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(WTKR)   Pentagon looks for ways to honor drone pilots, besides a 1-UP   (wtkr.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, combat operations, honor drone  
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3090 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jul 2012 at 10:23 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-13 11:25:39 AM  

Shadow Blasko: SweetSaws: Ned Stark: Heck, dont even pay a salary. Just release the drone control program online as a freeware "game". Crowdsource the airwar.

I second this ;)

Look up "Unmanned"


Or DARPA's ACTUV game (no longer online but fun while it lasted). We're getting closer and closer to Ender's Game and don't even realize it.
 
2012-07-13 11:30:00 AM  
www.arcadeshop.com
 
2012-07-13 11:30:07 AM  

ArkPanda: When was the last time we fought a naval battle? Vietnam? But the Navy is still giving out medals I assume. The guys launching Tomahawks aren't in any danger either.


US Navy? Officially April 18, 1988. Operation Praying Mantis. Unoficially, who knows.

Not US Navy would likely be the several skirmishes against the Best Koreans in the 2001-2009 range.
 
2012-07-13 11:31:20 AM  

DrWhy: Well, that article pretty much sums up the problem.

1. They aren't physically in harms way so they aren't serving our country in combat like other soldiers, pilots, tank commanders, etc. are, so medals of the same caliber as those given in combat don't seem fair.

2. You still have to recognize what they do accomplish in order to keep up morale and performance.

What kind of medal do you give a desk jockey that kills people and breaks things in support of the war effort but is not himself in any danger?


No you don't! You need a culture of people taking pride in their work and doing a good job!

/ Why this country is going down the tubes.
 
2012-07-13 11:37:53 AM  
I saw this on Salon. They quoted the jockeys as insisting that it takes bravery to kill other people.

It doesn't take bravery to kill people from the controls of a drone. The term they're actually looking for is moral fortitude.

Sadly, that doesn't seem to be in the lexicon of the US military today.
 
2012-07-13 11:42:04 AM  
My oversight. The aforementioned Salon link, for those who want to gander at something a bit more informative.
 
2012-07-13 11:42:11 AM  
While real soldiers risk their lives, live in conditions that only the most hardcore campers tolerate, and go without seeing their families for months and sometimes years, these Chairborne Rangers get to live in comparative luxury. And they somehow need "recognition" for the lack of danger and sacrifice they have to "tolerate"?

Bull.
 
2012-07-13 11:46:17 AM  

dittybopper: Mikeyworld: Look. I'm an electrician. I wire houses. I'm damn good at what I do and I significantly impact the building of the community. Do I ever get a "Thank You"? Do I get any award for doing what I'm paid to do? Do I get any recognition for my service? You know I don't. Neither do most of you. These yokels may be working for the military, but there ain't nothing 'combat' anywhere except the mandatory uniform (Which I've had to wear in other companies).

If you decide you don't want to show up for work anymore, what happens?

If you decide that your boss is a dickhead, what happens when you call him that to his face?

What happens if you boss tells you to do something, and you decide that it's not part of your job description and refuse?


I don't know what point you're making, but:

Not showing up for work has its own rewards and penalties...like ya don't gotta get dressed, or eat

If you tell your boss that he's a dickhead (and you are the kind to do this often...), you get your own company going and try like hell not to be a dickhead. Some are such pussies that being a dick is the only method that gets the work. I try to 'team up', it's a better life.

If he tells me to swab toilets, I tell him that he's a dickhead and, depending on if my bills are caught up, do it or don't. It's always the low man's job. I don't take jobs without seniority.
 
2012-07-13 11:47:31 AM  

SweetSaws: Ned Stark: Heck, dont even pay a salary. Just release the drone control program online as a freeware "game". Crowdsource the airwar.

I second this ;)


Yeah, it's all fun and games. until the griefers and TKers start in. The griefers will be flying the drone over the ocean until it runs out of fuel, so no one can use it, and the TKers will be dropping Hellfires on the Pentagon.
 
2012-07-13 12:00:52 PM  

MythDragon: SweetSaws: Ned Stark: Heck, dont even pay a salary. Just release the drone control program online as a freeware "game". Crowdsource the airwar.

I second this ;)

Yeah, it's all fun and games. until the griefers and TKers start in. The griefers will be flying the drone over the ocean until it runs out of fuel, so no one can use it, and the TKers will be dropping Hellfires on the Pentagon.


All that could handled with software:

1)Program the drones to stay within a certain altitude and separation except at take-off and war zone.
2) Only launch weapons in designated PK areas as set up by the Pentagon
3) {Pilots are selected for the few actual drones by their skills displayed in certain video games (As shown in 'The last starfighter')
4) The games are announced on the news as video scores
 
2012-07-13 12:01:13 PM  

ArkPanda: The guys launching Tomahawks aren't in any danger either.


When my last ship fired Tomahawks for Desert Fox, Kosovo (same deployment) and Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan) pretty much every blueshirt who pushed a button in CIC got a NAM, and the officers got Legions of Merit.
 
2012-07-13 12:04:05 PM  
The Xbox Medal of Honor? The Order of Mario?
 
2012-07-13 12:07:31 PM  

Mikeyworld: If he tells me to swab toilets, I tell him that he's a dickhead and, depending on if my bills are caught up, do it or don't.


So, you don't get thrown into jail if you don't do what your boss tells you?

That can happen in the military.
 
2012-07-13 12:09:25 PM  
Giving medals to someone who kills civilian women and children is just wrong.
 
2012-07-13 12:11:16 PM  

starsrift: I saw this on Salon. They quoted the jockeys as insisting that it takes bravery to kill other people.

It doesn't take bravery to kill people from the controls of a drone. The term they're actually looking for is moral fortitude.

Sadly, that doesn't seem to be in the lexicon of the US military today.


Serial killers also have "morale fortitude".

One might imagine Jerry Sandusky was full of "morale fortitude".
 
2012-07-13 12:17:54 PM  

Alonjar: As long as we dock bonus points from their score for civilian deaths, I dont see the issue.


Actually, fine them $1000 for every civilian death - take the money and give it to the family. Have the immediate commanders pay as well. And force them to write a letter of apology. Let there be SOME kind of risk for them, other than getting fat sitting in an air conditioned room killing from the other side of the planet.

Farking cowards.
 
2012-07-13 12:22:13 PM  
Like an officer desk jockey has never received a medal? Come on, those pencil pushers pass around medals like they're candy while the front line grunts need to go above and beyond.
 
2012-07-13 12:23:23 PM  
Give them a 7-UP. It's six times better than a 1-UP, whatever the Hell that is.

And if they do a lot of damage on the ground, inscribe them on the Beavis and Butthead* Memorial TP Roll of Honor.

* See B&B, Season Four.
 
2012-07-13 12:26:16 PM  

dittybopper: Mikeyworld: If he tells me to swab toilets, I tell him that he's a dickhead and, depending on if my bills are caught up, do it or don't.

So, you don't get thrown into jail if you don't do what your boss tells you?

That can happen in the military.


That could happen even to the poor schmuck swabbin' the toilets. HE doesn't get a medal for it. The Joe who stands guard duty every third day doesn't either. Nor the guy on the front line that is shootin' it out face-to-face, he has to catch one seriously to get one.

The military is a club that gathers to rub each others genitals while honest, patriotic young guys lose their lives. Danger should be the first concideration for any medal.
 
2012-07-13 12:26:24 PM  

moto-geek: Actually, fine them $1000 for every civilian death - take the money and give it to the family. Have the immediate commanders pay as well. And force them to write a letter of apology. Let there be SOME kind of risk for them, other than getting fat sitting in an air conditioned room killing from the other side of the planet.

Farking cowards.


Enemy propaganda attacks you. It is super effective!
 
2012-07-13 12:29:33 PM  
i.imgur.com
Hey, if computer nerds can get their own warfare pins...
 
2012-07-13 12:32:35 PM  
MAD did an article mocking video games many decades ago. One of the gags was fond parents imagining the well-paying careers playing video games that awaited their precious snowflakes.

Alas, it is not easy to be a satirist. Reality gets weird faster than you can poke fun at it.

We now live in a world where it is not at all unusual for a good video gamer to make a lot of money creating, testing, or simply playing video games (gold mines, for example). And video gamers have careers in the military, doing for real what they only did once in play--causing mayhem in distant countries inhabited by people who just don't seem as real as other geeks and nerds.

Am I old-fashioned for thinking that we may be living in the hellish dystopian future imagined by people like Philip K. Dick? Isn't there some kind of red or blue pill you can take to make the real world go away?

It's pretty sad when you realize that the reason that Beavis & Butthead is so funny is that it's true. Sone it will be too tame and too ordinary to constitute satire. It will be just another slice of life reality show.
 
2012-07-13 12:35:59 PM  
Hey, I don't know about you.
But if I can fight the enemies of my nation,
from a nice cozy seat.

And live comfortably for another day to do it again,
then damn, go for it.

I'm not a coward, but my style of interaction wouldn't sync with the military style. (eh, maybe the AF, but even then)
But if we can leverage whomever we can, for as long as we can, to get as much as we can.
Then bonus.

And guess what? Experience counts for a lot, and if we can keep players for longer without getting blown up.
Then bonus.

Honor is one thing.
Resources are another.
Accomplishing things are even more.

Old saying,
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
 
2012-07-13 12:43:36 PM  

Mikeyworld: The military is a club that gathers to rub each others genitals while honest, patriotic young guys lose their lives.


2.bp.blogspot.com

Hans is trying to decide if you are a tosserlad or a ringlefinch. You are too small to be a jotnar.
 
2012-07-13 12:51:37 PM  
i117.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-13 12:56:01 PM  

Lordserb: Enemy propaganda attacks you. It is super effective!


Great. Now I am picturing a drone pilot looking at his screen excitedly chanting "Pika, Pika PIKA PIKA!" as the missle heads towards the target, then a loud throaty "CHUUUUU!" when it hits.
 
2012-07-13 01:01:23 PM  
An awards ceremony at 48k ft?
 
2012-07-13 01:06:31 PM  
*CTL-F "Cheetos"*
Leaving satisf.....

Wait, they get flight pay, the same as real pilots who risk their lives?

That's almost as hilariously sad as the lieutenant in an airborne jammer whose job is to push a button when an A1C says to.

/In other unrelated news, vanity plate spotted in Tucson on white Volvo: DR PHAP. I won't shake hands with you, bro.
 
2012-07-13 02:07:47 PM  
I take it they're miffed at the achievement being one-time-only? That's just an easy patch to fix, it could be leveled.

cdn.wikimg.net

Adding time constraints like the chickens one would be even better...

www.allpstrophies.com
 
2012-07-13 02:23:00 PM  

Fluid: Ned Stark: Heck, dont even pay a salary. Just release the drone control program online as a freeware "game". Crowdsource the airwar.

This was basically the plot of an arcade game called Virtual-On.


Plot of a recent Iron Man story arc too. Except nobody was told they were controlling real hardware.
 
2012-07-13 03:24:30 PM  

starsrift: I saw this on Salon. They quoted the jockeys as insisting that it takes bravery to kill other people.

It doesn't take bravery to kill people from the controls of a drone. The term they're actually looking for is moral fortitude.

Sadly, that doesn't seem to be in the lexicon of the US military today.


Don't expect words like that out of a military guy's mouth. Seriously.

Ever notice how much the military has in common with the boy scouts?

They have a summer camp, running around outdoors for a few weeks. They collect merit badges.

Its kinda funny.
 
2012-07-13 03:47:42 PM  
gamerinvestments.com
 
2012-07-13 04:21:36 PM  
FYI, My nephew is a pilot in the Air Force. When we was in training (about 2 years ago) the lowest scoring pilots in each unit was given a UAV (Drone) pilot position. So basically these are the worst pilots in the Air Force.... Just say... The only exception was a guy in his class who was from Las Vegas, just got married and had their first baby. He wanted to be stationed close to home so he chose UAVs..... My nephew said being a UAV pilot is the kiss of death, no chance you will ever get to fly a "real" aircraft in the Air Force once you get this position.
 
2012-07-13 04:29:44 PM  

Fluid: Some people argue the pilots shouldn't get combat recognition because they're not on the ground, in the air, or in any danger when flying the drones.

But the Pentagon told Politico the drone pilots significantly and directly impact combat operations.

Makes sense to me to reward them for their contributions to missions, rather than how likely they are to get themselves killed.


this.

This really makes sense when you think about it. Should you be rewarded for bringing your entire platoon into a dangerous situation that's likely to get you and them killed?

Or encouraged to take a safe route and achieve the same task?

Obviously not the same medals or awards for those being shot at, but seriously, given the choice, we *want* more of this kind of warfare.. it means less of *our* kids will die. I'd rather a cheap drone be blown up, and a bad pilot fired than an expensive airplane being destroyed and the life of the pilot, crew, and wing-men all being at risk at the same time.
 
2012-07-13 07:33:14 PM  
Um,

Blinkies?

;)
 
2012-07-13 07:54:20 PM  
There's a lot of armchair generals in this thread, and internet tough guys who think that the only true 'murican soldiers who deserve medals are eleven bravos.
 
2012-07-13 08:07:58 PM  

BronyMedic: There's a lot of armchair generals in this thread, and internet tough guys who think that the only true 'murican soldiers who deserve medals are eleven bravos.


C'mon, man, relax.

I think kills painted on the side of their bird(s) will suffice, no? Badges on coats? More dough?

But Valor?

Um,
 
2012-07-13 09:31:05 PM  
give it to them if they save some of our people when the shiat hits the fan. ex a well placed missile or comicazie drone in the rite spot saving a patrol.
 
2012-07-13 09:36:24 PM  

ObscureNameHere: DrWhy:
What kind of medal do you give a desk jockey that kills people and breaks things in support of the war effort but is not himself in any danger?

The White House?


same metals that artillery operators get?
 
2012-07-14 12:08:07 AM  
"Silver Nintendo with Clusters, Bubb!"

I guess this is a continuation of the cult of everyone is special.

/because it's not enough
//for you to do your job
///you want an atta boy too?
 
2012-07-14 01:13:49 AM  
Not in the UAV program, but suprisingly I sympathize with the UAV crews. Particularly the ones that fly the armed UAV's. Imagine going into work, and taking over a drone that is flying in the AO. Before you really even have a chance to wake up, comms blast with contacts across the area. As you receieve your orders to provide cover for an infantry platoon, you are ordered to attack a position. You hit your mark, but the realization comes in as you are circling over the devestation that while enemy insurgents were destroyed, they were hiding behind a group of women and children. You pulled the trigger and fired the shot. Then at the end of the day while people are still dealing with the carnage of what just happened, you ahve to pack, up, leave the war behind for 12 hours, and return to your family like you didn't just kill someone elses family...even if by accident on bad intel. And then when the alarm goes off the next morning, you wonder what the new day will bring.

I'm sorry, but people trying to relate this kind of stuff to normal jobs is ridiculous. Do you wake up every day and make life and death decisions? When you deploy to a warzone (which I have) you keep that mindset with you, and when you come home you drop it (hopefully). To spend almost every day dealing with life and death battles and the consequences of that and then have to come home and pretend like you didn't watch your brothers in arms get hit by a RPG. These guys literally never stop fighting a war.

Personally, I don't see any difference in these kind of jobs and a US Navy ship lobbing missles into a third world country and getting a campaign medal for it.
 
2012-07-15 12:10:10 AM  

mr smart the great: ObscureNameHere: DrWhy:
What kind of medal do you give a desk jockey that kills people and breaks things in support of the war effort but is not himself in any danger?

The White House?

same metals that artillery operators get?


Counterbattery fire.

Oh, and fark.
*guitar riff* yourself.
 
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