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(The Star)   Even Freud's granddaughter admits he was a clown   ( divider line
    More: Obvious  
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8003 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2003 at 2:45 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

80 Comments     (+0 »)

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2003-11-14 10:04:37 AM  
I guess she's ignoring the Elektra complex she's supposed to have...
2003-11-14 10:47:08 AM  
So Freud was a fraud?
2003-11-14 10:51:12 AM  
Automatic Godwin. :P
2003-11-14 10:58:01 AM  
Electra complex is for daddy. I'm not sure what it might be called if you have a thing for grampa. Also, I don't want to know.
2003-11-14 11:53:12 AM  
Psychology historian Shamdasani says Freud was "a good marketer."

He certainly was- forCocaine.
2003-11-14 11:53:34 AM  
Cannot sleep, Freud will eat me...
Cannot sleep, Freud will eat me...
2003-11-14 12:03:41 PM  
Maybe Elektra also really loved Atreus, cola?
2003-11-14 12:24:18 PM  
But sometimes, a clown is just a clown.
2003-11-14 02:19:34 PM  
Not just a clown, but a full blown assclown.
2003-11-14 02:49:05 PM  
That does it the wedding is off. Lily and I went to that guy for premarital counseling. My trust in his abilities has been utterly shattered.


How can I ever go on?

/more sobbing
2003-11-14 02:51:02 PM  
This is old news. Most of Freud's theories have been disproven long long ago.
2003-11-14 02:54:13 PM  
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Unless you're talking to Bill or Monica.
2003-11-14 02:55:33 PM  
I don't think it's really supposed to be news, per se. But, maybe, like some sort of human interest piece about the daughter. Or criticism of the movie. Or...

You know...


Got nuthin.
2003-11-14 02:56:01 PM  
I think some of what Freud said has some validity.

Do I think men want to marry their mothers? No. Do I think most men end up marrying someone like their mother? Yeah.

Are women without fathers messed up? Bigtime!

The guy did some interesting work....I just don't read it as literally as most people. I think if you water down some of his principles they have some merit.
2003-11-14 02:56:26 PM  
Never trust a guy who's name is only one letter away from "fraud".
2003-11-14 02:56:26 PM  
Yea Freud was a twit and he still owes me 10 bucks...
2003-11-14 02:57:01 PM  
I would like to see this debated by Frasier Crane and his brother Niles.

Not because of any psychiatric perspective, just cause I find it entertaining to watch two painfully obvious homosexuals posture.
2003-11-14 02:59:35 PM  
this is no big revelation. I heard that his oedpal(and elektra) complex theories could have come from his denial of patients actually recounting real life sexual child abuse rather than his interpretation of masturbatory fantasy on their part.
2003-11-14 03:00:49 PM  
One thing that Freud did accomplish, however, was to make people more aware of their subconcious and that there are other factors in determining what makes people "the way they are". Freud, in his day, was revolutionary, but with the passage of time, his ideas have been replaced with newer theories and techniques that have been discovered in the years since. Much the same way that modern pharmacutical manufacturing techniques have replaced making penicilin with bread mold! Prior to Freud, no one really did the kind of research into the human psyche that he did. This was during a time when doctors would masterbate female paitents in order to relieve "hysteria". He helped usher in a time of advanced study into the human mind, and of course, much of the research done after him disproved many of his theories. But, without him, further research might never have taken place at all!
2003-11-14 03:03:56 PM  
I subscribe to the Fark school of psychoanalysis.

You know, traps, russia, boobies, filters, liberals, creationists, flames, SBB, boobies, beer, pelicans, hitting it, blah blah blah...
2003-11-14 03:11:53 PM  
I hardly know where to begin.

Yes, there's a lot about Freud's ideas that should be tossed out the window. One thing to remember, however, is that psychoanalysts have been tossing practically since Day One. No sooner did Freud build up a collection of followers, than those followers started rejecting some of his ideas (e.g., Erickson believed the core of human nature to be social rather than sexual, Horney denied that humans are slaves of their instincts, Adler believed the conscious to be more important than the unconscious, etc). Most psychoanalysts are not classical Freudians, so rejecting the entire field based on Freud's shortcomings is unwarranted.

There is a definite overstatement in the article of the idea that advances in biopsychology have rendered all other forms of psychology obsolete (e.g., "biology and brain chemistry accountable for psychiatric disorders and technology replacing hypothesizing"). This is most definitely not the case, especially given the continuing impact that cognitive psychology has had on the field.
2003-11-14 03:14:49 PM  
'During the golden age of psychoanalysis from 1920 to 1970, Sigmund Freud was regarded as a messiah'

Where's your messiah now? Mnyeaa mnyeaaaa...
2003-11-14 03:16:58 PM  
"I think it was a case of the Emperor's new clothes"

never cease to be amazed at the simple yet somehow mystifying way in which people are duped like flocks of sheep....
again and again
2003-11-14 03:18:19 PM  
This is like debunking Leonardo because his airplane designs didn't work: The specifics of Freud's theories may often be flawed but without him medical science, such as it is, would not exist as it does today.

And how come everybody has to be linked to Hitler these damn days?
2003-11-14 03:19:18 PM  
Freud's theories can't be disproven, because they're not scientific in the first place. Any objection you could possibly offer to his model can be assimilated as repression or resistance. I.e. you only think that his theory's are nonsense, but deep down, your just trying to ignore the fact that you're fixated on your anus and wanted to hump your Mom or Dad when you were three.
Of course that's a load of crap.

It's funny how much Freudian terminology is part of the general vocabulary though: oral fixation, anal retentive, sexually repressed, etc...
2003-11-14 03:20:49 PM  
Practically every sentence





2003-11-14 03:26:30 PM  
Freudian beliefs and psychoanalysis, he says, "were never a science..."

Not even a decent artform.
2003-11-14 03:29:55 PM  
Al Sicandar
"I think it was a case of the Emperor's new clothes"

never cease to be amazed at the simple yet somehow mystifying way in which people are duped like flocks of sheep....
again and again

Not so fast. You honestly think that in 100 years folks aren't going to look back at us and say, 'You know Valdok, isn't it amazing how people used to actually break the skin for operations and take all those crazy pills?? What the hell were they thinking? And jeez, they still had an amazing percentage of the population believing in religion... And don't even get me started on that whole 'the universe is expanding' nonsense... Boggles the mind, don't it? Now get over here and keep mentally probing my regions, you animal!"

Just my opinion, but it seems to me that it's primarily the available science/technology as it relates to culture that may be the biggest reason for us accepting something to be the status quo.
2003-11-14 03:37:29 PM  
Horney denied that humans are slaves of their instincts

Am I the only one who finds this sentence hilarious? Thanks SoT :D
2003-11-14 03:38:31 PM  
I don't know. I think some of Frued's theories make a certian amount of sense if they're read abstractly rather than literally "you want to hump your mother/father".
2003-11-14 03:39:28 PM  
The fundamental flaw in psychiatry is that it assumes, usually incorrectly, that the doctor is less crazy than the patient...
2003-11-14 03:43:16 PM  
Anyone saying this 30 years ago would have been accused of anti-semitism.

Also wehet der Wind!
2003-11-14 03:44:24 PM  
Funker Pete

It's actually pronounced "horn-AYE," but yeah, everybody laughs at her name at one time or another, especially since her major disagreements with Freud involved his views on sex and women.
2003-11-14 03:45:48 PM  
ust my opinion, but it seems to me that it's primarily the available science/technology as it relates to culture that may be the biggest reason for us accepting something to be the status quo.

Your last point is interesting. Reminds of something I read once (in a book too, not on the internet!) that we always use whatever technology is available to us as the model for our mind. So Aristotle saw it as a wax tablet; John Locke, likewise, calls its a blank slate. Freud's idea of the mind was made by analogy to the steam engine, its contents a cauldron of heat, pressure, and control mechanisms. Nowadays, people (especially cognitive psyschologists) use the computer as a model.
2003-11-14 03:49:01 PM  
Freud's theories can't be disproven, because they're not scientific in the first place.

BINGBINGBING! We have a winner! Arbiter_Eloquentiae, you have correctly identified one of the major reasons why Freud's influence within mainstream psychology is miniscule. You get to drink from... THE FIRE HOSE!

(Ignore the Freudian aspects of drinking from a fire hose, and just go with the UHF reference.)
2003-11-14 03:51:10 PM  
Wait wait wait... A PSYCHIATRIC theory turns out to be BOGUS? No way!
2003-11-14 03:51:34 PM  
Sho.. tell me about your grandvater, Shophie....
2003-11-14 03:54:49 PM  
"Penis envy, the bad mother nobody believes that stuff anymore," says Shorter.

Is it just me or is the fact that this was mentioned by someone named "Shorter" a little bit amusing?
2003-11-14 03:55:56 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
2003-11-14 04:01:50 PM  
Freudian psychology says more about Freud than psychology.
2003-11-14 04:03:04 PM  

Wow, I was actually onto something? Go figure.

Brings to mind all this talk of 'neural-net this' and 'neural-link that' in terms of computers. It's almost like it's going in reverse of what you're getting at. The more we learn about our brain, the more we try to model technology towards that blueprint. Hmm, verrrrrry interrrrrestink.
Kiz [BareFark]
2003-11-14 04:09:42 PM  
I think the dumbest thing about the article was when they said that it was impossible for drugs to affect the subconscious because "These drugs address the brain."

Uh, huh. The subconscious mind apparently isn't found in the brain. That's pretty revolutionary itself, I think. My money's on the spleen.

Psychoanalysis may be discredited these days, but the guy practically invented the theory that folks have a subconscious mind. These days all of his theories have been broken up into two categories: utter hokum, and so universally accepted that folks don't credit Freud for it anymore.
2003-11-14 04:11:47 PM  
Before we all go crazy now, you can't just dismiss Freud altogether.

And the tabula rasa aka 'blank slate' theory has likewise proven to be false.

Check out a book (even a small one!) about Jung and/or Adler - there'll be enough about Freud in either of those books to get a decent first glimpse about this whole psychology thing.

Fascinating reading for those of such interests.
2003-11-14 04:13:09 PM  
Arm Wrestle Sigmond Freud

Great Mini-game though it's too easy to win.

At least you don't have to kung-fu the Gestalt Scientists.
(now there's a good Idea for a flash game. Fight them off with your "psychoanalytical theorys"!)
2003-11-14 04:15:46 PM  
So girls aren't gonna get oral and anal fixations?

*sigh* Porn is wrong too then!
2003-11-14 04:16:29 PM  
At least you don't have to kung-fu the Gestalt Scientists.
(now there's a good Idea for a flash game. Fight them off with your "psychoanalytical theorys"!)

Just don't fight them all at once. They have great teamwork.

2003-11-14 04:17:00 PM  
Jung was a Nazi.
That is all.
2003-11-14 04:24:12 PM  
Freudian beliefs and psychoanalysis, he says, "were never a science. Freud was a fashion, and then he became unfashionable"

Baah--psychology is not a science at all. A few honest psychologists will admit it. It's more like a game in manipulating others. On top of that, as soon as one theory is advanced, some other clown comes along with a different version of it to get his own 15 minutes of fame.

That, and many other reasons, is why I won't be finishing my master's degree in psychology.
2003-11-14 04:24:20 PM  
Jung was a Nazi.
That is all.

Bzzzz. Sorry sir you are incorrect. But thanks for playing. Next contestant please!

-/lighten up, Tony.
2003-11-14 04:24:40 PM  
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