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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   Bud Selig calls Tampa Bay Rays' 29th-best MLB attendance "inexcusable." "Nobody can defend that." Maybe whoever is Number 30 might   (tampabay.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, Tampa Bay Rays, Commissioner of Baseball (MLB), Major League Baseball, Tampa Bay, Stu, Stuart Sternberg, Baseball Writers Association of America, interleague play  
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1335 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 Jul 2012 at 12:05 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-11 08:56:11 AM  
#30 is Cleveland, but that's because the owner is trying to drive attendance down so that she can move the team to Florida
 
2012-07-11 09:53:29 AM  
Maybe people don't like driving to an isolated part of town to sit indoors in summer.

Maybe the only baseball fans in florida are snowbirds watching spring training.
 
2012-07-11 10:14:29 AM  
That's the difference between Rays fans and say, Cubs fans. Cubs fans will show up even if the team is 30 games below .500. The Rays aren't in 1st place, they're not even in 2nd place, so the fans aren't showing up. The year they got to the WS was a fluke, and people now realize that. In a division with the Yankees and the Red Sox, regardless of how either team is playing, it's going to be hard to overtop them.
 
2012-07-11 10:18:06 AM  

Coco LaFemme: That's the difference between Rays fans and say, Cubs fans. Cubs fans will show up even if the team is 30 games below .500. The Rays aren't in 1st place, they're not even in 2nd place, so the fans aren't showing up. The year they got to the WS was a fluke, and people now realize that. In a division with the Yankees and the Red Sox, regardless of how either team is playing, it's going to be hard to overtop them.


I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "fluke" when they've made the playoffs in 3 of the past 4 seasons.
 
2012-07-11 10:38:36 AM  

Rex_Banner: #30 is Cleveland, but that's because the owner is trying to drive attendance down so that she can move the team to Florida


i212.photobucket.com
 
2012-07-11 10:41:12 AM  
The Rays create more of their own talent than either the Red Sox or Yankees, and from afar look like one of the best baseball organizations around for the product on the field, both in terms of talent, and in terms of trades. I'm sure they make mistakes, but any org that comes up with a Zobrist, a Longoria, a Crawford or a Shields, not to mention probably ten more slightly less but still valuable players is doing something right. I am aware Zobrist was gotten in a trade, but they had to have talent to trade for talent.

Compare/contrast this with the feeble, ineffective, incompetent Mariners organization, which back in the early 90s was coming up with guys like Griffey, A-Rod, Edgar, Buhner, Randy Johnson and the rest. Tampa's organization right now reminds me a lot of those early 90s Mariners, outstanding farm system bursting over with talent.

Its a shame the home town fans don't reward that. The Kingdome used to be packed for Mariners games, as did Safeco til several years after Bavasi's Reign of Error took over. We at least give you a few seasons of honeymoon following a near-miss title run.

Tampa must be a tougher sell, but maybe baseball (and all major leagues) should look at how much over selling they do of major media markets in the national media as one culprit. New York and Boston are on every stinking effing week on ESPN it seems like. Maybe MLB should demand that minor market teams get promoted as much OR MORE than the teams that already have national fan bases. It might help Tampa and other mid-small-market compete, and not just be farm clubs for the big four or big six or whatever it is.

Still no explaining the Cubs though. Major market, permanent fail, choke job any time they get close. Its remarkable.
 
2012-07-11 10:51:10 AM  

Coco LaFemme: That's the difference between Rays fans and say, Cubs fans. Cubs fans will show up even if the team is 30 games below .500. The Rays aren't in 1st place, they're not even in 2nd place, so the fans aren't showing up. The year they got to the WS was a fluke, and people now realize that. In a division with the Yankees and the Red Sox, regardless of how either team is playing, it's going to be hard to overtop them.


Hell, even Orioles fans are showing up. Though to be fair, if you live in Florida, you probably don't want to go out in the sweltering heat for 5 hours, to sit by a bunch of people who are sweating buckets, to see a team nobody cares about.
 
2012-07-11 10:53:22 AM  

Generation_D: which back in the early 90s was coming up with guys like Griffey, A-Rod, Edgar, Buhner, Randy Johnson and the rest.


Buhner started with the Yankees, Johnson with the Expos.
 
2012-07-11 10:59:29 AM  
Yep, trade for value as well as create value. Both are valid ways to build a club, but you have to know what you are doing to evaluate talent. The point was the early 90s Mariners knew enough to steal Buhner for next to nothing, and send permanent malcontent Langston to Montreal for Johnson. Ironically they met in the 1 game special playoff in 1995, Johnson prevailed 7-0.
 
2012-07-11 10:59:34 AM  
I live in St. Pete, and there ARE hardcore Rays fans. I bike to work at night too when a lot of games get out, and it's not like the games are as deserted as they are made out to be. Central Avenue is usually pretty happening after a game. Good vibes, good fun.

But none of that has anything to do with the city of Tampa. Those people wouldn't cross a bridge unless you paid them.
 
2012-07-11 11:04:48 AM  

Confabulat: But none of that has anything to do with the city of Tampa. Those people wouldn't cross a bridge unless you paid them.


You mean the SCARY BRIDGE OF DOOM?
 
2012-07-11 11:08:59 AM  

beantowndog: You mean the SCARY BRIDGE OF DOOM?


This is the only way to get to St Petersburg.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-11 11:19:23 AM  

BunkoSquad: beantowndog: You mean the SCARY BRIDGE OF DOOM?

This is the only way to get to St Petersburg.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 300x400]


That isn't a bridge, that's goddamn pre-Columbian art!
 
2012-07-11 11:25:16 AM  

Confabulat: I live in St. Pete, and there ARE hardcore Rays fans. I bike to work at night too when a lot of games get out, and it's not like the games are as deserted as they are made out to be. Central Avenue is usually pretty happening after a game. Good vibes, good fun.

But none of that has anything to do with the city of Tampa. Those people wouldn't cross a bridge unless you paid them.


Nailed it, as always.
 
2012-07-11 11:27:57 AM  
Imagine the gall of a guy who says it's inexcusable for consumers not to pay for his product.
 
2012-07-11 12:15:28 PM  
The Rays need to move. Have a great team and still have no hope of selling tickets? You're in a bad baseball town.

And no, I don't want to hear about a bridge. I've waited in traffic for 2 hours on the way to many a baseball game. Some places have better fans than others.
 
2012-07-11 12:15:52 PM  
Hell, if I lived in Tampa, I'd go to as many of their games as possible just to watch Joe Maddon manage. On any given night, he'd have no problem putting your grandmother in the starting lineup and batting her cleanup, just because.

The guy is part-genius, part-troll, and unlike LaRussa, I'd actually like to have a beer with him.
 
2012-07-11 12:16:34 PM  
Step 1: Move Rays to Montreal
Step 2: Pick a different name other than Expos
Step 3: Profit
 
2012-07-11 12:16:45 PM  
I lived in florida for a great many years. The problem with the rays is this, florida fans are the fairest of the fairweather fans. Even when the team is winning, and in the playoffs, and about to go to the world series/stanely cup/super bowl, they generally don't care.

also, the trop is kind of a pain to get to. And florida just isn't really into baseball, at all. At games it was mostly northern transplants, like myself.

but the tampa club, the scouts, the gm, the managers, those guys, those guys are top shelf all the way. I can't imagine what they would do with money.
 
2012-07-11 12:19:04 PM  
Even if all teams were doing amazingly well, there would, obviously, still be a team in last or near last place in attendance numbers. Just sayin'.

/I hate when people use the term "just sayin". Also hate slashies.
 
2012-07-11 12:19:34 PM  

Coco LaFemme: That's the difference between Rays fans and say, Cubs fans.


Well, that and the fact that Chicago has 10 times as many residents as St. Petersburg. (10.2x, actually.)
 
2012-07-11 12:27:30 PM  

Rex_Banner: #30 is Cleveland, but that's because the owner is trying to drive attendance down so that she can move the team to Florida


The A's owner has pretty much the same motivation, except the destination is San Jose.

/willing to bet in actual attendance (as opposed to ticket sales) the A's are dead last.
 
2012-07-11 12:30:10 PM  

SuperT: The problem with the rays is this, florida fans are the fairest of the fairweather fans.


Are they even that? I was under the impression most baseball fans in Florida are transplants from NY. If the stadium's packed when the Yankees are in town, the Rays are basically the visiting team.
 
2012-07-11 12:30:23 PM  

bubbaprog: Coco LaFemme: That's the difference between Rays fans and say, Cubs fans.

Well, that and the fact that Chicago has 10 times as many residents as St. Petersburg. (10.2x, actually.)


...wat?

Estimates from Wiki
Tampa MSA population (2010): 4,228,855
Chicago MSA (2009): 10,055,638

Comparing the town populations directly is pants-on-head retarded, if that was your intention.
 
2012-07-11 12:33:04 PM  

Droog8912: bubbaprog: Coco LaFemme: That's the difference between Rays fans and say, Cubs fans.

Well, that and the fact that Chicago has 10 times as many residents as St. Petersburg. (10.2x, actually.)

...wat?

Estimates from Wiki
Tampa MSA population (2010): 4,228,855
Chicago MSA (2009): 10,055,638

Comparing the town populations directly is pants-on-head retarded, if that was your intention.


Plus there's 2 teams in Chicago, so you can cut the number of Cubs fans in half.

:D
 
2012-07-11 12:33:35 PM  
I live in Tampa and I'm from Chicago and a Cubs fan. The Rays draw pretty well if you look at it per captia and not just straight numbers. I held season tickets for 3 of the last 4 years.

All this talk is doing is creating pressure for St. Pete to release the Rays from the lease at Tropicanna Field so they can move more down town area.
 
2012-07-11 12:33:47 PM  

Killer Cars: The guy is part-genius, part-troll, and unlike LaRussa, I'd actually like to have a beer with him.


LaRussa would like to have a beer with him too. Actually, forget the "with him" part.
 
2012-07-11 12:37:20 PM  
If you can't support a team like the Rays, who've made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years and did it with smart drafting and player development, then you're not a baseball city and don't deserve a team.
 
2012-07-11 12:37:28 PM  
Attendance in Cleveland (at least since the end of the sellout streak) has been dogsh*t in the spring, picked up during the summer and subsequently fallen back to dogsh*t at the end of the season when the team collapses.

It's hard to get fans to an open air ballpark for the 2 months that it's 40 degrees and sleeting and even harder to get them out to see a team with a 60-93 record and a disabled list longer than its active roster.

/Goes to the games when it's 40 and sleeting
//Goes to the summer games
///Will go to the games during and after our annual late season collapse
 
2012-07-11 12:41:42 PM  

dragonchild: SuperT: The problem with the rays is this, florida fans are the fairest of the fairweather fans.

Are they even that? I was under the impression most baseball fans in Florida are transplants from NY. If the stadium's packed when the Yankees are in town, the Rays are basically the visiting team.


as a sox fan when they were in town and I went to the games it was basically an away game for the rays.
 
2012-07-11 12:42:23 PM  

Dafatone: The Rays need to move. Have a great team and still have no hope of selling tickets? You're in a bad baseball town.

And no, I don't want to hear about a bridge. I've waited in traffic for 2 hours on the way to many a baseball game. Some places have better stupiderfans than others.

 
2012-07-11 12:42:44 PM  

NutznGum: If you can't support a team like the Rays, who've made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years and did it with smart drafting and player development, then you're not a baseball city and don't deserve a team.


First of all, the "did it with smart drafting and player development" line is stupid in every sport. That's like saying you're happier with a woman if she's a virgin when you meet her - it counts more if she's never been with anyone else.

Secondly, if only "baseball cities" are allowed to have teams, MLB is going to be pretty damn small. Other sports are way bigger than baseball in most major league cities.
 
2012-07-11 12:43:18 PM  
People in the cities of Florida don't care about sports like other regions.. it's probably actually makes them more reasonable people than the rest of us
 
2012-07-11 12:45:31 PM  

IAmRight: NutznGum: If you can't support a team like the Rays, who've made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years and did it with smart drafting and player development, then you're not a baseball city and don't deserve a team.

First of all, the "did it with smart drafting and player development" line is stupid in every sport. That's like saying you're happier with a woman if she's a virgin when you meet her - it counts more if she's never been with anyone else.

Secondly, if only "baseball cities" are allowed to have teams, MLB is going to be pretty damn small. Other sports are way bigger than baseball in most major league cities.


The point still stands. If you can't sell tickets to see one of the most exciting teams in the league, how are you ever going to get ticket sales up?
 
2012-07-11 12:47:02 PM  

NutznGum: If you can't support a team like the Rays, who've made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years and did it with smart drafting and player development, then you're not a baseball city and don't deserve a team.


No worries; the MLB is a monopoly explicitly blessed by Congress. Their business model has little to do with local fan satisfaction.
 
2012-07-11 12:49:08 PM  

IAmRight: NutznGum: If you can't support a team like the Rays, who've made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years and did it with smart drafting and player development, then you're not a baseball city and don't deserve a team.

First of all, the "did it with smart drafting and player development" line is stupid in every sport. That's like saying you're happier with a woman if she's a virgin when you meet her - it counts more if she's never been with anyone else.

Secondly, if only "baseball cities" are allowed to have teams, MLB is going to be pretty damn small. Other sports are way bigger than baseball in most major league cities.


What I mean by the drafting and development is that they're able to compete despite having such a small payroll. And by baseball city, I mean a city with fans that like baseball and go to the games, it has nothing to do with the size of the city or how popular baseball is relative to any other sport.
 
2012-07-11 12:54:04 PM  
I've got to say, when I've been in Florida during the baseball season, I've gone out of my way to attend Rays games. I hit my third or fourth game one time when I had a spare day in Miami, and drove my ass up to St. Pete for the game. As I reached that nightmare bridge, the skies opened and flash-flooding began. Traffic slowed to about 3mph, and that last 10-odd minutes of the trip took 40.

But the ballpark sells A. Keith's Brown, the game was good, and the return trip easy and uneventful, so it was great craic. The swelter even had the decency to remain, for the most part, outside.

I still can't get used to the warning-track carpet, though.
 
2012-07-11 12:56:32 PM  
The Trop is a serious pain to get to. They have the entire Tampa area and they pick the one spot that makes it most difficult for the majority of the population to get to. Way to go.

content.screencast.com
 
2012-07-11 12:57:47 PM  

WTF Indeed: Step 1: Move Rays to Montreal
Step 2: Pick a different name other than Expos
Step 3: Profit


Only thing worse than whiny rays fans are nostalgic expos fans.
 
2012-07-11 01:01:13 PM  
In contrast, the Lightning, who play right between where the M and P are in Tampa in the map above, were 13th in the league in attendance for the NHL (18,468 per game).
 
2012-07-11 01:02:34 PM  

WTF Indeed: Step 1: Move Rays to Montreal
Step 2: Pick a different name other than Expos
Step 3: Profit


Lol. I remember going to quite a few expos games where the attendance was like 3k max, and a majority of those fans being for the other team. Expos' apparel only became popular once they left town - in a retro fashion.
 
2012-07-11 01:04:07 PM  
Just tarp off half the stadium then call it a sell-out, like the Jags do
 
2012-07-11 01:05:23 PM  

soopey: WTF Indeed: Step 1: Move Rays to Montreal
Step 2: Pick a different name other than Expos
Step 3: Profit

Only thing worse than whiny rays fans are nostalgic expos fans.


I'm a Nats fan, and I'm still nostalgic for the Expos.

// Andre Dawson, Gary Carter, Randy Johnson, Eck, Hubie Brooks (whose damn baseball card was in EVERY goddamn pack), and they'd have made the playoffs in 1994 if not for Bud Selig's greed
// just some of the names I can recall from Montreal's rosters
 
2012-07-11 01:07:55 PM  

jackiepaper: /willing to bet in actual attendance (as opposed to ticket sales) the A's are dead last.


I'm in Sacramento, and don't pay much attention to the local media, nor have I researched this claim. But it's been claimed that the AAA River Cats outdraw the MLB A's that are two hours away on most nights when both are playing at home.
 
2012-07-11 01:08:04 PM  

roncofooddehydrator: In contrast, the Lightning, who play right between where the M and P are in Tampa in the map above, were 13th in the league in attendance for the NHL (18,468 per game).


WTF happened? Was the stadium already there before the Rays? And even if it was why go to the low pop area?
 
2012-07-11 01:09:18 PM  

Dr Dreidel: // Andre Dawson, Gary Carter, Randy Johnson, Eck, Hubie Brooks (whose damn baseball card was in EVERY goddamn pack), and they'd have made the playoffs in 1994 if not for Bud Selig's greed
// just some of the names I can recall from Montreal's rosters


Tim Raines, Warren Cromartie, Tim Wallach, Bill Lee, Steve Rogers

/How in the hell did they only make the playoffs once, and then only in the 1981 'split' season?
 
2012-07-11 01:10:27 PM  

Decillion: roncofooddehydrator: In contrast, the Lightning, who play right between where the M and P are in Tampa in the map above, were 13th in the league in attendance for the NHL (18,468 per game).

WTF happened? Was the stadium already there before the Rays? And even if it was why go to the low pop area?


Yeah, Tampa was a relocation threat for years because they had a stadium ready to go. The White Sox and the Giants, off the top of my head.
 
2012-07-11 01:14:59 PM  

buckeyebrain: Dr Dreidel: // Andre Dawson, Gary Carter, Randy Johnson, Eck, Hubie Brooks (whose damn baseball card was in EVERY goddamn pack), and they'd have made the playoffs in 1994 if not for Bud Selig's greed
// just some of the names I can recall from Montreal's rosters

Tim Raines, Warren Cromartie, Tim Wallach, Bill Lee, Steve Rogers

/How in the hell did they only make the playoffs once, and then only in the 1981 'split' season?


I have no idea. How is it my Braves (screw off, I've got dual loyalties) only won one WS during a run of 14 straight playoffs?

// was Matt Williams on that 1994 team?
// and didn't Wally Joyner do a tour up north?
 
2012-07-11 01:18:32 PM  

Dr Dreidel: // was Matt Williams on that 1994 team?


No, he was still with the Giants. He was on pace for Maris' HR record before the strike cut the season short. In fact, he was never an Expo.
 
2012-07-11 01:20:30 PM  

buckeyebrain: Decillion: roncofooddehydrator: In contrast, the Lightning, who play right between where the M and P are in Tampa in the map above, were 13th in the league in attendance for the NHL (18,468 per game).

WTF happened? Was the stadium already there before the Rays? And even if it was why go to the low pop area?

Yeah, Tampa was a relocation threat for years because they had a stadium ready to go. The White Sox and the Giants, off the top of my head.


The Indians as well.
 
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