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(Fark)   Question for computer nerds: Compared to my first computer, my current computer has a CPU that's over 300 times faster and has 500 times more memory and storage. So WHY DOES EVERYTHING STILL TAKE JUST AS LONG?   (fark.com) divider line 394
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5142 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2012 at 2:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-11 01:59:49 PM

Quasar: Your computer has more to do now.


This is the long and short of it.

Not only is your computer doing more, but your developers are doing less. Back in the day, when hardware constraints were exceedingly tight, developers were forced to develop within those constraints. This was very expensive- it requires much more developer time to write highly optimized code that spares memory and CPU and disk space. Developer time is expensive. CPU time is very cheap.
 
2012-07-11 02:00:33 PM

NickelP: InfamousBLT: Ponzholio: thejoyofpi: InfamousBLT: I recall tales of one game (I don't remember the name, and I have never played it), but it was a chess game. For some reason, the difficulty of the game increased with the processing power. So, the faster computer you had, the harder the game was.

Apparently it is unplayable on modern computers by anyone except chess geniuses, because they didn't put a cap on the difficulty.

brilliant.

Have you tried to play the original Oregon Trail on a current computer? The end where you have to navigate the river to reach Oregon is f*cking impossible...

No, but now I want to try! I loved Oregon Trail

Remind me of solitaire. Back in the early windows days it would take a minute+ for all the decks to empty after you won. The last time I did it I think it was like a half a second. I'm not sure if the timing has been updated in windows 7/vista.


Lol yeah I do remember that back in the day. It's fixed nowadays...moves at a much more normal speed, instead of "as fast as the computer can render it"
 
2012-07-11 02:01:29 PM

t3knomanser: Developer time is expensive. CPU time is very cheap.


What about my time as I sit here waiting for an unresponsive Chrome tab to stop choking my browser?
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2012-07-11 02:02:10 PM

thejoyofpi: The weirdness with Windows 7 is that it takes freaking forever to shut down.

Used to be computers would take a long time to boot up, they solved that, now most computers boot up quickly. But shutting down is like a 20 minute process.


I had that problem (on a work laptop) before getting a machine with the OS on an SSD. Now it's laughable how quickly I can go out and into Windows 7.
 
2012-07-11 02:03:22 PM
It doesn't and if you think it does then you are too stupid to continue this conversation.
 
2012-07-11 02:03:50 PM
Because of the callouses.......
 
2012-07-11 02:07:57 PM

InfamousBLT: The heck? It's gone green? This one? There isn't even any poop in this thread.

BRACE FOR IMPACT


It should've at least gone to the Geek tab... :-/
 
2012-07-11 02:08:01 PM

thejoyofpi: What about my time as I sit here waiting for an unresponsive Chrome tab to stop choking my browser?


That's not about saving developer time. That's a problem inherent in JavaScript engines- they're all single-threaded, even V8. Chrome should be better about breaking up its own processes (each tab is supposed to be a single process, but one will occasionally hang while waiting for others- I assume there's an IPC bottleneck, but haven't investigated).

What kills me is that the JavaScript language would pretty naturally parallelize, being a functional language and all. Make it a lazy-executing language, and it's basically Haskell minus GADTs.
 
2012-07-11 02:08:09 PM

discgolfguru: This was my first system. You Commodore folks were barbarians.


You got the disc drive? I was stuck with the tape drive.
 
2012-07-11 02:13:42 PM
Well for one thing, in order to read a one paragraph news story, you have to wait for 3 interactive ads, and one full length car commercial to load first.
 
2012-07-11 02:14:23 PM

InfamousBLT: Haha, this. Go play some super old DOS game. Watch as all of the animations are insanely fast, everything moves way too fast for your mind to even comprehend what is going on. It's actually kind of funny.

I was playing one game on DOSbox, and even when I had the CPU speed turned down to 1%, the game was still unplayable amounts of fast. Then again, I have a mid-high grade i7, so...yeah. Still, I couldn't play the dumb thing because it was just too fast.


I used to use an emulator for Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior; it was great to turn off the throttling while traveling cross-country, because unless you needed to fight or have very precise movement, you'd just fly. Travel was a major slowdown in the original games. Since throttling could be turned on and off at will, I'd use hotkeys when I entered and exited combat.
 
2012-07-11 02:16:21 PM

labman: discgolfguru: This was my first system. You Commodore folks were barbarians.

You got the disc drive? I was stuck with the tape drive.


I had the tape drive as well, briefly. I played Zaxxon on it.
 
2012-07-11 02:17:59 PM
I remember leaving the room to go take a dump or make a sandwich while wing commander loaded missions. Like, seriously, it would sit there and crunch stuff for 5 or 10 minutes for every farking level.
 
2012-07-11 02:19:46 PM

t3knomanser: thejoyofpi: What about my time as I sit here waiting for an unresponsive Chrome tab to stop choking my browser?

That's not about saving developer time. That's a problem inherent in JavaScript engines- they're all single-threaded, even V8. Chrome should be better about breaking up its own processes (each tab is supposed to be a single process, but one will occasionally hang while waiting for others- I assume there's an IPC bottleneck, but haven't investigated).

What kills me is that the JavaScript language would pretty naturally parallelize, being a functional language and all. Make it a lazy-executing language, and it's basically Haskell minus GADTs.


Ah. So lazy web developers are to blame, right?
 
2012-07-11 02:21:03 PM

TommyymmoT: Well for one thing, in order to read a one paragraph news story, you have to wait for 3 interactive ads, and one full length car commercial to load first.


Don't forget random requests to give them access to your facebook account and the fact thatthe one paragraph story is broken up into 10 pages for MOAR ADVIEWS
 
2012-07-11 02:29:31 PM
Personally my computer does most things way faster than computers I had in the past. The things its doing are way more complex too.

Subby's computer is probably full of malware/spyware/adware etc.
 
2012-07-11 02:32:40 PM
Because you are enjoying 100x the amount of information (with the loss explained by the efficiencies that make developing easier being as well spent as making things go faster -- no point in a fast computer that does nothing for the difficulty in telling it what to do)
 
2012-07-11 02:32:43 PM

Adjective Bird Whiskey: I am betting it doesn't take as long. You've just trained yourself to be an increasingly impatient bastard.


This.
 
2012-07-11 02:32:51 PM
Computer power is consumed by programming complexity. As computers become faster, programmers compete to put that speed to work so their programs seem more advanced than their competitors.
 
2012-07-11 02:32:51 PM
Todays programmers are lazy farks
 
2012-07-11 02:32:55 PM
use COBOL
 
2012-07-11 02:33:13 PM
Because you wanted a GUI. Command line interface wasn't good enough for you, ya bastard.
 
2012-07-11 02:33:47 PM
Because there are several hundred times more tards on the net now.

And they're all downloading pictures, videos and music.
 
2012-07-11 02:34:26 PM
Because you're moving the goal posts.
 
2012-07-11 02:34:32 PM
You, the computer user, will never have enough of these things in your computer:

Speed
Memory
Storage space

It's sort of like how you can never be too rich.
 
2012-07-11 02:34:45 PM
Nothing was more tedious than holding the computer microphone up to the tape player to install the great Dragon Maze. That was pretty slow, considering you had to go through the code later to fix all the syntax errors that the mic created. Good times...
 
2012-07-11 02:34:46 PM
Wow, there are a lot of pretty specific answers to a very vague question. Shouldn't we be asking for more details? WHAT takes just as long?
 
2012-07-11 02:34:55 PM
Point -of-Order: Isn't the BIOS in most machines basically the same BIOS from 30 years ago?
 
2012-07-11 02:35:12 PM
Programmers are lazy.
Companies that employ lots and lots of programmers are cheap.
Most applications are limited by human interaction speed (no matter how fast your CPU is, you can't type 5000 wpm), so extra capacity leads to feature bloat, not speed.
If you field-stripped your machine to do only one thing at a time (and eliminated the gazillion background processes) it would be a lot faster.
 
2012-07-11 02:35:23 PM
The computers have improved a lot...

Subby, on the other hand, apparently not so much.
 
2012-07-11 02:35:26 PM
Is Fark becoming a Wiki ?
 
2012-07-11 02:37:10 PM
1. Lazy or ignorant web app developers
2. Java
3. C++
4. C#
5. .Net

It's not so much the languages or technologies above as much as it is so many programmers have absolutely no clue what effect their design decisions have on the rest of the system.
 
2012-07-11 02:37:17 PM
My PC is super fast. Honestly the coolest (IMO) "new" tech are SSDs essentially your OS runs as if it were completely loaded into RAM, which is pretty sweet.
 
2012-07-11 02:37:26 PM
i ran magic carpet on my pc a few years ago.... magic carpet was released in the 90s..... it ran so fast i couldnt play it. needed dosbox to run it so that it would run at the intended gameplay speed.

also, get a solid state drive.... your processor is indeed a bajillion whatevers faster, but it still has to wait on information from your hard drive. and hard drive speeds have been the same for years now.
 
2012-07-11 02:37:47 PM
The problem is that your computer doesn't have a "Turbo" button:
4.bp.blogspot.com
From 33 mhz, to a blistering 66 mhz!!!
 
2012-07-11 02:38:53 PM
What Intel give'th, Microsoft take'th away
 
2012-07-11 02:38:56 PM

Egoy3k: My PC is super fast. Honestly the coolest (IMO) "new" tech are SSDs essentially your OS runs as if it were completely loaded into RAM, which is pretty sweet.


SSDs are extremely nice to have. :)
 
2012-07-11 02:39:00 PM
Because it's GOING TO SPACE!!!

Then COMING BACK FROM SPACE!!!
 
2012-07-11 02:39:08 PM
OEM Software, Antivirus Software, and Adobe products
 
2012-07-11 02:39:36 PM
"NERDS"!!!
 
2012-07-11 02:39:43 PM
Every year hardware gets faster and software gets slower.

I've been writing a system to create videos from still photos at work. I bought a 6 core server and my vendor laughed when I called it high performance. It is high performance when you put Slackware on it.
 
2012-07-11 02:40:21 PM
Obligatory:

i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-11 02:40:26 PM
Subby, your question is about to be answered.
Now please insert floppy #11 and follow the on screen instructions.
 
2012-07-11 02:40:38 PM

thejoyofpi: The weirdness with Windows 7 is that it takes freaking forever to shut down.

Used to be computers would take a long time to boot up, they solved that, now most computers boot up quickly. But shutting down is like a 20 minute process.


Mine doesn't do this. Normal shut off time, like under a minute. Boot is probably 2 (but it feels like 20).

And can we stop forcing reboots every time there's an update? I had stuff I was working on, man, let me reboot when I'm ready!
 
2012-07-11 02:40:40 PM

InfamousBLT: The heck? It's gone green? This one? There isn't even any poop in this thread.

BRACE FOR IMPACT


the mods have gone crazy

maybe someone dropped a coke bottle in the office
 
2012-07-11 02:40:40 PM
1. Wipe drive

2. Reload OS

3. Install decent anti-virus/spyware (e.g. AVG)

4. Get Adblock Plus
 
2012-07-11 02:40:56 PM
www.oldversion.com
 
2012-07-11 02:41:43 PM

MrSteve007: The problem is that your computer doesn't have a "Turbo" button:
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 640x445]
From 33 mhz, to a blistering 66 mhz!!!


Ah, the joys of over clocking.
 
2012-07-11 02:42:03 PM

discgolfguru: This was my first system. You Commodore folks were barbarians.

[i121.photobucket.com image 300x281]

[i121.photobucket.com image 500x342]


F Yea!

I just dug a pile of mine out of the basement to take with me to LAN party nights, just for the shocked look on the teenagers faces...

BTW, get yerself one of these
www.atarimax.com

Link

It lets you use an old PC as a slave HDD/printer port/cdrom/network connection. Using a P4 laptop as a *slave* for my 800XL is *delicious*.
 
2012-07-11 02:42:14 PM
Multiple reasons.

1. Your first computer probably did not have a graphical interface. Graphics cost CPU cycles, even when you have a high end video card.
2. Your first computer ran one program at a time. Now you have your email client, browser, spreadsheet, wordprocessor, and god knows what else, all running at once.
3. As CPUs got faster, programmers got sloppier. It's a rare instance that programmers bother to run a performance analysis on their own code. Plus, a lot of the code being executed can't be optimized because it's part of the the OS, and Microsoft is certainly not trying to make YOUR code run faster (they have been caught putting delay loops in common APIs).

My first computer had 1K of memory (Yes, 1 kilobyte, not Meg or Gig). It was a development board. My first "real" computer had 64k (about 56k was usable). It ran cp/m. It wasn't unusual to spend a great deal of time trying to squeeze a few bytes out of the code requirements. These days, coders never think about how much memory they are using. They just keep allocating more and more, and assume the OS will deal with any problems.

And get off my farking lawn.
 
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