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(Daily Mail)   Katie Holmes finds a new cult to join   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 345
    More: Followup, Katie Holmes, New York, Scientology, katie, RadarOnline, oblivion, Rolling Stones  
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38690 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2012 at 5:06 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-11 01:52:39 PM
Please be Kabbalah, Please be Kabbalah, Please be Kabbalah. Click link.


Thanks no fun
 
2012-07-11 01:53:43 PM
themixtapemonster.files.wordpress.com

/This is gonna be good....
 
2012-07-11 01:57:07 PM
I can see why she might not be too concerned about it. After all, Suri is a girl.
 
2012-07-11 01:58:12 PM
She should have gone straight to Mormonism.
 
2012-07-11 02:01:31 PM
Submitter must be a Southern Baptist.
 
2012-07-11 02:03:59 PM
its not new. they've been around for a while.
 
2012-07-11 02:19:41 PM
Its not a cult.
 
2012-07-11 02:23:02 PM
I somehow half expected this to be a picture of her with a new iProduct.
 
2012-07-11 02:26:58 PM
New? She was already Catholic before her imprisonment.
 
2012-07-11 02:28:46 PM

downstairs: Its not a cult.


How do you figure?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-07-11 02:29:55 PM

downstairs: Its not a cult.


Well it has it's own country, so I guess it isn't exactly the same as other cults.
 
2012-07-11 02:30:20 PM
Instead of worrying about her daughter being brainwashed by members of Sea Org, now she only has to worry about her daughter being molested and/or raped by priests.
 
2012-07-11 02:32:57 PM

Lorelle: Instead of worrying about her daughter being brainwashed by members of Sea Org, now she only has to worry about her daughter being molested and/or raped by priests.


Nah, she would only have to worry about that if she had a son.
 
2012-07-11 02:34:13 PM

Lorelle: Instead of worrying about her daughter being brainwashed by members of Sea Org, now she only has to worry about her daughter being molested and/or raped by priests.


Hey now this is the Catholic church we're talking about here since she's female she's likely fine. Now if she was signed up to be on a Tween show on Nickelodeon then Katie should be worried.
 
2012-07-11 02:39:40 PM

eraser8: downstairs: Its not a cult.

How do you figure?


The guy at the top is dead. That makes it, and Scientology, religions.
 
2012-07-11 02:43:55 PM
*reads headline*

She went Mormon?

*clicks link*

Oh...
 
2012-07-11 02:44:18 PM
Besides some of the more obvious reasons, aren't most cults essentially heterodox faiths? You can't get more established and orthodox than the Catholic farkin' Church.
 
2012-07-11 02:44:58 PM

GAT_00: eraser8: downstairs: Its not a cult.

How do you figure?

The guy at the top is dead. That makes it, and Scientology, religions.


Didn't Jesus come back to life? In fact, I'm pretty sure that's one of the big things regarding Christianity.
 
2012-07-11 02:46:51 PM

coco ebert: Besides some of the more obvious reasons, aren't most cults essentially heterodox faiths? You can't get more established and orthodox than the Catholic farkin' Church.


That's the connotation many people choose to assign to the word. But, it's technically correct (the best kind of correct) to refer to any religion -- or any religion's rites and forms -- as a cult.
 
2012-07-11 02:47:05 PM

Cyberluddite: Nah, she would only have to worry about that if she had a son.


Not necessarily. I recall a rather notorious case here in SoCal in which a teenage girl was coaxed into having sex with several priests and got knocked up by one of them. The priests were sent to other parishes, natch. The girl and her family were harassed by neighbors and others after she went public with her story; someone even tried to set the family's home on fire.
 
2012-07-11 02:47:37 PM

scottydoesntknow: GAT_00: eraser8: downstairs: Its not a cult.

How do you figure?

The guy at the top is dead. That makes it, and Scientology, religions.

Didn't Jesus come back to life? In fact, I'm pretty sure that's one of the big things regarding Christianity.


Maybe he was talking about Saint Peter.
 
2012-07-11 02:50:32 PM

Lorelle: Instead of worrying about her daughter being brainwashed by members of Sea Org, now she only has to worry about her daughter being molested and/or raped by priests.


Suri is a girl. Catholic priests are much like the late Michael Jackson; they like boys. While I'm sure a priest has maybe somewhere along the line, got grab-handy with a female child, it's about as likely to occur as me voting for a Republican.
 
2012-07-11 02:53:16 PM

scottydoesntknow: GAT_00: eraser8: downstairs: Its not a cult.

How do you figure?

The guy at the top is dead. That makes it, and Scientology, religions.

Didn't Jesus come back to life? In fact, I'm pretty sure that's one of the big things regarding Christianity.


He still died, and isn't walking around here now. I don't mind really calling Christianity a cult, but it probably has grown beyond that.
 
2012-07-11 03:04:44 PM
So, wait...Let me get this straight...

The whole reason she left $cientology was because it's misogynistic, indoctrinates children, is based on ludicrous myths and involves bizarre rituals...And the first thing she does is go back to CATHOLICISM?!?

www.religiousforums.com

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
 
2012-07-11 03:12:56 PM

eraser8: downstairs: Its not a cult.

How do you figure?


Couple things:

(1) If you leave the Catholic Church, there's no pressure by the hierarchy to bring you back into the fold. Your mother might give you grief, but you're not declared a "non-person".

(2) You're not isolated when you're in the Catholic Church. Catholics do pretty normal things outside of the Church and are left alone by the hierarchy when they do so.

(3) They don't take all of your money. While voluntary tithing is off the gross income (NOT NET, PEOPLE), the Catholic Church isn't telling you to sign over the deed to your house.

(4) The rites aren't secretive, nor do you have to pay money to learn about them. You could walk into a Catholic Church right now and watch without being harassed or be charged a fee.

Now, they may be weird and do things you don't like, but that doesn't make them a cult.

/You can substitute "Presbyterian", "Methodist", "Anglican", etc. for "Catholic" in the above points, if you'd like.
 
2012-07-11 03:19:07 PM

Coco LaFemme: Suri is a girl. Catholic priests are much like the late Michael Jackson; they like boys. While I'm sure a priest has maybe somewhere along the line, got grab-handy with a female child, it's about as likely to occur as me voting for a Republican.


I found an article about the case I mentioned earlier in this thread...the victim ended up getting lotsa $$ from the Catholic Church. And it only took 23 years. Golly.
 
2012-07-11 03:19:43 PM

MaxxLarge: So, wait...Let me get this straight...

The whole reason she left $cientology was because it's misogynistic, indoctrinates children, is based on ludicrous myths and involves bizarre rituals...And the first thing she does is go back to CATHOLICISM?!?

[www.religiousforums.com image 311x400]

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.


Catholicism is not like Scientology. False equivalence is false.
 
2012-07-11 03:19:59 PM
Headline is way off base...

Catholicism is not "new"
 
2012-07-11 03:20:12 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: eraser8: downstairs: Its not a cult.

How do you figure?

Couple things:

(1) If you leave the Catholic Church, there's no pressure by the hierarchy to bring you back into the fold. Your mother might give you grief, but you're not declared a "non-person".

(2) You're not isolated when you're in the Catholic Church. Catholics do pretty normal things outside of the Church and are left alone by the hierarchy when they do so.

(3) They don't take all of your money. While voluntary tithing is off the gross income (NOT NET, PEOPLE), the Catholic Church isn't telling you to sign over the deed to your house.

(4) The rites aren't secretive, nor do you have to pay money to learn about them. You could walk into a Catholic Church right now and watch without being harassed or be charged a fee.

Now, they may be weird and do things you don't like, but that doesn't make them a cult.

/You can substitute "Presbyterian", "Methodist", "Anglican", etc. for "Catholic" in the above points, if you'd like.


How dare you differentiate between a cult and a religion!

You shall now face the full wrath of a shiatload of very silly people on Fark.
 
2012-07-11 03:21:25 PM

Lorelle: Coco LaFemme: Suri is a girl. Catholic priests are much like the late Michael Jackson; they like boys. While I'm sure a priest has maybe somewhere along the line, got grab-handy with a female child, it's about as likely to occur as me voting for a Republican.

I found an article about the case I mentioned earlier in this thread...the victim ended up getting lotsa $$ from the Catholic Church. And it only took 23 years. Golly.


Like I said, it's far more likely that if a priest is going to molest a child, it will be a male child. Doesn't mean female child molestation doesn't occur, just that it's not as likely.
 
2012-07-11 03:28:12 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Now, they may be weird and do things you don't like, but that doesn't make them a cult.


They're a cult because they fit the definition.

As I wrote earlier, many people choose to apply a particular connotation to the word (a connotation that happens to exclude established religions), but that doesn't change the fact that any religion -- or any religion's rites and forms -- can properly be described as a cult.
 
2012-07-11 03:34:17 PM

eraser8: They're a cult because they fit the definition.


Well... go on then... what's your definition?
 
2012-07-11 03:39:53 PM

eraser8: downstairs: Its not a cult.

How do you figure?


There's a big difference between a cult and a religion. Huge difference, really.
A "cult" is a religion that you don't like. A "religion" is a cult that you like.
 
2012-07-11 03:40:42 PM
Cult:
1. a specific system of religious worship, esp with reference to its rites and deity
2. a sect devoted to such a system
3. a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents


Catholicism is a cult, end of story.

Does it fit definition #3? No, it does not. But a cult is ALSO anything that fits definition #1, i.e. the Catholic Church. And from Merriam-Webster:

Definition of CULT
1 : formal religious veneration : worship
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents


Oh look, still a cult.
 
2012-07-11 03:42:16 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Well... go on then... what's your definition?


Why use my own definition?

I'll just use dictionary definitions.

MW online: formal religious veneration : worship; a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

Dictionary.com: a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies

The two dictionaries I keep near my desk...

1) Webster's Unabridged: worship; reverential honor; religious devotion; the system of outward forms and ceremonies used in worship; religious rites and formalities

2) Reader's Digest Great Encyclopaedic Dictionary: a system of religious rites and observances; zealous devotion to a person, ideal or thing; the followers of a cult, a sect.
 
2012-07-11 03:45:47 PM

FloydA: A "cult" is a religion that you don't like. A "religion" is a cult that you like.


As I've admitted, many people (maybe most) have CHOSEN to assume the word "cult" describes something unwholesome.

But, technically, any religion qualifies as a cult (see the definitions provided in the thread).

I get your point, of course. I just disagree.
 
2012-07-11 03:51:41 PM
Wow, it's amazing how many people don't understand the definition of the word "cult", no matter how many dictionary definitions they cite.
 
2012-07-11 03:52:43 PM

eraser8: FloydA: A "cult" is a religion that you don't like. A "religion" is a cult that you like.

As I've admitted, many people (maybe most) have CHOSEN to assume the word "cult" describes something unwholesome.

But, technically, any religion qualifies as a cult (see the definitions provided in the thread).

I get your point, of course. I just disagree.



There are technical distinctions in the sociological and anthropological literature. Typically "cults" are distinguished by traits including social discrimination, the presence of a leader/founder who is still alive, small numbers of followers, social isolation of members from the larger society (i.e. insularism), etc.

However, given that this is a thread about the religious beliefs of some TV bimbo who used to be married to an insane dwarf, I hardly feel it's the appropriate place for a serious discussion.
 
2012-07-11 03:53:04 PM

Coco LaFemme: Catholicism is not like Scientology. False equivalence is false.


Apparently, you're not aware of this...But just saying something doesn't make it true.
 
2012-07-11 03:55:11 PM
To be fair, she's attending a particular Catholic Church that is big on social teaching and accepting of gay congregants, etc. That aspect of the Church can be pretty great.
 
2012-07-11 03:56:42 PM

FloydA: There are technical distinctions in the sociological and anthropological literature.


That's quite right...and, if downstairs had made the claim that the Catholic Church was not a cult "by the definitions used in current sociological and anthropological literature," I wouldn't have objected.

But, the fact is that downstairs made a categorical statement. And, that statement -- as stated -- was incorrect.
 
2012-07-11 03:57:38 PM

DeltaPunch: Cult:
1. a specific system of religious worship, esp with reference to its rites and deity
2. a sect devoted to such a system
3. a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents

Catholicism is a cult, end of story.

Does it fit definition #3? No, it does not. :


You clearly weren't raised Catholic.
 
2012-07-11 03:59:23 PM

FloydA: However, given that this is a thread about the religious beliefs of some TV bimbo who used to be married to an insane dwarf


Also, I don't want you to get the impression I'm taking this seriously.

I see it largely the same way you do. I just like arguing.

Hell, what's the point of Fark without being needlessly argumentative?
 
2012-07-11 04:03:19 PM
What does it matter if technically the Catholic Church can be considered a cult? The interesting question is why some religious faiths are considered legitimate and others less so. Partly it is how open they are to new adherents and those who want to leave. It's also a matter of how people view those faiths in the broader society. With that standard, the Catholic Church is an established, traditional religious institution whereas Scientology is newer and much more closed to outside scrutiny. This makes it suspect in people's eyes. I don't think anyone here is arguing that one is good and the other is bad, but they are not the same. They are different not so much based on technical definitions or how I personally feel about them as a non-religious person, but societally and culturally. Is that really so hard to get?
 
2012-07-11 04:03:36 PM

eraser8:

Also, I don't want you to get the impression I'm taking this seriously.


Phew! I was starting to worry. ;-)
 
2012-07-11 04:05:20 PM

eraser8: FloydA: However, given that this is a thread about the religious beliefs of some TV bimbo who used to be married to an insane dwarf

Also, I don't want you to get the impression I'm taking this seriously.

I see it largely the same way you do. I just like arguing.

Hell, what's the point of Fark without being needlessly argumentative?


Cat pictures:

edge.ebaumsworld.com
 
2012-07-11 04:07:20 PM

Mugato: Wow, it's amazing how many people don't understand the definition of the word "cult", no matter how many dictionary definitions they cite.


It's amazing how one word can have various definitions, and yet people refuse to accept any of the meanings that differ from their own preconception.
 
2012-07-11 04:24:59 PM

MaxxLarge: Coco LaFemme: Catholicism is not like Scientology. False equivalence is false.

Apparently, you're not aware of this...But just saying something doesn't make it true.


The sky is blue. There, I just said that. Does that mean it's not true? If you look at what a cult really is, and all that one entails, you will see that you can't really make that connection. Cults are secretive. Cults many times force separation between its members and their friends and family. Cults demand complete subservience to the "leader." Cults don't allow you leave, and if you manage to escape, they will do everything they can to return you to the fold.

For fark's sake, look at Jim Jones and the Peoples' Temple, or Marshall Applewhite and the Heaven's Gate cult, or David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. Those were cults. Would you really call any of that the same as Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, or any other organized religion?
 
2012-07-11 04:35:25 PM

Coco LaFemme: If you look at what a cult really is, and all that one entails, you will see that you can't really make that connection. Cults are secretive. Cults many times force separation between its members and their friends and family. Cults demand complete subservience to the "leader."


Honestly, you're ignoring every definition of cult that doesn't satisfy your prejudiced criteria.

While the Onion jokes about "Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be," you seem to be a "Passionate Detractor of What You Imagine Cults To Be."

You need to understand that the term "cult" comprises more than just the crazy group of nutters forcibly separated from family and society.
 
2012-07-11 04:44:30 PM

eraser8: Also, I don't want you to get the impression I'm taking this seriously.


Sounds cultish to me...
 
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