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(The New York Times)   Israel declares that the West Bank isn't occupied - it's part of Israel. Well, that settles that   (nytimes.com) divider line 403
    More: Sad, West Bank, Israelis, Jewish settler, occupied territories, Judea, public land, private ownership, good governance  
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7203 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jul 2012 at 6:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-10 03:09:48 PM
HOTY candidate. Well done.
 
2012-07-10 03:13:11 PM
They should just pull out all the crazy Settlers, keep All of Jerusalem and return the rest to Jordan. The Palestinians, Arab league and UN would have no idea wtf just happened.
 
2012-07-10 03:23:17 PM
ya, we'll see about that.
 
2012-07-10 03:38:33 PM
They decided they needed the living space to the west.
 
2012-07-10 03:41:30 PM
They aren't helping their long term cause ...
 
2012-07-10 03:50:26 PM
With friends like these....
 
2012-07-10 03:55:20 PM
Israel should stop pussyfooting around, and stop pining for the possibility of peace through a two-state solution. End the daily barrage of rockets into Israel, and send the Palestinians back to their homeland--Jordan.

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

--PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein, March 31, 1977

"Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."

--PLO President Yassir Arafat, September 13, 1993, explaining to Jordanian TV why he signed onto the Oslo Accords.
 
2012-07-10 03:59:03 PM
So who lived there before the jews were handed the land on a silver platter of guilt and Christian enthusiasm?
 
2012-07-10 04:12:10 PM
The sad part is that there will be a sizable portion of the population that will reject this panel's recommendations, especially the second-class citizen Israeli Arabs, but nonetheless many outsiders will assume that Israeli public opinion is somehow monolithic.
 
2012-07-10 04:13:56 PM

BravadoGT: Israel should stop pussyfooting around


Well I'm glad to see the pro-"ethnic cleansing" contingent has chimed in. Milosevic would be proud.
 
2012-07-10 04:25:07 PM

BravadoGT: Israel should stop pussyfooting around, and stop pining for the possibility of peace through a two-state solution. End the daily barrage of rockets into Israel, and send the Palestinians back to their homeland--Jordan.


So that would be your final solution to the Palestinian question?
 
2012-07-10 04:54:19 PM

GAT_00: They decided they needed the living space to the west.


umm... They left Gaza
 
2012-07-10 04:55:53 PM
The arabs could always start another war against Israel, lose again, then claim that Israel was mean to them.

If the Palestinians ever grow up, stop being islamic terrorists and terrible racists, and decide they want a real gov't instead of a thugocracy run by criminals, then they will be ready to have their own country. Until then, the poison that their society produces should not be rewarded in any way.
 
2012-07-10 04:58:58 PM
www.thehypertexts.com
 
2012-07-10 05:06:05 PM
Fark it. When kids can't share with each other, adults take away the contested toy so nobody gets to play with it. I say kick them both out, and give the land to, I don't know, those dudes from Polynesia whose islands are sinking because of rising sea levels.
 
2012-07-10 05:56:14 PM

Uzzah: Fark it. When kids can't share with each other, adults take away the contested toy so nobody gets to play with it. I say kick them both out, and give the land to, I don't know, those dudes from Polynesia whose islands are sinking because of rising sea levels.


Do what Solomon did when two women went to him each claiming a baby.

Only instead of threatening to cut it in half, raze the earth. See which side will acquiesce first. If neither side budges, then raze the earth.
 
2012-07-10 05:59:01 PM
We could make it about gay marriage. Farklibs love gay marriage.

Whichever gov't recognizes gay marriage first gets all the land.

Ready. Set. Go!
 
2012-07-10 06:26:15 PM

zedster: GAT_00: They decided they needed the living space to the west.

umm... They left Gaza


Wow, I screwed that up both ways.
 
2012-07-10 06:29:50 PM
The west bank of what? And what the hell kind on name for a country is "West Bank" anyway?
 
2012-07-10 06:31:39 PM
How often through history, the oppressed become the oppressors. I am looking at you Israel.

The victims of racism become racist.
The victims of sexism, become sexist themselves
etc
etc
It never ends, and in their twisted logic they justify it somehow.
 
2012-07-10 06:31:42 PM
It was given to the Jews by god.
 
2012-07-10 06:32:07 PM

MeinRS6: We could make it about gay marriage. Farklibs love gay marriage.

Whichever gov't recognizes gay marriage first gets all the land.

Ready. Set. Go!


Well that's more retarded than usual.
 
2012-07-10 06:36:56 PM

Nick Nostril: The west bank of what? And what the hell kind on name for a country is "West Bank" anyway?


I hope you're being silly, but since I'm not confident of a random's geographic ability...

The Jordan River.
 
Heb
2012-07-10 06:37:07 PM

BalugaJoe: It was given to the Jews by god.


Oh you go too far, sir, too far. Great Britain it may be, but divine?
 
2012-07-10 06:38:42 PM

Marcus Aurelius: [www.thehypertexts.com image 640x426]


That's what happens when you lose wars.

/Ask Germany what happened to East Prussia.
 
2012-07-10 06:39:51 PM
Who cares? They can "legalize" what they want in Israel.

The UN and every legal body on the planet will not recognize it.

Exactly how the Israelis scream about Jerusalem being their capital so all foreign embassies have to be there. The rest of the world shrugs its shoulders and sets up in Tel Aviv.
 
2012-07-10 06:40:29 PM

GAT_00: zedster: GAT_00: They decided they needed the living space to the west.

umm... They left Gaza

Wow, I screwed that up both ways.


Relevant.
 
2012-07-10 06:40:52 PM
"It was given to the Jews by god."

This bag of trololol was given to me by God.
 
2012-07-10 06:41:01 PM
You know what? Just give the god damn land back to Jordan. Let them deal with the Palestinians.
 
2012-07-10 06:43:11 PM
The Arab world is big on "right of conquest" as long as it's Muslims doing the conquering.
 
2012-07-10 06:44:52 PM

JohnAnnArbor: /Ask Germany what happened to East Prussia.


Uh, no. We have laws that say that you can't just keep territory you take in armed conflict, you can't occupy it indefinitely, and you can't arrest people in that territory and then transport to your country for incarceration. If you do occupy, you are responsible for the health and well being of the entire Occupied Population.

Remember how Russia rolled into Georgia a while ago? That Saskashvilli guy was poking them and they rolled right in. Then they pulled out. All the way out. Because it's an international law and Russia doesn't have the USA to veto any resolution.

And in your analogy the Israelis are the Germans in WWI?
 
2012-07-10 06:46:12 PM
NYTimes has always been anti-semetic.
 
2012-07-10 06:46:16 PM

JohnAnnArbor: The Arab world is big on "right of conquest" as long as it's Muslims doing the conquering.


Two wrongs, etc., etc...
 
2012-07-10 06:46:23 PM

Marcus Aurelius: [www.thehypertexts.com image 640x426]


Palestine wasn't a country prior to 1946. It was a British Territory that it held following the break up of the Ottoman Empire following WW2. That map unfairly indicates that Israelis kicked Arabs out of Israel in 1946. In 1946, the British Government and the UN tried to setup two countries, Israel and an Arab government. The Arabs rebelled and began a Civil War. 700,000 Arabs fled during the Civil War and became the root of today's "Refuges". There is a sizable Arab population that is part of the Israeli population, who didn't participate in the Civil War. They continued to own their land.

Now there is a sizable Arab population from lands that were citizens of other countries surrounding Israel. When those countries attacked Israel, and their lands were captured, we got "Palestinian Refuges".

Countries who lost the land to Israel, in following wars, have routinely refused to negotiate for the return of that land to them. They want no part of the land or the people who live there.

If the residents of that land settled down and acted like they wanted to be part of Israel, instead of agitating for the overthrow of the Israeli Government, in favor of themselves, this would have been over a long long time ago.

Why we continue to think the losers of a Civil War should have a right to a separate country, I will never know. It's like having people in the US agitating for the return of the Confederacy.
 
2012-07-10 06:49:08 PM
Brentwood is not enough?
 
2012-07-10 06:50:29 PM

weiserfireman: It's like having people in the US agitating for the return of the Confederacy.


Last I checked, they weren't being subjugated, treated to police/military checkpoints, and having their land stolen out from under them...but hey, totally the same, right?
 
2012-07-10 06:51:03 PM
When you enter into two wars of extermination (1948, 1973) and plan another (1967, pre-empted) and lose all three times, it might be time to change your tactics from "kill all the Jews." There's been no sign that there's been a change of attitude over the years, unfortunately.

Oh, and a lot of the settlers, especially the dudes that take hilltops without permits and randomly destroy Palestinian property and/or attack them, are complete asshats. Just to be clear.

/Remember, Arafat could have had almost all of the West Bank PLUS some of Israel proper PLUS Gaza as long as he was willing to say that the eternal war against the Jews was over. He decided to send in hundreds of suicide bombers instead. Thus, the wall was built.
 
2012-07-10 06:51:55 PM

weiserfireman: If the residents of that land settled down and acted like they wanted to be part of Israel, instead of agitating for the overthrow of the Israeli Government, in favor of themselves, this would have been over a long long time ago.


Well that's your problem right there.

Quite a few people will not "settle down" when their land is stolen (er, confiscated) by a foreign country, and some of them fight back. We call it backbone. Some of them will fight tooth and nail to protect their families, their land, their heritage, and their culture. Even if they're subjugated and beaten down for 40 years or more, they'll actually continue to resist, even if they're fighting with rocks against tanks.

People tend to call it RESISITING A FOREIGN OCCUPIER, Israelis call it terrorism.

I know if Russia occupied my country illegally, claiming it was Divine providence, my hands would be covered in Russian blood before long.
 
2012-07-10 06:52:16 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-07-10 06:52:34 PM
The Jews need to stop pussyfooting around. Go in, kick out the Palestinians, incite arab outrage, jumps start world war 3. I got stuff to do. I just want to get it over with.
 
2012-07-10 06:53:14 PM
Summon Tatsuma!

Did it work?
 
2012-07-10 06:53:17 PM

BalugaJoe: It was given to the Jews by god.


And taken away numerous times from them by the same God for not abiding by God's rules.

By coming back again and again to the area, the Jews are actually tempting God into another smiting episode. Like poking a bear with a stick, it probably won't end well.
 
2012-07-10 06:54:26 PM

jakomo002: JohnAnnArbor: /Ask Germany what happened to East Prussia.

Uh, no. We have laws that say that you can't just keep territory you take in armed conflict, you can't occupy it indefinitely, and you can't arrest people in that territory and then transport to your country for incarceration. If you do occupy, you are responsible for the health and well being of the entire Occupied Population.

Remember how Russia rolled into Georgia a while ago? That Saskashvilli guy was poking them and they rolled right in. Then they pulled out. All the way out. Because it's an international law and Russia doesn't have the USA to veto any resolution.

And in your analogy the Israelis are the Germans in WWI?


East Prussia is part of Russia now. All the Germans, millions of them, were forcibly deported. That's what happens when you start wars you lose. We hold lots of islands that used to be Japanese territory; others have become independent nations since WWII. (Why we allowed them to get Iwo Jima back is beyond me.)
 
2012-07-10 06:55:22 PM

JohnAnnArbor: When you enter into two wars of extermination (1948, 1973) and plan another (1967, pre-empted) and lose all three times, it might be time to change your tactics from "kill all the Jews."


You'd think Israel would do the same. They haven't had a military victory since 1967 (and invading the Gazan Prison Camp with tanks is hardly an actual military action -- though they did kill 1400 Palestinians to their 5 casualties).

I mean, at least Israel isn't trying to occupy Lebanon anymore, since they got kicked out by a far inferior Hezbollah force TWICE, but she still has that crazy look in her eye.
 
2012-07-10 06:55:41 PM
The US is indirectly responsible Palestine's erosion. Without the US Israel would have had to make a real choice long ago on how they'd deal with the Arab states. So instead they soak up US taxpayer cash while they wage war on civilians and claiming it's Saudi Arania's fault.

But I wonder who will foot the bill for the tax-free casino reservations that Palestine will inevitably build.
 
2012-07-10 06:56:04 PM

zedster: They should just pull out all the crazy Settlers, keep All of Jerusalem and return the rest to Jordan. The Palestinians, Arab league and UN would have no idea wtf just happened.


You can't return it to a country that's already given it away.
 
2012-07-10 06:57:13 PM

zedster: They should just pull out all the crazy Settlers, keep All of Jerusalem and return the rest to Jordan. The Palestinians, Arab league and UN would have no idea wtf just happened.


Once they figured it out though, they'd start lobbing more rockets over the border.
Crazy is as crazy does.
 
2012-07-10 06:57:37 PM
If the WB is Israeli territory, as several people in this thread have stated, since 1973, are those of palestinian descent that are 38 years old or less citizens of Israel?
 
2012-07-10 06:59:24 PM
Israel only wants piece.
 
2012-07-10 07:00:19 PM

JohnAnnArbor: East Prussia is part of Russia now. All the Germans, millions of them, were forcibly deported. That's what happens when you start wars you lose. We hold lots of islands that used to be Japanese territory; others have become independent nations since WWII. (Why we allowed them to get Iwo Jima back is beyond me.)


I guess you're unaware of the fact that after WWII the Allies pretty much parcelled off much of the east (think Eastern Bloc) to the Russians so that Stalin wouldn't go all kill-crazy. The US, UK, and Soviets pretty much sat at a table and said "Okay, you get Kamchatka, but I need Ural so you don't have a whole continent".

And I'm unaware of East Prussia's historical relationship to Russia, so I can't say whether there was a valid historical reason (like "Hey, we were all Russian 100 years ago!").
 
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