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(Mega 949)   If your star witness got his information from Wikipedia, you may want to rethink your legal strategy. THIS INCLUDES YOU, U.S. Department of Justice   (mega949.com) divider line 116
    More: Fail, U.S. Department of Justice, Wikipedia, vote-by-mails, expert witnesses, East Texas, Texas Legislature, Texas, crossexaminations  
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9736 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jul 2012 at 11:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-13 03:41:33 PM

give me doughnuts: Stop being a moran and admit you don't know what the hell a "poll tax" actually is.


I said : "Careful with that axe, Eugene"!

WhyKnot: .that Holder doesn't care about actual voter intimidation by the Black Panthers


Oh, dear. You are undone.

JohnAnnArbor: Students are more straightforward. At Marquette University in Milwaukee, where the campus newspaper polled 1,000 of them, 174 said they voted two, three or four times.

One told The Times he voted twice for Bush--once at a polling place on the Marquette campus and then by absentee ballot in Florida, where he would have been among those who gave Bush his whisper-thin margin.

"It's easy to vote more than once," the student said. "No one seems to care."


How would an ID law have prevented this?
 
2012-07-13 03:49:45 PM

give me doughnuts: vudutek: give me doughnuts: Answer the question: How is a free ID a "tax"?

I HAD TO SPEND $40 IN GAS TO GET A "FREE" ID. I HAD TO TAKE AN UNPAID DAY OFF WORK TO GET A "FREE" ID.

stop being such a dick, and accept this bullshiat for what it is.

If you're burning gas to drive to get the ID, then you already have all the ID you need to vote.
If you have a job, then you already have all the ID you need to vote.

Once again, stop being such a moran.


I think the problem here is that people have latched onto the most well-known of the Jim Crow laws, i.e. the Poll Tax, when it's not really the best equivalency to use. Yes, there's probably some cost involved on a second- or third-removed way (take a day off of work, etc.) but it's not precisely a tax.

A better equivalency to use would be that of the Literacy Test. It may not cost anything directly, but the design of the law is specifically aimed at stopping a certain subset of people from voting by imposing a requirement which is unduly difficult for that subset (e.g. get to the DMV when you have no car to use and have to work on all the days DMV is open) while being easy on the established voters.

Basically, this is "Literacy Tests 2.0". That's why it'll be struck down.
 
2012-07-13 04:11:35 PM

JackieRabbit: Tell us this: if illegal aliens are voting by the millions, why is it that every single election we have anymore is so close?


They can't read?
 
2012-07-13 04:21:05 PM

StaleCoffee: JackieRabbit: Tell us this: if illegal aliens are voting by the millions, why is it that every single election we have anymore is so close?

They can't read?


Perhaps it could be that they would be loses that otherwise put it into the W column because of illegals? How else do you figure a party that represents 1/4 of the views if the nation is beating out an opposing view representing 1/2 the nation(these numbers are rounded mind you)? Other than laziness to go to the poll.
 
2012-07-13 05:01:23 PM

WhyKnot: Theaetetus: Notice there's a subtle shift in context before Wiki is mentioned in the article:


Nice try, Subs.

to be fair, the 'expert' is testifying as an expert (someone with specialized knowledge of a particular field such that his/her knowledge is beyond that of the average person)...his book is going to be a part of his knowledge base with establishes him as an expert... proving his book is basically a load of crap, gathered from unsubstantiated data....well yeah, that sort of shoots a hole in his testimony and raises serious questions about his 'expert' status in the subject matter he is testifying about.

I am really tired of hearing about how racist the right is; seriously the racist tag is now an acceptable talking point on anything the right tries to do. STOP ACTING LIKE A VICTIM.

What is wrong with being required to establish you are who you say you are with respect to being able to vote?


In this instance, the right isn't being racist. They're being discriminatory.

Against likely democratic voters.

/Karl Rove has the "numbers"
//As does "Thor Herne"
///Look up that second name and learn what astroturf is all about.
 
2012-07-13 05:07:18 PM

olddinosaur: OKAY FARKERS, HERE COME THE FACTS:

There are between 12 and 20 million illegal aliens in this country, and most of them vote.

"-----citation needed!"

I don't need one citation, I'll give you 3.4 million; go to google and key in "illegal alien voting;" you will find about 3+ million references.

Since Obama beat McCain by 69 million to 59 million, it is a fair shot, we take away the illegal alien vote and it would be a mighty tight race. This year's election promises to be even tighter, so he is doing all he can to fatten up the rolls with people likely to vote for him.

"Poll tax---" my ass! Nobody survives in this country without documents, and no one suggests minorities are less likely to drive than anyone else. People in subsidized housing have cars; homeless people on the street have cars in many cases.

It's all just a scam to steal the election.

And the suckers fall for it more often than not.


3+ million references on google just means 3+ million instances of Right Wing Echo Chamber Butt Hurt about an issue that no law enforcement entity in the nation has actually been able to document in any meaningful fashion.
 
2012-07-13 05:30:56 PM

rugman11: Marcus Aurelius: Anyone defending poll taxes is anti-American and/or racist and/or a complete asshole. Unfortunately that include a ton of people in this country, which explains a lot.

I'm still on the fence on these laws (though I live in a state that requires me produce ID to vote), but it sounds like Texas is providing free IDs to anybody who can provide a birth certificate, voter registration card, or Social Security card. In order to register to vote, residents must provide either a Driver License number or Social Security number. So anybody who registers to vote should have either a photo ID or a Social Security card (which is free to obtain). So anybody who has registered to vote should also have the documentation needed to acquire a free voter ID.


Actually, Texas DPS does not give out free photo IDs unless you're a veteran. Until last week, my job involved providing information and support for people trying to get Texas driver licenses, so I'm acutely familiar with both the ID requirements and the wide variety of reasons someone might not have any of the required ID: Here's a link to the requirements to apply for a Texas ID card:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/DriverLicense/applyforID.htm

Also, Texas doesn't accept social security cards as a primary or secondary form of ID:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/DriverLicense/identificationrequirement s. htm

(Also, you actually do need an official government-issued ID to get a social security card; they changed the requirements a while back.)

And you can currently register to vote without any form of ID:

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/pamphlets/largepamp.shtml

Voter registrations do not expire; once you register to vote, you remain registered to vote, and you don't have to re-register unless you move out of the county in which you currently reside. You don't have to have an official state ID to register to vote in Texas -- I registered without one, and showed a utility bill the first time I voted here.

There are any number of reasons someone might not have an official Texas DL/ID. Maybe they're so poor they can't afford the $16/$24 application fee, in which case the story ends right there. But that's not a huge amount of money, so sure, that's going to be pretty uncommon.

Other possibilities -- maybe they never had one, maybe they lost it, maybe it expired more than two years ago, maybe they got pulled for DUI and it was confiscated, maybe their wallet was stolen. If they also don't have any of the forms of photo ID that the DPS accepts, they *must* have one of the following three things:

- Original or certified copy of a birth certificate issued by the appropriate State Bureau of Vital Statistics or equivalent agency from a U.S. state, U.S. territory, the District of Columbia, or a Canadian province. A birth record issued by a hospital is not acceptable under this category.

- Original or certified copy of U.S. Dept. of State Certification of Birth Abroad (issued to U. S. citizens born abroad) (Form FS-240, DS-1350, or FS-545)

- Original or certified copy of court order with name and date of birth (DOB) indicating an official change of name and/or gender from a U.S. state, U.S. territory, the District of Columbia, or Canadian province

At this point, anyone who can't get a certified copy of one of those documents is screwed. Most people haven't had sex changes or legally changed their names, and there are plenty of reasons someone might not be able to get a certified copy of their birth certificate if they didn't already have one.

First off, maybe they can't afford that either, but again, it's not all that expensive. Even if they can afford it, if they don't have the required ID to request one and they don't have an immediate relative (husband/wife, child, parent or grandparent) who can request one on their behalf, there's no quick way to get one. (Even if you do have ID, it can take a while if you're trying to get one from out of state. For example, you can order a Texas birth certificate online and pay extra for overnight delivery, but the state takes a *minimum* of 10-15 days to process the request before it ships the certificate. The only way to get a Texas birth certificate quickly is to go to the vital records office in person.)

A surprising number of people -- especially if they're elderly, indigent, Native American, or were born on a farm out in the middle of nowhere -- just plain never had their birth officially recorded. Ordinarily they'd be able to get a birth certificate issued -- eventually -- but if their parents are deceased and the state can't find any record of their birth, they're in trouble. Lots of Hispanic and Asian people were born in the US to parents who weren't citizens; and I talked to plenty of people who were born at home so there were no hospital records; others who found out the hospital had closed years ago and no one knew what had happened to the records. One woman found out they couldn't verify her existence because the county courthouse had burned down before things were computerized.

I don't have a problem with requiring ID to vote (though honestly, why don't they just put your damn photo on the voter ID card?), what I have a problem with is the fact that the states pulling this crap are wasting legislative time on a non-issue. Non-citizens are not turning out to vote in droves, and forged voter registration cards are not a widespread issue. It's a Republican smokescreen, pure and simple, intended to trick credulous voters into thinking they're actually doing anything whatsoever other than sucking corporate cock.

/Pay no attention to the legislators behind the curtain!
 
2012-07-13 05:58:08 PM
Let's not forget the law itself is based on fraud. Bush era DOJ evidence gathering showed that there were 87 cases "nationwide", during the last election, and most of them were simple mistakes. To make likely Demoncrat voters go through hassles to vote is unconstitutional
 
2012-07-13 07:02:04 PM

iheartscotch: // is you is, or is you ain't my constituency?


Ah do believe that's "constitchency".

/don't want Fop goddammit
//i'm a Dapper Dan man
 
2012-07-13 10:35:54 PM

WhyKnot: Theaetetus: WhyKnot: I am just working from what the article said.

In other words, your post is:
WhyKnot: a load of crap, gathered from unsubstantiated data


expert witness for Attorney General Holder, Kousser also testified:

"I tell my students not to trust Wikipedia. I should not have."

Trial Transcript, Tuesday, July 10, 2012, Vol. II at p. 99-100


Amusing! Seriously, if you actually start checking the citation sources for a Wikipedia article (depending on the topic), you'll be surprised how often those links take you to dead sites or sites of "questionable integrity."
 
2012-07-13 11:58:36 PM
Professor Stephen Ansolabehere? Did he perchance present his findings on Dethklock to the Tribunal?
 
2012-07-14 12:34:55 AM

X-boxershorts: olddinosaur: OKAY FARKERS, HERE COME THE FACTS:

There are between 12 and 20 million illegal aliens in this country, and most of them vote.

"-----citation needed!"

I don't need one citation, I'll give you 3.4 million; go to google and key in "illegal alien voting;" you will find about 3+ million references.

Since Obama beat McCain by 69 million to 59 million, it is a fair shot, we take away the illegal alien vote and it would be a mighty tight race. This year's election promises to be even tighter, so he is doing all he can to fatten up the rolls with people likely to vote for him.

"Poll tax---" my ass! Nobody survives in this country without documents, and no one suggests minorities are less likely to drive than anyone else. People in subsidized housing have cars; homeless people on the street have cars in many cases.

It's all just a scam to steal the election.

And the suckers fall for it more often than not.

3+ million references on google just means 3+ million instances of Right Wing Echo Chamber Butt Hurt about an issue that no law enforcement entity in the nation has actually been able to document in any meaningful fashion.


I mean to add....

And the suckers fall for it.
 
2012-07-14 12:41:34 AM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7211330/78055375#c78055375" target="_blank">X-boxershorts</a>:</b> <i>law enforcement entity in the nation has actually been able to document in any meaningful fashion.</i>

Excepting the border patrol. Who now have lots of film to corroborate their estimates. Thx administration. I also know about 1000 illegals and I'm 1 guy. I guess you can lalala and say it's not a big problem because I haven't been shown all the people who don't want to be identified, but that's your bag. Doesn't change the reality.
 
2012-07-14 12:50:15 AM

Jack9: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7211330/78055375#c78055375" target="_blank">X-boxershorts</a>:</b> <i>law enforcement entity in the nation has actually been able to document in any meaningful fashion.</i>

Excepting the border patrol. Who now have lots of film to corroborate their estimates. Thx administration. I also know about 1000 illegals and I'm 1 guy. I guess you can lalala and say it's not a big problem because I haven't been shown all the people who don't want to be identified, but that's your bag. Doesn't change the reality.


You act as if illegal immigration is some new problem. It's been with us since 1776 dude.

Still, the Bush administration spent 5 years and millions of dollars looking for proof.

Nada. Zip. Nothing.

You are the one that lalala's when confronted with the reality that voter fraud is a false flag issue being pumped up by conservative interests and that in state after state, these laws result in impediments to legal citizens right to vote, legal citizens who are most likely to vote democrat. It's voter caging on a national scale.

Republicans couldn't win an election without it, and they know this. Their record of governance is so pathetic.
 
2012-07-14 01:38:19 AM

WhyKnot: Let's not worry about the feds refusal to enforce boarders


I had no idea there was a war on hostels.
 
2012-07-14 02:00:24 AM

gglibertine: One woman found out they couldn't verify her existence because the county courthouse had burned down before things were computerized.


That issue has been around as long as centralized records, at least as far back as the Domesday Book and probably back into Roman and even Hebrew times. I'm really surprised that as a species used to seeing and dealing with "shiat happens" every day, that we're so resistant to giving a break to anyone who has shiat happen to them that hasn't yet happened to us.

Grave_Girl: One is my mother, and it's her fault entirely (her DL is expired and she can't get an ID because of outstanding warrants for tickets she not only didn't pay but didn't make arrangements to perform community service or something similar).


She's might have been convicted of a felony failure to appear by now, and might be ineligible to vote anyway.
 
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