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(Visual.ly)   A history of HTML5, from conception to adoption   (visual.ly) divider line 43
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2492 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Jul 2012 at 5:07 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-12 03:57:47 PM
HTML5 is the most overrated internet sensation since MySpace
 
2012-07-12 05:18:28 PM
Except it's really not
 
2012-07-12 05:20:42 PM
Well, it is, in the sense that people make a lot of noise over it, in the meantime, it's not really anything new. There are plenty of nice conveniences that make developing across browsers more consistent, there are some new features that let developers deliver different kinds of content that they never would have been able to in the past.
 
2012-07-12 05:21:53 PM

cman: HTML5 is the most overrated internet sensation since MySpace


I've finally remembered to favorite you in orange as "often misguided, but often redeemable".

Can you explain to my moron designer that webkit is not another goddamn name for HTML5, Firefox is not going to "catch up to supporting webkit", and I'm not putting "faux animated CSS image masks", whatever the fark that means, in sites that need to support IE7 and 8? Please? Before I commit a felony on his face?
 
2012-07-12 05:29:24 PM
It's been adopted? Where was the adoption registry? I wanted to give it something.
 
2012-07-12 05:31:48 PM

evilmrsock: Can you explain to my moron designer that webkit is not another goddamn name for HTML5, Firefox is not going to "catch up to supporting webkit", and I'm not putting "faux animated CSS image masks", whatever the fark that means, in sites that need to support IE7 and 8? Please? Before I commit a felony on his face?


Hee hee. My wife works in advertising and she often tells me I could work as a designer at her company. I say, "No Thanks" (I have a job I actually like) and add that I'm not really technically savvy enough for the job.

Her response? "The major difference between you and the idiots at work is that you have the self awareness to admit it... but at least I could work with you and not want to kill someone.".
 
2012-07-12 05:40:15 PM
But... can it play Flash?
 
2012-07-12 05:56:11 PM
Still no cure for IPv4.
 
2012-07-12 05:57:24 PM

evilmrsock: cman: HTML5 is the most overrated internet sensation since MySpace

I've finally remembered to favorite you in orange as "often misguided, but often redeemable".

Can you explain to my moron designer that webkit is not another goddamn name for HTML5, Firefox is not going to "catch up to supporting webkit", and I'm not putting "faux animated CSS image masks", whatever the fark that means, in sites that need to support IE7 and 8? Please? Before I commit a felony on his face?


oh ffs. throttle him. now. do the rest of us front end developers a favor and just end it.

(and you can do relative miracles with microsoft specific filters, but damn are they a pain in the ass)
 
2012-07-12 05:59:55 PM
dnrtfa but there is some brilliant stuff in the HTML5 scripting side of things.

HTML 5 validation is quite elegant.

and of course we all love a good canvas job (not that I can do anything with a canvas, probably can't even draw a good CDC)
 
2012-07-12 06:13:26 PM
One big thing is holding back everything about HTML5: Internet Explorer 8.

I think in about 3 years web developers are going to be as annoyed with IE8 as we were with IE6 a couple years ago. And IE8 may have an even slower and more painful death and hold back even more of the internet than IE6 did.

Even IE9 does a barely acceptable job of catching up with web standards.

And that's not even considering the clusterfark of natively-supported audio and video formats in browsers that support HTML5. Essentially, Microsoft and Apple are dicks refusing to incorporate OGG so if you do anything with native HTML5 audio/video you need the media in two different formats. But the audio engines in all browsers are buggy as hell now so until all that junk gets resolved, Flash is going to stay.
 
2012-07-12 06:21:24 PM
Okay, can someone explain to me why Craigslist needs to be updated for HTML5? You barely need HTML 4.0 to put the Craigslist site together.
 
2012-07-12 06:21:54 PM
Conception to adoption?

Awww... Poor thing had an unwed teen mom.
 
2012-07-12 06:38:49 PM
I just deployed a new website for work this month. We are using a CSS driven CMS for the engine for it. When I was setting it up, it asked if I wanted to use HTML5. I said yes.

It looks better than our old site, but I don't know what the HTML5 did for us. Probably nothing, it would have worked either way.
 
2012-07-12 06:43:24 PM
Ok... Steve Jobs is long dead.. Can we drop the whole HTML5 charade now?
 
2012-07-12 06:59:25 PM

T.rex: Can we drop the whole HTML5 charade now?


I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of standardized data-* attributes being awesome. By far, the best feature of HTML5. Oh sure, you could hack them into any browser all the way back to IE6, but now they're not a hack. And that's delicious.
 
2012-07-12 07:01:05 PM

weiserfireman: It looks better than our old site, but I don't know what the HTML5 did for us. Probably nothing, it would have worked either way.


Odds are, it made your stylesheets much simpler. Some of the big CSS features are the ability to do simple things, like specify image borders without having to do awkward table-hacks with sliced images for the corners.
 
2012-07-12 07:13:31 PM
HTML5 is the greatest thing ever, if only for its speeding up the death of Flash, whose final breath and expiration will be celebrated in song for generations to come.
 
2012-07-12 07:17:48 PM

weiserfireman: I just deployed a new website for work this month. We are using a CSS driven CMS for the engine for it. When I was setting it up, it asked if I wanted to use HTML5. I said yes.

It looks better than our old site, but I don't know what the HTML5 did for us. Probably nothing, it would have worked either way.


A lot of what it might have done was simple changes like



to



and then a more streamlined CSS file to match, and pop some extra stuff in the header to make earlier IE versions say "shut up, you know what I mean, render the damn thing"
 
2012-07-12 07:18:29 PM

thisone: and of course we all love a good canvas job (not that I can do anything with a canvas, probably can't even draw a good CDC)


In my embedded machine control world, the has been awesome. Not because it is inherently easier to draw live charts and plots in javascript and DOM versus doing it the old way with a Java applet - the code is structurally the same.

No, it's been really awesome because my clients no longer get a bunch of pushback from their IT departments for needing to use Java in their browsers.
 
2012-07-12 07:19:53 PM
and now it's time to point and laugh at me for posting html snippets without previewing first. so ashamed!

(div class="post")(/div)

versus

(article) (/article)
 
2012-07-12 07:21:50 PM
damn I'm a moron. Yes I need to escape the tag text for

the <canvas> has been awesome
 
2012-07-12 07:37:34 PM
"WHAT" Working Group

THIRD BASE!
 
2012-07-12 07:50:35 PM
Html5 lets me use grooveshark on my ipod. Good enough for me!
 
2012-07-12 09:56:13 PM

Mad_Radhu: Okay, can someone explain to me why Craigslist needs to be updated for HTML5? You barely need HTML 4.0 to put the Craigslist site together.


The infographic specifically says that they don't use it now, but are thinking of doing a redesign. It is possible that said redesign will include an interface that doesn't look like my first homepage from 1994.
 
2012-07-12 10:03:03 PM

Yotto: Mad_Radhu: Okay, can someone explain to me why Craigslist needs to be updated for HTML5? You barely need HTML 4.0 to put the Craigslist site together.

The infographic specifically says that they don't use it now, but are thinking of doing a redesign. It is possible that said redesign will include an interface that doesn't look like my first homepage from 1994.


Yeah, but that's kind of the charm of Craigslist. If they update the site to be all snazzy and modern, I think it would take away from what makes Craigslist unique.
 
2012-07-12 11:38:09 PM
I guess it counts as "irony" that this infographic, representing the progress of HTML5 adoption, renders as a blurry, pixelated mess on an iPad 3.
 
2012-07-13 12:06:31 AM
Yeah, it is a crappy graphic on an iPad 3, but blame the 'History of JPEG' for that, not HTML5 ;-)
 
2012-07-13 12:34:48 AM
Wow such a long time for apple to fail at killing flash............
 
2012-07-13 01:13:14 AM
HTML 5 or not, most "web developers" don't understand REST at all, write horrible RPC-over-XML driven websites and generally fail to understand the basic principles HTTP was founded around. We can create wonderful new markup/scripting environments all we want, but the vast, vast majority of people producing content are horribly abusing the protocol that delivers it, or at least not utilizing it to its fullest capcaity. Stop tunneling protocols through HTTP!
 
2012-07-13 01:32:53 AM

evilmrsock: Can you explain to my moron designer that webkit is not another goddamn name for HTML5, Firefox is not going to "catch up to supporting webkit", and I'm not putting "faux animated CSS image masks", whatever the fark that means, in sites that need to support IE7 and 8? Please? Before I commit a felony on his face?


It's really easy to deal with these requests: Tell them it'll cost extra to code workarounds so that the design schema will look the same on all versions of all browsers on all platforms, billed hourly at XXX$. Make sure it's specified in the contract and project specification. They can either acquiesce to these workarounds which will cost lots of time and money for the 2% of fledgling users who might be using obscure-browser-on-weird-OS to access the site, or you can tell them to design something simpler that is easier to implement and is responsive and cross-platform compatible. But more importantly, deliver-ready on time and under budget so that everyone is happy.
 
2012-07-13 01:51:17 AM
HTML 5? Still uses Javascript, right? And CSS? And, well, HTML?

Right? Then it's shiat.
 
2012-07-13 05:48:13 AM

Ishkur: evilmrsock: Can you explain to my moron designer that webkit is not another goddamn name for HTML5, Firefox is not going to "catch up to supporting webkit", and I'm not putting "faux animated CSS image masks", whatever the fark that means, in sites that need to support IE7 and 8? Please? Before I commit a felony on his face?

It's really easy to deal with these requests: Tell them it'll cost extra to code workarounds so that the design schema will look the same on all versions of all browsers on all platforms, billed hourly at XXX$. Make sure it's specified in the contract and project specification. They can either acquiesce to these workarounds which will cost lots of time and money for the 2% of fledgling users who might be using obscure-browser-on-weird-OS to access the site, or you can tell them to design something simpler that is easier to implement and is responsive and cross-platform compatible. But more importantly, deliver-ready on time and under budget so that everyone is happy.


The best thing I've found is to have THE talk with your designers about how to leverage the capabilities of different browsers. And have the designers agree with you.

And then when you go ahead and implement it, they come back and whine that it looks different in lt IE 9.

Oh, and knowing I'd lose my job if I didn't figure out how to hack it to look and work nigh on exactly the same across all major browsers.

/happy employee
 
2012-07-13 06:35:31 AM
I think a lot of whats going on in this thread is stuff we've been talking about more or less since debating IE4 vs Netscape 4 in 1999.

The point about html that is cool: mobile development.

HTML5 should greatly facilitate the rapid development of mobile aps which will work on droid and iOS. Make a webpage in html5 the right way, looks great on your iphone, great on your galaxy, great on your tablet, great on your monitor. How cool will it be to not have to support multiple versions of a site (1 for mobile, 1 for browser, 1 for subby's mom) or if multiple versions of the presentation layer are still needed, using the same middle tier? Should be cool.
 
2012-07-13 07:59:02 AM
If the HTML5 spec calls for the adoption of webM the Apple won't support it.
 
2012-07-13 08:17:27 AM

WelldeadLink: It's been adopted? Where was the adoption registry? I wanted to give it something.


I'm more interested in the conception part. Did they film it?
 
2012-07-13 08:32:23 AM

Without Fail: If the HTML5 spec calls for the adoption of webM the Apple won't support it.


Rightfully so- there are no hardware decoders for WebM, making it utterly useless for mobile devices. The same is true of Ogg. While H.264 isn't perfect, at least it's well implemented.

daveinsurgent: HTML 5 or not, most "web developers" don't understand REST at all


To be fair, so many web frameworks (WebForms, I'm lookin' at you!) don't really support REST well. It's hard to understand invoking methods by URL if you don't have the ability to map methods directly to URLs.
 
2012-07-13 11:31:23 AM

Jesus McSordid: HTML 5? Still uses Javascript, right? And CSS? And, well, HTML?

Right? Then it's shiat.


They're actually extremely elegant solutions to the problem domain. If you struggle with HTML/CSS/JavaScript, you have literally no chance of surviving in any other area of software engineering.
 
2012-07-13 12:07:49 PM

Without Fail: If the HTML5 spec calls for the adoption of webM the Apple won't support it.


No hardware decoding means rapidly draining mobile batteries. I don't know why any mobile device maker or carrier would want that.
 
2012-07-13 12:39:11 PM

OriginalGamer: HTML5 is the greatest thing ever, if only for its speeding up the death of Flash, whose final breath and expiration will be celebrated in song for generations to come.


So how many years have people been saying this and how many more?
 
2012-07-13 01:21:20 PM

daveinsurgent: Jesus McSordid: HTML 5? Still uses Javascript, right? And CSS? And, well, HTML?

Right? Then it's shiat.

They're actually extremely elegant solutions to the problem domain. If you struggle with HTML/CSS/JavaScript, you have literally no chance of surviving in any other area of software engineering.


mmm, wouldn't say that. I work with very competent c, c++, and c# programmers who ask me (c# and most of the front end languages you care to toss at me) to do the simplest things for them, like change the font size and weight.
 
2012-07-13 06:23:19 PM

daveinsurgent: Jesus McSordid: HTML 5? Still uses Javascript, right? And CSS? And, well, HTML?

Right? Then it's shiat.

They're actually extremely elegant solutions to the problem domain. If you struggle with HTML/CSS/JavaScript, you have literally no chance of surviving in any other area of software engineering.


Literally no chance? Geez, I wish you'd told me that 36 years ago, when I started out on my career in software development.
I don't "struggle" with those technologies so much as I hate them even while I'm working with them. If you call that mess "elegant", you must be using a seriously farked up dictionary.
 
2012-07-13 10:50:12 PM
HTML5 is great, but it still doesn't address some fundamental issues with HTML.

CSS should allow for native variables, nesting, mixins and inheritance.
HTML should allow for native mixins of child HTML snippets or simply generic content. This would allow for native content management support.
JavaScript should be updated to use is files as includes and only load is when a call is made within that library.

All of these things are available through 3rd party controls, but should be native.

Oh and seriously I still can't tell a child element to be 100% height and actually scale to its parent height without some buggy table-cell layout that doesn't allow for padding? Fark that! HTML isn't just for document publication anymore, this should be supported.
 
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