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(The Daily Beast)   In case you're confused about the terminology, here's the deal: When taxes are raised for rich people, it's "class warfare". When taxes are cut for rich people, it's "free market". Savvy?   (thedailybeast.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, romney, Cory Booker, Tax Policy Center, PolitiFact  
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1191 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Jul 2012 at 11:04 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-07-10 11:08:48 AM  
4 votes:
Addendum: when corporations get subsidies, it's called "encouraging innovation". When poor people get subsidies, we're "perpetuating a culture of dependency".
2012-07-10 11:52:18 AM  
3 votes:
I don't mind the idea of extending tax cuts to "job creators" as long as the cuts are tied to actual job creation in the previous fiscal year. If you create X number of jobs and those jobs meet certain pay and benefit criteria, fine. You get to say you're a job creator and you get a tax cut extension. Otherwise stfu and pay your taxes.
2012-07-10 11:24:28 AM  
3 votes:

trotsky: And just to add: let's be truthful. There was a large number of lefties during the Bush years doing this, but after 2010 it's overtaken the right's dialogue almost entirely.


Even then, there's a pretty large gulf of difference between saying "$HRUB SHOULD BE IMPEACHED FOR TAKING US TO WAR ON LIES" and "NOBAMAO SHOULD BE IMPEACHED FOR TRYING TO HEAL SICK POOR PEOPLE AND FURTHERMORE TAXATION IS SLAVERY".

At least the anti-Bush people disliked actual things Bush did.
2012-07-10 11:07:26 AM  
2 votes:
The joke is that Romney is embracing Bush policies and Bush officials.

... It is a joke, right? People will actually notice and decide NOT to vote for the guy that wants to continue the economic destruction of the country?

Oh God... some people are too stupid to notice.
2012-07-10 11:06:06 AM  
2 votes:
Here's the ideal Republican tax plan:

1) Every living person, no matter their age or health, is charged $30,000 on April 15 and required to pay in full.
2) Individuals who pay have no further obligation.
3) Individuals who do not pay are arrested and thrown in a gulag to work off their debt for the year.
2012-07-10 12:07:03 PM  
1 vote:
I'm honestly open to the concept that overly progressive policies serve to punish success and that on some level you want to incentivize sucess/capitalization as it does serve the public to expand the economy. The problem is that we've been changing policies to move away from the level of the New Deal-Nixon era for more than 30 years and the argument is still being made as if the system is unduly burdensome on the wealthy.

We have pursued policies of decreasing direct aid programs through more significant requirements to enroll/slowed benefit growth in favor of tax credits we said would empower the individual to make the economic decisions necessary to lift themselves out of the cycle of poverty, and are now told that these people don't have skin in the game and need to be paying taxes.

We have eliminated the highest level tax brackets and significantly flattened the difference in the rates between the remaining brackets all while adding more and more deductions that the tax code was last reformed to remove the distorting effects of, and now the answer is apparently a flat tax rate that allows for plenty of the most popular deductions to remain in place.

We have lowered the capital gains tax rate to less than half of what they would be taxed at if money made through investing money was treated like money made by investing personal time and effort, and we are told that making someone pay taxes on profits is double taxation and should be outlawed.

We have gutted any real independent authority regulatory agencies have at overseeing all areas except food and drugs, and we are told that the failure of companies to expand with their record profits rather than to pay out bonuses to management and shareholders is because the Department of Labor and the EPA make it impossible to do business in this country when self-regulation would lead to growth and better performance by the private sector in the areas the regulators seek to improve.

TLDR Version: Yes, it is a good idea for a system to avoid elements that make success less profitable. However, the system we have in place right now already gives advantages to the wealthy to mitigate the progressiveness of the tax code which has been made less progressive over the same period. We have a system that rewards success more than any other point since before the New Deal, and a 3% increase of taxes on income made in excess of $250,000 is not going to cause people to stop working to a significant degree; the substitution effect is far outweighed by the income effect for the vast majority of people.
2012-07-10 12:06:46 PM  
1 vote:

jihad_cowboy: Pretty much. Under Obama's plan, every keeps the Bush tax cuts on the first $250,000 that they earn. After that, the marginal rate (all earnings above $250k) are taxes at 38% instead of 34% iirc.

So yeah, everyone gets a tax cut. Across the board. Almost in a flat manner you might say.


To put in in perspective, this means that someone earning $300,000k per year would pay an additional $2,000 per year in taxes, or $166 per month. This is what the GOP is flipping out about, someone earning $300,000 a year paying an additional $166 a month in taxes.
2012-07-10 11:59:35 AM  
1 vote:

The Homer Tax: MyRandomName: Hey subtard, only one group is asking for raised taxes on a group they are not part if.

Isn't this not how our tax system works? People aren't taxed, money is. Everyone pays the same amount of taxes on the same amount of money.


Pretty much. Under Obama's plan, every keeps the Bush tax cuts on the first $250,000 that they earn. After that, the marginal rate (all earnings above $250k) are taxes at 38% instead of 34% iirc.

So yeah, everyone gets a tax cut. Across the board. Almost in a flat manner you might say.
2012-07-10 11:59:03 AM  
1 vote:
Taxes are the price we pay for civilization." Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

Progressive taxes recognize several facts, among the most important is this: there is a minimum income required to live outside poverty. The people who live at that line can't afford to make contributions to the country when they can barely keep food on the table or a roof over their head. The wealthy are a different matter. 85% of all wealth in this nation is held by the top 20%. 38% is held by the top 1%. By contrast, the lowest 40% of the US hold 0.3% of all the wealth in the US.

So, just because the poorest can't pay, that doesn't mean the richest shouldn't pay. For most of our nation's history, the top tax rate has been much higher. Since '82, those with the most have been asked to contribute less and less, and the poor -literally- can't pick up the slack.

People don't like progressive taxes, but if we want to live in a civilization - and have a realistic chance of paying for it - it's the only plan that works.
2012-07-10 11:55:19 AM  
1 vote:

trotsky: Serious Black: sprawl15: trotsky: And just to add: let's be truthful. There was a large number of lefties during the Bush years doing this, but after 2010 it's overtaken the right's dialogue almost entirely.

Even then, there's a pretty large gulf of difference between saying "$HRUB SHOULD BE IMPEACHED FOR TAKING US TO WAR ON LIES" and "NOBAMAO SHOULD BE IMPEACHED FOR TRYING TO HEAL SICK POOR PEOPLE AND FURTHERMORE TAXATION IS SLAVERY".

At least the anti-Bush people disliked actual things Bush did.

And I don't think that any anti-Bush people actually thought that he wasn't a Christian, wasn't eligible to be president, or any of the many other "other" claims Republicans consistently spew about Obama.

That's also a big difference. It seems the infantile morons on the right can't really come up with anything beyond stupid bullshiat. There's plenty to criticize Obama on but the crap I hear spewed from the mouth-breathers always seems to concentrate on generalities, not specific policy issues. And they always seem to be grossly mis-informed as well. The other day I saw some stupid thing on Facebook asking "liberals" about the ACA and its exemption of Congress. I posted the 1/1/2014 policy that will force Congress to purchase insurance through the exchanges like the rest of us. Even gave a cite and a link to the potion of the bill.

I received a three paragraph rant on how my kids are going to pay for the ACA instead.

You just cannot win with these people.


That's because they don't give a rat's ass what he proposes. All they need to know is whether Obama's for it or against it. Then they just take the opposite position. Evidence? Six Republican co-sponsors voted against a bill they had championed whose sole goal was to reduce the federal deficit (which the GOP has told me repeatedly is exceedingly important) by $4 trillion over ten years because Obama publicly endorsed the bill a week before the bill came up for a vote.
2012-07-10 11:50:06 AM  
1 vote:

Sock Ruh Tease: The joke is that Romney is embracing Bush policies and Bush officials.

... It is a joke, right? People will actually notice and decide NOT to vote for the guy that wants to continue the economic destruction of the country?

Oh God... some people are too stupid to notice.


They elected Bush... Twice. The fact that people are stupid should be clear as a bell by now.
2012-07-10 11:29:25 AM  
1 vote:

sprawl15: trotsky: And just to add: let's be truthful. There was a large number of lefties during the Bush years doing this, but after 2010 it's overtaken the right's dialogue almost entirely.

Even then, there's a pretty large gulf of difference between saying "$HRUB SHOULD BE IMPEACHED FOR TAKING US TO WAR ON LIES" and "NOBAMAO SHOULD BE IMPEACHED FOR TRYING TO HEAL SICK POOR PEOPLE AND FURTHERMORE TAXATION IS SLAVERY".

At least the anti-Bush people disliked actual things Bush did.


And I don't think that any anti-Bush people actually thought that he wasn't a Christian, wasn't eligible to be president, or any of the many other "other" claims Republicans consistently spew about Obama.
2012-07-10 11:27:44 AM  
1 vote:

NateGrey: Fox News went ballistic last night about class warfare.

They say it doesnt affect 98% of people, but we will all suffer.

O Reilly did make a good point though, said it would only raise 85 Billion, or 8.5 days of government spending.


Ah yes. the standard 'it doesn't fix everything right away so we shouldn't do it at all' talking point. Here's one for them: all of our massive military spending didn't prevent 9/11, so why do we need to spend anything at all?
2012-07-10 11:18:12 AM  
1 vote:

Sock Ruh Tease: The joke is that Romney is embracing Bush policies and Bush officials.

... It is a joke, right? People will actually notice and decide NOT to vote for the guy that wants to continue the economic destruction of the country?

Oh God... some people are too stupid to notice.


When you have an entire subset of the population who insist on spelling the President's name wrong so that they sound like a group of ignorant school children and refuse to listen to things like "read the actual bill" or cannot and will not actually critically think things through, then yes, you encounter exactly what we're going through now.

And just to add: let's be truthful. There was a large number of lefties during the Bush years doing this, but after 2010 it's overtaken the right's dialogue almost entirely. My facebook feed to clogged up with infantile morons spelling Obama's name "Obumer" or "0bama". I've never seen this kiddie shiat on such a scale.

And that's why Romney has people voting for him.
2012-07-10 11:15:34 AM  
1 vote:
When a Republican signs a pledge to not raise taxes, it's called "standing on principle". When those same Republicans call for raising taxes on the poorest Americans, it's called "standing on principle".

When a Republican calls for making gay marriage illegal, that's called "protecting freedom". When that same Republican calls for getting the government out of peoples' lives, that's called "protecting freedom".

GOP: We use singlethink, because doublethink is too hard.
2012-07-10 11:11:14 AM  
1 vote:

Sock Ruh Tease: The joke is that Romney is embracing Bush policies and Bush officials.

... It is a joke, right? People will actually notice and decide NOT to vote for the guy that wants to continue the economic destruction of the country?

Oh God... some people are too stupid to notice.


It's not that they don't notice, it's that they Hate President Obama that much.
They Hate him with every fiber of their being.
They Hate him with a capital H.
And they HATE the fact that they lost to a n****r.
2012-07-10 11:07:24 AM  
1 vote:
Yep, If you are middle class and try to limit your tax burden you are committing class warfare if you are super rich you are a good businessman.
 
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