If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Mega 949)   If your star witness got his information from Wikipedia, you may want to rethink your legal strategy. THIS INCLUDES YOU, U.S. Department of Justice   (mega949.com) divider line 32
    More: Fail, U.S. Department of Justice, Wikipedia, vote-by-mails, expert witnesses, East Texas, Texas Legislature, Texas, crossexaminations  
•       •       •

9736 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jul 2012 at 11:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-07-13 03:20:02 PM
3 votes:

austerity101:

You don't need an ID to exist, even if it's improbable that people don't have any, and if the state is going to require you to have an ID to vote, they better make damn certain that it's the easiest process ever, since anything else will potentially disenfranchise people. Hell, they should do everything short of coming to your door.


The only items required to get the FREE voter ID card in Texas are your voter registration card and a social security card (which is free to obtain). In order to get a voter registration card you need to have a Driver License (valid ID for voting) or a Social Security Number. So if you are registered to vote, you have all the requirements needed to obtain a FREE voter ID card.

It doesn't even matter if it doesn't actually, at the time, disenfranchise anyone. It only matters if it could, potentially.

Every time I've gone to vote, the workers at the poll have had the voter list sitting open on the table in front of them. I merely walk up, give them my name and address and they flip to the correct page where I sign (with no matching signature present). All I would need to do is give my neighbor's name or read one of the names from the open roll and I've just potentially disenfranchised that person. If they do decide to vote as well then they have to file a provisional ballot and show ID to prove their vote is legitimate and mine is not. That's why we need Voter ID laws. After all, "it doesn't even matter if it doesn't actually, at the time, disenfranchise anyone. It only matters if it could, potentially.
2012-07-13 11:58:23 AM
3 votes:

Kazan: THEY DON'T HAVE IT.

Poll tax, grok it.




Anyone claiming positive identification is the same as a poll tax is being pretty reactionary.
2012-07-13 12:57:30 PM
2 votes:

Theaetetus: WhyKnot: Theaetetus: Notice there's a subtle shift in context before Wiki is mentioned in the article:

Nice try, Subs.

to be fair, the 'expert' is testifying as an expert (someone with specialized knowledge of a particular field such that his/her knowledge is beyond that of the average person)...his book is going to be a part of his knowledge base with establishes him as an expert... proving his book is basically a load of crap, gathered from unsubstantiated data....well yeah, that sort of shoots a hole in his testimony and raises serious questions about his 'expert' status in the subject matter he is testifying about.

Really? Have you checked the Wiki pages he mentions in his book? Have you followed their citations? No?
Then how can you say that it's "gathered from unsubstantiated data"? In fact, your entire complaint here seems to be based on unsubstantiated hearsay in this already-debunked article. Doesn't that raise serious questions about the validity of your criticism?

Frankly, it's more than a bit hypocritical of you to be calling things "unsubstantiated" when you, yourself, have never confirmed that they actually are.


You cant even source wiki in a college paper so his citing them is laughable.
2012-07-13 12:46:05 PM
2 votes:
It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, but unless election workers are charging money to either register or cast a ballot, stop calling it a "poll tax." It just makes you look foolish.
2012-07-13 12:27:37 PM
2 votes:

Kazan: give me doughnuts: Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?

because it isn't actually free

Kazan: "we created a free ID, but we closed your only place to get it within a 3 hours drive"

"... so you have to take a day off work [which you cannot afford] and drive 6 hours..."



If they can drive somewhere, then they are already is possession of all the ID they need to vote.
2012-07-13 12:09:44 PM
2 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Anyone defending poll taxes is anti-American and/or racist and/or a complete asshole. Unfortunately that include a ton of people in this country, which explains a lot.


I'm still on the fence on these laws (though I live in a state that requires me produce ID to vote), but it sounds like Texas is providing free IDs to anybody who can provide a birth certificate, voter registration card, or Social Security card. In order to register to vote, residents must provide either a Driver License number or Social Security number. So anybody who registers to vote should have either a photo ID or a Social Security card (which is free to obtain). So anybody who has registered to vote should also have the documentation needed to acquire a free voter ID.
2012-07-13 11:58:37 AM
2 votes:
Uh oh... you posted something that seems to be in favor of voter ID requirements. Around here that makes you slightly to the right of Hitler, and that automatically invalidates all arguments.

"Under cross examination, Rodriguez admitted that she has a birth certificate, a voter registration card, and a Social Security Card, and only two of those three forms of i.d. are required to obtain a free voter i.d. card offered by the DPS. Rodriguez testified that she 'doesn't have time' to go the DPS office to obtain the voter i.d. card, but she testified she had plenty of time to fly more than 1500 miles to Baltimore, catch a train to Washington DC, and sit for hours in a federal courtroom to testify about how unfair the Texas voter i.d. law is."

LOL.
2012-07-13 03:29:56 PM
1 votes:
I can actually think of two people off the top of my head who will be disenfranchised by the Voter ID law. One is my mother, and it's her fault entirely (her DL is expired and she can't get an ID because of outstanding warrants for tickets she not only didn't pay but didn't make arrangements to perform community service or something similar). The other is a friend of the family who was born at home back in the '30s or so and never issued a birth certificate, and was never able to get a SS card in large part because of that.

Of course, they're both white, so they don't fit the narrative anyway.

On a more general note, what prompts cries of disenfranchisement around here can get pretty ridiculous. During the midterm elections, there was one polling station (I think at a community center) that closed half their parking lot for repaving during early voting. Cue outcry. What made it particularly idiotic was that the polling place was located in a part of town where most people don't drive anyway.
2012-07-13 03:25:17 PM
1 votes:

rugman11: austerity101:

You don't need an ID to exist, even if it's improbable that people don't have any, and if the state is going to require you to have an ID to vote, they better make damn certain that it's the easiest process ever, since anything else will potentially disenfranchise people. Hell, they should do everything short of coming to your door.

The only items required to get the FREE voter ID card in Texas are your voter registration card and a social security card (which is free to obtain). In order to get a voter registration card you need to have a Driver License (valid ID for voting) or a Social Security Number. So if you are registered to vote, you have all the requirements needed to obtain a FREE voter ID card.

It doesn't even matter if it doesn't actually, at the time, disenfranchise anyone. It only matters if it could, potentially.

Every time I've gone to vote, the workers at the poll have had the voter list sitting open on the table in front of them. I merely walk up, give them my name and address and they flip to the correct page where I sign (with no matching signature present). All I would need to do is give my neighbor's name or read one of the names from the open roll and I've just potentially disenfranchised that person. If they do decide to vote as well then they have to file a provisional ballot and show ID to prove their vote is legitimate and mine is not. That's why we need Voter ID laws. After all, "it doesn't even matter if it doesn't actually, at the time, disenfranchise anyone. It only matters if it could, potentially.


This X100. The ending is probably the most brilliant hook I've seen yet.
2012-07-13 02:20:51 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: More importantly, WhyKnot, you're continuing with your hypocrisy. You have never read his book. You have never looked at his list of sources or footnotes. You haven't looked at the wiki pages that the article mentions. And yet you're whining about stuff being unsubstantiated.
'Nuff said.


Why are you white knighting the DoJ? Oh I know, because Holder and Obama are democrats.

Let's not worry about the feds refusal to enforce boarders (yes I understand bush did the same, and I didn't like it then).....that Holder doesn't care about actual voter intimidation by the Black Panthers...let's not worry about the Fast and Furious gun program...let's not talk about the actual hate speech put forth by democrats against republican ...let's not worry about the doubt standard associated with criticism of sitting presidents depending upon their skin color and political affiliation....no, we should absolutely be worries about states saying that people should provide a photo ID to vote.
2012-07-13 02:10:25 PM
1 votes:

Kazan: Mrbogey: Kazan: give me doughnuts: Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?


part of california's issues is insufficient taxation. voter initiative to limit taxation, the a bunch of voter initiative mandated spending. you cannot have both.


I hear ya. Our problem is also a legislature that is in the pocket of the public employee unions...but let's not have that discussion now.
2012-07-13 02:07:39 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: More importantly, WhyKnot, you're continuing with your hypocrisy. You have never read his book. You have never looked at his list of sources or footnotes. You haven't looked at the wiki pages that the article mentions. And yet you're whining about stuff being unsubstantiated.
'Nuff said.


From the article:

"In fact, Kousser admitted that he got many of the 'facts' used to buttress these bizarre claims from 'Wikipedia,'"

Why would he say wikipedia if actually pulled from the primary? I am just working from what the article said.
2012-07-13 02:06:29 PM
1 votes:

vudutek: give me doughnuts: Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?

I HAD TO SPEND $40 IN GAS TO GET A "FREE" ID. I HAD TO TAKE AN UNPAID DAY OFF WORK TO GET A "FREE" ID.

stop being such a dick, and accept this bullshiat for what it is.


Stop being a moran and admit you don't know what the hell a "poll tax" actually is.
2012-07-13 02:04:33 PM
1 votes:

WhyKnot: I really dislike politics...shady shady people on both sides...turning community against community.


I completely agree with this statement. I have no problem with differing philosophies, goals, expectations for the future, etc., but why do both sides always have to run with an "all or nothing" approach to getting things done? Why can't people accept that things are never truly black or white? Compromise. Isn't that what an educated government is supposed to be about?
2012-07-13 01:47:03 PM
1 votes:

Mrbogey: Kazan: give me doughnuts: Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?

because it isn't actually free

Kazan: "we created a free ID, but we closed your only place to get it within a 3 hours drive"

"... so you have to take a day off work [which you cannot afford] and drive 6 hours..."

where is this person with a supposed 6hr drive? Why couldn't the DoJ find them when you could?


in Wisconsin


WhyKnot: CA where we are just going to attempt to tax our way to a balanced budget


part of california's issues is insufficient taxation. voter initiative to limit taxation, the a bunch of voter initiative mandated spending. you cannot have both.
2012-07-13 01:23:14 PM
1 votes:

Cyno01: WhyKnot: Cyno01: Mr Guy: Kazan: THEY DON'T HAVE IT.

Ok, not a poll tax, how about just outright voter suppression? What if say a state passed a voter ID law, closed DMVs in areas with the highest amount of people who would need to get an ID and also instruct DMV workers not to inform citizens that the ID to vote is free...

Oh wait, WI did that.

I hate to ask, but do you have a citation for such a claim? Is there possibly an unrelated reason a DMV was closed? Was there another DMV in the same area and so maybe you are making a strawman argument? I seriously doubt DMVs were closed in areas without another branch being within the same geographical area...so basically instead of a 5 minute bus ride, it was a 15 minute bus ride. As to instructing DMV workers to not inform citizens...seeing as how most DMV employees are union employees, I seriously doubt this claim.



give me doughnuts: Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?

When its policy not to tell people they can get it for free?

the classic no personal responsibility answer..."No I didn't ask if the ID was fee, but...but...but they didn't tell me it was free...now I has a sad"

No, but its a little different when a directive is handed down telling employees to specifically NOT tell people about it.

DMV Closings in democratic districts.

Not informing people voting IDs are free.

It seems unbelievable because it is so out there, but its actually happening, this sort of stuff makes you start picturing the WI GOP twirling a Snidely Whiplash like mustache.


That article says the next DMV is only 30 minutes away and they extended the hour.

Got something better?

This seems like a case of Wiki inception. Where a problem exists and cited because it keeps getting repeated.
2012-07-13 01:22:34 PM
1 votes:

Cyno01: WhyKnot: Cyno01: Mr Guy: Kazan: THEY DON'T HAVE IT.


No, but its a little different when a directive is handed down telling employees to specifically NOT tell people about it.

DMV Closings in democratic districts.

Not informing people voting IDs are free.

It seems unbelievable because it is so out there, but its actually happening, this sort of stuff makes you start picturing the WI GOP twirling a Snidely Whiplash like mustache.


Thank you.

The not telling people about the free voter IDs is shady...no going to lie. If the issue is about making sure people have the proper ID, there is zero reason to tell employees not to tell people about it.

With respect to the closing of offices, I am less inclined to find shady dealings. In a state that is actually trying to reduce it expenditures (unlike CA where we are just going to attempt to tax our way to a balanced budget), the closures are economically motivated...hell, many of the sites are "temporary sites".

I really dislike politics...shady shady people on both sides...turning community against community.
2012-07-13 01:05:08 PM
1 votes:
1.bp.blogspot.com
2012-07-13 01:00:58 PM
1 votes:

Cyno01: Mr Guy: Kazan: THEY DON'T HAVE IT.

Poll tax, grok it.



Anyone claiming positive identification is the same as a poll tax is being pretty reactionary.

Ok, not a poll tax, how about just outright voter suppression? What if say a state passed a voter ID law, closed DMVs in areas with the highest amount of people who would need to get an ID and also instruct DMV workers not to inform citizens that the ID to vote is free...

Oh wait, WI did that.


give me doughnuts: Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?

When its policy not to tell people they can get it for free?


So you'd be okay with just prosecute people with intent to abuse the law, and quit claiming the law in inherently bad.

Good, then we agree. It's not abusive to require IDs, but states can be abusive with implementing it. Fight the abuses.
2012-07-13 12:54:18 PM
1 votes:

Cyno01: Mr Guy: Kazan: THEY DON'T HAVE IT.

Ok, not a poll tax, how about just outright voter suppression? What if say a state passed a voter ID law, closed DMVs in areas with the highest amount of people who would need to get an ID and also instruct DMV workers not to inform citizens that the ID to vote is free...

Oh wait, WI did that.


I hate to ask, but do you have a citation for such a claim? Is there possibly an unrelated reason a DMV was closed? Was there another DMV in the same area and so maybe you are making a strawman argument? I seriously doubt DMVs were closed in areas without another branch being within the same geographical area...so basically instead of a 5 minute bus ride, it was a 15 minute bus ride. As to instructing DMV workers to not inform citizens...seeing as how most DMV employees are union employees, I seriously doubt this claim.



give me doughnuts: Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?

When its policy not to tell people they can get it for free?


the classic no personal responsibility answer..."No I didn't ask if the ID was fee, but...but...but they didn't tell me it was free...now I has a sad"
2012-07-13 12:44:23 PM
1 votes:

Cyno01: Mr Guy: Kazan: THEY DON'T HAVE IT.

Poll tax, grok it.



Anyone claiming positive identification is the same as a poll tax is being pretty reactionary.

Ok, not a poll tax, how about just outright voter suppression? What if say a state passed a voter ID law, closed DMVs in areas with the highest amount of people who would need to get an ID and also instruct DMV workers not to inform citizens that the ID to vote is free...

Oh wait, WI did that.


give me doughnuts: Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?

When its policy not to tell people they can get it for free?


Still free. Try again.
2012-07-13 12:41:55 PM
1 votes:

Mr Guy: Kazan: THEY DON'T HAVE IT.

Poll tax, grok it.



Anyone claiming positive identification is the same as a poll tax is being pretty reactionary.


Ok, not a poll tax, how about just outright voter suppression? What if say a state passed a voter ID law, closed DMVs in areas with the highest amount of people who would need to get an ID and also instruct DMV workers not to inform citizens that the ID to vote is free...

Oh wait, WI did that.


give me doughnuts: Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?


When its policy not to tell people they can get it for free?
2012-07-13 12:36:30 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: Notice there's a subtle shift in context before Wiki is mentioned in the article:


Nice try, Subs.


to be fair, the 'expert' is testifying as an expert (someone with specialized knowledge of a particular field such that his/her knowledge is beyond that of the average person)...his book is going to be a part of his knowledge base with establishes him as an expert... proving his book is basically a load of crap, gathered from unsubstantiated data....well yeah, that sort of shoots a hole in his testimony and raises serious questions about his 'expert' status in the subject matter he is testifying about.

I am really tired of hearing about how racist the right is; seriously the racist tag is now an acceptable talking point on anything the right tries to do. STOP ACTING LIKE A VICTIM.

What is wrong with being required to establish you are who you say you are with respect to being able to vote?
2012-07-13 12:34:31 PM
1 votes:
It's too easy to be eligible to vote. All you have to do is be born in this country and manage to stay alive for 18 years.

I had a dog that managed to do that.
2012-07-13 12:20:57 PM
1 votes:
Voting requires me to go to the voting poll... this takes either gas to put in the car, or food in my belly so I can walk, and in essence, amounts to a poll tax. They should just call me and ask for my vote... which requires me to own a phone and there a phone poll tax. *sigh* I just can't win.
2012-07-13 12:15:27 PM
1 votes:

Kazan: Mr Guy: Kazan: THEY DON'T HAVE IT.

Poll tax, grok it.



Anyone claiming positive identification is the same as a poll tax is being pretty reactionary.

um.. no

give me doughnuts: Kazan: who the fark is this website? try posting again with a reliable source derpmitter

let's start with

feds could not produce a single person, or provide the name of a single person, who will legitimately be unable to vote due to voter i.d.

THEY DON'T HAVE IT.

Poll tax, grok it.

How is a free ID a "tax"?

look at Wisconsin

"we created a free ID, but we closed your only place to get it within a 3 hours drive"


Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?
2012-07-13 12:04:19 PM
1 votes:
It would be refreshing if there were at least one word of truth in that FA.

The US District Court has not yet ruled on this case (closing arguments were just presented this morning) and other news sources make no mention of the DOJ attorney flubbing his case. Texas sued the DOJ and they must prove that their law isn't discriminatory, not just that the DOJs numbers are wrong and that the sources of those numbers are unreliable.
2012-07-13 12:01:55 PM
1 votes:
Notice there's a subtle shift in context before Wiki is mentioned in the article:

Paragraph 1, talking about testimony by Kousser on the stand:
Another Department of Justice 'expert' testified that the Legislature 'intended' to discriminate against minorities when it passed the Voter I.D. bill. But J. Morgan Kousser's comments under cross examination show he knows little to nothing about the Texas Legislature (he referred to State Sen. Leticia Van De Putte as the enate Minority Leader, a position that doesn't exist in the Texas Legislature) and lawyers for the state pointed out that he said the U.S. Supreme Court ruling which upheld a similar voter i.d. law in Indiana, a decision which was written by Justices O'Connor, Kennedy, Scalia, Rehnquist, and Thomas, was written so the five, laughably, could 'promote white supremacy.'

Now, paragraph 2, talking about a book written by Kousser:
Kousser also claimed in a book that Republicans are 'not legitimate representatives' of minority communities, and that any African American or Hispanic who supports voter i.d. 'has been manipulated and misled by Republicans.

Which means that paragraph 3, when they talk about Wiki, would seem to apply to the book, and not testimony on the stand:
In fact, Kousser admitted that he got many of the 'facts' used to buttress these bizarre claims from 'Wikipedia,' an on line encyclopedia that anybody, including Kousser himself, can upload information onto.

Nice try, Subs.
2012-07-13 12:00:19 PM
1 votes:
Rodriguez testified that she 'doesn't have time' to go the DPS office to obtain the voter i.d. card, but she testified she had plenty of time to fly more than 1500 miles to Baltimore, catch a train to Washington DC, and sit for hours in a federal courtroom to testify about how unfair the Texas voter i.d. law is.


*facepalm*
2012-07-13 11:58:35 AM
1 votes:
Did I read the article right and they shot down the wikipedia sourcing with phone surveys?
2012-07-13 11:28:58 AM
1 votes:
Here is a link to another article that seems to be legit.

http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/harvard-professor-texas- v oter-id-law-would-disproportionately-2415809.html
2012-07-13 09:39:12 AM
1 votes:
Anyone defending poll taxes is anti-American and/or racist and/or a complete asshole. Unfortunately that include a ton of people in this country, which explains a lot.
 
Displayed 32 of 32 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report