SH: Weaver95: yes. why is this so difficult to grasp?

For a very good reason. You are punishing THOUSANDS of innocent people because a tiny percentage of them were morons.
Why is that so difficult to grasp?

I'll repeat: PUNISH THE PEOPLE RESPONISIBLE.

or in other words, keep the football $ rolling in. The true victims are the fans and businesses harmed by the lack of football games.

What is it in the water around PSU that makes folks see themselves as the victim and not the boys who were raped?

Weaver95: you didn't even bother to read my earlier comments, did you?

You made earlier comments? I'm sure they were self-contradictory.

I guess a lot of people want to overlook the fact that it's the way the football program was viewed that allowed this to become a problem in the first place. If the local society, the police, the administration don't put an overriding emphasis on protecting the football program, Sandusky is stopped early and TODAY no one would remember this. Instead, we're dealing with a major university and the town around it enabling 15 years of child molestation.

Hey, but it's football, right?

If your football program:
a) facilitated child rape by providing space and access for a pedophile to lure children to be raped,
b) covered it up by convincing feckless and criminal administrators to say nothing,
and c) decided that the program was more important that the well being of children.

Then you should have the integrity to shut it down yourself, Penn State,

doubled99: All of you people so angry at Paterno and the university are just upset because because you secretly want to rape children yourself.
Just like those secretly homosexual people who are gay-bashers publicly, you hate what you see in yourself.

0.1/10, or less.

IAmRight: So because people are paranoid, we must assume that it's the football program's fault.

When the UN imposes sanctions on a country for violations, everyone suffers. The idea being that people should hold their governments accountable. The same is true with Penn State. The culture surrounding football in their institution dictated that you didn't talk bad about football. You seem to be saying everyone is blaming football the sport, when we're blaming the football program AND the institution that allowed it to gain so much power.

It's unfortunate that such punishment will affect innocent people but that's the trade-off we have to make sometimes.

Again, please explain what Paterno would have done to someone that was worse than what happened. Bear in mind, he didn't even know about the initial investigation in 1998.

Based on what I've been hearing on the radio there's evidence that he did know. And even if he didn't the culture was such that the people that did, did not act. Sandusky should have been fired and a serious effort should have been made to cooperate with the investigations. Neither of these things happened.

Hiding behind the current students and local businesses is analogous to the proverbial kid that murders his parents, then tells the cops to go easy on him because he's an orphan.

fireclown: Weaver95: In five years this will all have blown over. In twenty it will be an answer to trivia questions on "The Ocho"

I don't think so


Hell, I'm a fully functioning member of society, and I'd never heard of the SMU thing until today. I know people who couldn't find Srebenecia on a map. Make no mistake, this will fade. If PSU has a brain in their head, they'll take their lumps, pay out a stinkload of cash, and a few guys will (rightly) go to jail. But long term, I don't think this is a game changer.

However, there are some profound cultural problems that the PSU situation highlights. The big one is that we idolize football to an insane degree, whereas scientists labor in obscurity. I'll do my part.


[www.technologyreview.com image 220x173]
This here is Dr Craig Venter. He's involved in not only decoding genomes, but in creating synthetic living organisms from synthesized DNA. It's effing badass, and he should be more well known than any college football player.

Riiiiiiiight, but can he run a sub-5 40 meter dash? Does he have two cell phones (one for his girlfriend and one...not for his girlfriend)?

Didn't think so.

Millennium: No, a death penalty does punish the people responsible.

And possibly tens of thousands of innocent bystanders who had a lot invested in PSU football.


//Ohio State fan, btw, before the next ridiculous accusations start.

fireclown: I don't think this is a game changer

Well, except for the kids who got raped.

Millennium: Blame them, as you should

They'll make sure to tell their mortgage company that. I'm sure it will help.

IAmRight: AliceBToklasLives: but the structure of the government did not change - it remained a dictatorship in all but name, but now with a new guy in charge. Is that a sufficient change?
Provided that they weren't committing atrocities, no one would care whether they stayed in power or not.


So... leave the Nazi Party in power in Germany after Hitler's death, and let Japan continue worshiping their Emperor as a God. The both promise they will clean up their act. That should work out just great.
(Godwinning is fun!)

Shut it down for a year. This old hag used the schools affiliation to lure little boys & to violate them.

someonelse: Watching people inexplicably defending the indefensible is truly bizarre.

Welcome to FARK.jpg?

/Agree completely

wxboy: The local businesses who depend absolutely on what, maybe 13 days of business max from the existence of the football program hardly have a sustainable business model anyway.

You clearly don't know much about big-time college football programs, and many retailers depend on short periods of time providing their profits for the year. Black Friday, etc.

There's no reason to pull down the statue.

Just add "pedophile enabler" to the bottom of the plaque, and things should take care of themselves

The death penalty for PSU football is not only necessitated, indeed the lack of a death penalty punishment stains all of college football. How can a program who's existence was quite clearly deemed more important than protecting children from rape be considered a valid competitor?

Doesn't NCAA football just feel...creepy while Penn State is allowed to participate?

The only valid argument against punishing the program was completely obliterated by the Freeh report, that being the possibility that Sandusky was a lone actor who's monstrous acts were unknown. None of that is true now, PSU knew.

Allowing PSU football to exist as a program sanctioned by the NCAA clearly and loudly states that the NCAA believes the preservation of the program is, in fact, important.

It's not.

Not about "punishing" PSU. It's sending a message to every other insutition out there "We will not tolerate this shiat! You see something like this happen, report it or we will nuke your program into oblivion!!! Zero tolerance!!"

SH: Millennium: No, a death penalty does punish the people responsible.

And possibly tens of thousands of innocent bystanders who had a lot invested in PSU football.


//Ohio State fan, btw, before the next ridiculous accusations start.

So what you're saying is that PSU football is an institution to be protected at all costs? Isn't that thinking why they're in so much trouble in the first place?

//Fellow Buckeye fan. You gotta agree with me that PSU should receive harsher penalties for Sandusky than Ohio State received for Pryor.

birchman: From a criminal standpoint, they will be. Now the NCAA needs to decide how they will discipline the program for fostering the culture that allowed child rape to become acceptable.

Trust me, I'm as much a fan of blood for the blood god as the next guy in this matter. Maybe more so. But is this the role of the NCAA? I have to admit that I'm sort of unclear on their actual role. Most of the judgements seem to be for recruiting and game fixing. Are they in the business of controlling the culture of college football? If so, then they have to act today. If not, they should let the police do their work and help the prosecution wherever possible.

/I disapprove of raping little kids in the strongest possible terms.
//Really.
///Can barely even WATCH sleepers.

SomebodyElsesShoes: If your football program:
a) facilitated child rape by providing space and access for a pedophile to lure children to be raped,
b) covered it up by convincing feckless and criminal administrators to say nothing,
and c) decided that the program was more important that the well being of children.

Then you should have the integrity to shut it down yourself, Penn State,

And?

Weaver95: so you would allow a program that permitted decades of kiddie rape to go unpunished?

You say "the program" did it. I say there is a core of (possibly) 20 people responsible.

Therefore, there is no answer because your question is flawed.

js34603: /back to your regularly scheduled lynch mob and impotent outrage.

yes, how dare us being outraged at a decade plus of multiple child rape and the institutionalized cover up of it.

IXI Jim IXI: There's no reason to pull down the statue.

Just add "pedophile enabler" to the bottom of the plaque, and things should take care of themselves

Put it at the entrance to the campus right under "Pennsylvania State University" as well.

gimmegimme: Riiiiiiiight, but can he run a sub-5 40 meter dash? Does he have two cell phones (one for his girlfriend and one...not for his girlfriend)?

Didn't think so.



I've heard he's a pretty good tennis player. Best I can do.

Galloping Galoshes: SomebodyElsesShoes: If your football program:
a) facilitated child rape by providing space and access for a pedophile to lure children to be raped,
b) covered it up by convincing feckless and criminal administrators to say nothing,
and c) decided that the program was more important that the well being of children.

Then you should have the integrity to shut it down yourself, Penn State,

And?

And that way the program wont be used to rape and cover up the rape of children?

What do you want here?

Those kids had better not be allowed to sue. That could affect the school and, in turn, the innocent people who make their living off the school.

Better off for everyone to just forget the whole justice thing...

NCAA is so pissed off at PSU football there going to suppend Temple's women volleyball program for 10 years.

The whole program should get the Death Penalty for one reason alone. People that run the school have to understand that the responsibility that they have extends beyond the program, the school, and even it's alumni. Their whole community depends on them maintaining integrity and operating in the cleanest of fashion. The theory being that most people will do "The Right Thing" once they see how big of an impact they have on the livelihood of the Universities surrounding community. However, if there is one thing that I have learned over the years it's that most people in high positions of power in this country don't give two shiats about a program, or a business, or a surrounding community, or their employees/students. They only care about their own skin and sometimes not even that. Because to people like that, this is all a game the only rules that they have to abide by are the ones that get caught for.

I say Death Penalty, even though I'm not sure if it's going to keep everyone else in line. "Higher Education" is corrupted.

precious_crotchflake: A Fark Handle: kwame: alywa: I actively helped him cover up

Oh see there's your problem. I'm going to assume you knew nothing about it. We'll even assume your boss and a couple of coworkers knew about it. We're still going to fire you and your coworkers and shut down your place of business.

turns out that if you work for a company that is involved in a decade plus criminal conspiracy you may lose your job. that's how it works. sure the secretary didn't know she was working for a mob front company, but when the fbi busts up the office she's going to lose her job.

That is not how it works. When managers are caught embezzling, cooking the books, whatever, they are taken out and replaced with ones that hopefully aren't crooks. If the whole company is a front for the mob, it is taken down.
The football program itself is not a criminal enterprise.

Except that the CEO knowingly allowed a child rapist to perform said acts just down the hall from his office. For 14 freaking years, that we know of.

I'm sure that Sandusky was raping boys before 1998 and there's no way JoPa didn't know about it.

WhoIsWillo: Honestly, I could care less if Penn State never plays football again. Football is a privilege, not a right. The NCAA can take away that privilege, and they should.

Also ironically shutting the program down for a couple/few years may actually help it recover better. Right now no one who has other options would even consider working there. And that won't change if the program is allowed to just carry on.

SH: You say "the program" did it. I say there is a core of (possibly) 20 people responsible.

Among them higher ups in the football team.

Galloping Galoshes: Put it at the entrance to the campus right under "Pennsylvania State University" as well.

I agree that some kind of "never again" memorial might be appropriate.

precious_crotchflake: The football program itself is not a criminal enterprise

How is it not? They repeatedly covered up criminal behavior for monetary gain (or to avoid monetary loss).

That's almost a textbook definition of a criminal enterprise.

I think the "innocents" getting punished by a death penalty aren't so damned innocent. The WHOLE CULTURE at Happy Valley supported Sandusky and Paterno and company with their cult-like devotion. They were all making money hand over fist off of Penn State football and the dirty little secret about Sandusky may have been well known to MANY who kept their traps shut because there was profit to be made. LONG before the catholic Church sex abuse scandal broke there was a long held rumors and knowledge, jokes and whatnot about diddler priests. Same was true for the 14 years of Sandusky rapes. The entire University is complicit in some way by making Football the most important thing.

The shocking disregard for the children here is the main thing. HOW many Penn State alums, students, teachers, faculty, coaches, janitors SAW Sandusky traipsing around the campus or to the Liberty bowl with young scared looking boys and said or did nothing? The janitors who witnessed HORRORS testified to Freeh that they didn't report it because they were afraid for their jobs! These were Korean war vets too. For me the main argument for killing the football program is precisely that, it was so big and powerful that it trumps common decency and morals. When that happens, the culture is too far broken for it to proceed.

Weigard: birchman: Any institution that feels their reputation is more important than stopping child rape needs to be burned to the ground so it doesn't happen again somewhere else. Nothing can undo what happened, but what happens now can prevent this from happening again. Will it affect innocent people, yes, life's not always fair. Will it also protect innocent people in the future, absolutely.

The institution will start to die on the vine. Those individuals involved in the cover-up should be punished, and the publicity damage will be severe and will show in the school's ledgers. That is what is going to prevent this at Penn State and at other institutions in the future- the next crop of administrators that know that the school cannot survive another scandal. Tearing down the walls and salting the earth is an exercise in overkill.

Unless you live in the area, this whole thing will be out of your mind in a few weeks. The heavy shame for those affiliated with Happy Valley and Penn State will linger forever; collateral damage is unnecessary. Save your cries 'blood for the blood god' cries for when Sandusky gets turned into a Pez dispenser in prison.

You and others seem to be under the false impression that a school has a right to have an NCAA football program. Letting it "sort itself out" is ridiculous. Not that it will probably matter anyway, after the lawsuits are done they won't be able to afford shoulder pads.

SH: Weaver95: so you would allow a program that permitted decades of kiddie rape to go unpunished?

You say "the program" did it. I say there is a core of (possibly) 20 people responsible.

Therefore, there is no answer because your question is flawed.

20 people? Baloney. 20 people may have had direct knowledge of Sandusky's continual raping, but it's the larger program, the boosters, the way the program was viewed that led these 20 people to choose not to turn him in, that led the police to ignore the early charges by the victims. That needs to be changed, or nothing will change. Do you seriously believe that these 20 people were so debased that, absent any other consideration, they would have failed to turn in an active and notorious pedophile? I don't. Then why didn't they? Because the program had to be protected.

I think the best solution would be to force them to rename their team mascot/name to Penn State Nittany Boyfarker Apologists.

/Joe Pa's a-burnin'.

SomebodyElsesShoes: Galloping Galoshes: SomebodyElsesShoes: If your football program:
a) facilitated child rape by providing space and access for a pedophile to lure children to be raped,
b) covered it up by convincing feckless and criminal administrators to say nothing,
and c) decided that the program was more important that the well being of children.

Then you should have the integrity to shut it down yourself, Penn State,

And?

And that way the program wont be used to rape and cover up the rape of children?

What do you want here?

You ended with a comma. I was expecting more. This is FARK, after all.

/I do concur, btw

SH: Weaver95: yes. why is this so difficult to grasp?

For a very good reason. You are punishing THOUSANDS of innocent people because a tiny percentage of them were morons.
Why is that so difficult to grasp?

I'll repeat: PUNISH THE PEOPLE RESPONISIBLE.

How are they being punished? The students are attending a great academic university. The professors will still teach. The janitors will still have dirty floors to clean up.

Are you saying they're being punished because they can't go to a football game six times and shout "We are Penn State" back and forth? Because that's the "football culture" that Freeh talked about - that Penn State University and Penn State Football are inseparable - and that is a major problem.

The people responsible are going to jail. They are being punished.

Jim from Saint Paul: Millennium: Blame them, as you should

They'll make sure to tell their mortgage company that. I'm sure it will help.

As if the odds of even one person losing a home because Penn State got the death penalty were anything other than zero.