ritalinchild 54: Kevin72: FTFA: "And he became very emotional, and teared up, as we were walking by the wall, in Washington D.C., with all those 58,000 American names on it," Cherry said.

I have to yell at the TV when they say "58000 people died in the war". Because 3,000,000 Vietnamese died in the war. Are they not people? That gets me really yelling at the TV. Or radio. Probably loud enough that they can hear me.

fark you.

I am sorry you feel that way, but Vietnam was our ALLY. We were fighting WITH the South Vietnamese hoping to have all of Vietnam to be free.

Kevin72: I am sorry you feel that way, but Vietnam was our ALLY. We were fighting WITH the South Vietnamese hoping to have all of Vietnam to be free.

That. Pity it didn't work out.

Al_Ed: This reminds me:

I attended a Christmas party held by a German army unit when I was in the service. Ended up at the officer's club and sat next to a much older gentleman at the bar. Through conversation he told me had joined the German army way back in the 40s.

I said something like "Huh, you and my grandfather might have been trying to kill one another". He went on to explain how sometimes there wasn't choices in life, how it was a terrible time for all involved, and how pleased he was that he and my grandfather were still alive.

He finally asked that I call my grandfather and tell him he was quite happy that he made it through WWII okay.

It was pretty cool.

CSB. For real.

Kevin72: ritalinchild 54: Kevin72: FTFA: "And he became very emotional, and teared up, as we were walking by the wall, in Washington D.C., with all those 58,000 American names on it," Cherry said.

I have to yell at the TV when they say "58000 people died in the war". Because 3,000,000 Vietnamese died in the war. Are they not people? That gets me really yelling at the TV. Or radio. Probably loud enough that they can hear me.

fark you.

I am sorry you feel that way, but Vietnam was our ALLY. We were fighting WITH the South Vietnamese hoping to have all of Vietnam to be free.

Yes, the democratic South Vietnamese freedom fighters.

probesport: fappomatic: Al_Ed: Well, at least this story had a happy ending.

Perhaps, if they'd been in Bangkok.

The queens they use would not excite you.

You're assuming I have standards.

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Kevin72: FTFA: "And he became very emotional, and teared up, as we were walking by the wall, in Washington D.C., with all those 58,000 American names on it," Cherry said.

I have to yell at the TV when they say "58000 people died in the war". Because 3,000,000 Vietnamese died in the war. Are they not people? That gets me really yelling at the TV. Or radio. Probably loud enough that they can hear me.

Do you get worked up over the Soviets or Germans who died in WWII? I bet not.

This Vietnamese guy is one up on you.

No I do not feel bad about the Germans who died in World War ll. they were the aggressors and were outright evil. The South Vietnamese were our allies, and we were fighting with the hope that all Vietnam could be free. And yes I side with the Russians of that era who were also our allies and sacrificed enormously to stop Hitler and the Nazis.

Kevin72: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Kevin72: FTFA: "And he became very emotional, and teared up, as we were walking by the wall, in Washington D.C., with all those 58,000 American names on it," Cherry said.

I have to yell at the TV when they say "58000 people died in the war". Because 3,000,000 Vietnamese died in the war. Are they not people? That gets me really yelling at the TV. Or radio. Probably loud enough that they can hear me.

Do you get worked up over the Soviets or Germans who died in WWII? I bet not.

This Vietnamese guy is one up on you.

No I do not feel bad about the Germans who died in World War ll. they were the aggressors and were outright evil. The South Vietnamese were our allies, and we were fighting with the hope that all Vietnam could be free. And yes I side with the Russians of that era who were also our allies and sacrificed enormously to stop Hitler and the Nazis.

The South Vietnamese were fighting for the same democracy that the North Vietnamese were fight for. That is, none at all.

Kevin72: ritalinchild 54: Kevin72: FTFA: "And he became very emotional, and teared up, as we were walking by the wall, in Washington D.C., with all those 58,000 American names on it," Cherry said.

I have to yell at the TV when they say "58000 people died in the war". Because 3,000,000 Vietnamese died in the war. Are they not people? That gets me really yelling at the TV. Or radio. Probably loud enough that they can hear me.

fark you.

I am sorry you feel that way, but Vietnam was our ALLY. We were fighting WITH the South Vietnamese hoping to have all of Vietnam to be free.

US Memorial about US servicemen. Let whatever government that represents the ARVN set up their own memorial.


To restate my original comment===== fark you.

/yes I am sensitive about this.


//how old are you? I know this has no bearing but.....

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: The comments to that article are pretty amusing. Some folks really, really want to make it clear that he's ethnically Chinese.

Asia is a damn weird place full of ancient enmities and strangely specific outright-racist beliefs which get in the way of otherwise rational decisions. Did you know that almost zero people in Vietnam hate France and USA? The farthest they will go is to say that they kicked the butts of both in a small war in the last few decades, but they love the fark out of French food and cash money from both nations. If you are a businessman looking to expand into foreign nations, you can't go wrong with Vietnam, they will happily bend over backwards to work with you to reach an amenable agreement for both sides.

Unless you're Chinese, that is.

You see, France and USA spent a few years trying to pin down Vietnam and then shrugged and limped home. China has spent over a thousand years attempting to eradicate Vietnam and replace it with Chinese plants. There's not one living person in Vietnam who isn't keenly aware of both facts.

The Vietnam War was a blight on the USA in particular and gave an entire generation cause for extreme anguish. For the Vietnamese people, it wasn't as bad as what they had experienced first-hand for over a thousand years at the hands of their eternal foe.

Go there. Talk to the people. Ask them what they think of USA and what they think of China.

So maybe one day we can get these brave airmen to meet the saliors they fought against.

Oh wait....

/Side note: 'Kamikaze' means 'divine wind' in Japanese. My exwife is Japanese. One time I farted and yelled out 'Kamikaze!'. She did *not* find it funny.

Unavailable for comment.

ritalinchild 54: Kevin72: ritalinchild 54: Kevin72: FTFA: "And he became very emotional, and teared up, as we were walking by the wall, in Washington D.C., with all those 58,000 American names on it," Cherry said.

I have to yell at the TV when they say "58000 people died in the war". Because 3,000,000 Vietnamese died in the war. Are they not people? That gets me really yelling at the TV. Or radio. Probably loud enough that they can hear me.

fark you.

I am sorry you feel that way, but Vietnam was our ALLY. We were fighting WITH the South Vietnamese hoping to have all of Vietnam to be free.

US Memorial about US servicemen. Let whatever government that represents the ARVN set up their own memorial.


To restate my original comment===== fark you.

/yes I am sensitive about this.


//how old are you? I know this has no bearing but.....

I'm not talking about the memorial. That properly should only talk about the 58,000 Americans. I'm talking about TV and radio who give some blurb then add "58,000 PEOPLE died in the war".

I am 56 years old.

Thank you, Casual Disregard

MythDragon: So maybe one day we can get these brave airmen to meet the saliors they fought against.
[i.telegraph.co.uk image 360x249]
Oh wait....

/Side note: 'Kamikaze' means 'divine wind' in Japanese. My exwife is Japanese. One time I farted and yelled out 'Kamikaze!'. She did *not* find it funny.

I think they did better than the planned "Bukkake" pilots...they would have been easily splashed...

spentmiles: After what I saw in Nam, I can't even walk into a Chinese Buffet without coldcocking the waitress.

What did you see? Did you eat at local restaurants there?

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Kevin72: I'm not talking about the memorial. That properly should only talk about the 58,000 Americans. I'm talking about TV and radio who give some blurb then add "58,000 PEOPLE died in the war".

So you yell at the documentaries that don't include the deaths of soldiers in every single allied country in WWII, right? With just as much fervor?

Yeah, didn't think so. Calm down, Spanky.

I'm not talking about documentaries. Oh to hell with TV news, I don't even watch it any more now that i think of it because of things like this. Drew and his book are/is right. "It's not news, it's FARK!"

Inflatable Rhetoric: spentmiles: After what I saw in Nam, I can't even walk into a Chinese Buffet without coldcocking the waitress.

What did you see? Did you eat at local restaurants there?

I saw a VC Solider pick up a little Vietnamese baby. With one hand, he held it by the wrist; with the other, he held it by the opposite ankle. Then he pulled it right in half, laughing.

In the POW camp, I watched three VC soldiers rape my best friend, first with their dicks, and then with their bayonets.

As I escaped the camp, I watched the skulls of the three guys in front of me explode, throwing brains all over me as I ran through their red, red mist.

Then when I finally got home, I watched a protester run up to me and spit in my face as I was stepping off the plane.

Some nights, even still, I wish I was back in the jungle. At least in the jungle you only had two options: live or die. Here in the States, you've got to do a little bit of both, every single god damn day, just to survive. It's too complicated for a man like me.

Kevin72: No I do not feel bad about the Germans who died in World War ll. they were the aggressors and were outright evil. The South Vietnamese were our allies, and we were fighting with the hope that all Vietnam could be free. And yes I side with the Russians of that era who were also our allies and sacrificed enormously to stop Hitler and the Nazis.

Excuse me, but you are flat out wrong about Germany. Most of the evil ones were executed for their crimes. The rest were ordinary citizens following orders. Yes, some of the evil ones managed to escape their fates through suicide, premature death on the battlefield, and the handful who genuinely fled and hid until their natural end. But humans have a strange ability to follow orders no matter how dire. Read about Milgram's famous experiment where unexpecting participants were commanded to cause harm to actors.

We are perfectly willing to do as we are told by a perceived competent authority. It's how the Nazi evil was able to spread so rapidly and so effectively. It can happen anywhere. It can happen today. It can happen to you and everyone you hold dear. If you imagine your enemy is naturally monstrous, you should realize that you, too, could be a monster. It's so easy to do wrong.

58,000 American battle deaths but lets not forget about the 500,000! battle wounded GIs. Not to mention the unknown number of GIs suffering/destroyed by PTSD! Kudos to "Charlie" for defending their country so long and well. They were never going to give up. They defended their country just like we would have. Just look at our own civil war. (Plus don't forget the OSS supplied Ho Che Minh with weapons and training in WW2 to combat the Japanese.) I'm glad both these old warriors survived!

You must make a friend of Horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared.

Spend 16 months "in country". Have no desire to go back to sightsee. 40 plus years later I still have nightmares about that place. No sir, no need to go back.

I'm amazed at the number of people who are sticking up for the Nazis, and at the number of people unhappy at me for sticking up for the Vietnamese.

spentmiles: Inflatable Rhetoric: spentmiles: After what I saw in Nam, I can't even walk into a Chinese Buffet without coldcocking the waitress.

What did you see? Did you eat at local restaurants there?

I saw a VC Solider pick up a little Vietnamese baby. With one hand, he held it by the wrist; with the other, he held it by the opposite ankle. Then he pulled it right in half, laughing.

In the POW camp, I watched three VC soldiers rape my best friend, first with their dicks, and then with their bayonets.

As I escaped the camp, I watched the skulls of the three guys in front of me explode, throwing brains all over me as I ran through their red, red mist.

Then when I finally got home, I watched a protester run up to me and spit in my face as I was stepping off the plane.

Some nights, even still, I wish I was back in the jungle. At least in the jungle you only had two options: live or die. Here in the States, you've got to do a little bit of both, every single god damn day, just to survive. It's too complicated for a man like me.

I have my doubts about a person pulling a baby apart. You sure about that?

BTW, I flew medevac/dustoff for 2 years there, saw some bad stuff.

Al_Ed: spentmiles: I saw a VC Solider pick up a little Vietnamese baby. With one hand, he held it by the wrist; with the other, he held it by the opposite ankle. Then he pulled it right in half, laughing.

In the POW camp, I watched three VC soldiers rape my best friend, first with their dicks, and then with their bayonets.

As I escaped the camp, I watched the skulls of the three guys in front of me explode, throwing brains all over me as I ran through their red, red mist.

Then when I finally got home, I watched a protester run up to me and spit in my face as I was stepping off the plane.

Some nights, even still, I wish I was back in the jungle. At least in the jungle you only had two options: live or die. Here in the States, you've got to do a little bit of both, every single god damn day, just to survive. It's too complicated for a man like me.

What horror...what sheer horror! I thank you for your service to your country, brave man!

This is not spentmiles best thread by a long shot :/

/he's slacking today
//or drunk

evil man make me kill you

evil man make you kill me

Kevin72: I'm amazed at the number of people who are sticking up for the Nazis, and at the number of people unhappy at me for sticking up for the Vietnamese.

I don't think that's the full scope of the issue here. Governments go to war. Citizens either volunteer or are conscripted. The Government can surely be 100% evil. We've seen it throughout history. Not just recently, but throughout all of recorded history. Genuinely evil citizens are very rare. The vast astonishing majority of us just want to raise a family and do some good work. Sometimes the evil ones slip through the cracks. We can't catch them all, unfortunately. In my opinion, the worst offender is Pol Pot. Hitler runs a close second. Hard to say who could possibly come in third. But even with those numbers, billions more have lived good lives, even as we warred with one another.

I wonder if in 40 years, there will be friendships like this between Iraqis, Afghanis, and us?

/probably not, but someone would have said that about the Vietnamese back in the day too

thecpt: I wonder if in 40 years, there will be friendships like this between Iraqis, Afghanis, and us?

/probably not, but someone would have said that about the Vietnamese back in the day too

But, there's no big religious difference between the US and Vietnam.

Gotta invoke some gods to keep a war and animosity going long term.

spentmiles: Inflatable Rhetoric: spentmiles: After what I saw in Nam, I can't even walk into a Chinese Buffet without coldcocking the waitress.

What did you see? Did you eat at local restaurants there?

I saw a VC Solider pick up a little Vietnamese baby. With one hand, he held it by the wrist; with the other, he held it by the opposite ankle. Then he pulled it right in half, laughing.

In the POW camp, I watched three VC soldiers rape my best friend, first with their dicks, and then with their bayonets.

As I escaped the camp, I watched the skulls of the three guys in front of me explode, throwing brains all over me as I ran through their red, red mist.

Then when I finally got home, I watched a protester run up to me and spit in my face as I was stepping off the plane.

Some nights, even still, I wish I was back in the jungle. At least in the jungle you only had two options: live or die. Here in the States, you've got to do a little bit of both, every single god damn day, just to survive. It's too complicated for a man like me.

I know what you mean.

Back there I could fly a gunship, I could drive a tank, I was in charge of million dollar equipment, back here I can't even hold a job *parking cars*!

spentmiles: After what I saw in Nam, I can't even walk into a Chinese Buffet without coldcocking the waitress.

Sorry, my fatigue-addled brain read this as "cuckolding" the waitress. Not sure how you'd even do that.

Saw a Hanoi tour group at the Vietnam Mar Memorial (the wall) in DC recently, it was somewhat unsettling, not sure why, just was

casual disregard: Al_Ed: spentmiles: I saw a VC Solider pick up a little Vietnamese baby. With one hand, he held it by the wrist; with the other, he held it by the opposite ankle. Then he pulled it right in half, laughing.

In the POW camp, I watched three VC soldiers rape my best friend, first with their dicks, and then with their bayonets.
Then when I finally got home, I watched a protester run up to me and spit in my face as I was stepping off the plane.

This is not spentmiles best thread by a long shot :/

/he's slacking today
//or drunk

Spentmiles writes GREAT fiction, I know, I read his blog. But you have to know it's fiction. Someone old enough to have fought in Vietnam is about 25 years off to be claiming an uncle who died of aids when a kid. The spitting upon arriving is a tipoff. There were not "spitting squads" at every airport to spit on every arriving service person returning from Vietnam, though you would think so from how much the myth that is perpetuated. Who would waste their time waiting for Joe Unkown Soldier to come back then spit and risk getting their face rearranged?

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: casual disregard: Kevin72: I'm amazed at the number of people who are sticking up for the Nazis, and at the number of people unhappy at me for sticking up for the Vietnamese.

I don't think that's the full scope of the issue here. Governments go to war. Citizens either volunteer or are conscripted. The Government can surely be 100% evil. We've seen it throughout history. Not just recently, but throughout all of recorded history. Genuinely evil citizens are very rare. The vast astonishing majority of us just want to raise a family and do some good work. Sometimes the evil ones slip through the cracks. We can't catch them all, unfortunately. In my opinion, the worst offender is Pol Pot. Hitler runs a close second. Hard to say who could possibly come in third. But even with those numbers, billions more have lived good lives, even as we warred with one another.

I remember some guy talking, maybe it was Band of Brothers, not sure, about how he was in France, walking along a road through some thick fog. Then out of the fog stepped a German infantry man, and the both stopped for a second, surprised as hell to see each other. Then they both raised their weapons and the US guy fired first, killing the German soldier.

That German soldier wasn't sitting with Hitler's inner circle planning out the Final Solution. Chances are he was just some young guy (potentially really young by that time in the war) told to suit up and go patrol some area, and who happened to be slow on the draw that day.

A lot of folks don't understand that part of war. Hell, I only understand it intellectually. I don't have the experience to go with it other than siding with my vaguely-arab-looking friends against morons in the weeks after 9/11, but you're right, it's governments that go to war. People for the most part just get dragged into it. I might not be a big fan of Pakistan's government, but like hell I'm gonna let someone take it out on one of my friends from there.

The old men start a war, then send young men to die.

Women, too, now.