles Barkley is capable of guarding Durant or LeBron, and I love Larry and Charles dearly.


You're neglecting Pippen. Same size as Lebron and Durant and one of the premier defenders of all time(not very many people can claim to have shut down Magic in his prime). Bird and Barkley would defend occasionally, but their job wouldn't be defense so much as playing rough(what they do best). Lebron would come out of each game with busted ribs and fat lip with those two, and be worn out from Pippen's stellar defense.
 
2012-07-13 01:31:22 PM
This definitely isn't a fair comparison between the two teams. The '92 Dream Team was the stuff of legend. Easily every one of those guys were shoo-ins as first-ballot Hall of Famers (dunno if that actually happened or not) that are widely considered top 1-3 in their position ever. Of the '12 Dream Team, Kobe and Lebron James are future Hall of Famers, but the rest of those guys are still relatively early in their careers. Their stories are still in the first few chapters.
 
2012-07-13 01:31:51 PM

spentmiles: Any word from Magic Johnson on the 1992 team being better than the 2012 team? I'm sure he's positive...


danielrfaust.files.wordpress.com
.
.
.
i.ytimg.com
 
2012-07-13 01:32:35 PM

TheJoe03: Pippen or Jordan would do very well defending LeBron, better than anyone playing right now could.


No, they wouldn't, and they probably never would guard him in a game anyway. He's too big and strong for either one of them. He's Karl Malone's size, no fark that, he's bigger than Karl Malone, with Michael Jordan's athleticism, and then some. He's a once in a lifetime freak of nature.
 
2012-07-13 01:33:17 PM

Rwa2play: The Dream Team was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity where the best players on the planet Earth actually came together to form a GOAT team.


Yup. They straight-up Voltroned that piece.
 
2012-07-13 01:33:49 PM

Mr Guy: Don't ever, ever forget that Kobe studies MJ's tape to LEARN how to defend. Kobe couldn't take Michael Jordan, at all ever. They just don't have the same blood lust to win. Kobe believes he should win, and he's got the talent to do it. Michael Jordan will slash your tires to win, every time. The real problem would be once Kobe REALIZED that MJ is embarrassing him, you'd never see the ball in anyone else's hands again


One of my favorite anecdotes of the '92 Dream Team is how one of the reporters was at the hotel, and he was looking to see if any of the players were around to talk to and they were all out, except Jordan. Jordan was watching film. Of freaking Angola.
 
2012-07-13 01:34:24 PM
I read that headline as "Ladybird"
sharetv.org

Didn't know she had an opinion about basketball.
 
2012-07-13 01:36:55 PM
I'd put a thousand bucks on the Dream Team winning that matchup. Anywhere, anytime. Hell, the bench from the 92 squad could probably beat the new version, to say nothing of what the starters would do.
 
2012-07-13 01:37:14 PM

mitchcumstein1: That is not a great match up for Stockton, but he wouldn't be embarrassed. There is no way on Earth either Larry Bird or Charles Barkley is capable of guarding Durant or LeBron, and I love Larry and Charles dearly.


LeBron and Durant could not guard Bird or Barkley either. Bird is still the best small forward ever... and at 5'11", Barkley was one hell of a power forward.
 
2012-07-13 01:37:25 PM

bhcompy: mitchcumstein1: There is no way on Earth either Larry Bird or Charles Barkley is capable of guarding Durant or LeBron, and I love Larry and Charles dearly.

You're neglecting Pippen. Same size as Lebron and Durant and one of the premier defenders of all time(not very many people can claim to have shut down Magic in his prime). Bird and Barkley would defend occasionally, but their job wouldn't be defense so much as playing rough(what they do best). Lebron would come out of each game with busted ribs and fat lip with those two, and be worn out from Pippen's stellar defense.


Pippen was a dubious 6'8'' 225. LeBron is a legit 6'8'' and weighs 265lbs if he weighs and ounce. And he's also quicker and more athletic than Pippen. And he gets the shiat beat out of him every night already. What are they going to do that isn't already done to him?

Durant he may be able to get to, I don't think so, but maybe. LeBron, nope.
 
2012-07-13 01:38:15 PM

mitchcumstein1: No, they wouldn't, and they probably never would guard him in a game anyway.


They wouldn't guard him better than anyone around today would, really? Pippen wouldn't guard him, really? I get that he's almost impossible to guard (unless you're the 2011 Dallas Mavericks, that zone f-ed him up) but Pippen would do great against him, IMO.
 
2012-07-13 01:40:35 PM
Now watch, the cocky '12 team won't even win the Gold. Or they will, but they'll lose a game before the medal round. And that will pretty much settle the argument.
 
2012-07-13 01:40:41 PM

Mr Guy: Iverson sure didn't help the NBA's image during his career


There was a bit of a talent lull in the early 2000s too. Some bad drafts in there (including probably the worst ever draft), a lot of the 90s big-time talented guys were retired or retiring, and it wasn't getting replaced. The talent level is back now.

And the NBA was pretty well nearly killed by the cocaine and thug crap in the 70s and early 80s. They were really fortunate that Magic and Bird arrived just in time to revive interest in it.
 
2012-07-13 01:41:26 PM

hugram: Bird is still the best small forward ever


I think with Bird and LeBron you have the former best small forward ever, and the next best small forward ever. Now, LeBron has to win a couple more Championships to be that, but if he does, he's a top 5 guy all time in my mind.
 
2012-07-13 01:44:17 PM

bhcompy: You're neglecting Pippen. Same size as Lebron and Durant and one of the premier defenders of all time(not very many people can claim to have shut down Magic in his prime). Bird and Barkley would defend occasionally, but their job wouldn't be defense so much as playing rough(what they do best). Lebron would come out of each game with busted ribs and fat lip with those two, and be worn out from Pippen's stellar defense.


Pippen was amazing but he can't guard Durant and LeBron at the same time and team 2012 would have them both on the floor. And Larry Bird? Besides the fact that he was 35 and sorta washed up by '92, he was never a very good defender and he'd be giving up 30-40 pounds and tons of athleticism to LeBron. If the game gets rough, he's in trouble. Barkley and Malone I can see mixing it up but not Bird.

Ewing and Robinson are the real problem for 2012. Chandler's a solid defender but gives nothing on the other end. They'd be free to roam.
 
2012-07-13 01:45:38 PM

TheJoe03: mitchcumstein1: No, they wouldn't, and they probably never would guard him in a game anyway.

They wouldn't guard him better than anyone around today would, really? Pippen wouldn't guard him, really? I get that he's almost impossible to guard (unless you're the 2011 Dallas Mavericks, that zone f-ed him up) but Pippen would do great against him, IMO.


Michael would be guarding the shooting guard, probably Kobe.

Pippen, I don't think, could guard him, too small. That's my opinion. I am not a Scottie Pippen fan though, so I may be tainted.
 
2012-07-13 01:46:04 PM

MythDragon: I read that headline as "Ladybird"
[sharetv.org image 400x300]

Didn't know she had an opinion about basketball.


this nonsense is why threads like this should not go on the main page.
 
2012-07-13 01:46:40 PM

Dafatone: LeBron? Okay


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

/the first 11:30, sure
//last :30 of a game? Yeah , not so much
 
2012-07-13 01:47:49 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: It's a known fact that Larry Bird got 90% of the white people basketball talent. Apparently, he got a good chunk of our snark too.


Oh yeah...he's a trash talker from way back...and I seem to remember Michael Jordan saying Bird was the dirtiest player in the league. He was just smarter than most and didn't get caught. I never will forget when he snapped on Bill Lambeer.
 
2012-07-13 01:49:40 PM

you have pee hands: Chandler's a solid defender but gives nothing on the other end. They'd be free to roam.


I like Love or even the Brow in the post. They can spot up and shoot the 3 if Robinson and Ewing start roaming too far. Sure you give up some on the defensive end, but I'd make Patrick Ewing beat me in the end.

Or they could go small with LeBron in the post, and 4 guards/swingmen around him.
 
2012-07-13 01:49:57 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Dafatone: LeBron? Okay

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

/the first 11:30, sure
//last :30 of a game? Yeah , not so much


Oh yeah, because the last :30 seconds are SO important, what with 95% of games being decided by then.

Besides, you've got 4 other allstars on the floor, and the knock on Lebron is that he passes instead of shoots at the buzzer.

Hitting an open Durant / Kobe / Carmelo / Iguodala / Love / anyone else on the team is just FINE.
 
2012-07-13 01:50:21 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Dafatone: LeBron? Okay

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

/the first 11:30, sure
//last :30 of a game? Yeah , not so much


He's a champion, now. You have to let that one go buddy.
 
2012-07-13 01:50:37 PM
Paul, Williams, Westbrook v Stockton, Magic
Kobe, Carmelo, Durant, LeBron v Jordan, Mullin, Pippen, Drexler, Bird
Love, Griffin v Malone, Barkley
Chandler v Ewing, Robinson

Plenty of good talent in that SG/SF area for both teams, but you can't have all of them on the floor at the same time. Even if you call it even at the 2-3 spots those players will occupy on the floor for the '12 team, they are outclassed everywhere else, particularly at center(I like Chandler, but he can't go a whole game against Ewing and Robinson, and when you bring in Love at 5 to give him a breather it's all over). Malone would give Griffin fits because he's just as big, just as physical, but has the techniques that Griffin just doesn't have yet.

Do you put Lebron in at the 4 so you can have Kobe, Lebron, and Durant all on the floor at the same time? Maybe, but Lebron would get more beat up being defended by Barkley and Malone while Pippen was on Durant. Too much talent for team 2012 at one size in that SF/oversized SG spot, and all of them want the ball. Aren't going to win too many games like that against a team of equal, but distributed talent.
 
2012-07-13 01:52:12 PM

Christian Bale: Now watch, the cocky '12 team won't even win the Gold. Or they will, but they'll lose a game before the medal round. And that will pretty much settle the argument.


I figure these idiots are going to need time to figure out how to play without a script, that'll be good for a loss right there...
 
2012-07-13 01:53:18 PM

bhcompy: Paul, Williams, Westbrook v Stockton, Magic
Kobe, Carmelo, Durant, LeBron v Jordan, Mullin, Pippen, Drexler, Bird
Love, Griffin v Malone, Barkley
Chandler v Ewing, Robinson

Plenty of good talent in that SG/SF area for both teams, but you can't have all of them on the floor at the same time. Even if you call it even at the 2-3 spots those players will occupy on the floor for the '12 team, they are outclassed everywhere else, particularly at center(I like Chandler, but he can't go a whole game against Ewing and Robinson, and when you bring in Love at 5 to give him a breather it's all over). Malone would give Griffin fits because he's just as big, just as physical, but has the techniques that Griffin just doesn't have yet.

Do you put Lebron in at the 4 so you can have Kobe, Lebron, and Durant all on the floor at the same time? Maybe, but Lebron would get more beat up being defended by Barkley and Malone while Pippen was on Durant. Too much talent for team 2012 at one size in that SF/oversized SG spot, and all of them want the ball. Aren't going to win too many games like that against a team of equal, but distributed talent.


The rest of the Knicks weren't anywhere near the Bulls, so this is a weighted comment, but...

If Ewing couldn't beat Will Purdue, Bill Cartwright, Bill Wennington, etc... how is he going to win this game?
 
2012-07-13 01:53:49 PM
the matchups would be:

PG magic - Paul
SG jordan - Bryant
SF pippen/ mullin - Durant
PF malone/ barkley - James
C robinson/ ewing - Chandler

But this one would be tricky. If Chris Mullin is in, I'd switch Magic to Durant and Mullin to Paul. How the heck does 6'0 Chris Paul guard 6'9 Magic Johnson?
 
2012-07-13 01:54:35 PM

mitchcumstein1: There is no way on Earth either Larry Bird or Charles Barkley is capable of guarding Durant or LeBron, and I love Larry and Charles dearly.


I'm an old-timey basketball fan, but I have to agree with you on this point. Bird's only hope would be to go point-for-point with them. Barkley would have to try to body them up, might work on Durant, would be a tough proposition against LeBron.

Tyson Chandler is no joke. He's a legit 7 footer, and he can move and he's strong. He was the Defensive player of the year in the NBA. He's legit.

Agreed that inside it would be a tougher matchup than some people are giving Chandler credit for. The difference, especially for Ewing, would be the ability to take Chandler outside the paint and negate his strength. Compliment that with the driving of guys like Magic, Jordan and Pippen forcing Chandler to collapse back in all the time, and it would be an absolute nightmare game for him.
 
2012-07-13 01:55:21 PM

Dafatone: The rest of the Knicks weren't anywhere near the Bulls, so this is a weighted comment, but...

If Ewing couldn't beat Will Purdue, Bill Cartwright, Bill Wennington, etc... how is he going to win this game?



Ewing individually beat those guys... but the Bulls had Jordan... and Jordan > Ewing.
 
2012-07-13 01:57:24 PM

stickandmove: Devo: The world competition was weaker in 92. Teams just looked at the Dream Team in awe. They got autographs before the game.

To be fair, if the Yugoslavian national team still existed they may have given them a game (Drazen Petrovic, Vlade Divac, Toni Kukoc, Dino Raja).


If I recall 1992 correctly the Lithuanian team gave them a decent run for thier money, and the country had only come into (re)-existence a couple of years before and were so poor that the drummer from the Greatful Dead paid for thier Uni's (Which you could kinda tell by looking at them:
a.espncdn.com
 
2012-07-13 01:58:36 PM
This one of those "everything was better back then" things?

I miss watching the greats. I have not watched basketball in almost 20 years. It was my sport. Lakers Celtics games were awesome. Bulls were awesome. I really am not sure of today's players are up to the level the old ones were. Maybe I am just old and see it that way.
 
2012-07-13 01:59:22 PM

boogie_down: mitchcumstein1: There is no way on Earth either Larry Bird or Charles Barkley is capable of guarding Durant or LeBron, and I love Larry and Charles dearly.

I'm an old-timey basketball fan, but I have to agree with you on this point. Bird's only hope would be to go point-for-point with them. Barkley would have to try to body them up, might work on Durant, would be a tough proposition against LeBron.

Tyson Chandler is no joke. He's a legit 7 footer, and he can move and he's strong. He was the Defensive player of the year in the NBA. He's legit.

Agreed that inside it would be a tougher matchup than some people are giving Chandler credit for. The difference, especially for Ewing, would be the ability to take Chandler outside the paint and negate his strength. Compliment that with the driving of guys like Magic, Jordan and Pippen forcing Chandler to collapse back in all the time, and it would be an absolute nightmare game for him.


No doubt, it's a spot the '92 clearly has a clear advantage, not having Dwight Howard on this team hurts.
 
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