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(The Day)   Amtrak outlines $151 Billion plan for new tracks and high speed rail in the Northeast Corridor. This sounds like a lot until you realize it's only about $200,000 per passenger annually   (theday.com) divider line 350
    More: Asinine, Northeast Corridor, Amtrak, Connecticut River, Thames River, groton  
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6287 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jul 2012 at 12:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-10 10:38:57 AM
How many of those 2,100 travel every weekday? Would just getting each of them a personal helicopter be much cheaper?
 
2012-07-10 10:42:28 AM
People who do not understand cost-benefit analysis should refrain from being outraged until the big words are explained to them by those who do, subby.
 
2012-07-10 10:43:45 AM
Yeah, because capital investment on infrastructure improvements is stupid. What's infrastructure ever done for us anyway?
 
2012-07-10 10:50:40 AM
Ah yes, because nobody will ever choose to use the new system, and infrastructure is totally free.
 
2012-07-10 10:53:52 AM

DON.MAC: How many of those 2,100 travel every weekday


That would be 2100 TRAINS, not people.

It would be amazing to have high speed rail here. It's a high density area with traffic problems and a population progressive enough to support improving our infrastructure.
 
2012-07-10 10:54:32 AM
The last federal highway bill was around $368 billion. This sounds like a bargain to me.
 
2012-07-10 10:57:54 AM
They are talking 2,100 passengers per day for 151 Billion dollars.
$200,000 per passenger if 2100 different people show up every day. If 1,500 of the same people show up M-F every week, then its 4200 unique passengers a week for a total of $686,675 per passenger over a year. Over half a century thats still $13.7k per passenger per year. That isn't infrastructure improvements, that is pure waste.
 
2012-07-10 10:58:59 AM
About 2,100 passenger and 50 freight trains travel through the Northeast Corridor daily.

2100 TRAINS. What is wrong with you can you not read
 
2012-07-10 10:59:57 AM

sweetmelissa31: That would be 2100 TRAINS, not people.


Well that changes things by a factor of about 2100 doesn't it.

/should learn to read but illiteracy has its advantages
 
2012-07-10 11:02:00 AM
Damn, it'd be cool if they ran the trains for more than a year. But I guess that's the deal, 365 days of cool trains, then they raze the whole thing.
 
2012-07-10 11:02:44 AM

sweetmelissa31: It would be amazing to have high speed rail here.


Regionally, high speed rail makes sense and it can be a great alternative to cars and planes. I get so pissed that my colleagues in Philadelphia get to just jump on the train to go to morning meetings in Harrisburg, but I have to wake up at an ungodly hour, get in the car, and slog my way on the PA Turnpike to make it to the same meeting.

/Rant off
 
2012-07-10 11:08:14 AM
Its still $30,000 per passenger in the 1st year with 2100 trains of 3,000 passengers. Still not an impressive ROI unless its for far more than 30 years.

Still don't know why Amtrack from DC -> St Louis hits up both Chicago and New Orleans, cost more than a plane ticket, takes days and goes with in viewing distance of the arch 3 times.

Around here they are running trams that hold up hundreds of cars to carry 6 passengers per trip and want to rip out all the stops and make it worse for everyone for the cost of about $300,000 per passenger. That level of fail is not unprecedented.
 
2012-07-10 11:08:35 AM
Yes, I agree that it is incredibly wasteful for every Amtrak passenger to have his or her own train!

Subby is either willfully stupid or functionally retarded.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2012-07-10 11:11:37 AM

DON.MAC: sweetmelissa31: That would be 2100 TRAINS, not people.

Well that changes things by a factor of about 2100 doesn't it.

/should learn to read but illiteracy has its advantages


Which means if we were to use your math, would be less than $7 per person.

/We ain't using your math
//changes by factor of number of people per train, not number of trains
///don't even want to know where your 4200 came from
 
2012-07-10 11:14:11 AM
A needed investment on infrastructure.
/takes the line

The Amtrak Hackensack River railroad bridge in Jersey needs replacing too.

/Built in 1911, and when this old lady goes down, so goes the Northeast Corridor.
 
2012-07-10 11:16:54 AM

jbc: Which means if we were to use your math, would be less than $7 per person.


Another figured (from a comment in the Mother Jones thing) would put it about about $5300 per passenger with a one year payoff. Over a decade that isn't bad but that assumes most of their passengers are in the area where the 151 billion upgrade takes place and you collect a fair part of it back per year. Remember there will be another request like this in just a few years.

/shouldn't have used subbys math
 
2012-07-10 11:18:58 AM

DON.MAC: They are talking 2,100 passengers per day for 151 Billion dollars.


oh lord, I ain't even mad. that's just embarrassing

i mean for you
 
2012-07-10 11:19:18 AM

DON.MAC: Still don't know why Amtrack from DC -> St Louis hits up both Chicago and New Orleans, cost more than a plane ticket, takes days...


Well, (1) Amtrak says that the Texas Eagle goes from San Antonio through St. Louis to Chicago... so if you end up in NO, I think you're taking the wrong train.

(2) The reason it take 27 hours is because (a) there are no high speed lines that go from St. Louis to Chicago or Chicago to DC or anywhere outside of the NE corridor and (b) there are f*cking mountains in the way between the East Coast and the Mid West.
 
2012-07-10 11:19:59 AM
www.lardlad.com
 
2012-07-10 11:20:52 AM
if there is one place in the country where high speed rail both makes sense and will be used a lot, it's here.
 
2012-07-10 11:23:48 AM
Ah, a hi-speed rail tread.

What always impresses me about these are all the people complaining about the huge expense of infrastructure and too bad we can't do it like Europe... well guess what, a few years ago it cost 1.6 billion EURO to build the hi-speed rail network in the Netherlands and connect us to Brussels and Paris.

The difference between the US and Europe really is here people understood the value of getting to Paris in 3.5 hours and built the damn thing, in the US it would never get off the ground.
 
2012-07-10 11:35:39 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: 2) The reason it take 27 hours is because (a) there are no high speed lines that go from St. Louis to Chicago or Chicago to DC or anywhere outside of the NE corridor and (b) there are f*cking mountains in the way between the East Coast and the Mid West.


Its 7 hours from KC to Chicago. Its 17 from Chicago to DC. I wonder if that is via New Orleans. I don't remember if I was heading to KC or St Louis but the last time I looked at the Amtrack schedule, I understood why it was rarely used in the midwest.

One of the nice things they do here is have high speed express trains from the outer suburbs into the city bypassing most stations. Then they extended the electric lines and it turns a 20 minute trip into an hour and a half and they wonder why people closer in complain they can't get seats. When they add a new train, its just as full as other peak services within a week.
 
2012-07-10 11:36:26 AM

DON.MAC: /should learn to read but illiteracy has its advantages


This should be the motto of today's GOP.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2012-07-10 11:40:01 AM

DON.MAC: jbc: Which means if we were to use your math, would be less than $7 per person.

Another figured (from a comment in the Mother Jones thing) would put it about about $5300 per passenger with a one year payoff. Over a decade that isn't bad but that assumes most of their passengers are in the area where the 151 billion upgrade takes place and you collect a fair part of it back per year. Remember there will be another request like this in just a few years.

/shouldn't have used subbys math


Amtrak says this corridor serves 750K passengers per day. That's 157.5M per year on weekdays alone. That's less than $1K per passenger for one year, or less than $40 over 25 if you completely ignore weekend riders and freight trains.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-07-10 11:41:31 AM
Even if Subby had read it properly, he still doesn't grasp that increasing capacity and service quality night raise passenger and freight traffic.
 
2012-07-10 11:49:35 AM

DON.MAC: Its 17 from Chicago to DC. I wonder if that is via New Orleans.


Nope. That's the Capital Limited, which runs through Pittsburgh. I can't speak for the Chicago to Pittsburgh leg, but the train barely breaks 25 mph through the Appalachians to DC. There just aren't that many routes through the mountains to the East Coast.
 
2012-07-10 12:01:20 PM
Good job on the math, guys. It seems to assume that there will be no growth in usage and that everyone will ride for free.
 
2012-07-10 12:16:21 PM

DON.MAC: /should learn to read but illiteracy has its advantages


Needing to have your hand held for simple matters is an advantage?
 
2012-07-10 12:36:02 PM
If you are for the spending, you are a left wing commie who deserves to be shot. If you are against the funding, you are a right wing bigot who wants to make the rich man richer and the poor man poorer.

Partisan politics on something like this is bullshiat. fark all of you
 
2012-07-10 12:47:22 PM

DON.MAC: How many of those 2,100 travel every weekday? Would just getting each of them a personal helicopter be much cheaper?


Don't be ridiculous. Expanding I-95 is free!
 
2012-07-10 12:48:56 PM
ERMAHGERD INFURSTURTUR ERNFESTMURNT IS SOSHULISMS.

much better spent would be to give the money this would cost into the hands of the rich in the form of tax breaks so they can create jobs. clearly.
 
2012-07-10 12:49:13 PM
Meanwhile, China is projected to have connected Asia with high speed rail all the way from Beijing to Singapore in 20 years.

And we biatch about cost.
 
2012-07-10 12:50:18 PM
Subby,
You dumbass.....it's more like 14.573 hectors, 57.8 cubits or even a half a parasang.
Jebus do I have to spell it out for you?!?!?!?
 
2012-07-10 12:51:18 PM
I just cannot see how anyone can justify giving any money to Amtrak.
 
2012-07-10 12:51:53 PM
That's almost as bad as this 'Interstate Highway' system they keep talking about.
 
2012-07-10 12:51:54 PM
As someone who spent about 20 hours on various European trains last week, I'm getting a kick out of this article.

Also, the secret is to spend the entire trip in the dining car.
 
2012-07-10 12:52:13 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Yeah, because capital investment on infrastructure improvements is stupid. What's infrastructure ever done for us anyway?


What have the Romans ever done for us ?!?
 
2012-07-10 12:54:23 PM
Amazing how expensive a per-person cost analysis is when you do it on a company that mostly moves FREIGHT.

Morons can't tell the difference between shipping and a people transportation.
 
2012-07-10 12:54:37 PM
So, this is one of those areas where the government should privatize. The fed should set standards for track width and switching technology, provide land grants to companies that want to compete to build and operate this thing, and then get out of the way.

/ Hippie market liberal.
 
2012-07-10 12:54:43 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Yeah, because capital investment on infrastructure improvements is stupid. What's infrastructure ever done for us anyway?


A bridge to nowhere for everyone! That will save us all!
 
2012-07-10 12:55:40 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Meanwhile, China is projected to have connected Asia with high speed rail all the way from Beijing to Singapore in 20 years.

And we biatch about cost.


A friend of mine that happens to be running for US House in Hawai'i linked an article on Facebook on this topic "Why does Obama want to make us like communist China?"

Because trains are what make China communist, not the brutal repression of media and individual rights, with massive government land-and-property grabs with no citizen recourse. It's the trains. I didn't bother commenting on that troll bait.
 
2012-07-10 12:56:00 PM
Most of the major infrastructure on the Northeast Corridor is 80-100 years old, it needs to be replaced, and since it needs to be replaced you might as well upgrade it for high speed travel. To think of of it in car terms, you would be trading in a Model T on a brand new Camry. It is time to spend that money.
 
2012-07-10 12:56:55 PM
Given what a nightmare flying or driving anywhere near the NYC metro area is, this honestly seems like a decent idea - especially once you correct submittard's math.

Also, BigNumber12 is absolutely right about the dining car thing.
 
2012-07-10 12:57:41 PM

BigNumber12: Also, the secret is to spend the entire trip in the dining car.


That's where the bar is, right? I'm told that on Amtrak you can bring your own booze. I don't know if that is true or not; I've only taken one train in the US and that was in '97. I've taken far more trains in Japan than I have in the US and I was only there for three weeks!
 
2012-07-10 12:57:54 PM
Subby, if you don't want highspeed rail, I can think of places where I'd like it
 
2012-07-10 12:58:09 PM

DON.MAC: They are talking 2,100 passengers per day for 151 Billion dollars.
$200,000 per passenger if 2100 different people show up every day. If 1,500 of the same people show up M-F every week, then its 4200 unique passengers a week for a total of $686,675 per passenger over a year. Over half a century thats still $13.7k per passenger per year. That isn't infrastructure improvements, that is pure waste.


http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayo u t&cid=1246041980246

Amtrak's Northeast Corridor (NEC) is the busiest railroad in North America, with more than 2,200 trains operating over some portion of the Washington-Boston route each day.
Thats 2,100 passenger TRAINS, and 50 Freight TRAINS. Not 2,100 passengers.
 
2012-07-10 12:58:19 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Meanwhile, China is projected to have connected Asia with high speed rail all the way from Beijing to Singapore in 20 years.

And we biatch about cost.


Yeah but who wants to spend 20 years on a train?
 
2012-07-10 12:58:41 PM
I think a lot of people are also neglecting the revenue from freight items on the train in their calculations.
 
2012-07-10 12:58:46 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: DON.MAC: /should learn to read but illiteracy has its advantages

Needing to have your hand held for simple matters is an advantage?


Isn't that the idea behind most government programs :P
 
2012-07-10 12:58:54 PM

DON.MAC: They are talking 2,100 passengers per day for 151 Billion dollars.
$200,000 per passenger if 2100 different people show up every day. If 1,500 of the same people show up M-F every week, then its 4200 unique passengers a week for a total of $686,675 per passenger over a year. Over half a century thats still $13.7k per passenger per year. That isn't infrastructure improvements, that is pure waste.


I'm guessing that's much less than the annual federal income tax payments of many of the people who need to commute on that route 5 days a week, nevermind the gains made in their being able to get there faster.
 
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