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(Deadspin)   With the Home Run Derby boos still ringing in Bud Selig's ear, look for some quiet changes to next year's contest   (deadspin.com) divider line 101
    More: Followup, Bud Selig, Major League Baseball, shoot out tournament, Baseball Writers Association of America, Billy Butler, shuttle, Kansas City Royals, ears  
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2929 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 Jul 2012 at 9:49 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-11 09:08:13 AM  
I propose whoever wins the home run derby gets credit for that many home runs in the world series.
 
2012-07-11 09:53:28 AM  
Everyone gets a trophy!
 
2012-07-11 09:55:44 AM  
Must have food related nickname. True blue guy here
 
2012-07-11 10:01:18 AM  

beantowndog: I propose whoever wins the home run derby gets credit for that many home runs in the world series.


I was going to say "Winning league gets spotted 2 runs in any WS game they choose", but I like this idea more. Teams have X number of home runs they can cash in at any point during any WS game.1st and 3rd in the bottom of the 9th down 1? Yeah, think we'll be using one of our home runs, ump.

It'll make winning the home run derby so important!
 
2012-07-11 10:03:22 AM  
Also, I thought this link brought up a good point, although admittedly it is quite homer-y. Still...if Phillie or Sawks fans do this, no one says anything beyond "Oh, those passionate Phillie/Sawks fans!"
 
2012-07-11 10:05:56 AM  
Does anyone actually care about the homerun derby anymore. I know half the MLB players dont.

So why not change it to a home run derby with just the pitchers batting, at least that would be fun to watch.
 
2012-07-11 10:05:59 AM  
How about using a pitching machine. Then every pitch would be right where the batter wants it. No more waiting for the perfect pitch.
 
2012-07-11 10:06:59 AM  
but but the sanctity of the home run derby! who gives a shiat.
 
2012-07-11 10:11:44 AM  
Bud Selig will require enthusiastic crowd noise pumped in and played after every hit. Berman will be given a mic and spot on the field to scream back back back over the PA system.
 
2012-07-11 10:12:33 AM  
I don't get it. The fans wanted a home town guy to root for, and Selig is going to try to put a home town guy on the team next year so they have someone to root for. And this is sucking the emotion out of the event. I can't seem to peel the onion, here. I guess I need another cup of coffee.
 
2012-07-11 10:15:50 AM  

you have pee hands: I don't get it. The fans wanted a home town guy to root for, and Selig is going to try to put a home town guy on the team next year so they have someone to root for. And this is sucking the emotion out of the event. I can't seem to peel the onion, here. I guess I need another cup of coffee.


The lesson you should take away from this is that Bud Selig is a terrible human being who usurped control of baseball from the last legitimate commissioner and deserves scorn for every decision he makes, up to and including going with the Grand Slam over the Rooty Tooty Fresh and Frooty at Denny's.
 
2012-07-11 10:16:49 AM  

LarryDan43: Bud Selig will require enthusiastic crowd noise pumped in and played after every hit. Berman will be given a mic and spot on the field to scream back back back over the PA system.


I was thinking they should do what they did during the Oscars, when they had trouble with people applauding during the "In Memory Of" segment...Just have Jennifer Hudson warble some sappy song over the PA while the event is going on.
 
2012-07-11 10:18:29 AM  
I'd rather they just replaced the home run derby with Brockian Ultra Cricket, but that's just me.
 
2012-07-11 10:20:00 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Everyone gets a trophy!


img201.imageshack.us
 
2012-07-11 10:20:08 AM  

jayhawk88: beantowndog: I propose whoever wins the home run derby gets credit for that many home runs in the world series.

I was going to say "Winning league gets spotted 2 runs in any WS game they choose", but I like this idea more. Teams have X number of home runs they can cash in at any point during any WS game.1st and 3rd in the bottom of the 9th down 1? Yeah, think we'll be using one of our home runs, ump.

It'll make winning the home run derby so important!


Except every team would now demand a spot in the Derby.

Therefore making it 3 times as long minimum.
 
2012-07-11 10:21:43 AM  

error 303: I'd rather they just replaced the home run derby with Brockian Ultra Cricket, but that's just me.


I'd rather they go with Ski Boxing.
 
2012-07-11 10:21:47 AM  

jayhawk88: up to and including going with the Grand Slam over the Rooty Tooty Fresh and Frooty at Denny's.


THAT MONSTER!! WHY WOULD ANYBODY DO THAT?!?!?!?!
 
2012-07-11 10:24:49 AM  

beantowndog: I propose whoever wins the home run derby gets credit for that many home runs in the world series.


I think they need to move the all star break to the end of the year and make the whole thing a giant goof. Just admit it's pointless and fun.

Instead of selecting like 4 sluggers from the NL and AL....they determine a cut (like in golf) where the top 20-30 guy in the league "make the cut"...and they all get a chance to compete. There are exactly two rounds and they get three outs per round....(no more of these 10 out chances).

Next, a HR derby only for pitchers....and/or they have to hit off a tee.....from second base....and they get to use those high tech composite bats.

Have a "base stealing" competition...but with slip and slides....the players get 90 feet to run as fast as they can then whoever slides the farthest wins...

Have a punt, pass, and kick competition (yes, I know it's baseball)....

Set up an American gladiator style obstacle course...


/the possibilities are endless once you stop pretending the pointless game is supposed to be serious.
 
2012-07-11 10:25:49 AM  

Why Would I Read the Article: jayhawk88: up to and including going with the Grand Slam over the Rooty Tooty Fresh and Frooty at Denny's.

THAT MONSTER!! WHY WOULD ANYBODY DO THAT?!?!?!?!


I know! Eating at Denny's is inexcusable.
 
2012-07-11 10:27:43 AM  

Theropod76: How about using a pitching machine. Then every pitch would be right where the batter wants it. No more waiting for the perfect pitch.


Physics doesn't work that way


Also shouldn't the HR Derby be the best hitters? They move the All-Star game around so everyone gets a chance to see the best players (less of an issue now that we have inter-league play), not so that you can root for the home town guy to stand up there and hit 10 ground outs.
 
2012-07-11 10:32:46 AM  
Well, since you know David Wright won't participate next year because of what happened to his swing the last time he was in the HR Derby, I can't wait to see who makes it in for the Mets.

Ike Davis? Lucas Duda? Maybe if Johan makes it, he can enter?

Although I doubt Mets fans would really care one way or the other, they have things to live for besides the HR Derby. Not many, mind you, but at least a few.
 
2012-07-11 10:33:18 AM  

Theropod76: How about using a pitching machine. Then every pitch would be right where the batter wants it. No more waiting for the perfect pitch.


Outside of Cooperstown, I've never been to a batting cage that had a machine that could even throw decent strikes half the time, to say nothing of perfect strikes all of the time.
 
2012-07-11 10:36:37 AM  

Jim from Saint Paul: Except every team would now demand a spot in the Derby.

Therefore making it 3 times as long minimum.


No see, whichever player wins, his league gets his home runs in the World Series, regardless of which team actually makes it.

Anyway, just kind of thinking about how ridiculous this "Winning league gets home field" thing is. We're going to be 10 years deep into this next year. 10 YEARS! I really hope someone in the sports media takes the 10 year anniversary to really take up the cause against this stupid rule.
 
2012-07-11 10:39:06 AM  
Get rid of the pitchers. Use a machine, everyone gets the same pitches to hit.

ESPN used to run a series from the 60's that paired up two active stars for a weekly home run contest (i.e. Mantle versus Killebrew, etc.) that was amazing despite a lack of production value. Here's the Wiki link. Crazy list of HOFers.

Link
 
2012-07-11 10:39:14 AM  

jayhawk88: Also, I thought this link brought up a good point, although admittedly it is quite homer-y. Still...if Phillie or Sawks fans do this, no one says anything beyond "Oh, those passionate Phillie/Sawks fans!"


This. I'm no Royals fan, but I thought ESPN's announcers & reporters were pretty retarded. The use of Philadelphia as an example is especially apropos. Philly fans have a reputation for being assholes, so they probably would've been given a pass (more or less) if they did something like this.

I'm not so sure I like the host team requirement, though. What if Petco Park hosted the ASG this year? Don't HR Derby competitors have to be all-stars first? The Padres' only real HR threat, Carlos Quentin, has been out for nearly 2 months now.
 
2012-07-11 10:41:03 AM  

Gunderson: Does anyone actually care about the homerun derby anymore. I know half the MLB players dont.


KC fans apparently do.
 
2012-07-11 10:44:13 AM  

Yanks_RSJ: Well, since you know David Wright won't participate next year because of what happened to his swing the last time he was in the HR Derby, I can't wait to see who makes it in for the Mets.

Ike Davis? Lucas Duda? Maybe if Johan makes it, he can enter?


Surely the Mets will have given Shane Victorino or Grady Sizemore $30 million more than they're worth by then?
 
2012-07-11 10:44:48 AM  
j.wigflip.com
 
2012-07-11 10:45:23 AM  
I don't have a problem with including a hometown guy every derby but making it an official rule was the wrong way to go about it. just quietly make it an unwritten rule and if a captain doesn't select a home town guy take him aside privately before the selections are made public.
 
2012-07-11 10:45:47 AM  

madden101: I'm not so sure I like the host team requirement, though. What if Petco Park hosted the ASG this year? Don't HR Derby competitors have to be all-stars first? The Padres' only real HR threat, Carlos Quentin, has been out for nearly 2 months now.


Chase Headley leads the Padres with an impressive 8 dingers. No, I didn't forget the "1" in front of that.
 
2012-07-11 10:45:52 AM  

jayhawk88: Surely the Mets will have given Shane Victorino or Grady Sizemore $30 million more than they're worth by then?


I have a friend who would murder Shane Victorino before he ever let him put on the uniform of his beloved Mets.
 
2012-07-11 10:47:04 AM  
here is how you fix the hr derby. Pitching machine. bonus runs for hitting a spot on demand(a sign pops up that says right, left or center, clowns. live squirrels. hot ladies shagging balls.

get rid of the asg home field bullshiat. best record, done. every other league does it. it's not that hard.
 
2012-07-11 10:58:20 AM  

jayhawk88: Yanks_RSJ: Well, since you know David Wright won't participate next year because of what happened to his swing the last time he was in the HR Derby, I can't wait to see who makes it in for the Mets.

Ike Davis? Lucas Duda? Maybe if Johan makes it, he can enter?

Surely the Mets will have given Shane Victorino or Grady Sizemore $30 million more than they're worth by then?


Sandy Alderson has done an admirable job thus far of proving he's not Omar Minaya, I pray he stays the course.

That being said, outside of batting average Ike Davis is having a pretty solid year - if he didn't have all those problems in April and part of May he might be on pace for 30+ homers easily.

/and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon.
 
2012-07-11 10:59:10 AM  
Or just learn something from the Easter League HRD: Link

Dunk tanks, someone dangling from a crane--But wait! There's more!
 
2012-07-11 10:59:15 AM  
Bud Selig is the worse thing to happen to baseball.
 
2012-07-11 11:02:46 AM  
The losing league of the asg should have to travel to all its games by bus during the playoffs
 
2012-07-11 11:03:51 AM  

jayhawk88: Also, I thought this link brought up a good point, although admittedly it is quite homer-y. Still...if Phillie or Sawks fans do this, no one says anything beyond "Oh, those passionate Phillie/Sawks fans!"


Philly would have been ripped mercilessly had they done the same.


Here's a couple quick fixes they could do to make it watchable:

Get rid of Berman
Not let it last 3 f'ing hours
Random trick balls are thrown in there (like trick golf balls)
 
2012-07-11 11:06:44 AM  

Fark You Buddy: Gunderson: Does anyone actually care about the homerun derby anymore. I know half the MLB players dont.

KC fans apparently do.


Well, to be fair, there really isn't much else to live for in KC...
 
2012-07-11 11:09:16 AM  

Gunderson: Well, to be fair, there really isn't much else to live for in KC...


BBQ.
 
2012-07-11 11:10:05 AM  

jayhawk88: Still...if Phillie or Sawks fans do this, no one says anything beyond "Oh, those passionate Phillie/Sawks fans!"


Are you serious?

Philly would have articles across the country talking about Santa Claus and Dononvan McNabb and THERE WAS A JAIL IN THE STADIUM!!!


How to fix the HR derby? You get 10 pitches. Not 10 "outs"
 
2012-07-11 11:19:08 AM  

jayhawk88: Also, I thought this link brought up a good point, although admittedly it is quite homer-y. Still...if Phillie or Sawks fans do this, no one says anything beyond "Oh, those passionate Phillie/Sawks fans!"


Uh, that article was whine-tastic. Want people to take the Royals seriously? Get your act together and work towards fielding a decent team. Which the Royals are finally starting to do, maybe. Rather than inflate their payroll by bringing in a few midlevel overpaid veterans to look like they give a damn. A crap team doesn't need Kyle Farnsworth and Jose Guillen sucking up ~20million a year.

But no, it's all "we've sucked forever and it's no fair that everyone thinks we suck!" From that link: "One of the standard bearers of this system is dishonesty. Major League Baseball has enacted policies and practices that run contrary to the pronounced goal of an equal playing field and a spirit of honest competition." Like 9 teams have won an NBA championship in the past 30 years. The NFL achieves parity by schedule manipulation (playing 2-3 tougher teams a year in a 16 game season makes a HUGE difference). In either of those leagues, at least until the lockouts and new CBAs, a bad top draft pick meant you had a ton of money locked into a guy, and were pretty much crippled for a number of years. Baseball actually does an alright job with parity.

Furthermore, as to east coast fans, the story would be "Oh, those passionate Phillie/Sawks fans! They're such assholes! Can you believe how assholish those assholes are?" Which is pretty critical. It's just hard to notice that criticism because you hear it all the time.
 
2012-07-11 11:24:10 AM  
Bunting derby. Hit HRs for show, bunt at targets for dough.

You have to run at the pitch when you try to hit it.

Yanks_RSJ: I have a friend who would murder Shane Victorino before he ever let him put on the uniform of his beloved Mets.


Let's just have the players murder each other! The league of the player left alive wins the World Series!
 
2012-07-11 11:26:42 AM  
Exploding baseballs. Wait, hear me out...the baseball is not armed when the pitcher has it. And contact with the catcher's glove won't be enough to arm it. But contact with a bat will be enough to arm it. The next thing the ball touches (the field, a player, a fan, etc.) will detonate it. It works for Michael Bay...
 
2012-07-11 11:28:47 AM  

ManateeGag: Bud Selig is the worse thing to happen to baseball.


I don't disagree, but it's a photo finish between Bud Selig and Scott Boras.
 
2012-07-11 11:32:09 AM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Exploding baseballs. Wait, hear me out...the baseball is not armed when the pitcher has it. And contact with the catcher's glove won't be enough to arm it. But contact with a bat will be enough to arm it. The next thing the ball touches (the field, a player, a fan, etc.) will detonate it. It works for Michael Bay...


I see your exploding baseballs, and I raise you the following:

1 free fan will get a single shot from a sniper rifle.
You know those stuntmen hydraulic platforms that launch them in the air? Yeah, put 'em in random places on the field.
Full contact base running.
The bases will occasionally electrocute you when you step on them - both offensive and defensive players.
Monkeyball rules - you can throw the ball at a runner to get them out.
 
2012-07-11 11:36:42 AM  

madden101: jayhawk88: Also, I thought this link brought up a good point, although admittedly it is quite homer-y. Still...if Phillie or Sawks fans do this, no one says anything beyond "Oh, those passionate Phillie/Sawks fans!"

This. I'm no Royals fan, but I thought ESPN's announcers & reporters were pretty retarded. The use of Philadelphia as an example is especially apropos. Philly fans have a reputation for being assholes, so they probably would've been given a pass (more or less) if they did something like this.

I'm not so sure I like the host team requirement, though. What if Petco Park hosted the ASG this year? Don't HR Derby competitors have to be all-stars first? The Padres' only real HR threat, Carlos Quentin, has been out for nearly 2 months now.


Counter argument: Pudge Rodriguez back in the HR Derby when it was in Detroit.
 
2012-07-11 11:38:51 AM  

zarberg: Sin_City_Superhero: Exploding baseballs. Wait, hear me out...the baseball is not armed when the pitcher has it. And contact with the catcher's glove won't be enough to arm it. But contact with a bat will be enough to arm it. The next thing the ball touches (the field, a player, a fan, etc.) will detonate it. It works for Michael Bay...

I see your exploding baseballs, and I raise you the following:

1 free fan will get a single shot from a sniper rifle.
You know those stuntmen hydraulic platforms that launch them in the air? Yeah, put 'em in random places on the field.
Full contact base running.
The bases will occasionally electrocute you when you step on them - both offensive and defensive players.
Monkeyball rules - you can throw the ball at a runner to get them out.


Ahhhh, taking a page from the NFLs playbook are we?

cache.gawkerassets.com
 
2012-07-11 11:40:07 AM  

SuperT: here is how you fix the hr derby. Pitching machine. bonus runs for hitting a spot on demand(a sign pops up that says right, left or center, clowns. live squirrels. hot ladies shagging balls.


Metal bats and bonus points for HRs that go 500+.
 
2012-07-11 11:41:00 AM  

Theropod76: How about using a pitching machine. Then every pitch would be right where the batter wants it. No more waiting for the perfect pitch.


I wanted to jump into the TV and cock punch Jose Bautista as he watched 98% of the pitches go by.

Putting a Hometown guy in the game is going to be awesome when the only representative of the home town team in the All Star game is a pitcher or will the home town team get two automatic entries onto the team if their first is a pitcher?

That or they can let a guy not actually playing in the All Star game participate?
 
2012-07-11 11:42:13 AM  

you have pee hands: SuperT: here is how you fix the hr derby. Pitching machine. bonus runs for hitting a spot on demand(a sign pops up that says right, left or center, clowns. live squirrels. hot ladies shagging balls.

Metal bats and bonus points for HRs that go 500+.


Hell, one of my video games has it right - tally up the total distance of all homers a player hits and use that as their score. Would at least be more exciting than what we have.
 
2012-07-11 11:52:40 AM  

srhp29: That or they can let a guy not actually playing in the All Star game participate?


Put those non All-Stars who can hit batting practice fastballs a mile like Adam Dunn and Mark Reynolds in the HR derby. Disconnect it from the all star game. It's a gimmick anyway, fill it up with the guys who at least might make it entertaining.

That said I don't think they could get me to watch unless they had all those kids in the outfield put metal pots over their head and run around as targets. *Clang*
 
2012-07-11 12:02:00 PM  
Put targets all over the field, replace the ads in the outfield with targets, give points values, just call it a hitting derby.

Most points wins

/Or just change the whole thing to a Rock and Jock Softball game (MTV you suck for not having this anymore).
 
2012-07-11 12:21:27 PM  

you have pee hands: Put those non All-Stars who can hit batting practice fastballs a mile like Adam Dunn and Mark Reynolds in the HR derby. Disconnect it from the all star game. It's a gimmick anyway, fill it up with the guys who at least might make it entertaining.


I totally agree with this. Disconnect the participants in the Derby from the actual All Stars. Don't make being an All Star required. Like the NBA does with its Dunk and 3Point Contests.

Put the big whiffers who hit the ball a mile participate.
 
2012-07-11 12:27:10 PM  

srhp29: you have pee hands: Put those non All-Stars who can hit batting practice fastballs a mile like Adam Dunn and Mark Reynolds in the HR derby. Disconnect it from the all star game. It's a gimmick anyway, fill it up with the guys who at least might make it entertaining.

I totally agree with this. Disconnect the participants in the Derby from the actual All Stars. Don't make being an All Star required. Like the NBA does with its Dunk and 3Point Contests.

Put the big whiffers who hit the ball a mile participate.


I swear they did that one year.
 
2012-07-11 12:32:22 PM  

NutznGum: error 303: I'd rather they just replaced the home run derby with Brockian Ultra Cricket, but that's just me.

I'd rather they go with Ski Boxing.


Calvinball FTMFW
 
2012-07-11 12:56:48 PM  

Dafatone: Baseball actually does an alright job with parity.


[you're serious let me laugh harder.jpg]
 
2012-07-11 12:59:46 PM  

theurge14: Dafatone: Baseball actually does an alright job with parity.

[you're serious let me laugh harder.jpg]


What? I think 14 or 15 teams have ever won in the NBA over about 60 years, with half of those championships going to two teams. Three teams from the AFC have made the Super Bowl in the past decade.

The NHL wins, sure.
 
2012-07-11 01:06:30 PM  
ManateeGag: The owners that selected Bud Selig is the worse thing to happen to baseball.

FTFY
 
2012-07-11 01:13:43 PM  

Dafatone: theurge14: Dafatone: Baseball actually does an alright job with parity.

[you're serious let me laugh harder.jpg]

What? I think 14 or 15 teams have ever won in the NBA over about 60 years, with half of those championships going to two teams. Three teams from the AFC have made the Super Bowl in the past decade.

The NHL wins, sure.


The occasional solid season from some mid market MLB team is supposed to prove the MLB is competitive? Every single player and coach in the game knows only those that spend more have a chance, and I can provide examples.

Small market teams are done by June, some even in May. Every year. Even those with good farm systems because like clockwork as soon as they are a free agent they're off to a club with more money. To the point where the small market teams fans go to games just to see all their former stars instead of their own team.

But hey, at least we Royals fans had our moment in the sun back in the 1980s back when we were among the top of the league in spending. There are still plenty of those unlucky ones whose teams haven't sniffed a title in 100 years. Who have to sit there and watch the then newly formed Florida farking Marlins assemble a hit squad to win a title and then immediately dismiss everyone the following season. That's about the only chance the rest of we peasants have before we have to run back to our shanties.

I know, David Glass is a cheapskate. But hey, when you can purchase a MLB team for $96 million and then a decade later have it be worth $351 million and STILL make a $10 million profit while the team continues to get their ass beat year after year... then there is a major problem in the system and the league. The owners are all totally cool with this situation, we the fans continue to go along with this because all we want to do is see baseball. And all seems well until a few KC fans boo at a home run derby. Then we're the assholes.
 
2012-07-11 01:19:26 PM  

theurge14: The occasional solid season from some mid market MLB team is supposed to prove the MLB is competitive? Every single player and coach in the game knows only those that spend more have a chance, and I can provide examples.


In the last 30 years the MLB has had more different champions than any other league by a significant margin.

I've done the stats before, i don't feel like recalculating... but look it up yourself.
 
2012-07-11 01:19:58 PM  

Dafatone: theurge14: Dafatone: ***snip***



Seasons Team Last pennant
66 Chicago Cubs 1945
43 Washington Nationals (Montreal Expos) never (franchise started in 1969)
35 Seattle Mariners never (franchise started in 1977)
32 Pittsburgh Pirates 1979
29 Milwaukee Brewers 1982 (never since joining NL in 1998)
28 Baltimore Orioles 1983
26 Kansas City Royals 1985
23 Los Angeles Dodgers 1988
21 Cincinnati Reds 1990
21 Oakland Athletics 1990
20 Minnesota Twins 1991

37% of the league has not been to a WS in 20 or more years.


Team Last Super Bowl appearance (1966-present) Seasons
New York Jets Super Bowl III 43
Kansas City Chiefs Super Bowl IV 42
Minnesota Vikings Super Bowl XI 35
Miami Dolphins Super Bowl XIX 27
Cincinnati Bengals Super Bowl XXIII 23
Washington Redskins Super Bowl XXVI 20

19% of the NFL has not been to a SB in over 20 years
 
2012-07-11 01:23:18 PM  
And were any of those a team that didn't decide to splurge and spend like New York for one season just to get that ring? I already mentioned the Florida Marlins.

The other leagues have to actually compete which means the ones that are good at competing win consistently.
 
2012-07-11 01:27:33 PM  

roc6783: Team Last Super Bowl appearance (1966-present) Seasons
New York Jets Super Bowl III 43
Kansas City Chiefs Super Bowl IV 42
Minnesota Vikings Super Bowl XI 35
Miami Dolphins Super Bowl XIX 27
Cincinnati Bengals Super Bowl XXIII 23
Washington Redskins Super Bowl XXVI 20


Browns
Texans
Jags
Lions
 
2012-07-11 01:27:57 PM  

roc6783: 37% of the league has not been to a WS in 20 or more years.


roc6783: 19% of the NFL has not been to a SB in over 20 years


Houston hasn't, Cleveland hasn't, Detroit hasn't (off the top of my head and not on your list.

So that's at least 28%.

Also, it's much easier to make it into the playoffs and further in the playoffs when you have 12 teams making the playoffs, rather than 4 and 8 and have single-elimination playoffs (oh, and there's been one less WS in the last 20 years than number of SBs).
 
2012-07-11 01:28:22 PM  

roc6783: Dafatone: theurge14: Dafatone: ***snip***


Sustained success with a similar monetary investment is much more likely in the NFL. You can have teams that go "all-in" on a season in July because they are doing well and hit the playoffs, but the players, fans, and front offices all know it won't last. The down teams stay down, and the up teams stay up. There may be some churn at the top, but outside of the Cubs, Nationals, and Dodgers, I do not see anyone leaving that list in the next 10 years.

//The Brewers had their shot last year and now will undergo 5+ "rebuilding" years, attendance and profit will plummet, and 2011 will seem like a distant dream that I tell my kids about.
 
2012-07-11 01:30:55 PM  
And don't forget when comparing NFL to MLB, with MLB they play so many games that the "outliers" work themselves out. With the NFL, one amazing game from an upstart or one injury to a QB changes everything.
 
2012-07-11 01:30:56 PM  

theurge14: The occasional solid season from some mid market MLB team is supposed to prove the MLB is competitive? Every single player and coach in the game knows only those that spend more have a chance, and I can provide examples.

Small market teams are done by June, some even in May. Every year. Even those with good farm systems because like clockwork as soon as they are a free agent they're off to a club with more money. To the point where the small market teams fans go to games just to see all their former stars instead of their own team.

But hey, at least we Royals fans had our moment in the sun back in the 1980s back when we were among the top of the league in spending. There are still plenty of those unlucky ones whose teams haven't sniffed a title in 100 years. Who have to sit there and watch the then newly formed Florida farking Marlins assemble a hit squad to win a title and then immediately dismiss everyone the following season. That's about the only chance the rest of we peasants have before we have to run back to our shanties.


You said examples. I'm not seeing examples. The Marlins are one, but that's a special case. The Marlins immediately dismissed everyone because they're owned by an asshole and were playing in a terrible city and terrible park. If you get 30 million a year from revenue sharing, you should be able to have a payroll over 30 million.

The Rays have been playing well. The Rangers have stepped up their payroll significantly, but they're not exactly a known powerhouse historically or anything, and had a pretty low payroll for a long time. The Orioles are looking good right now. The Nationals are worldbeaters. The Pirates were in 1st last I checked, and they're currently duking it out with the middle-of-the-pack-in-payroll Reds. The Athletics are quietly a .500 team with no payroll at all. Arizona is competitive, or at least in striking distance.

On the other hand, the Phillies have the 2nd highest payroll and aren't any good so far. The Red Sox and suddenly-rich Marlins are underperforming. The Cubs are middle of the pack and suck, and were higher up and sucked in the past couple years. The Twins went out and spent and are still terrible.

Small market, low payroll teams can compete. Plenty of them do. The Royals suck because they've only recently started trying to win. Before that, there was a lot of spending some money in order to look like they gave a crap and bring out fans, while cheaping out on draft picks and actually developing a team. Their owner sucks, and there's not much to be done about that, which is a terrible situation. But it's a lot more than "big market bad!"
 
2012-07-11 01:33:44 PM  

roc6783: roc6783: Dafatone: theurge14: Dafatone: ***snip***

Sustained success with a similar monetary investment is much more likely in the NFL. You can have teams that go "all-in" on a season in July because they are doing well and hit the playoffs, but the players, fans, and front offices all know it won't last. The down teams stay down, and the up teams stay up. There may be some churn at the top, but outside of the Cubs, Nationals, and Dodgers, I do not see anyone leaving that list in the next 10 years.

//The Brewers had their shot last year and now will undergo 5+ "rebuilding" years, attendance and profit will plummet, and 2011 will seem like a distant dream that I tell my kids about.


it's a shame too. I'd personally like to see a hard cap along with a salary floor.
 
2012-07-11 01:34:49 PM  

jayhawk88: up to and including going with the Grand Slam over the Rooty Tooty Fresh and Frooty at Denny's.


The RTF&F is only at IHOP, you charlatan!
 
2012-07-11 01:35:10 PM  

MugzyBrown: roc6783: Team Last Super Bowl appearance (1966-present) Seasons
New York Jets Super Bowl III 43
Kansas City Chiefs Super Bowl IV 42
Minnesota Vikings Super Bowl XI 35
Miami Dolphins Super Bowl XIX 27
Cincinnati Bengals Super Bowl XXIII 23
Washington Redskins Super Bowl XXVI 20

Browns
Texans
Jags
Lions


I missed the Lions and Browns due to the way the Wiki list was setup, my bad. Which means that the percentage is actually 25%.

Texans and Jags do not count as they have not been in existence for more than 20 years. Jags will likely be added in 2015.
 
2012-07-11 01:35:16 PM  
If MLB cut off 50 games from the regular season and added another 8 playoff teams then a lot more teams would have titles - has little to do with economics and more to do with the system working in conjunction with economics.

This is why relegation would be an especially stupid idea - that just increases the amount of damage the system does to teams outside of the top few.
 
2012-07-11 01:36:33 PM  

roc6783: Texans and Jags do not count as they have not been in existence for more than 20 years. Jags will likely be added in 2015.


If they haven't made a Super Bowl in the last 20 years, they belong on the list. Now, have they made the Super Bowl in the last 20 years?
 
2012-07-11 01:45:55 PM  

IAmRight: roc6783: Texans and Jags do not count as they have not been in existence for more than 20 years. Jags will likely be added in 2015.

If they haven't made a Super Bowl in the last 20 years, they belong on the list. Now, have they made the Super Bowl in the last 20 years?


Ya, that makes no sense, but ok. Do you also think Ichiro'shiats in Japan should be counted in his MLB stat line so he could be the all-time hits leader over Pete Rose?
 
2012-07-11 01:46:43 PM  

SuperT: roc6783: roc6783: Dafatone: theurge14: Dafatone: ***snip***

Sustained success with a similar monetary investment is much more likely in the NFL. You can have teams that go "all-in" on a season in July because they are doing well and hit the playoffs, but the players, fans, and front offices all know it won't last. The down teams stay down, and the up teams stay up. There may be some churn at the top, but outside of the Cubs, Nationals, and Dodgers, I do not see anyone leaving that list in the next 10 years.

//The Brewers had their shot last year and now will undergo 5+ "rebuilding" years, attendance and profit will plummet, and 2011 will seem like a distant dream that I tell my kids about.

it's a shame too. I'd personally like to see a hard cap along with a salary floor.


So would I. We aren't going to get New York to stop pushing the envelope on the top end so we might as well have to start pushing the David Glasses of the world to pay up or get out.
 
2012-07-11 01:53:38 PM  

roc6783: IAmRight: roc6783: Texans and Jags do not count as they have not been in existence for more than 20 years. Jags will likely be added in 2015.

If they haven't made a Super Bowl in the last 20 years, they belong on the list. Now, have they made the Super Bowl in the last 20 years?

Ya, that makes no sense, but ok. Do you also think Ichiro'shiats in Japan should be counted in his MLB stat line so he could be the all-time hits leader over Pete Rose?


If the Jags have only been around like 17 years, maybe we don't want to lump them into the list of "teams that haven't made the Super Bowl in 20 years." But we can put a * next to that stat, and point out that the Jags haven't made it in 17, so they're even more evidence to the point that's being made.
 
2012-07-11 01:56:43 PM  

roc6783: Ya, that makes no sense, but ok.


It makes perfect sense. You can't say "this is a list of teams that haven't made a championship game in the last 20 years" and not include teams based on them not having participated in all 20 years.

Technically, no MLB team should qualify since there was no 1994 World Series, so no team has had 20 playoff opportunities in the last 20 years.

And all of these are explained by the fact that the NFL has more playoff slots and a single-elimination tournament.
 
2012-07-11 01:58:48 PM  

Dafatone: If the Jags have only been around like 17 years, maybe we don't want to lump them into the list of "teams that haven't made the Super Bowl in 20 years." But we can put a * next to that stat, and point out that the Jags haven't made it in 17, so they're even more evidence to the point that's being made.


Though realistically, since the Browns had an interim period in that same span, they've had fewer years than the Jags. So they get an asterisk too.

I guess it's a good thing all the baseball expansion teams have made a title game already...wait, doesn't that kinda show that it's easier to build a team from scratch and put it in a title game in MLB?
 
2012-07-11 02:01:57 PM  

IAmRight: Dafatone: If the Jags have only been around like 17 years, maybe we don't want to lump them into the list of "teams that haven't made the Super Bowl in 20 years." But we can put a * next to that stat, and point out that the Jags haven't made it in 17, so they're even more evidence to the point that's being made.

Though realistically, since the Browns had an interim period in that same span, they've had fewer years than the Jags. So they get an asterisk too.

I guess it's a good thing all the baseball expansion teams have made a title game already...wait, doesn't that kinda show that it's easier to build a team from scratch and put it in a title game in MLB?


...Because it IS easier. Or at least, not much harder. It's not the "OMG only rich teams win" that everyone thinks it is.
 
2012-07-11 02:05:14 PM  
Who do I have to boo to get half the umps fired, comprehensive instant replay, and the DH in both leagues?
 
2012-07-11 02:05:30 PM  

roc6783: Dafatone: theurge14: Dafatone: ***snip***


Seasons Team Last pennant
66 Chicago Cubs 1945
43 Washington Nationals (Montreal Expos) never (franchise started in 1969)
35 Seattle Mariners never (franchise started in 1977)
32 Pittsburgh Pirates 1979
29 Milwaukee Brewers 1982 (never since joining NL in 1998)
28 Baltimore Orioles 1983
26 Kansas City Royals 1985
23 Los Angeles Dodgers 1988
21 Cincinnati Reds 1990
21 Oakland Athletics 1990
20 Minnesota Twins 1991

37% of the league has not been to a WS in 20 or more years.


Team Last Super Bowl appearance (1966-present) Seasons
New York Jets Super Bowl III 43
Kansas City Chiefs Super Bowl IV 42
Minnesota Vikings Super Bowl XI 35
Miami Dolphins Super Bowl XIX 27
Cincinnati Bengals Super Bowl XXIII 23
Washington Redskins Super Bowl XXVI 20

19% of the NFL has not been to a SB in over 20 years


In the 17 World Series since the strike, 10 different teams have WON the World Series.
In the last 17 Superbowls, 11 different team have WON the Superbowl
While the number of teams in both MLB and NFL have changed in that time, of the number of teams currently exist, 33.3% have won a World Series in the last 17 championships, while 34.3% have won a Superbowl in the last 17 Superbowls. I'd say during this cycle, both leagues are pretty equal in parity.
 
2012-07-11 02:08:46 PM  

roc6783:
Ya, that makes no sense, but ok. Do you also think Ichiro'shiats in Japan should be counted in his MLB stat line so he could be the all-time hits leader over Pete Rose?


I mean it depends on if he was regular or taking Ex-lax, I guess. You'll definiately get more shiats when using a PED.

/That was an awesome filter pwn
 
2012-07-11 02:08:50 PM  
In the last 5 championships, 7 different NFL teams (21.8% of teams) have MADE the Superbowl
In the last 5 championships, 8 different MLB teams (26.6% of teams) have MADE the World Series

So I'd say in the last 5 years, MLB has had more parity than the NFL
 
2012-07-11 02:10:45 PM  
Parity is not about who won the titles. Parity is not about small market teams having one year wonders. You cannot tell me with a straight face that the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are playing the same game when it comes to player acquisition, development, and retention as the Pirates, Royals, and Rays.

THAT'S where baseball is fundamentally broken.
 
2012-07-11 02:12:05 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Parity is not about who won the titles. Parity is not about small market teams having one year wonders. You cannot tell me with a straight face that the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are playing the same game when it comes to player acquisition, development, and retention as the Pirates, Royals, and Rays.

THAT'S where baseball is fundamentally broken.


This. Thank you.
 
2012-07-11 02:12:12 PM  

ElwoodCuse: You cannot tell me with a straight face that the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are playing the same game when it comes to player acquisition, development, and retention as the Pirates, Royals, and Rays.


They're playing the same game. Some teams CHOOSE to play more than others
 
2012-07-11 02:15:24 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Parity is not about who won the titles. Parity is not about small market teams having one year wonders. You cannot tell me with a straight face that the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are playing the same game when it comes to player acquisition, development, and retention as the Pirates, Royals, and Rays.

THAT'S where baseball is fundamentally broken.


The Phillies have the most losses of any team, in any sport, in any league, in any country, ever. That's not terribly relevant but I wanted to start off with that.

They've had a good run, and look to be on their way down. Before this good run (starting in 2007), they had been terrible for a while.

The Pirates and Royals were too cheap to draft players that would require more of a signing bonus. We're talking about a few million dollars, maybe 10 or so over the whole draft (and probably a lot less). That's on them.
 
2012-07-11 02:17:26 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Parity is not about who won the titles. Parity is not about small market teams having one year wonders. You cannot tell me with a straight face that the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are playing the same game when it comes to player acquisition, development, and retention as the Pirates, Royals, and Rays.

THAT'S where baseball is fundamentally broken.


I wasn't aware that there was a rule saying the Pirates, Royals, and Rays weren't allowed to pay players what they want to.

If they don't want to because they can't make enough money, maybe they should've put their business somewhere where they can draw enough customers to afford their product.
 
2012-07-11 02:17:57 PM  

MugzyBrown: ElwoodCuse: You cannot tell me with a straight face that the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are playing the same game when it comes to player acquisition, development, and retention as the Pirates, Royals, and Rays.

They're playing the same game. Some teams CHOOSE to play more than others


Some teams CHOOSE to spend near a quarter billion dollars on their team, pushing way beyond the rest of the league. Then pay some lip service to revenue sharing welfare while their friends buy up the small market teams and sit on them taking their checks. Some fans wish they could choose to say fark YOU to those teams and let them go play in their little 5 or 6 team league where are free to spend a country's GDP on Scott Boras' little band of prima donnas so the rest of us can stop being held hostage by paying taxes for stadiums for owners and having to stomach another ESPN Baseball Tonight 3 hours discussion of the Yanks and Red Sox and actually have some fun watching baseball.
 
2012-07-11 02:22:08 PM  

IAmRight: ElwoodCuse: Parity is not about who won the titles. Parity is not about small market teams having one year wonders. You cannot tell me with a straight face that the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are playing the same game when it comes to player acquisition, development, and retention as the Pirates, Royals, and Rays.

THAT'S where baseball is fundamentally broken.

I wasn't aware that there was a rule saying the Pirates, Royals, and Rays weren't allowed to pay players what they want to.

If they don't want to because they can't make enough money, maybe they should've put their business somewhere where they can draw enough customers to afford their product.


Huh. I was about to get all "it's not really attendance, I'm sure the Pirates have drawn well back when they were good." But they didn't. Still, they're up 5k a game over where they were a couple years ago. It's amazing what winning does.

theurge14: MugzyBrown: ElwoodCuse: You cannot tell me with a straight face that the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are playing the same game when it comes to player acquisition, development, and retention as the Pirates, Royals, and Rays.

They're playing the same game. Some teams CHOOSE to play more than others

Some teams CHOOSE to spend near a quarter billion dollars on their team, pushing way beyond the rest of the league. Then pay some lip service to revenue sharing welfare while their friends buy up the small market teams and sit on them taking their checks. Some fans wish they could choose to say fark YOU to those teams and let them go play in their little 5 or 6 team league where are free to spend a country's GDP on Scott Boras' little band of prima donnas so the rest of us can stop being held hostage by paying taxes for stadiums for owners and having to stomach another ESPN Baseball Tonight 3 hours discussion of the Yanks and Red Sox and actually have some fun watching baseball.


The problem is the cheap owners of these "small-market" teams. They're crazy rich, you know. They have the money to spend more on payroll. Actually fielding a good team draws more fans to the park, too. So blame the owners.
 
2012-07-11 02:26:51 PM  

theurge14: Some teams CHOOSE to spend near a quarter billion dollars on their team, pushing way beyond the rest of the league. Then pay some lip service to revenue sharing welfare while their friends buy up the small market teams and sit on them taking their checks. Some fans wish they could choose to say fark YOU to those teams and let them go play in their little 5 or 6 team league where are free to spend a country's GDP on Scott Boras' little band of prima donnas so the rest of us can stop being held hostage by paying taxes for stadiums for owners and having to stomach another ESPN Baseball Tonight 3 hours discussion of the Yanks and Red Sox and actually have some fun watching baseball.


Why do you want your billionare owner to pocket more of the money and not spend it on the team?
 
2012-07-11 02:30:18 PM  

you have pee hands: srhp29: That or they can let a guy not actually playing in the All Star game participate?

Put those non All-Stars who can hit batting practice fastballs a mile like Adam Dunn and Mark Reynolds in the HR derby. Disconnect it from the all star game. It's a gimmick anyway, fill it up with the guys who at least might make it entertaining.

That said I don't think they could get me to watch unless they had all those kids in the outfield put metal pots over their head and run around as targets. *Clang*


Adam Dunn was an All-Star this year.
 
2012-07-11 02:33:16 PM  
Alright, I'm done biatching and moaning. I still love baseball.

All-Star Parade through KC's Plaza

Wish I had been there.
 
2012-07-11 02:45:51 PM  
They could just make it so players can't be in more than 1 Home Run Derby per 3 years, and 5 for a winner. Spread it out a little.
 
2012-07-11 02:49:38 PM  
It would be funny if Selig was just saying he'd add the home town player, and then changes his mind at the last minute. You know, pulling a Cano.
 
2012-07-11 03:14:22 PM  

skrame: It would be funny if Selig was just saying he'd add the home town player, and then changes his mind at the last minute. You know, pulling a Cano.


Has Bud ever made a good decision? Because that would be more like Cano - not hitting a single one out of the park.
 
2012-07-11 03:52:45 PM  

zarberg: skrame: It would be funny if Selig was just saying he'd add the home town player, and then changes his mind at the last minute. You know, pulling a Cano.

Has Bud ever made a good decision? Because that would be more like Cano - not hitting a single one out of the park.


Wildcard. has been great for the game.
 
2012-07-12 01:06:32 AM  
Why wasn't a fuss made last year when Arizona fans booed Prince Fielder all weekend because he didn't pick Upton?
 
2012-07-12 10:23:59 AM  

SharkTrager: Why wasn't a fuss made last year when Arizona fans booed Prince Fielder all weekend because he didn't pick Upton?


Because its the Royals fans booing a Yankee. The nerve of backwoods ( backpairie?) fans booing the greatest team in world player
 
2012-07-12 12:03:03 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: SharkTrager: Why wasn't a fuss made last year when Arizona fans booed Prince Fielder all weekend because he didn't pick Upton?

Because its the Royals fans booing a Yankee. The nerve of backwoods ( backpairie?) fans booing the greatest team in world player


Your inferiority complex is showing.
 
2012-07-12 12:16:54 PM  
Media always going defend NY. No matter the dbag move
 
2012-07-12 01:00:27 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Media always going defend NY. No matter the dbag move


kentucky.straitpinkie.com
 
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