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(The Daily Caller)   "The nonpartisan Fraser Institute reported that 46,159 Canadians sought medical treatment outside of Canada in 2011." So....like half?   (dailycaller.com) divider line 262
    More: Interesting, Fraser Institute, Canadians, public health care, Prince Edward Island, therapies, elective  
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4128 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jul 2012 at 1:39 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-12 02:14:21 AM
So, 34 million people in Canada.

Let's assume that 85% of those people sought medical treatment at least once last year.

That is .159%. About one sixth of one percent.

Wow, STAGGERING numbers. Especially considering that out of the 85% that go, many go multiple times in a year. Fark off, "non-partisan" Fraser Institute, you got nothing.
 
2012-07-12 02:16:16 AM

foxyshadis: limboslam: FTFA: "....an average total wait time of 19 weeks between the time a general practitioner refers a patient and the time a specialist provides elective treatment."

Holy crap. Last month the evil American medical system I have to deal with had me wait a whole 5 days from my gp's referral to a specialist. Cost me a whole $10 out of pocket for the whole thing. Well, not counting the $120 I contribute every month to my Employer supplied health insurance. So not too bad. If Obamacare messes this up for me, I'm taking a flamethrower to this place.

I would take any numbers provided by the Daily Caller as somewhere between damned lies and statistics. The actual average is 2-4 weeks, depending on the specialist and local availability, which is right in line with my American experiences, and nearly 90% of everyone seen within 12 weeks. In my mom's case, her disintegrated hip referral took 26 weeks because only one man in all of northern California specialized in the procedure she needed. (She already had a titanium femur, so it wasn't a normal hip replacement.) Hers is the kind of extreme outlier case that doesn't happen often anywhere, though.

19 week average is probably sourced from a blog or chain letter somewhere.


Yeah there were a few wacky numbers in that article. Would love to run across other data, but am a) drunk b) tired c) lazy
 
2012-07-12 02:16:43 AM
Wait, is 19 weeks supposed to be a long time to wait for a procedure. I've had to wait longer here in the US just to get my kid's vaccinations. I had to make an appointment 6 months in advance to have my wisdom teeth out, 4 months to get in to see my GP, 4 months to see a podiatrist, etc.. Oh and guess how much of that was covered by insurance...yeah, just the vaccinations, most of them.
 
2012-07-12 02:19:36 AM

gadian: Wait, is 19 weeks supposed to be a long time to wait for a procedure. I've had to wait longer here in the US just to get my kid's vaccinations. I had to make an appointment 6 months in advance to have my wisdom teeth out, 4 months to get in to see my GP, 4 months to see a podiatrist, etc.. Oh and guess how much of that was covered by insurance...yeah, just the vaccinations, most of them.


This is just my anecdotal experience, but if you tell the doctor up front that you'll be paying cash in advance, you can often negotiate not only a substantially lower overall price, but a much quicker turnaround time, too. YMMV.
 
2012-07-12 02:19:40 AM

rooftop235: [encrypted-tbn2.google.com image 225x225]

In 2006, 500k US folks took off for healthcare in other countries...
Link

What have you found? I'm not finding more recent stats.


Check my post upthread. The number actually declined in 2008, then started coming back up, and has been steadily rising ever since. Canada's number has been pretty flat the past few years.
 
2012-07-12 02:22:11 AM
Whether or not a think tank is openly partisan is irrelevant to its agenda. As a number of posters have mentioned so far, the Fraser Institute is a right-wing, extremely libertarian western-Canadian based think tank that advocates privatizing Canada's health care system and pretty much anything else our governments do well.
 
2012-07-12 02:28:05 AM
I'm going to make a SWAG (Scientific Wild Arse Guess)

I'll say between 5-15k of those were not people escaping the Canadian system but probably people who were sent down here for treatment for some reason or another. That happens.

You can find thousands of Americans that head over seas for medical treatments of one kind or another too.

Does the fact that a fraction of the people in either system opt to use a different system prove something? I don't think so. it's like the people that trundle out horror stories of different health care systems in various countries... Um... there will always be such horror stories no matter what kind of health care system you have from free market to single payer... There will always be mistakes.
 
2012-07-12 02:29:26 AM

bobbette: Whether or not a think tank is openly partisan is irrelevant to its agenda


s3-ak.buzzfed.com
 
2012-07-12 02:30:13 AM

f00f: this is a really shiatty argument. i'm saying this as someone against universal healthcare, too.


So what are your reasons against universal healthcare? Honestly curious.
 
2012-07-12 02:32:43 AM

fusillade762: So what are your reasons against universal healthcare?


All those damned freeloaders from Alpha Centauri.
 
2012-07-12 02:33:10 AM

ciberido: Short version: try to stay out of hospitals in Mongolia.


Gyrfalcon: Both of them?


The one I was in supposedly was the best in the country, or one of the best ... I'm not really sure, but supposedly it was the hospital that ambassadors and other high muckety-mucks used. At least I think that's what they told me. I wasn't in the best possible state of mind and my grasp of the language was abysmal even before I got sick. My only significant complaint, honestly, was that they didn't provide me with clean water to drink, in a hospital, when one of my symptoms (I think) was dehydration.

The grape soup was really horrible, but not in a "failure to provide something truly essential" kind of way.



Bondith: It's funny 'cause you said that to a guy called Timujim.


Heh. Didn't notice at the time. Guess I owe him a bottle now.

www.gonomad.com

Fun fact: the preferred spelling is "Chinggis" apparently. I wonder how he wrote his own name, if indeed he ever did (there seems to be some dispute as to whether he were literate). The "classic Mongolian script" didn't exist before 1204, so what alphabet/script (if any) did Chinggis Khan write his name in before then, I wonder?
 
2012-07-12 02:33:54 AM

balloot: limboslam: FTFA: "....an average total wait time of 19 weeks between the time a general practitioner refers a patient and the time a specialist provides elective treatment."

Holy crap. Last month the evil American medical system I have to deal with had me wait a whole 5 days from my gp's referral to a specialist. Cost me a whole $10 out of pocket for the whole thing. Well, not counting the $120 I contribute every month to my Employer supplied health insurance. So not too bad. If Obamacare messes this up for me, I'm taking a flamethrower to this place.

--------------------

Nobody is claiming that the American system doesn't work great in many cases. The problem is that when it doesn't work, which is relatively often, someone ends up either bankrupt or not getting proper medical care. No other industrialized country lets this happen.


Canada's industrialized, right?
 
2012-07-12 02:34:23 AM

f00f: this is a really shiatty argument. i'm saying this as someone against universal healthcare, too. the perceived shortcomings of arbitrarily-chosen statistics in canada is a poor way to frame the argument against universal healthcare.

if they canada got these numbers up, such that this particular set of statistics would shine when compared to a free-market system, would that sway anyone's mind? of course it wouldn't. it's just chosen because it makes universal healthcare look bad and would be totally ignored if it didn't.


So are you for vouchers or letting disease run rampant?
Or the rare soul who loves Obamacare?
 
2012-07-12 02:36:21 AM

ciberido: The "classic Mongolian script" didn't exist before 1204, so what alphabet/script (if any) did Chinggis Khan write his name in before then, I wonder?


Seem like he'd be one of those cursive freaks.
 
2012-07-12 02:37:43 AM

limboslam: balloot: limboslam: FTFA: "....an average total wait time of 19 weeks between the time a general practitioner refers a patient and the time a specialist provides elective treatment."

Holy crap. Last month the evil American medical system I have to deal with had me wait a whole 5 days from my gp's referral to a specialist. Cost me a whole $10 out of pocket for the whole thing. Well, not counting the $120 I contribute every month to my Employer supplied health insurance. So not too bad. If Obamacare messes this up for me, I'm taking a flamethrower to this place.

--------------------

Nobody is claiming that the American system doesn't work great in many cases. The problem is that when it doesn't work, which is relatively often, someone ends up either bankrupt or not getting proper medical care. No other industrialized country lets this happen.

Canada's industrialized, right?


Yup. And nobody goes bankrupt or doesn't get care.
 
2012-07-12 02:42:09 AM

randomjsa: I'm going to make a SWAG (Scientific Wild Arse Guess)

I'll say between 5-15k of those were not people escaping the Canadian system but probably people who were sent down here for treatment for some reason or another. That happens.

You can find thousands of Americans that head over seas for medical treatments of one kind or another too.

Does the fact that a fraction of the people in either system opt to use a different system prove something? I don't think so. it's like the people that trundle out horror stories of different health care systems in various countries... Um... there will always be such horror stories no matter what kind of health care system you have from free market to single payer... There will always be mistakes.



theexpiredmeter.com

"Shhhh! We've given someone with an actual, functional brain randomjsa's login and password. Let's see how long it takes anyone to notice."
 
2012-07-12 02:43:29 AM
My parents threw the stupid farking Canadians-coming-to-the-US-for-healthcare statistic at me a few months ago. Then, a few months later when they realized one of them needed surgery and they had no insurance, they were suddenly looking into having it done in MEXICO where they could afford it.

NOT NEWS: Then they realized that Obamacare made it possible for her to get insured and have the surgery here in the States, which is what they did. FARK: They still hate Obamacare.

It's really farking evil the way these right wing @ssholes are brainwashing people into accepting a system that bankrupts you when you get sick.
 
2012-07-12 02:48:15 AM
I live in Alberta. Forget this Canadian universal health coverage myth. No dental coverage, hours-long wait at so-called emergency centers, clinics telling you there're booked up and can't help you.....

Unless you have Manulife insurance though your Alanta employer. Then you get respect.
 
2012-07-12 02:49:32 AM

Strongbeerrules: I live in Alberta. Forget this Canadian universal health coverage myth. No dental coverage, hours-long wait at so-called emergency centers, clinics telling you there're booked up and can't help you.....

Unless you have Manulife insurance though your Alanta employer. Then you get respect.


Shut up. Not only are you ruining the narrative, we Americans don't give a crap about the actual experiences people actually have. We're all about theory over here.
 
2012-07-12 02:56:15 AM

ox45tallboy: randomjsa: I'm going to make a SWAG (Scientific Wild Arse Guess)

I'll say between 5-15k of those were not people escaping the Canadian system but probably people who were sent down here for treatment for some reason or another. That happens.

You can find thousands of Americans that head over seas for medical treatments of one kind or another too.

Does the fact that a fraction of the people in either system opt to use a different system prove something? I don't think so. it's like the people that trundle out horror stories of different health care systems in various countries... Um... there will always be such horror stories no matter what kind of health care system you have from free market to single payer... There will always be mistakes.


[theexpiredmeter.com image 242x300]

"Shhhh! We've given someone with an actual, functional brain randomjsa's login and password. Let's see how long it takes anyone to notice."


Hehe. I think he forgot which login he was posting under.
 
2012-07-12 02:57:04 AM

shower_in_my_socks: My parents threw the stupid farking Canadians-coming-to-the-US-for-healthcare statistic at me a few months ago. Then, a few months later when they realized one of them needed surgery and they had no insurance, they were suddenly looking into having it done in MEXICO where they could afford it.

NOT NEWS: Then they realized that Obamacare made it possible for her to get insured and have the surgery here in the States, which is what they did. FARK: They still hate Obamacare.

It's really farking evil the way these right wing @ssholes are brainwashing people into accepting a system that bankrupts you when you get sick.


It's harsh, but your parents sound both dumb and subbornly ignorant, in that they know they were wrong but refuse the admit the possibility. I suspect a large portion of the anti-Obamacare sentiment out there is the same, given that the pieces of Obamacare have landslide high poll ratings yet you have to dig to find the ratings of the name "Obamacare." Just don't tell them what it's called and they love it!
 
2012-07-12 02:59:13 AM

Strongbeerrules: I live in Alberta. Forget this Canadian universal health coverage myth. No dental coverage, hours-long wait at so-called emergency centers, clinics telling you there're booked up and can't help you.....

Unless you have Manulife insurance though your Alanta employer. Then you get respect.


Well, that sounds like what Americans have in the private insurance system, so if nothing else you get to pay a lot less for the same treatment.
 
2012-07-12 03:01:58 AM

cc_rider: Hehe. I think he forgot which login he was posting under.


Most likely.
 
2012-07-12 03:10:23 AM
This points to an obvious solution to the high costs of medical care.

Health insurance that includes trips abroad for services at affiliated hospitals.

Imagine how high the colonoscopy checkup rate would be if your in-network provider was in Cozumel and the insurance company comped your tickets. Extend this idea across the board because I'm a little low on knowledge of medical procedures right now.

How about covering nursing homes in Costa Rica? The kids will be more likely to visit and if they don't hey, you're in Costa Rica.

How about sending breast cancer survivors to Brazil for reconstructive breast implants? They're really good at it down there, they even trick out men pretty well.

The list keeps on going. Eventually American hospitals would gang together to get congress to limit liability, and then we might get to where the cost difference is less than a plane ticket. Although we'd probably see high carbon taxes to make international flights impractical before we see one group of lawyers limit the income potential of another group of lawyers.
 
2012-07-12 03:10:35 AM
I have no friend, acquaintance, or family that's complained of a long wait time. Aside from biatching that you can't walk into a GP's office and immediately see the doc, but those things aren't always easy to schedule.

Then again, I'm not one of the 1%.
 
2012-07-12 03:20:34 AM

f00f: i'm saying this as someone against universal healthcare, too.

.


Me too.

All poor people should just suffer and/or die when God decides its their time to do so.
 
2012-07-12 03:26:20 AM

foxyshadis: shower_in_my_socks: My parents threw the stupid farking Canadians-coming-to-the-US-for-healthcare statistic at me a few months ago. Then, a few months later when they realized one of them needed surgery and they had no insurance, they were suddenly looking into having it done in MEXICO where they could afford it.

NOT NEWS: Then they realized that Obamacare made it possible for her to get insured and have the surgery here in the States, which is what they did. FARK: They still hate Obamacare.

It's really farking evil the way these right wing @ssholes are brainwashing people into accepting a system that bankrupts you when you get sick.

It's harsh, but your parents sound both dumb and subbornly ignorant, in that they know they were wrong but refuse the admit the possibility. I suspect a large portion of the anti-Obamacare sentiment out there is the same, given that the pieces of Obamacare have landslide high poll ratings yet you have to dig to find the ratings of the name "Obamacare." Just don't tell them what it's called and they love it!



They're both smart, rational people. But they've been exposed to 60 years of Republican dogma. For many, any hint of socialism is bad simply because "socialism" and "liberal" have been successfully turned into bad words by the right wing fringe.
 
2012-07-12 03:27:34 AM

You Cant Explain That: All poor people should just suffer and/or die when God decides its their time to do so.


Divorcing people from the negative consequences of their bad choices doesn't actually help them in the long run. Nor anyone else.
 
2012-07-12 03:34:22 AM
I have medical coverage here in the States but still go to Costa Rica from time to time for dental work. The equipment and dentists seem as good as the high end dentist I go to here. Funny thing is that if I get a crown in the States, it is made at a lab in Costa Rica and shipped here. There are lots of other procedures that can be done in Costa Rica that are insanely expensive in the US. I don't know about the medical clinics but at the dental clinics the waiting room is always filled with Americans. With roundtrip airfare in the $300-$400 range, it doesn't take much of a savings to work it worthwhile.
 
2012-07-12 03:35:15 AM

untaken_name: You Cant Explain That: All poor people should just suffer and/or die when God decides its their time to do so.

Divorcing people from the negative consequences of their bad choices doesn't actually help them in the long run. Nor anyone else.


Look how stupid you are.
 
2012-07-12 03:35:54 AM

You Cant Explain That: f00f: i'm saying this as someone against universal healthcare, too.

.

Me too.

All poor people should just suffer and/or die when God decides its their time to do so.


God doesn't seem to give a ripe fig about municipal finances or tax payer-provided infrastructure. In His infinite glory and wisdom, He lets those societal leeches linger waaaaaaay too long. Following His teachings, we need to help ourselves instead of sitting around on our butts all day waiting for His Devine Street Sweeper to tidy things up. We have enough huddled masses spreading tuberculosis. Who's idea was it to invite more? I think He'd be happy if we were a little more bootstrappy and quit bugging Him so much.

img.photobucket.como clean things up.
 
2012-07-12 03:40:04 AM
Okay, who broke into Randomjusa's account and is posting?

Did someone forget to log onto their alter ego trolling account?
 
2012-07-12 03:40:56 AM

A Dark Evil Omen: untaken_name: You Cant Explain That: All poor people should just suffer and/or die when God decides its their time to do so.

Divorcing people from the negative consequences of their bad choices doesn't actually help them in the long run. Nor anyone else.

Look how stupid you are.


Oh, you wound me. Since you're so much smarter than I am, apparently, why not take a few moments and explain why I'm wrong? Or is that beyond your God-like abilities, Mr. Hawking?
 
2012-07-12 03:50:57 AM
What's really crazy is that what you pay in the US seems to be totally random. I recently fell at an ice rink and split my head open. While I was passed out, they called an ambulance that took me ten miles to the closest hospital. After entering the ER the first person I saw wasn't a doctor or a nurse, it was a woman from finance department demanding to see my insurance information.

In the weeks that followed, the bills started coming in. Over $8000 from six different companies (apparently everything at the hospital is outsourced to independent companies0. That's over $1000 per stich. But the insurance company negotiated the rate down to around $4000. So without insurance I would have had to pay double... or negotiated with the woman from the finance department over the cost of everything as they provided it. This while bleeding from a head injury.

Even more fun is that the insurance company absolutely refuses to pay $800 ambulance bill since they claim the injury wasn't life threatening. Well, that might be true but I certainly couldn't drive myself seeing that had been knocked out and I doubt a taxi would want a passenger who was bleeding all over the place. Apparently after I came to, I was suppose to walk around the ice arena begging anyone to let me bum a ride. And this isn't even cut rate insurance. It's the best plan offered by one of the most powerful law firms in the country.
 
2012-07-12 03:55:03 AM
Nonpartisan?

Fraser Institute?

{bwahahahahaha.jpg]

DC FAILs again.

You have to understand how funny this is. If you live in Vancouver like I do and you listen to the radio on a regular basis you will invariably hear at least a couple of scare ads for health insurance covering trips to the US every day. The idea is they tell the tale of a Canadian couple who goes to the States for the weekend to do some shopping or whatever but when a medical emergency happens they end up losing their house because they failed to get extra insurance.

In terms of the numbers of Canadians who access American health care I'll just note that at one point the number of Americans crossing the border and "borrowing" Canadian HC cards became a big enough issue to cause the government to crack down on people doing so.

Plus there's the fact that Medical Tourism is a reality in every industrial nation nowadays including the US.

In 2007, an estimated 750,000 Americans traveled abroad for medical care.

HuffPo had an interesting piece this morning on the current propaganda war going on as regards this issue currently. Basically anecdotal tales from actual Americans who've availed themselves of the Canadian HC system who quite like it.

Link

I'm one of those ridiculously healthy people who've never been seriously ill in their lives but I have many relatives who've needed the system for a variety of complaint both trivial and deadly serious and I for one will attest to the professionalism and competency of the professionals in the Canadian HC industry. I have a sister who developed a very rare form of ovarian cancer in her early 20s back in the 90s and every day she lives she sets a new record for survival rates. So there's that.

Find me a Canadian who wants to swap systems and I'll call him a liar to his face.

Speaking of Fails again...

(RELATED: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare, survey finds)

*head desk*

[notthisshiatagain]
 
2012-07-12 04:03:19 AM

ox45tallboy: cc_rider: Hehe. I think he forgot which login he was posting under.

Most likely.


Yeah, I had a real WTF moment there too for a sec.

So... not a real moron he just plays one on the internet?

Damnitsomuch!
 
2012-07-12 04:06:33 AM
So? In the US people get shuttled around for non-immediate specialty procedures all the time, crossing to a different state isn't unusual. I don't see why it would be different in Canada, particularly, which is a similar distance from a lot of major US population centers.

I'd imagine that certain specialty procedures are referred to Canadian hospitals from the US as well. Again, kinda standard to send people to the place with the best available care within their means if they're not bleeding out in the emergency room or anything.
 
2012-07-12 04:17:18 AM

quatchi: ox45tallboy: cc_rider: Hehe. I think he forgot which login he was posting under.

Most likely.

Yeah, I had a real WTF moment there too for a sec.

So... not a real moron he just plays one on the internet?

Damnitsomuch!


Dude, no one in reality would keep posting that bullsh*t in the threads after getting shouted down so often. They'd move on to an echo chamber like FreeRepublic or Breitbart or something. It's a troll account.
 
2012-07-12 04:17:21 AM

randomjsa: I'm going to make a SWAG (Scientific Wild Arse Guess)

I'll say between 5-15k of those were not people escaping the Canadian system but probably people who were sent down here for treatment for some reason or another. That happens.

You can find thousands of Americans that head over seas for medical treatments of one kind or another too.

Does the fact that a fraction of the people in either system opt to use a different system prove something? I don't think so. it's like the people that trundle out horror stories of different health care systems in various countries... Um... there will always be such horror stories no matter what kind of health care system you have from free market to single payer... There will always be mistakes.


Wha-wha-what the? Who are you, and what did you do with trollbait?
 
2012-07-12 04:32:09 AM

ox45tallboy: Dude, no one in reality would keep posting that bullsh*t in the threads after getting shouted down so often. They'd move on to an echo chamber like FreeRepublic or Breitbart or something. It's a troll account.


Apparently. Meh, my thing with trolls is if they are repeating current talking points that haven't yet been thoroughly debunked I just use their BS as a springboard for my own counter arguments. They are kind of like the whetstone one uses in cyberspace in order to eviscerate real morons more easily in meatspace. Plus it's an outlet for my natural snark.
 
2012-07-12 04:42:02 AM
So a small fraction of 1% of Canada - i.e., the people with rare conditions that have to travel to find specialists to treat them, did so. I'd imagine a similar number of U.S. citizens who have the sort of the thing that 3 people know how to treat, none of which live in this country, do the same.

Considering the two countries make no serious attempt to stop people from hopping back and forth, even when they don't have passports, that number would be much, MUCH higher if this was a real issue.
 
2012-07-12 04:58:17 AM

Strongbeerrules: I live in Alberta. Forget this Canadian universal health coverage myth. No dental coverage, hours-long wait at so-called emergency centers, clinics telling you there're booked up and can't help you.....

Unless you have Manulife insurance though your Alanta employer. Then you get respect.


Emergency rooms EVERYWHERE usually have long waits because too many stupid people go to the emergency room everytime they get the sniffles. They'll process you based on the severity of your symptoms. When I was in my motorcycle accident I got in pretty quickly. The time I thought I'd broken my finger it was a couple hours wait.

Of course there have been times I've been to the emergency room and got treated right away even though I didn't have a serious injury simply because it was a quiet night and they didn't have many patients.

As for wait times to see specialists, it all depends. The surgeon who removed the tumour from my finger was less than seven days to see. The specialist who created my orthodics I got to see the very next day. The guy who performed my vasectomy I got to see in 2 weeks. The doctor who operated on my bladder I got to see in a little less than a month.

None of those cost me a penny.
 
2012-07-12 05:01:20 AM

AppleOptionEsc: Wha-wha-what the? Who are you, and what did you do with trollbait?


Wife-like-typing detected.
 
2012-07-12 05:07:07 AM

Ghastly: None of those cost me a penny.


*checks profile*

Canadian? WTF?

SOCIALIST!

Actually, Vermont is looking at a single-payer statewide system. Good, right? Here's the facepalm part:

From the Vermont Health Care For All website FAQ:

Won't we have rationing like Canada?

See, this is why we in the US can't have nice things.
 
2012-07-12 05:16:00 AM

Rusty Shackleford: The nonpartisan Himmler Institute reports that Jews may be controlling the international media.


The nonpartisan WE Coyote Institute reports that land-based avian creatures are a menace to society that should be exterminated.
 
2012-07-12 05:31:05 AM
So 46,159 Canadians got sick on vacation?

/drtfa
 
2012-07-12 05:42:30 AM
As I was doing a bit of research to rebut an argument from someone that the US has the "best health care system in the world", I did find one interesting thing. In one area, we are the best -- and that is response time. So it would stand to reason that this is the one area highlighted in this study.
 
2012-07-12 06:16:08 AM
I once mentioned that one-half of all Canadian live withing 100 miles of the US border. One of my Candian co-workers chime in "and the other half of us live within the US border". That 43k is just the reported few crossing the border and asking for reimbursement from their government.
 
2012-07-12 06:25:18 AM

quatchi: Find me a Canadian who wants to swap systems and I'll call him a liar to his face.


Or he/she reads the Farkin' Toronto Sun.

Seriously, have ever seen that disgusting tabloid? Some of the garbage they print is to the right of teabaggers. Scary that some Canadians actually believe that crap and vote based on their ignorant editorializing. These idiots are why we are stuck with Harper.
 
2012-07-12 06:38:09 AM

Strongbeerrules: I live in Alberta. Forget this Canadian universal health coverage myth. No dental coverage, hours-long wait at so-called emergency centers, clinics telling you there're booked up and can't help you.....

Unless you have Manulife insurance though your Alanta employer. Then you get respect.


I live in PEI, so I feel your pain.

A lot of that is a shortage of doctors, though. We lose a boatload of trained professionals to the US, where they can make a lot more money. If we had the right number of staff for the population, this would be less of an issue.

a few quick "here's how things went for me" of treatment:
- male permanent birth control - 1 year wait
- diagnosed kidney tumor - 6 specialist and surgery in a week flat (not me, my uncle)
 
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