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(The Atlantic Wire)   Hillary Clinton sparks diplomatic friction with Japan after ordering all State Department staffers to fix usage of "comfort women" in documents, telling them the correct term is "enforced sex slaves"   (theatlanticwire.com) divider line 157
    More: Obvious, State Department, Clinton Sparks, comfort women, sex slavery, civil societies, documents  
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2775 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Jul 2012 at 5:08 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-12 01:18:50 PM
No comfort for Japan. Not yours.
 
2012-07-12 01:23:06 PM
Good on her for calling it like it really is.
 
2012-07-12 01:25:43 PM
Seriously, it's bullshiat. While we're at it we should start referring to their Traditionally-Justified Whale-Genocide Expeditions exactly as stated.
 
2012-07-12 01:27:41 PM
And we didn't use nuclear weapons on them during WWII either, we just had a few bombs with an unrequested fission surplus.
 
2012-07-12 01:31:07 PM
Leaving aside the Holocaust (which is something to be done sparingly), Japan gave the Nazis a real run for their money in terms of absolute human rights disgrace during WWII. They REALLY swung for the fences acting on old grudges.
 
2012-07-12 01:33:08 PM

nekom: And we didn't use nuclear weapons on them during WWII either, we just had a few bombs with an unrequested fission surplus.


Listen, it's been said time and again. The Japanese military (as confirmed by internal memos) was 100% willing, and actively planning, to grind every single Japanese soldier and civilian against the United States until they were all gone. A blaze of glory.

They accepted surrender only because we made it clear we could defeat them without them ever being able to shoot back.
 
2012-07-12 01:42:46 PM
Spin is beautiful. You can make bad things sound better if you are good.

Like "undocumented workers" over "illegal immigrants", "Super Stars" over "Professional Wrestlers", "progressive" over "liberal", and my favorite, "birther" over "racist"
 
2012-07-12 01:45:26 PM
"The Comfort of Nanking"
 
2012-07-12 01:45:50 PM

cman: "birther" over "racist"


On the list of reasons to be a birther, "Racism" appears just above "Impenetrable frothing stupidity". "The evidence" does not appear on the list.
 
2012-07-12 01:46:14 PM
I hope she finds a way to nip this in the bud.
 
2012-07-12 01:47:47 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: I hope she finds a way to nip this in the bud.


Shoehorned half-joke for the express purpose of using an antiquated racial slur.

Are you my dad?
 
2012-07-12 01:49:38 PM
I love Hillary Clinton so much. I would gladly vote for her in 2016. GLADLY.
 
2012-07-12 01:55:13 PM

kingoomieiii: Shoehorned half-joke for the express purpose of using an antiquated racial slur.

Are you my dad?


Doubtful. My kids have a sense of humor.
 
2012-07-12 02:05:02 PM
I feel like Hillary's on the "F*ck all this shiat, I'm on the road to retirement" world tour.

Good for her.
 
2012-07-12 02:06:28 PM
That's pretty awesome. Good on her.
 
2012-07-12 02:08:15 PM
Japan has been guilty of committing some of the most heinous wartime atrocities of the past 100 years.

Why should Japan be off the hook for forceably abducting Korean women to serve as sexual slaves for their troops? When you say "Comfort Women" to Koreans, they know what you're talking about and it's no big deal. But the rest of the world needs to know excatly what happened. Imagine the reaction if we tried to call Slavery "involuntary subsitence farming"?

Now, just because the DPRK has been railing against the Japanese refusal to fully address, atone for, or even admit to the true extent of the "comfort women" issue for decades, some right-wing nutjob will be certain to jump all over the Administration for "pandering to the commies". What they won't tell you is that South Korea and the entire Pacific Rim have long been calling on Japan to stop downplaying this heinous chapter in its military past.
 
2012-07-12 02:14:56 PM

cman: Spin is beautiful. You can make bad things sound better if you are good.

Like "undocumented workers" over "illegal immigrants", "Super Stars" over "Professional Wrestlers", "progressive" over "liberal", and my favorite, "birther" over "racist"


Euphemisms are supposed to make the source word sound less negative while still referring to it in a recognizable fashion. Amazingly enough, this requires that two things be true about both the word being replaced, and the word it's being replaced with:

1) The source word must actually carry a negative connotation- the broader a basis on which the connotation carries, the better (hint: "liberal" is only a dirty word to those at the right end of the perspective, whereas "fascist" tends to be a dirty word to most people, regardless of political affiliation)

2) The destination word must carry a connotation that is significantly less negative, in a relative sense and yet should ideally be able to refer to the source concept in a very recognizable way (hint: "Super Star" applies to nearly anyone with significant public recognition in any sphere, even politicians... sometimes especially politicians).

In conclusion: your statement =

img.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-12 02:23:30 PM

SkunkWerks: 2) The destination word must carry a connotation that is significantly less negative, in a relative sense and yet should ideally be able to refer to the source concept in a very recognizable way (hint: "Super Star" applies to nearly anyone with significant public recognition in any sphere, even politicians... sometimes especially politicians).


The WWE refers to it's in ring talent as Super Stars instead of wrestlers specifically because of the negative connotation.
 
2012-07-12 02:47:12 PM
Who remembers the Bataan leisurely stroll through the enchanting forest?
 
2012-07-12 02:54:20 PM

Aarontology: SkunkWerks: 2) The destination word must carry a connotation that is significantly less negative, in a relative sense and yet should ideally be able to refer to the source concept in a very recognizable way (hint: "Super Star" applies to nearly anyone with significant public recognition in any sphere, even politicians... sometimes especially politicians).

The WWE refers to it's in ring talent as Super Stars instead of wrestlers specifically because of the negative connotation.


Really?

Can't say I've ever thought much of the WWE to begin with, but I'm still going with, it's a joke that only they apparently get.

The word "super star" is so horrifyingly generic that it refers to less than nothing.

And honestly, I've always known "wrestlers" were fake... at least in the sense of the drama part of it. They're still to be commended for being astounding athletes who risk quite a lot to entertain. I honestly can't think of a reason the term would be derogatory in any way. But if you say so WWE...

Should Justin Bieber change his name for similar reasons?
 
2012-07-12 02:55:13 PM
In other news, until today, Japanese propaganda lines were considered historically accurate descriptions of the utter barbarity of Imperial Japan.

Good on Hillary.
 
2012-07-12 02:56:53 PM

SkunkWerks: Aarontology: SkunkWerks: 2) The destination word must carry a connotation that is significantly less negative, in a relative sense and yet should ideally be able to refer to the source concept in a very recognizable way (hint: "Super Star" applies to nearly anyone with significant public recognition in any sphere, even politicians... sometimes especially politicians).

The WWE refers to it's in ring talent as Super Stars instead of wrestlers specifically because of the negative connotation.

Really?

Can't say I've ever thought much of the WWE to begin with, but I'm still going with, it's a joke that only they apparently get.

The word "super star" is so horrifyingly generic that it refers to less than nothing.

And honestly, I've always known "wrestlers" were fake... at least in the sense of the drama part of it. They're still to be commended for being astounding athletes who risk quite a lot to entertain. I honestly can't think of a reason the term would be derogatory in any way. But if you say so WWE...

Should Justin Bieber change his name for similar reasons?


I was being snarky when I wrote that list. I know that Liberal only carries a negative connotation within the right.
 
2012-07-12 02:59:41 PM

cman: I was being snarky when I wrote that list.


Ah. Context carries poorly in text. Perhaps you should have tried a backhoe?
 
2012-07-12 03:05:26 PM
For fark's sake, the Germans are less upset when we bring up Nazis and the Holocaust than the Japanese get when we point out anything bad or crazy they did during WWII.

Also, it wasn't the rape of Nanking, it was the comforting of nanking.
 
2012-07-12 03:10:00 PM
When they got nuked, they had it farking coming to them.
 
2012-07-12 03:13:01 PM
Fine.

Then I propose we abandon the use of the term "internment camps" for the more palatable "temporary cultural retreat facilities."
 
2012-07-12 03:25:43 PM

sweetmelissa31: "The Comfort of Nanking"


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-07-12 03:27:23 PM
What a comfort woman might look like:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-12 03:30:13 PM
lovelypackage.com
 
2012-07-12 03:31:13 PM

Jackson Herring: [lovelypackage.com image 538x414]


Southern Rape.
 
2012-07-12 03:37:09 PM
Not to be confused with Too Close For Comfort women.

www.ejumpcut.org
 
2012-07-12 03:40:56 PM
The Rwanda De-populationing.
 
2012-07-12 03:45:53 PM

sweetmelissa31: Jackson Herring: [lovelypackage.com image 538x414]

Southern Rape.


Ray Rape.
 
2012-07-12 03:52:22 PM
I wholly support this change. Time to call it what it is instead of dancing around the issue with euphemism.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-07-12 03:53:52 PM

cman: Spin is beautiful. You can make bad things sound better if you are good.

Like "undocumented workers" over "illegal immigrants", "Super Stars" over "Professional Wrestlers", "progressive" over "liberal", and my favorite, "birther" over "racist"


Or NASCAR-dad instead of ignorant redneck.
 
2012-07-12 03:55:29 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-12 03:56:44 PM
Hillary FTW
 
2012-07-12 04:02:53 PM

SkunkWerks: Really?

Can't say I've ever thought much of the WWE to begin with, but I'm still going with, it's a joke that only they apparently get.

The word "super star" is so horrifyingly generic that it refers to less than nothing.

And honestly, I've always known "wrestlers" were fake... at least in the sense of the drama part of it. They're still to be commended for being astounding athletes who risk quite a lot to entertain. I honestly can't think of a reason the term would be derogatory in any way. But if you say so WWE...


It's not necessarily derogatory, but when most people think "wrestler" they think cartoonish characters, rigged matches, it being "fake" etc Super Star implies more of the entertainment aspect of the profession. Plus, it lets them sound more important, like "OUR SUPERSTARS ARE GOING TO BE IN YOUR TOWN"
 
2012-07-12 04:13:04 PM
That's my gal. Though, isn't "enforced sex slaves" somewhat redundant? I would think regular ol' "sex slave" would do.
 
2012-07-12 04:26:03 PM

Bloody William: For fark's sake, the Germans are less upset when we bring up Nazis and the Holocaust than the Japanese get when we point out anything bad or crazy they did during WWII.


Collectively, the Japanese seem to be in pretty deep denial about what they did during WWII. The Chinese and the Koreans, however, are very happy to remind them.
 
2012-07-12 04:28:15 PM
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
wee [TotalFark]
2012-07-12 04:51:03 PM

kingoomieiii: Japan gave the Nazis a real run for their money in terms of absolute human rights disgrace during WWII. They REALLY swung for the fences acting on old grudges.


They were arguably as bad as the Nazis, if only because of things like Unit 731 (though we were complicit by letting war criminals go in exchange for bio war information). Sure, that's not the orchestrated killing of 6 million people, but Stalin had Hitler beat if you are scoring purely on those terms.

The Germans at least recognized POWs as being human, too. The Japanese didn't treat POWs very well.

BTW, Ghost Soldiers is a decent book about the Bataan surrender, the imprisonment, and the Army's prison break three years later. The author channel Stephen Ambrose's style a bit too much, but an interesting read nonetheless.
 
2012-07-12 04:56:14 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Bloody William: For fark's sake, the Germans are less upset when we bring up Nazis and the Holocaust than the Japanese get when we point out anything bad or crazy they did during WWII.

Collectively, the Japanese seem to be in pretty deep denial about what they did during WWII. The Chinese and the Koreans, however, are very happy to remind them.


It really depends a lot on who you're talking about. Japanese government is actually fairly conservative (and, also tends to be rather corrupt in a... lackadaisical sort of way). The average Japanese person doesn't really give a whit one way or the other about China or Korea (Korean pop music and soap opera are really popular in Japan right now), but parts of the government PR have a standard issue line against certain things, and there's always the politician or two that needs to poke China or Korea with a stick (or the xenophobic activist group outside the TV station protesting that Korean soap operas are diluting the greatness of Japanese TV culture or some nonsense).

They could do better educating kids about WWII, but we could also do better educating kids about westward expansion and forced Native American "adoption", is what I'm sayin' here.
 
2012-07-12 05:04:02 PM

wee: The Germans at least recognized POWs as being human, too.


The Russians may disagree with your statement
 
2012-07-12 05:18:27 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Good on her for calling it like it really is.


Fark yeah. The Japanese can eat a dick on this one.
 
2012-07-12 05:20:10 PM
it should be the

Rape Rape of Nanking
 
2012-07-12 05:20:10 PM

Jake Havechek: When they got nuked, they had it farking coming to them.

 
2012-07-12 05:20:17 PM

Bloody William: For fark's sake, the Germans are less upset when we bring up Nazis and the Holocaust



CSB:

A friend's mom is originally from Germany, and grew up there during WWII. When he was a kid, he would watch reruns of "Hogan's Heroes" and tease/troll her by saying "No wonder the Germans lost the war....they were all stupid."
 
2012-07-12 05:21:01 PM

RexTalionis: I wholly support this change. Time to call it what it is instead of dancing around the issue with euphemism.


The interesting thing is, apparently, that the "change" is really only in the English translation. The Korean translation already has the proper connotation that does not require any background knowledge by the speaker. I'm not sure on the Japanese terminology.

Additionally, there's a split in the Japanese government as a whole about this. Prime Minister Abe Shinzo said in front of the Diet in 2007:

Abe stated in the Diet on March 26, 2007, that "I apologize here and now as Prime Minister," adding that "I express my sympathy toward the comfort women and apologize for the situation they found themselves in,"

Abe also partially revised his statements on coercion, stating: "There probably was not anyone [comfort women] who followed that path because they wanted to follow it. In the broad sense, there was coercion,"

Additionally:
In a telephone conversation with President Bush on April 3, 2007, "Prime Minister Abe affirmed that he stood by the consistent position of the Government of Japan, represented by the statement of the former Chief Cabinet Secretary Kono, and expressed heartfelt sympathy and sincere apologies to the women who suffered immeasurable pain and hardships"

Other politicians are not as... apologetic.

Basically, it's not really true that Japan as a whole is in complete denial of the situation, even at the government level.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2012-07-12 05:21:11 PM

cman: The Russians may disagree with your statement


Perhaps, but the Japanese damn near turned abusing POWs into an art form...
 
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