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(ESPN)   Charles Barkley: "To be honest with you, speaking for myself, to be honest, the '92 Dream Team would beat the '12 Olympic Team, to be perfectly honest with you, speaking only for myself, to be honest"   (espn.go.com) divider line 159
    More: Obvious, dream team, Kobe Bryant, usa olympic, Kevin Durant, race horses, LeBron James  
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1501 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 Jul 2012 at 10:27 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-12 07:58:48 AM
If you watch the doco on the 20 year annivesary of the 92 team, there were some pretty shuffly (read "hesitant) answers from a number of the members when asked about the Isaiah Thomas issue. Jordan was not the only one. Pippen did not want him, Jordan did not want him. The Pistons walkout cemented with selectors (see Rod Thorn's comments) that US Basketball clearly did not want the "cultivator" of the Bad Boys image being on the worlds biggest stage throwing his antics up for the world to see.

Did he deserve to be on the team? Probably.

Did US Basketball *want* him on the team? Hell no. Send the pros to the Olympics and that's the reputation you potentially get? Hell no.
 
2012-07-12 08:04:47 AM
I know it's world juniors, but Canada's 2005 team was also insanely stacked.

I accept that it was an anomaly to have all those great players on the team because of the NHL lockout, but the numbers are still crazy. The most impressive stat isn't that they outscored the competition 41-7, it's that they only allowed an average of 12 shots against per game...which made up for the fact that their goaltending talent level was well below the skill level of the rest of the team.
 
2012-07-12 08:08:18 AM

Neeek: Plus, players are just more accurate shooters than they used to be.


In what world do you live?

Look at the FG% of the guys on the dream team vs the current squad and get back to me.

Karl Malone and David Robinson would destroy the current team. There's nobody to slow them down. Mr Double Doube Love would be exposed having to play against a big will skills for the first time in his life.
 
2012-07-12 08:10:23 AM

mc_madness: Isiah Thomas was awesome on that team.

/Oh wait, Michael Jordan was a pissy grudge holding coont. Never mind.


And that was the last time Thomas ever approached awesomeness. He was given the keys to the kingdom and turned MSG into a toxic waste dump.
 
2012-07-12 08:12:06 AM

MugzyBrown: Mr Double Doube Love would be exposed having to play against a big will skills for the first time in his life.


Love would have a better chance than Chandler. But, you are right. They'd both get used.
 
2012-07-12 08:23:44 AM

R.P.M.: i think the Redeem and the Dream team would be a great match up. when a time transporter is developed, that should be the first thing


Shouldn't that first be used to try to stop everybody from trying to kill Hitler at the same time? I see a lot of time-travel friendly fire in German history on the way.
 
2012-07-12 08:41:14 AM
2012 team would crush the 92 team. This is a stupid debate. Bird is like 60 now and on disability for his back. Barkley is like 400 pounds. Even Jordan has been out of the game for a while now. Labron and gang would kill them.
 
2012-07-12 08:46:32 AM
The dream team had 11 hall of fame guys, including two of the all time greatest players ever, and you think they are going to lose to guys who wear glasses without lenses. Please send me some of what you're smoking. It must be amazing.
 
2012-07-12 08:46:42 AM
One thing is for certain, this year's team would destroy the 90's world teams just like the dream team did. International competition has gotten 100 times better.

I mean seriously, Croatia in the title game?
 
2012-07-12 08:48:16 AM

Patronick313: 92 had the best player in the history of the NBA. It also had Magic and Jordan, so I mean, I think they beat out the '12 squad.


A six-year-old Mario Chalmers?
 
2012-07-12 08:50:08 AM

cettin: I mean seriously, Croatia in the title game?


Croatia had 2 NBA all-star level players in Drazen Petrovic and Toni Kukoc
 
2012-07-12 08:50:45 AM

MugzyBrown: Neeek: Plus, players are just more accurate shooters than they used to be.

In what world do you live?

Look at the FG% of the guys on the dream team vs the current squad and get back to me.


Bonus points if you take dunks out of the equation.
 
2012-07-12 08:53:05 AM

MugzyBrown: cettin: I mean seriously, Croatia in the title game?

Croatia had 2 NBA all-star level players in Drazen Petrovic and Toni Kukoc


Didn't they hate each other over the war, or am I thinking of the wrong ones?
 
2012-07-12 08:56:30 AM
Didn't they hate each other over the war, or am I thinking of the wrong ones?

That was Petrovic and Divac.. awesome documentary.

A unified Yugoslavian team would have been a kinda decent matchup vs the Dream Team
 
2012-07-12 08:56:50 AM

The Muthaship: MugzyBrown: cettin: I mean seriously, Croatia in the title game?

Croatia had 2 NBA all-star level players in Drazen Petrovic and Toni Kukoc

Didn't they hate each other over the war, or am I thinking of the wrong ones?


You may be thinking that Petrovic, a Croat, and Vlade Divac, a Serb, did not get along. But, in fact, they were teammates back in the day and had no hard feelings while playing in the States. The 30 for 30 film on it is amazing.
 
2012-07-12 09:01:23 AM

EyeballKid: You may be thinking that Petrovic, a Croat, and Vlade Divac, a Serb, did not get along.


That was it
 
2012-07-12 09:06:01 AM

You're the jerk... jerk: Neeek: Most of the players on the 2012 team are better defenders than virtually the entire 1992 team. The game has changed and the defenses ahave gotten much better in the last 20 years. The US's real advantage is they are insanely good at defense compared to every other team.

Plus, players are just more accurate shooters than they used to be.

The current team would destroy the Dream Team.

A lost cause. Try explaining to people that over the last 20 years athletes have gotten better and that what was dominant in 1992 is likely to be mediocre today. Not only have training regiments gotten better, but strategies have been refined and players have been working at it longer. This is true in any sport. The 1927 Yankees would not beat any major league teams, the Klitschkos would destroy Ali and Roger Bannister wouldn't qualify for the state finals for a big high school.


Just because you have better individual players does not make the overall team better. During the lead-up to the 92 Dream Team there was talk about how all these individuals were going to play together, joking "there is only 1 ball and 12 ball-hogs on the court". Then an amazing thing happened, they passed the ball. Some argue this was the influence of Magic and his ability to get other players into the game with his court vision and passing abilities. Regardless, they play so unselfishly, it was ridiculous and absolute domination. They all knew how to play and move naturally without the ball. Setting screens, pick-and-rolls, the extra pass.

Also, was the reaction of the other teams, no team in the Olympics thought they had a chance. It was almost comical to see the opposing teams losing by 50 points with smiles on their faces and taking pictures from the bench of their team getting posterized. The 1992 would demolish you and you would be happy to be there and thank them for it.

One thing about this team is we have yet to see them play. If the '12 can display this type of play, it strengthens their argument that they might be better.

One good metric I think is measuring the point-differential of their victories. Will the 2012 team be able to achieve the same margin of victories as the 1992 team, no. International play has improved too much to match those numbers. Now, if they get within maybe 10 points of the 1992's amount of points per victory, then we can talk.
 
2012-07-12 09:12:38 AM

MugzyBrown: cettin: I mean seriously, Croatia in the title game?

Croatia had 2 NBA all-star level players in Drazen Petrovic and Toni Kukoc


Yes, I am aware, but I don't see the 92 Dream Team beating the current Spanish team (that has at least 4 NBA players in its lineup) by 30+, especially if Rubio was healthy.
 
2012-07-12 09:12:40 AM

jakepowers: and you think they are going to lose to guys who wear glasses without lenses.


Fun fact from reading some books about the Bulls: Scottie Pippen was among the first to do the glasses-with-no-lenses thing because he felt it made him look smarter, as someone who grew up in the backwoods.

MugzyBrown: Croatia had 2 NBA all-star level players in Drazen Petrovic and Toni Kukoc


Yeah, but it's nowhere near current world talent levels.
 
2012-07-12 09:15:17 AM

Hyjamon: Also, was the reaction of the other teams, no team in the Olympics thought they had a chance. It was almost comical to see the opposing teams losing by 50 points with smiles on their faces and taking pictures from the bench of their team getting posterized. The 1992 would demolish you and you would be happy to be there and thank them for it.


Kind of unfair to expect this of the current teams since opposing teams now have competent players who have played against these guys before and are teammates of a lot of them, so of course they're not going to be the dorks that everyone was in '92.

It's a lot tougher to beat people that actually have some skills AND will try than it is to beat a bunch of schlubs who think they've made it in life just to be on the same court.
 
2012-07-12 09:19:44 AM

spanarkelspinner: TheJoe03: BigJake: why on Earth was Laettner ever on that team

They wanted a token college player I think.

They left a spot open for an amateur. At the time Laettner was the most decorated college player out there, much more than Shaq.


The reasons why are that Laettner had previous international playing experience in the 1990 Fiba championships, he had a lot of hype from his game winning shot in the 1992 championship game, and most importantly, Coach K was an assistant.
 
2012-07-12 09:29:52 AM
There's really only one way to find out

img.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-12 09:32:21 AM

buckeyebrain: If Ric Flair can go through predetermined events at his age, what's stopping the Dream Team from setting up a grudge match?


Flair still has to wrestle. Nobody on the Dream Team does
 
2012-07-12 09:32:28 AM

ongbok: The reasons why are that Laettner had previous international playing experience in the 1990 Fiba championships, he had a lot of hype from his game winning shot in the 1992 championship game, and most importantly, Coach K was an assistant.


He was also the Naismith award winner as the best player in college basketball in 1992 and a back-to-back NCAA champion. If you had to pick a college player, you'd have been stupid not to pick him at the time.
 
2012-07-12 09:33:15 AM

DoctorRock: Also, he's right. Will someone please explain to me what Blake Griffin is doing on this team? A forward who isn't a jump shooter is not a good look for international play. Can't we just play Kevin Love for 48 minutes?

do they call offensive fouls and over the back in international play? if not, then he was a great addition to the team


Why would they call something that isn't a foul?

/Referee
//Pet Peave
 
2012-07-12 09:40:46 AM

IAmRight: Hyjamon: Also, was the reaction of the other teams, no team in the Olympics thought they had a chance. It was almost comical to see the opposing teams losing by 50 points with smiles on their faces and taking pictures from the bench of their team getting posterized. The 1992 would demolish you and you would be happy to be there and thank them for it.

Kind of unfair to expect this of the current teams since opposing teams now have competent players who have played against these guys before and are teammates of a lot of them, so of course they're not going to be the dorks that everyone was in '92.

It's a lot tougher to beat people that actually have some skills AND will try than it is to beat a bunch of schlubs who think they've made it in life just to be on the same court.


Good points, and this is one of the questions of this debate, since they cannot play each other, how do we compare? If we look at shear domination, I think the 1992 is THE greatest in all of history. If the USA were to stack our baseball team with all-star pros from MLB, I don't think we would see the same level of domination, same with hockey and we already know the results of soccer. So, I don't think we can honestly compare by domination. But what the 1992 team achieved at the international level was just amazing.

The topic does make for good sports bar discussions. Personally, I think the perimeter players would match up well, I just don't see the 2012 team having the weapons or means to match up in the paint.
 
2012-07-12 09:44:45 AM

DoBeDoBeDo: Why would they call something that isn't a foul?

/Referee
//Pet Peave


A referee AND a pedant?

Whodathunkit?
 
2012-07-12 09:49:48 AM
Ok I just simmed this on WhatifSports myself and in a best of 7, Dream team '92 won 4 games to 1. I even gave Team '12 the home court advantage in the series.

Discussion over forever
 
2012-07-12 09:52:51 AM
Oh and awesome sauce is Magic Johnson hits the series winning shot with no time left:

Link
 
2012-07-12 10:02:51 AM
Maybe the 2012 team should win the gold before they start running their mouths.
 
2012-07-12 10:03:47 AM
Who would referee the game?

Would it be '92 style refs, or the pansy ass 2012 refs?

If the game would be officiated with 2012 "rules" the 2012 team would shoot 70 free throws per game, and probably win. If it was refed as 1992 "rules" the 2012 team would be bloodied, bruised and lose by 30 points.
 
2012-07-12 10:07:56 AM

Broktun: Who would referee the game?


I don't care who referees it, I just want to know which team the referees bet on.
 
2012-07-12 10:08:49 AM
Position by position:

Center
Ewing, Robinson vs Tyson Chandler

Power Forward
Malone, Barkley, Laettner vs Griffin, Love

Small Forward
Bird, Pippen, Mullin vs Durant(he can play the 3 or 4 really), Lebron, Anthony

Shooting Guard
Drexler, Jordan vs Kobe, Igouldala, Harden

Point Guard
Magic Johnson vs Paul, Deron, Westbrook


Now Bird, Drexler and Johnson were in the twilight of their careers and wern't everything we remember them being in their haydays. That being said, real contraversial take there Charles. Yeesh.
 
2012-07-12 10:11:19 AM

Broktun: If the game would be officiated with 2012 "rules" the 2012 team would shoot 70 free throws per game, and probably win. If it was refed as 1992 "rules" the 2012 team would be bloodied, bruised and lose by 30 points.


If it were reffed by 1992 rules the 2012 team would adjust to 1992 rules and Griffin, LeBron, and Chandler would start mugging people. Love can throw some elbows too.

I don't give the 2012 team much of a chance because they don't match up very well inside, but this idea that teams play for fouls because that's all they can do rather than because it's the best way to win within the current rules of the game is pretty silly.
 
2012-07-12 10:13:40 AM
Why again do we have NBA players in the Olympics, which is supposed to be amateur athletes?
 
2012-07-12 10:15:24 AM

TheGreatGazoo: Why again do we have NBA players in the Olympics, which is supposed to be amateur athletes?


Because communism!
 
2012-07-12 10:16:57 AM

TheGreatGazoo: Why again do we have NBA players in the Olympics, which is supposed to be amateur athletes?


because 30 years ago called and wanted to let you know that professionals are in pretty much every event in the olympics
 
2012-07-12 10:17:03 AM

cettin: Yes, I am aware, but I don't see the 92 Dream Team beating the current Spanish team (that has at least 4 NBA players in its lineup) by 30+, especially if Rubio was healthy.


Really? Because the Dream Team had 12 guys in the NBA. Eleven of whom are in the Hall of Fame.

Fact is, it's a pointless talking point that will never be proven otherwise - judging teams against each other from different eras is a fools errand.

Subjectively, it's a pointless talking point that will never be proven otherwise - saying any basketball team at any point in time would beat the 1992 Dream Team is trolling, and a fools errand.
 
2012-07-12 10:18:14 AM

You're the jerk... jerk: Neeek: Most of the players on the 2012 team are better defenders than virtually the entire 1992 team. The game has changed and the defenses ahave gotten much better in the last 20 years. The US's real advantage is they are insanely good at defense compared to every other team.

Plus, players are just more accurate shooters than they used to be.

The current team would destroy the Dream Team.

A lost cause. Try explaining to people that over the last 20 years athletes have gotten better and that what was dominant in 1992 is likely to be mediocre today. Not only have training regiments gotten better, but strategies have been refined and players have been working at it longer. This is true in any sport. The 1927 Yankees would not beat any major league teams, the Klitschkos would destroy Ali and Roger Bannister wouldn't qualify for the state finals for a big high school.


All I've seen from the NBA in the last 20 years is players getting lazier and lazier.

ymmv
 
2012-07-12 10:18:45 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: Igouldala


Iggy's more useful here than people are giving him credit for IMO. He's a lousy shooter, but that team already has plenty of scoring. He's a fantastic perimeter defender and a pretty good passer so he can help the team without needing to take shots.
 
2012-07-12 10:19:01 AM

The Muthaship: Broktun: Who would referee the game?

I don't care who referees it, I just want to know which team the referees Michael Jordanbet on.


ftfy
 
2012-07-12 10:21:53 AM

You're the jerk... jerk: This is true in any sport. The 1927 Yankees would not beat any major league teams, the Klitschkos would destroy Ali and Roger Bannister wouldn't qualify for the state finals for a big high school.


You are probably right about the '27 Yankees. Likely wrong about Ali. And dead wrong about Bannister.
 
2012-07-12 10:29:54 AM

buckeyebrain: If Ric Flair can go through predetermined events at his age, what's stopping the Dream Team from setting up a grudge match?


Tell Ric Flair to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the ring for 48 minutes

The Muthaship: TheGreatGazoo: Why again do we have NBA players in the Olympics, which is supposed to be amateur athletes?

Because communism!


Funny you should mention that, because that was actually one of the motivators. The USSR would stock it's Olympic team with what were essentially professionals who had the "job" of being in the military.
 
2012-07-12 10:33:45 AM

ArkAngel: Funny you should mention that, because that was actually one of the motivators.


Why is it funny? Oh, I see. You think I wasn't aware of it.....

We got tired of sending 18 year olds to get their asses kicked by Teofilo Stevenson, and the f*cking Red Army hockey team. But, when our college boys could no longer beat grown men (and Russian government officials doing the time keeping) in basketball, that clinched it.
 
2012-07-12 10:51:44 AM

Shtetl G: 2012 team would crush the 92 team. This is a stupid debate. Bird is like 60 now and on disability for his back. Barkley is like 400 pounds. Even Jordan has been out of the game for a while now. Labron and gang would kill them.


You, you.... I like you
 
2012-07-12 10:52:49 AM

you have pee hands: Palmer Eldritch: Can't we just play Kevin Love for 48 minutes?

Any time two of Durant/LeBron/Carmelo are on the floor at the same time one of them will be at the 4. Which is good, because Love doesn't really do the defense thing much.


Carmelo isn't known for his effective defensive stylings as well.
 
2012-07-12 10:55:09 AM

PunchDrunkPanda: cettin: Yes, I am aware, but I don't see the 92 Dream Team beating the current Spanish team (that has at least 4 NBA players in its lineup) by 30+, especially if Rubio was healthy.

Really? Because the Dream Team had 12 guys in the NBA. Eleven of whom are in the Hall of Fame.

Fact is, it's a pointless talking point that will never be proven otherwise - judging teams against each other from different eras is a fools errand.

Subjectively, it's a pointless talking point that will never be proven otherwise - saying any basketball team at any point in time would beat the 1992 Dream Team is trolling, and a fools errand.


Pointless, maybe, fun, yes. And I didn't say that Spain would beat them, just that they would be closer than 30 points. Some of those guys were not in their prime and some were starting to age a little in 92, so to say that they are hall of famers is even more pointless, because what put them in the hall is not being a part of the 92 team.
 
2012-07-12 10:56:35 AM

wholedamnshow: Neeek: Most of the players on the 2012 team are better defenders than virtually the entire 1992 team. The game has changed and the defenses ahave gotten much better in the last 20 years. The US's real advantage is they are insanely good at defense compared to every other team.

Plus, players are just more accurate shooters than they used to be.

The current team would destroy the Dream Team.

Besides you saying "the game has changed" nothing else in this quote is even remotely true.


I don't know about the "accurate shooters" part, but the defense part is very true. Defense in the NBA now is much better than it was in the 80s and early 90s. More complicated systems, longer and better athletes and a focus on defense by many teams on every possessions. That wasn't the case 20+ years ago.
 
2012-07-12 10:58:09 AM

You're the jerk... jerk: Neeek: Most of the players on the 2012 team are better defenders than virtually the entire 1992 team. The game has changed and the defenses ahave gotten much better in the last 20 years. The US's real advantage is they are insanely good at defense compared to every other team.

Plus, players are just more accurate shooters than they used to be.

The current team would destroy the Dream Team.

A lost cause. Try explaining to people that over the last 20 years athletes have gotten better and that what was dominant in 1992 is likely to be mediocre today. Not only have training regiments gotten better, but strategies have been refined and players have been working at it longer. This is true in any sport. The 1927 Yankees would not beat any major league teams, the Klitschkos would destroy Ali and Roger Bannister wouldn't qualify for the state finals for a big high school.


Call me crazy, I think a four minute mile will still qualify for the state finals in high school.
 
2012-07-12 11:04:44 AM

Moopy Mac: I think a four minute mile will still qualify for the state finals in high school.


It wins in most states.
 
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