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(The Daily Caller)   "The nonpartisan Fraser Institute reported that 46,159 Canadians sought medical treatment outside of Canada in 2011." So....like half?   (dailycaller.com) divider line 56
    More: Interesting, Fraser Institute, Canadians, public health care, Prince Edward Island, therapies, elective  
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4128 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jul 2012 at 1:39 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-07-11 10:07:59 PM
9 votes:
Okay.... first of all, people who live in cities near the border like Hamilton, Niagara Falls, and Windsor will sometimes go to hospitals across the border for healthcare if a hospital across the border offers the treatment or has a diagnostic device that is not available at a hospital where they live and the American hospital is closer than a Canadian hospital with the same programme or equipment. This is still covered by our government healthcare. Likewise Americans who live on the border will sometimes come across the border to get treatment in Canada if the treatment or equipment is not available where they live and the Canadian hospital is closer than the nearest American hospital that offers the same treatment or equipment, and if their health insurance will cover it.

This is hardly a case of Canadians (or Americans) "fleeing the country" for healthcare.

Likewise there are some people (in both Canada and the US) who will travel to "medical tourism" hospitals in countries such as India, Mexico, and Venezuela where they can get treatment in an environment that is more like a luxury resort than a hospital (I stayed in such a hospital in India once, very very nice). They also go there because these countries will offer dangerous, controversial, or experimental treatments and procedures that are not approved in Canada or the US. As far as I know, these procedures will not be covered by our government health care but may be covered or partially covered by private insurance.

As I said, cross border healthcare is not unheard of for both Canadian and Americans who live alone the border. The difference between the Canadians going across the border for healthcare and the Americans going across the border for healthcare is our government pays for it when we get treated in an American hospital.
2012-07-11 09:42:59 PM
9 votes:
Yeah, I was just gonna say, aren't they the right-wing group that is trying to get rid of universal healthcare in Canada?
2012-07-11 09:53:27 PM
8 votes:
The Fraser Institute is non partisan ish. The Daily Caller, not even so much. Slanted story has slippery sides.
19 weeks to get from GP to a specialist and get treated by said specialist...what for water on the knee?
less that 3% of Canadians waiting for treatment any any given time... How many 'mericans are waiting just now?
AND how many more aren't even eligible for treatment?
46k Canadians have coin extra enough to blow to jump the queue and take a few days or maybe a couple of weeks off their treatment for SOMETHING NON LIFE THREATENING. Good for them, good for the American docs treating these assholes, every body wins, but it looks bad in the press. DC, FU. KTHXBI
2012-07-11 09:46:32 PM
7 votes:
How does that compare to the number of Ameicans who had Indian surgeries or cross the border to buy pharmaceuticals in Canada or Mexico?
2012-07-11 09:40:42 PM
7 votes:
2012-07-12 12:09:47 AM
6 votes:
For those too lazy to look for the actual report, here's a link. (warning, PDF).

For those too lazy to click a link, go run your fat asses around the block a few times, then read these choice excerpts:

In 2011, a significant number of Canadians-an estimated
46,159-received treatment outside of the country.2 Increases
between 2010 and 2011 in the estimated number of patients
going outside Canada for treatment were seen in British
Columbia (5,565 to 9,180), Saskatchewan (943 to 1,221),
Manitoba (933 to 1,436), New Brunswick (282 to 526),
Nova Scotia (851 to 1,271), Prince Edward Island (44 to 54),
and Newfoundland and Labrador (130 to 433). Conversely,
Ontario (23,192 to 18,172) saw a decrease in the estimated
number of patients who received treatment outside Canada.3

SNIP

In 2011, 1.0% of all patients in Canada
were estimated to have received non-emergency medical
treatment outside Canada, the same as in 2010.


Wow, a whopping 1%!!! And it's the same as last year!! Clearly, this is a trend towards a breakdown in Canadian Health Care! Of course, this also includes elective surgeries, such as boob jobs, liposuction, and facelifts, but let's not let that ruin a good story...

So how about in the good ole US of A? What percentage get non-emergency medical care elsewhere?

Well, according to Gallup, 29% would consider going abroad for non-emergency medical treatment. But how many do?

Over the last few years, medical tourism has been steadily rising. In 2008, 540,000 Americans traveled abroad for medical procedures. In 2009, that number rose to 648,000, and in 2010 it was 878,000. It is expected to rise to 1,300,000 individuals by this year.

So we get 1.3 million, out of 310 million, or 0.41%. Of course, that number comes from the uninsured or under-insured, or those whose insurance company drops them when they get sick, right?

Of course, American Health Insurance Providers would NEVER send their patients to another country to receive medical care, right? Right?
2012-07-11 09:49:26 PM
5 votes:
So then this is a different Fraser institute than the Conservative Right-Libertarian Fraser Institute?
2012-07-12 02:14:21 AM
3 votes:
So, 34 million people in Canada.

Let's assume that 85% of those people sought medical treatment at least once last year.

That is .159%. About one sixth of one percent.

Wow, STAGGERING numbers. Especially considering that out of the 85% that go, many go multiple times in a year. Fark off, "non-partisan" Fraser Institute, you got nothing.
2012-07-12 01:29:21 AM
3 votes:
I wonder how many Americans are in or fund this Fraser Institute. Regardless, I wish we Americans would stop trying to export our shiatty, failed policies and instead stfu and focus on fixing our own problems. Perhaps by learning from other countries. Such a novel idea, ain't it.
2012-07-12 06:38:09 AM
2 votes:

Strongbeerrules: I live in Alberta. Forget this Canadian universal health coverage myth. No dental coverage, hours-long wait at so-called emergency centers, clinics telling you there're booked up and can't help you.....

Unless you have Manulife insurance though your Alanta employer. Then you get respect.


I live in PEI, so I feel your pain.

A lot of that is a shortage of doctors, though. We lose a boatload of trained professionals to the US, where they can make a lot more money. If we had the right number of staff for the population, this would be less of an issue.

a few quick "here's how things went for me" of treatment:
- male permanent birth control - 1 year wait
- diagnosed kidney tumor - 6 specialist and surgery in a week flat (not me, my uncle)
2012-07-12 04:58:17 AM
2 votes:

Strongbeerrules: I live in Alberta. Forget this Canadian universal health coverage myth. No dental coverage, hours-long wait at so-called emergency centers, clinics telling you there're booked up and can't help you.....

Unless you have Manulife insurance though your Alanta employer. Then you get respect.


Emergency rooms EVERYWHERE usually have long waits because too many stupid people go to the emergency room everytime they get the sniffles. They'll process you based on the severity of your symptoms. When I was in my motorcycle accident I got in pretty quickly. The time I thought I'd broken my finger it was a couple hours wait.

Of course there have been times I've been to the emergency room and got treated right away even though I didn't have a serious injury simply because it was a quiet night and they didn't have many patients.

As for wait times to see specialists, it all depends. The surgeon who removed the tumour from my finger was less than seven days to see. The specialist who created my orthodics I got to see the very next day. The guy who performed my vasectomy I got to see in 2 weeks. The doctor who operated on my bladder I got to see in a little less than a month.

None of those cost me a penny.
2012-07-12 03:50:57 AM
2 votes:
What's really crazy is that what you pay in the US seems to be totally random. I recently fell at an ice rink and split my head open. While I was passed out, they called an ambulance that took me ten miles to the closest hospital. After entering the ER the first person I saw wasn't a doctor or a nurse, it was a woman from finance department demanding to see my insurance information.

In the weeks that followed, the bills started coming in. Over $8000 from six different companies (apparently everything at the hospital is outsourced to independent companies0. That's over $1000 per stich. But the insurance company negotiated the rate down to around $4000. So without insurance I would have had to pay double... or negotiated with the woman from the finance department over the cost of everything as they provided it. This while bleeding from a head injury.

Even more fun is that the insurance company absolutely refuses to pay $800 ambulance bill since they claim the injury wasn't life threatening. Well, that might be true but I certainly couldn't drive myself seeing that had been knocked out and I doubt a taxi would want a passenger who was bleeding all over the place. Apparently after I came to, I was suppose to walk around the ice arena begging anyone to let me bum a ride. And this isn't even cut rate insurance. It's the best plan offered by one of the most powerful law firms in the country.
2012-07-12 02:43:29 AM
2 votes:
My parents threw the stupid farking Canadians-coming-to-the-US-for-healthcare statistic at me a few months ago. Then, a few months later when they realized one of them needed surgery and they had no insurance, they were suddenly looking into having it done in MEXICO where they could afford it.

NOT NEWS: Then they realized that Obamacare made it possible for her to get insured and have the surgery here in the States, which is what they did. FARK: They still hate Obamacare.

It's really farking evil the way these right wing @ssholes are brainwashing people into accepting a system that bankrupts you when you get sick.
2012-07-12 02:16:43 AM
2 votes:
Wait, is 19 weeks supposed to be a long time to wait for a procedure. I've had to wait longer here in the US just to get my kid's vaccinations. I had to make an appointment 6 months in advance to have my wisdom teeth out, 4 months to get in to see my GP, 4 months to see a podiatrist, etc.. Oh and guess how much of that was covered by insurance...yeah, just the vaccinations, most of them.
2012-07-12 02:13:34 AM
2 votes:
encrypted-tbn2.google.com

In 2006, 500k US folks took off for healthcare in other countries...
Link

What have you found? I'm not finding more recent stats.
2012-07-12 02:11:51 AM
2 votes:

cmb53208: Hmmm, I wonder how many of those 45,000 are Canadian retirees getting health care at hospitals in Florida?


Or Canadians who are working abroad.
2012-07-12 02:06:46 AM
2 votes:
In related news, a few million Americans sought medical treatment nowhere because they can't afford a routine doctor's visit. USA! USA! USA!
2012-07-12 01:55:09 AM
2 votes:
I like how the source document is authored by Nadeem Esmail and out of 6 references cited, he's authored 4 of them. Oh, I'm sure there's a very good explanation for this.

I am merely verbalizing.
2012-07-12 01:51:43 AM
2 votes:
What a coincidence. 46,159 is exactly how many poor people die in the US each year because we have a retarded health care system and an uninformed and stupid electorate.
2012-07-11 11:59:07 PM
2 votes:
The nonpartisan Himmler Institute reports that Jews may be controlling the international media.
2012-07-12 01:11:48 PM
1 votes:

wippit: It's not right that I have to pay a fine if I don't pay for insurance!
It's not right that I have to pay a fine if I don't pay the parking meter downtown!


Actually, it's worse. The federal government has been putting a gun to the head of taxpayers to fund these louses who end up in the E.R., Obamacare is a step towards correcting the huge deficit in personal responsibility.
2012-07-12 10:28:08 AM
1 votes:

Vegan Meat Popsicle: hey're such wildly different things that it just makes no sense at all.


I don't necessarily agree with this statement...

I don't see swing voters being dumb, since i may be considered a "swing voter" myself. I vote on issues and people i research, so i don't just vote a party line. This makes for mistakes to be made (see GW circa 2000) but i also get to learn from those mistakes and vote differently next time around.

I think the problem isn't stupidity, but laziness...

Americans are given this great gift, the gift to forge the future of our government and how that government will operate for the next x number of years. We get to determine this on every level of government, from our local mayor, to the leader of the country. In the early days, this was seen as a GREAT opportunity and everyone involved made voting a huge deal... but we got complacent...

It's now taken for granted that WE, the PEOPLE get to forge our own futures and the right to vote isn't seen as this great honor anymore. Complacency has taken hold and the only time the majority of people vote is when they feel passionate about the person or issue they are voting for...

Obama's election is a great example of passion overriding complacency. When polled most unregistered black voters said they don't vote because they don't think they are represented correctly, or that their vote doesn't matter. But 2008 changed that, suddenly there was black man up for president and black voter registration reached record height. Black voter turn out also broke records. You can youtube video of some of the voter rallies in 2008 and see the passion the black community had. Complacency was overcome by passion.

This is the typical mindset of most Americans... I haven't seen the mass reports of black voting rallies or the drive to get new black registered voters this year, and i haven't seen any reports about the registration numbers among blacks and minorities either. Either the black community has gone back to complacency, or the media is electing to not cover that information.

But what i AM seeing being covered is the now passionate white voter turn out. I'm seeing more "take back america" campaign signs, stickers and ads. i'm seeing a LOT of campaigning from the white right to other whites who don't show the same passion trying convince them to vote against obama this year. I'm seeing this first hand in my own office, from management no less.

The people with the most passion are the ones who usually get airtime and things like that, but i believe, in all reality, that there are too many american voters who just don't care.

You hear this all the time "the lesser of two evils". This paradigm is what causes many registered voters to just not show up to polls. I have friends who registered to vote in high school because we earned extra credit in history class if we did, and NEVER ONCE VOTED. When i ask them why? They don't care. Once in a while they will biatch and complain about the gov't, and that's the opportunity i get to throw it in their face that they have been a registered voter for almost 20 years and not ONCE stepped in a booth. They are all registered under the same address as their parents and some don't even live in this state anymore...

Why do you think a more liberal leaning black president was elected one year, but the house of reps went primarily conservative the following? Because while the black community got boiling with passion for the president, they went right back to complacency when it came to any follow up elections. Who were the passionate voters come mid term? the white right. they knew they could cripple the obama administration if they just get a majority in the house... passion beat complacency once again...

This country is full of lazy, complacent people who only act when passion moves them.

They are lazy in that they rarely do any real research on an issue, they let political pundits, biased analyzers, and "news" organizations do their thinking for them. They read chain emails full of half truths with sources linked to obviously misleading websites and they buy into it. Because it's easier to call yourself a conservative or a liberal, a republican or a democrat, and just do what they tell you to do than to THINK for yourself, to READ the actual bills that stir up so much crap, to RESEARCH a person's voting history and see if they are now blowing smoke up your ass or not.

But they don't, they would rather listen to someone else talk and see if what that person says will give them enough passion to get off their ass and move.

This is why the conservative pundits act the way they do, they KNOW that their listeners would fall into apathy and complacency if they don't impassion or inflame them into action. They are VERY good at that, something the left pundits haven't figured out yet. The left looks down at this tactic, trying to take the high road, but the high road doesn't motivate people to get off their ass and vote. One thing you can say about the right is they are a very motivated set of people, because their leaders are always stirring up the pot, causing controversy and generally rousing the rabble. It's what they do, and they excel at it, and it works, i just wish they weren't so damned evil. They could really make a positive difference in this world if they would stop speaking on behalf of corporations and religion, the 2 biggest enemies of peace.

In conclusion, the stupidity comes from those who DO toe a line, those that brand themselves liberal/conservative/democrat/republican because those people don't have to think, they just fall in line...

I am from the camp that says DON'T fall in line, judge based on action, and individual merit, not on what some jackboot on AM radio speaking passionately into the microphone is telling you, or what some gold trimmed preacher behind a podium is telling you...

Figure it out yourself and act accordingly...
2012-07-12 09:09:24 AM
1 votes:
I guess this is just part of the systematic attack on Canada's social contract. Let's get all the renters to buy condos so that money is transferred in larger amounts to the already rich, and transfer the risk of the mortgage to the little people. Next up, private health care. Yay!
2012-07-12 08:31:21 AM
1 votes:
So 45k Canadians elected to go to another country for HC while ≈30M Americans relied on only the ER if they needed care. Clearly the USA is better.
2012-07-12 08:29:52 AM
1 votes:

Raharu: HotWingConspiracy: Socialism is simply more mature than capitalism.

As far as medicine is concerned I would have to agree.

It's also far more christian and christ-like then most american Christians are comfortable with.


...And they're not mutually exclusive either. Mixed economies and all that.

I don't understand why many Americans can't grasp that some issues are better addressed with more Socialistic policies and others are better addressed with Capitalistic policies.
2012-07-12 08:19:11 AM
1 votes:
Looking at the actual survey the longest wait time was for "plastic surgery" and it was 21.8 weeks.Oncology on the other hand was 4 weeks. Keep in mind all these are for elective surgery and appointments.

I'd rather wait a few weeks for elective procedures than be bankrupt by unexpected necessary ones.
2012-07-12 08:01:00 AM
1 votes:

Philip Francis Queeg: pedobearapproved: vernonFL: 46,159 ?

That is less than the number of people in my COUNTY that don't have any health insurance at all.

In my state, there are over 700,000 people under 65 without health insurance.

how many of those are under 35? I didn't have real health insurance in my 20s (well, two years with a job that provided it). I had the "if your arm falls off from cancer during a car wreck you're covered" but for normal everyday dr visits I was on my own. Guess what. I spent around $200 a year on my health care (not counting the major arm falling off policy). Try and buy any health insurance for under that. People under 40 are generally healthy, many see health insurance as not a thing that's needed until you get to a place where it can help. If you asked me then if I'd rather spend $100 a month on insurance that makes my $30 drugs $5 or my future house I can tell you which.

I really don't think we should be structuring our health system around Incredibly short sighted people and their ignorant feelings of immortality.


For real. There's the ones who played the odds, predictably won, and now say "OMG, look how much money I saved in my 20s by being uninsured!"

On the other hand, there are kids in their 20s who think the same thing, and get diagnosed with cancer. Guess who ends up paying for the cancer treatment either way?

The argument basically boils down to "When I was 25, I played the lottery, and won the jackpot! Now I'm set for retirement! I have a great idea for fixing social security - why not just allow everyone to buy lottery tickets instead of paying social security taxes? Everyone would be a millionaire!"
2012-07-12 07:57:32 AM
1 votes:
On the other hand:

Driven by rising health care costs at home, nearly 1 million Californians cross the border each year to seek medical care in Mexico, according a new paper by UCLA researchers and colleagues published today in the journal Medical Care.

http://economistsview.typepad.com/
2012-07-12 07:55:19 AM
1 votes:

Animatronik: For most drugs, most development and clinical research is done by companies. The main contribution of academia is identifying targets for drugs.


Big Pharma Spends More On Advertising Than Research And Development, Study Finds

ScienceDaily (Jan. 5, 2008) - A new study by two York University researchers estimates the U.S. pharmaceutical industry spends almost twice as much on promotion as it does on research and development, contrary to the industry's claim.

The researchers' estimate is based on the systematic collection of data directly from the industry and doctors during 2004, which shows the U.S. pharmaceutical industry spent 24.4% of the sales dollar on promotion, versus 13.4% for research and development, as a percentage of US domestic sales of US$235.4 billion
2012-07-12 07:51:39 AM
1 votes:
. . . and the time a specialist provides elective treatment

So, it's a 19 week wait for a nose job? Sounds about right.


emphasis mine
2012-07-12 07:23:24 AM
1 votes:

pedobearapproved: vernonFL: 46,159 ?

That is less than the number of people in my COUNTY that don't have any health insurance at all.

In my state, there are over 700,000 people under 65 without health insurance.

how many of those are under 35? I didn't have real health insurance in my 20s (well, two years with a job that provided it). I had the "if your arm falls off from cancer during a car wreck you're covered" but for normal everyday dr visits I was on my own. Guess what. I spent around $200 a year on my health care (not counting the major arm falling off policy). Try and buy any health insurance for under that. People under 40 are generally healthy, many see health insurance as not a thing that's needed until you get to a place where it can help. If you asked me then if I'd rather spend $100 a month on insurance that makes my $30 drugs $5 or my future house I can tell you which.


I really don't think we should be structuring our health system around Incredibly short sighted people and their ignorant feelings of immortality.
2012-07-12 07:17:31 AM
1 votes:
So? Seems like a relatively small number.

I'm just going to keep on saying this, I guess:

My family has our health insurance through the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. The Health Connector was amazingly easy to navigate and we found an affordable plan that is cheaper and covers more than the plan we had through my wife's former employer (I'm self-employed). We didn't have to change any doctors or specialists and there was no noticeable increase in wait times. I can see my GP within a week usually. The prescription plan we have now is far superior to what we had previously.

The only big change is that we have to regularly update our income information and fill out a few forms every year.

Because of this, we're finally starting to get our heads above water financially and we no longer have to choose between filling a prescription and buying groceries for the week.
2012-07-12 07:07:41 AM
1 votes:
Stat is useless without # of USians who sought medical treatment outside the US in 2011 to compare to.
2012-07-12 07:04:10 AM
1 votes:
46,159 ?

That is less than the number of people in my COUNTY that don't have any health insurance at all.

In my state, there are over 700,000 people under 65 without health insurance.
2012-07-12 07:03:08 AM
1 votes:
I'f you're going to announce you're nonpartisan before even saying your name, I'm going to assume you're extremely partisan.
2012-07-12 06:25:18 AM
1 votes:

quatchi: Find me a Canadian who wants to swap systems and I'll call him a liar to his face.


Or he/she reads the Farkin' Toronto Sun.

Seriously, have ever seen that disgusting tabloid? Some of the garbage they print is to the right of teabaggers. Scary that some Canadians actually believe that crap and vote based on their ignorant editorializing. These idiots are why we are stuck with Harper.
2012-07-12 05:07:07 AM
1 votes:

Ghastly: None of those cost me a penny.


*checks profile*

Canadian? WTF?

SOCIALIST!

Actually, Vermont is looking at a single-payer statewide system. Good, right? Here's the facepalm part:

From the Vermont Health Care For All website FAQ:

Won't we have rationing like Canada?

See, this is why we in the US can't have nice things.
2012-07-12 04:42:02 AM
1 votes:
So a small fraction of 1% of Canada - i.e., the people with rare conditions that have to travel to find specialists to treat them, did so. I'd imagine a similar number of U.S. citizens who have the sort of the thing that 3 people know how to treat, none of which live in this country, do the same.

Considering the two countries make no serious attempt to stop people from hopping back and forth, even when they don't have passports, that number would be much, MUCH higher if this was a real issue.
2012-07-12 04:32:09 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: Dude, no one in reality would keep posting that bullsh*t in the threads after getting shouted down so often. They'd move on to an echo chamber like FreeRepublic or Breitbart or something. It's a troll account.


Apparently. Meh, my thing with trolls is if they are repeating current talking points that haven't yet been thoroughly debunked I just use their BS as a springboard for my own counter arguments. They are kind of like the whetstone one uses in cyberspace in order to eviscerate real morons more easily in meatspace. Plus it's an outlet for my natural snark.
2012-07-12 04:06:33 AM
1 votes:
So? In the US people get shuttled around for non-immediate specialty procedures all the time, crossing to a different state isn't unusual. I don't see why it would be different in Canada, particularly, which is a similar distance from a lot of major US population centers.

I'd imagine that certain specialty procedures are referred to Canadian hospitals from the US as well. Again, kinda standard to send people to the place with the best available care within their means if they're not bleeding out in the emergency room or anything.
2012-07-12 03:55:03 AM
1 votes:
Nonpartisan?

Fraser Institute?

{bwahahahahaha.jpg]

DC FAILs again.

You have to understand how funny this is. If you live in Vancouver like I do and you listen to the radio on a regular basis you will invariably hear at least a couple of scare ads for health insurance covering trips to the US every day. The idea is they tell the tale of a Canadian couple who goes to the States for the weekend to do some shopping or whatever but when a medical emergency happens they end up losing their house because they failed to get extra insurance.

In terms of the numbers of Canadians who access American health care I'll just note that at one point the number of Americans crossing the border and "borrowing" Canadian HC cards became a big enough issue to cause the government to crack down on people doing so.

Plus there's the fact that Medical Tourism is a reality in every industrial nation nowadays including the US.

In 2007, an estimated 750,000 Americans traveled abroad for medical care.

HuffPo had an interesting piece this morning on the current propaganda war going on as regards this issue currently. Basically anecdotal tales from actual Americans who've availed themselves of the Canadian HC system who quite like it.

Link

I'm one of those ridiculously healthy people who've never been seriously ill in their lives but I have many relatives who've needed the system for a variety of complaint both trivial and deadly serious and I for one will attest to the professionalism and competency of the professionals in the Canadian HC industry. I have a sister who developed a very rare form of ovarian cancer in her early 20s back in the 90s and every day she lives she sets a new record for survival rates. So there's that.

Find me a Canadian who wants to swap systems and I'll call him a liar to his face.

Speaking of Fails again...

(RELATED: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare, survey finds)

*head desk*

[notthisshiatagain]
2012-07-12 02:59:13 AM
1 votes:

Strongbeerrules: I live in Alberta. Forget this Canadian universal health coverage myth. No dental coverage, hours-long wait at so-called emergency centers, clinics telling you there're booked up and can't help you.....

Unless you have Manulife insurance though your Alanta employer. Then you get respect.


Well, that sounds like what Americans have in the private insurance system, so if nothing else you get to pay a lot less for the same treatment.
2012-07-12 02:48:15 AM
1 votes:
I live in Alberta. Forget this Canadian universal health coverage myth. No dental coverage, hours-long wait at so-called emergency centers, clinics telling you there're booked up and can't help you.....

Unless you have Manulife insurance though your Alanta employer. Then you get respect.
2012-07-12 02:22:11 AM
1 votes:
Whether or not a think tank is openly partisan is irrelevant to its agenda. As a number of posters have mentioned so far, the Fraser Institute is a right-wing, extremely libertarian western-Canadian based think tank that advocates privatizing Canada's health care system and pretty much anything else our governments do well.
2012-07-12 02:13:48 AM
1 votes:

limboslam: FTFA: "....an average total wait time of 19 weeks between the time a general practitioner refers a patient and the time a specialist provides elective treatment."

Holy crap. Last month the evil American medical system I have to deal with had me wait a whole 5 days from my gp's referral to a specialist. Cost me a whole $10 out of pocket for the whole thing. Well, not counting the $120 I contribute every month to my Employer supplied health insurance. So not too bad. If Obamacare messes this up for me, I'm taking a flamethrower to this place.


I would take any numbers provided by the Daily Caller as somewhere between damned lies and statistics. The actual average is 2-4 weeks, depending on the specialist and local availability, which is right in line with my American experiences, and nearly 90% of everyone seen within 12 weeks. In my mom's case, her disintegrated hip referral took 26 weeks because only one man in all of northern California specialized in the procedure she needed. (She already had a titanium femur, so it wasn't a normal hip replacement.) Hers is the kind of extreme outlier case that doesn't happen often anywhere, though.

19 week average is probably sourced from a blog or chain letter somewhere.
2012-07-12 02:12:37 AM
1 votes:

bronyaur1: How does that compare to the number of Ameicans who had Indian surgeries or cross the border to buy pharmaceuticals in Canada or Mexico?


"Although up from 500,000 in 2006 to 750,000 in 2007, the number of Americans travelling abroad for healthcare is tipped to increase to 6 million by 2010. "

http://www.ipa.org.au/publications/960/a-revolution-in-healthcare

The article is from January 2008. No idea what the current numbers are.
2012-07-12 02:09:16 AM
1 votes:
My Dad had to wait a little over 2 months for his knee replacement surgery here in the US. I guess it's time that we patriotic americans forgo our needed surgeries and medical treatments so the the rich important conservative douche bags can have next day service under Obama care.
2012-07-12 01:57:33 AM
1 votes:

sno man: 19 weeks to get from GP to a specialist and get treated by said specialist


I heard a new patient talking to my endocrinologist's receptionist in the waiting room in late June and they scheduled an appt. for mid-September.
2012-07-12 01:55:39 AM
1 votes:
Hmmm, I wonder how many of those 45,000 are Canadian retirees getting health care at hospitals in Florida?
2012-07-12 01:52:07 AM
1 votes:
I stopped reading at nonpartisan once I googled this place. I realized this wasn't some bizzarro universe where 1984-type doublespeak was the normal mode of communication.
2012-07-12 01:50:29 AM
1 votes:

timujin: I wonder if this also includes tourists who go to hospitals in other countries.


I have a kind of running joke that I'm going to write a "guide to hospitals on other continents" considering some of the ones I've been in.

Short version: try to stay out of hospitals in Mongolia.
2012-07-12 01:47:20 AM
1 votes:

Chafed Willi: Today I got aspirin out of my arm rest dealy in my car, which was probably made in china. Does that mean I outsourced my medical treatment to China? I haz a sad :(


Most of the active ingredients in your drugs come from India, Pakistan, and China. But that isn't new. It's been like that for ages. The pharma companies buy their ingredients for a few dollars per ton and then sell them for dollars per microgram. It's a pretty good racket, if you're in it.
2012-07-12 01:45:43 AM
1 votes:

unlikely: So then this is a different Fraser institute than the Conservative Right-Libertarian Fraser Institute?


And did they ever find out what to do with those tossed salads and scrambled eggs??
2012-07-12 01:25:50 AM
1 votes:

ox45tallboy: For those too lazy to look for the actual report, here's a link. (warning, PDF).

For those too lazy to click a link, go run your fat asses around the block a few times, then read these choice excerpts:

In 2011, a significant number of Canadians-an estimated
46,159-received treatment outside of the country.2 Increases
between 2010 and 2011 in the estimated number of patients
going outside Canada for treatment were seen in British
Columbia (5,565 to 9,180), Saskatchewan (943 to 1,221),
Manitoba (933 to 1,436), New Brunswick (282 to 526),
Nova Scotia (851 to 1,271), Prince Edward Island (44 to 54),
and Newfoundland and Labrador (130 to 433). Conversely,
Ontario (23,192 to 18,172) saw a decrease in the estimated
number of patients who received treatment outside Canada.3

SNIP

In 2011, 1.0% of all patients in Canada
were estimated to have received non-emergency medical
treatment outside Canada, the same as in 2010.

Wow, a whopping 1%!!! And it's the same as last year!! Clearly, this is a trend towards a breakdown in Canadian Health Care! Of course, this also includes elective surgeries, such as boob jobs, liposuction, and facelifts, but let's not let that ruin a good story...

So how about in the good ole US of A? What percentage get non-emergency medical care elsewhere?

Well, according to Gallup, 29% would consider going abroad for non-emergency medical treatment. But how many do?

Over the last few years, medical tourism has been steadily rising. In 2008, 540,000 Americans traveled abroad for medical procedures. In 2009, that number rose to 648,000, and in 2010 it was 878,000. It is expected to rise to 1,300,000 individuals by this year.

So we get 1.3 million, out of 310 million, or 0.41%. Of course, that number comes from the uninsured or under-insured, or those whose insurance company drops them when they get sick, right?

Of course, American Health Insurance Providers would NEVER send their patients to another country to receive medical care, right? Right?


Just think how high the number of Americans going abroad for medical reasons would be if more had passports.
2012-07-12 01:20:47 AM
1 votes:

Ghastly: Okay.... first of all, people who live in cities near the border like Hamilton, Niagara Falls, and Windsor will sometimes go to hospitals across the border for healthcare if a hospital across the border offers the treatment or has a diagnostic device that is not available at a hospital where they live and the American hospital is closer than a Canadian hospital with the same programme or equipment. This is still covered by our government healthcare. Likewise Americans who live on the border will sometimes come across the border to get treatment in Canada if the treatment or equipment is not available where they live and the Canadian hospital is closer than the nearest American hospital that offers the same treatment or equipment, and if their health insurance will cover it.

This is hardly a case of Canadians (or Americans) "fleeing the country" for healthcare.

Likewise there are some people (in both Canada and the US) who will travel to "medical tourism" hospitals in countries such as India, Mexico, and Venezuela where they can get treatment in an environment that is more like a luxury resort than a hospital (I stayed in such a hospital in India once, very very nice). They also go there because these countries will offer dangerous, controversial, or experimental treatments and procedures that are not approved in Canada or the US. As far as I know, these procedures will not be covered by our government health care but may be covered or partially covered by private insurance.

As I said, cross border healthcare is not unheard of for both Canadian and Americans who live alone the border. The difference between the Canadians going across the border for healthcare and the Americans going across the border for healthcare is our government pays for it when we get treated in an American hospital.


I wonder if this also includes tourists who go to hospitals in other countries.
2012-07-11 10:28:28 PM
1 votes:
Being the bastion of integrity that it is, I'm sure the Daily Caller gave due attention to the many thousands of Americans who seek medical care or medicine outside of the USA...right?

Oh...and "nonpartisan?"

multimedia.billybrew.com
 
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