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(Reuters)   The good news is that the Federal Reserve is on top of things enough that they knew the LIBOR rate was being manipulated all the way back in 2007. The bad news is that they didn't bother telling anybody else for 5 years   (in.reuters.com) divider line 61
    More: Strange, libor, Federal Reserve, Barclays plc, New York Fed, u.s. treasury secretary, subprime mortgage crisis, market participant, Bank of England  
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5815 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jul 2012 at 1:27 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-10 11:56:51 AM  
Where's the accountability, Obama.
 
2012-07-10 12:27:59 PM  

Generation_D: Where's the accountability, Obama.


The fact that he didn't deal with this personally back in 2007 shows what a weak president he was back then.

Everyone knows that Obama was a completely ineffectual do-nothing President in 2007 and 2008.

In fact, I would say that Obama's time in the oval office during 2007 and 2008 is why most God-fearing Republicans in this country won't consider voting for him.
 
2012-07-10 12:59:57 PM  

Generation_D: Where's the accountability, Obama.


Really. He's failed completely in his oversight of the UK banks and UK government regulators. He didn't even TRY to oversee them.

This is clearly an outrage.
 
2012-07-10 01:34:28 PM  
Headline: they didn't bother telling anybody else for 5 years
Article: they shared their findings promptly

Sub off, farkmitter.
 
2012-07-10 01:36:24 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Headline: they didn't bother telling anybody else for 5 years
Article: they shared their findings promptly

Sub off, farkmitter.


Yeah, I think subby must work for Barclays.
 
2012-07-10 01:38:46 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Headline: they didn't bother telling anybody else for 5 years
Article: they shared their findings promptly

Sub off, farkmitter.


it shared proposals for reform of the system with British authorities

Note it does not say "with American citizens". This country is kleptocracy and has been at least since March 2003. Grab all you can, if you're a big powerful institution. Stuff it in your pockets. Stuff it in your Swiss accounts. Grab it.

Grabbing is fun!
 
2012-07-10 01:38:54 PM  
The LIBOR rate, subby? Is that like an ATM machine or a PIN number?
 
2012-07-10 01:43:13 PM  

Kibbler: it shared proposals for reform of the system with British authorities


That's generally the correct thing to do when you're dealing with problems with British banks.
 
2012-07-10 01:43:25 PM  
Is it LIBOR or Libor? The article used both and I had to stop reading because it made my head hurt.
 
2012-07-10 01:44:49 PM  
A lot of funny post in this thread. :)
 
2012-07-10 01:45:07 PM  
DRTFA

Wtf is LIBOR?

Google tells me this scandal has something to do with fudged interest rates? Google also tells me that Some People were telling Other People about the fudge interest rates, before they were published, so that Other People and Some People could profit off the shady rates? Sorta like insider trading?

Could any Fark smart people clarify?

/so sorry, so fat, so stupid. :(
 
2012-07-10 01:45:45 PM  
[picks up Generation_D by a leg, slings him down 11 flights of concrete stairs, throws twenty thousand steel pet food dishes after him]

Why? Why are you such a dook?

Is my /sarc meter busted again?

(stomps off to yell at the JPL techs)
 
2012-07-10 01:45:48 PM  

Generation_D: Where's the accountability, Obama.


citysarah.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-07-10 01:53:58 PM  

Kittypie070: [picks up Generation_D by a leg, slings him down 11 flights of concrete stairs, throws twenty thousand steel pet food dishes after him]

Why? Why are you such a dook?

Is my /sarc meter busted again?

(stomps off to yell at the JPL techs)


I thought the first three post were meant to be funny. ?:)
 
2012-07-10 01:56:20 PM  
I think it was discussed with the SEC and the madoff file.

Looks like we need more laws because the ones they are already ignoring aren't working.
 
2012-07-10 01:56:27 PM  

vonapathy: DRTFA

Wtf is LIBOR?

Google tells me this scandal has something to do with fudged interest rates? Google also tells me that Some People were telling Other People about the fudge interest rates, before they were published, so that Other People and Some People could profit off the shady rates? Sorta like insider trading?

Could any Fark smart people clarify?

/so sorry, so fat, so stupid. :(


What is Libor and why should we care?
 
2012-07-10 01:57:46 PM  
i knew all this, i wasn't going to tell anybody
 
2012-07-10 02:00:28 PM  

Generation_D: Where's the accountability, Obama.


cdn.hotstockmarket.com
 
2012-07-10 02:01:55 PM  
Found it:

Fox News
October 2008

President Obama Answers Questions Questioningly

Washington D C: President Obama today answered a series of questions leaving this reporter questioning his answers.

When Reuters asked the President about the LIBOR rates, the President laughed heartily and said "They are fine. I checked them this morning and they were Hunky Dorey."

When pressed for addition comments, the President said everything was fine. He then hung a "Mission Accomplished" banner behind him. "I found this in the basement. I think it's appropriate."

When asked by this intrepid reporter if today was Opposite Day, the President said quite plainly: "No. Today is not Opposite Day. Thank you for asking though. That was a clear and very intelligent question. I'm glad I watch Fox News."
 
2012-07-10 02:02:19 PM  
You should also check this out: The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia

TLDR: Banks manipulated municipal bond bids (e.g. money for schools, parks, libraries, roads, etc.) and interest rates to steal billions of dollars from local/state governments.
 
2012-07-10 02:03:17 PM  
Guess what everyone? We've been trolled. At least, I have.

I checked his profile, and he has a lengthy list of known dumbasses on ignore.

Hats off to Generation_D for a masterful job.
 
2012-07-10 02:04:30 PM  
I thought it was well estabilished that the whole world of international high financed has been rigged for far longer than I've been alive. It's not a question of if the LIBOR or the Fed Funds rates are being manipulated, the question is who is pulling the strings. That's a dance that happens at levels far above my pay grade.
 
2012-07-10 02:08:25 PM  
I was listening to Market Place last night when they detailed how the LIBOR is set. It's a system that is just perfect for gaming.
 
2012-07-10 02:28:15 PM  

Fish in a Barrel: I was listening to Market Place last night when they detailed how the LIBOR is set. It's a system that is just perfect for gaming.


But centrally-planned economies are socialism. So which is it, huh? You gonna let the titans of industry continue making Xboxes and iPhones, or is Josef Stalin gonna return from the grave to assign you a wife and a beet ration while removing all crosses from the country and stomping on your neck?

JOSEF. STALIN.

Remember what's at stake. If the monied interests can't fark with us, not even a John Birch-fueled Reagan machine can save us from the Red Menace.
 
2012-07-10 02:29:31 PM  
And the Federal Reserve is... a prison?
 
2012-07-10 02:33:39 PM  
Just waiting for the foxes to put the hens back in the house.

Aren't you?
What?
No, they say they will and they are too big to fail/lie.
 
2012-07-10 02:34:31 PM  

CarnySaur: And the Federal Reserve is... a prison?


Should be the front door, but more of a seller of license to steal.
 
2012-07-10 02:36:14 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Fish in a Barrel: I was listening to Market Place last night when they detailed how the LIBOR is set. It's a system that is just perfect for gaming.

But centrally-planned economies are socialism. So which is it, huh? You gonna let the titans of industry continue making Xboxes and iPhones, or is Josef Stalin gonna return from the grave to assign you a wife and a beet ration while removing all crosses from the country and stomping on your neck?

JOSEF. STALIN.

Remember what's at stake. If the monied interests can't fark with us, not even a John Birch-fueled Reagan machine can save us from the Red Menace.


I feel you have overstated the impact of effective legislation, Mr. McCarthy.

///But, I don't wanna be a pirate.
 
2012-07-10 02:40:59 PM  
Were they able to prove it? This is not the sort of accusation one makes publicly without proof, particularly since it would likely have been dismissed as US butthurt over not controlling such an important aspect of the worldwide financial sector.
 
2012-07-10 02:43:53 PM  

Kibbler: poot_rootbeer: Headline: they didn't bother telling anybody else for 5 years
Article: they shared their findings promptly

Sub off, farkmitter.

it shared proposals for reform of the system with British authorities

Note it does not say "with American citizens". This country is kleptocracy and has been at least since March 2003. Grab all you can, if you're a big powerful institution. Stuff it in your pockets. Stuff it in your Swiss accounts. Grab it.

Grabbing is fun!


Grab yo stuff!

i.ytimg.com

/You gotta grab it
//Grab it
///Grab it
 
2012-07-10 02:45:56 PM  
Honestly, this is a pretty big scandel that does affect almost everyone. Too bad its too complex for people to understand how bad it really is. I guess that is why Wall Street just ignored the fact that it came out. The issue is already pretty much back under the rug, and Washington and world regulators alike got their pittance of a fine, and now the go ahead to continue is back in full play.
Oh well, I'm joining the rest of the world in burying my head at this point. It seems as good an option as any.
 
2012-07-10 02:50:40 PM  

Scipio: Honestly, this is a pretty big scandel that does affect almost everyone. Too bad its too complex for people to understand how bad it really is. I guess that is why Wall Street just ignored the fact that it came out. The issue is already pretty much back under the rug, and Washington and world regulators alike got their pittance of a fine, and now the go ahead to continue is back in full play.
Oh well, I'm joining the rest of the world in burying my head at this point. It seems as good an option as any.


Strangely, it seems this may have actually been helping most people for once. According to the story I heard on NPR, the banks were pushing the LIBOR down during most of the crisis to make themselves appear healthier than they really were. That effectively lowered interest rates on things like mortgages.
 
2012-07-10 02:54:09 PM  

vonapathy: DRTFA

Wtf is LIBOR?

Google tells me this scandal has something to do with fudged interest rates? Google also tells me that Some People were telling Other People about the fudge interest rates, before they were published, so that Other People and Some People could profit off the shady rates? Sorta like insider trading?

Could any Fark smart people clarify?

/so sorry, so fat, so stupid. :(


LIBOR= London Interbank Offer Rate

=the Rate at which banks offer to lend each other money
=a benchmark for determining all manner of other interest rates (my student loans for example use "The libor +x%" as thier formula for what my interest rate it)

Traders at several large banking houses particularly Barkley's deliberately maipulated this rate up and down to make their own trading positions look better of be more profitable using the extremely sophisticated method of E-mailing their buddies who were in charge of reporting this rate and asking them to tweak it based on their current needs.

Good for these traders, played merry hell with everyone else because the rate was so unpredictable based on this manipulation.
 
2012-07-10 03:04:26 PM  

vodka: Is it LIBOR or Libor? The article used both and I had to stop reading because it made my head hurt.


Yeah I'm getting tired of that shiat also. Note that anything to do with Britain may spell acronyms like "Un" instead of "UN" and "Who" for "WHO" and other such crap. I hate to tell them what to do with their own language but I think we can safely call "Uk" a bad spelling.
 
2012-07-10 03:04:58 PM  

CarnySaur: And the Federal Reserve is... a prison?


I believe it's some type of jam.
 
2012-07-10 03:08:16 PM  
""Now Marge, just remember, if something goes wrong with the US banking industry, blame the English. Ah, LIBOR, how many times have you saved my butt?"
 
2012-07-10 03:09:55 PM  

Arkanaut: CarnySaur: And the Federal Reserve is... a prison?

I believe it's some type of jam.


pdxretro.com

RIP Mr. Smucker
 
2012-07-10 03:14:17 PM  
LIBOR rates still managed to track awfully close to Fed Funds rates before the credit crisis, so it really was not a huge issue.

in 2008-2009 the rates diverged completely from market realities, that's where the primary focus of investigation is right now
 
2012-07-10 03:30:26 PM  
Please wake me up when the first financier gets the death penalty for the economic teason and fraud that has been perpetrated on people of earth, til then let me sleep in this nightmare reality of phony freedom.
 
2012-07-10 03:31:07 PM  
fwiw....

Link

/dunno
//if it was physics we would ask Sheldon
 
2012-07-10 03:39:28 PM  

Fish in a Barrel: Scipio: Honestly, this is a pretty big scandel that does affect almost everyone. Too bad its too complex for people to understand how bad it really is. I guess that is why Wall Street just ignored the fact that it came out. The issue is already pretty much back under the rug, and Washington and world regulators alike got their pittance of a fine, and now the go ahead to continue is back in full play.
Oh well, I'm joining the rest of the world in burying my head at this point. It seems as good an option as any.

Strangely, it seems this may have actually been helping most people for once. According to the story I heard on NPR, the banks were pushing the LIBOR down during most of the crisis to make themselves appear healthier than they really were. That effectively lowered interest rates on things like mortgages.


Actually, it depends on your luck. They were raising it and lowering as it was necessary. If you happen to read some of the e-mails it's obvious that the rates went in both directions. While some people might have benefitted from the rate moves lower, just as many were harmed from it going up. While that may seem to be a net neutral, the fact that the manipulation occurred outside of natural market forces means that those who were harmed were harmed by the manipulator. Those who got a low rate were just lucky. The people likely who were harmed the most were those who actually tried to predict the rate as the rate would move irrationally to that person.
The area where people would be most harmed would be credit cards, as every manipulation upwards would affect them if they carried a balance for a significant period. If you notice the rates were overall rising, so while a consumer would be dinged on any spike up, the banks likely pocketed all the spikes down as the libor rate is the base they set their price.
Think of it as gasoline at the gas station. The guy who owns the gas station is going to mark down the gas b/c it drops for a brief buy in period, but instead he knows it will bounce right back up so he charges you the same rate. However, he will spike the price he charges you if gas spikes upwards, even if he knows the gas price will fall right back down. Hence, the majority of consumers would be net victims of this policy.
 
2012-07-10 03:46:11 PM  
Scipio.... I believe that to be an insightful and well written reply. (the credit card thing brings it close to home for many).


....now could you drop down like about another 20,000 feet and make another pass ?
 
2012-07-10 03:50:51 PM  
First, allow me to point out that I don't give a hoot either way about Obama.

That said, it seems to me that a whole shiat-load of these conditions and problems were set into motion not only by the previous President but by the current congress.

If you look back over about the last decade or so, you can see a vast laundry list of money making schemes and conspiracies starting up. Ranging from needlessly grabbing up a major portion of the valuable corn crop for Ethanol fuel (when we now know that almost ANY form of vegetation can be used) which increased the cost of food to the ridiculous housing boom that virtually forced people to buy as rent prices skyrocketed.

Check the credit card interest rate hikes. The banks starting to charge for everything except walking in the door. Soaring meat prices that don't have any good explanation and the massive price increase in diesel fuel -- which happens to be the CHEAPEST fuel produced from crude oil, but the MOST used for interstate transport of goods and services.

Maybe you noticed how fast cheap fuel made from used cooking oil went from a backyard business to major companies squabbling to buy the stuff that restaurants used to have to PAY to get it taken away.

Major recycling was supposed to lower costs. I haven't seen it, though I have watched small recycling plants suddenly grow to huge size, some stocking ingots of aluminum on their grounds that weight several tons each.

Of course, I did note that products containing a percentage of recycled goods suddenly jumped in price as recycling became 'The Thing To Do' in society.

Actually, I don't think I've ever seen such a mad scramble to make major bucks, any way possible at nearly any cost with so little regulation EVER.

However, it does warm my heart to know that the American Banking System isn't the only greedy and corrupt system in the world.

Funny, isn't it, that things seemed so honorable and proper BEFORE the Saudi's got pi$$ed and had OPEC jack up oil prices and everything just fell apart after.

Of course, US banks promptly invested heavily in spiraling oil prices until it would be against their best interests if the rates dropped. But, then, so did nearly every other global bank until it reached the point that oil prices dropping could cause a major global melt down.

So, screwing with the interest rates is basically to be expected and, actually, nothing new.

Wake me when you find someone or some group with enough balls and power to do something about it.

Currently, the average citizen can only sit and biatch, powerless.
 
2012-07-10 03:58:30 PM  

IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: Grab yo stuff!

/You gotta grab it
//Grab it
///Grab it


I'm down with artistic integrity and all that, but lockup's a biatch.

This is what we gonna do.
We gonna change...

We'll change the "shiat" and "dick"
to "Cover up and grab your stuff."

-All right?
-Word.

-But just for tonight.
-Just for tonight.

-Tomorrow we back to "shiat" and "dick."
-Hey, tomorrow we in St. Louis...

-so you know what that's all about.
-They like the shiats and dick.
 
2012-07-10 04:06:18 PM  
Sould I post a picture of a guillotine in this thread?

I'm not 100% sure yet.
 
2012-07-10 04:09:23 PM  

Rik01: *Depressing Commentary*

Check the credit card interest rate hikes.

*Depressing Commentary*


Of course, all of your commentary just serves to highlight how much the little man is getting screwed on all accounts, but the CC interest rate hikes really resonate with me. My oldest card (~18 yrs) jacked my rate from ~7% to 18% overnight, despite a high FICO score, never making a late payment and cycling six figures through that bastard over the years. Their reasoning? "The credit crisis means we have to raise your rates." No, you greedy bastards, the Fed Funds rate is at zero (or close to it) meaning you can get money for nothing (and chicks for free). No, what really happened was that you made bad bets in a variety of areas and, when the chickens came home to roost, you decided to fark over your GOOD customers by jacking their rates because they had the ability to pay those rates. It wasn't enough that I had to subsidize your greediness with my tax dollars...

/For the record, I try and maintain a zero balance from month to month
//And have dropped that card usage to ~$50/YEAR
///It's the principle of the thing
 
2012-07-10 04:38:54 PM  

netcentric: Scipio.... I believe that to be an insightful and well written reply. (the credit card thing brings it close to home for many).


....now could you drop down like about another 20,000 feet and make another pass ?


Sure, I can give it a go...
Okay, comparing it to gasoline sales.. The LIBOR rate is basically the base rate a bank lends at with little to no profit. Banks typically lend at LIBOR +1 or so. So this is like the gas received at the gas station they sell it plus their mark up.
Now the banks were being buddy-buddy and causing their friends to help lower or raise the rate they received it at. So this would be like the gas stations owners all fixing the price they buy the gas in bulk. [Technicalities are different, but for purpose of effect, not so different]
Now, when the banks lower the rate it causes a sharp spike they can use (like a gas station buying gasoline at a sharp reduced price) in a climate of rising rates (like rising gas prices). The banks typically, like gas stations, don't pass the savings from these one time drops but keep the profits. They already knew the rate would go right back to normal (the rate was climbing). Now, they would also raise the rate, which they would pass onto the consumer. So the consumer would be hurt by the spike hikes, but not benefit from the spike falls. Just like gas stations in a climate don't lower prices every time the market price drops, but holds for a while to see the long term projection.
So in other words, the consumers weren't necessarily the target of the manipulation, but instead were collateral damage. The banks just invested into the rate and manipulated as suited them. That's about the best I can do on how it affects the average person.
 
2012-07-10 04:41:45 PM  
Um... I'm no RON PAUL guy, but it's starting to look like that whole decentralization of banking is a good idea.

I think history shows that gathering power into the hands of an elite few never turns out good for the masses. Which makes you wonder who thought it was a good idea in the first place.
 
2012-07-10 05:43:03 PM  

mdeesnuts: Um... I'm no RON PAUL guy, but it's starting to look like that whole decentralization of banking is a good idea.

I think history shows that gathering power into the hands of an elite few never turns out good for the masses. Which makes you wonder who thought it was a good idea in the first place.


What you're talking about isn't so much decentralization as it is trust busting, which would hurt in the short term, but in the long term would be better for the country.
 
2012-07-10 06:56:32 PM  
And we haven't thrown these farkers from wall street windows yet, why?
 
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