FARK.com: (7204489) Wells Fargo has a heart of gold for Stage 4 breast cancer patient. Just kidding, they want full payments or they're going to foreclose on her

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		Wells Fargo has a heart of gold for Stage 4 breast cancer patient. Just kidding, they want full payments or they're going to foreclose on her (nydailynews.com)		239
		More: Asinine, Wells Fargo, breast cancer patients, breast cancer, payments

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serial_crusher		2012-07-09 06:19:04 PM

Yes, even people with cancer have to pay their bills. What a world we live in.

Really, I feel bad for them. If they were people I knew personally and didn't act all entitled, I'd be giving them money to help out.

mitchcumstein1		2012-07-09 06:26:38 PM

serial_crusher: Yes, even people with cancer have to pay their bills. What a world we live in.

Really, I feel bad for them. If they were people I knew personally and didn't act all entitled, I'd be giving them money to help out.

It's almost like we should do something about the cost of health care in this country. $1,000 for the medication to try and stay alive is farking criminal in my opinion.

This woman is going to die. It's going to be painful and horrible. There's good business, and there's good common sense. Wells Fargo should probably use the common sense on this one.

gilgigamesh		2012-07-09 06:38:19 PM

I want to feel bad for these people. OK, well I do, but I want to feel like there's a bad guy here, and that the bank is that bad guy, but then there's this quote:

"They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal. If they are trying to negotiate it down to half that, she is effectively asking Wells Fargo not only to take a loss on the interest payments, she's asking them the principal as well. Even if WF is willing to work with them, there's just no freaking way that can happen. Banks are not in business to subsidize your home purchase.

Much as I hate to say it, these folks need to just cut their losses and move into a section 8 rental.

gilgigamesh		2012-07-09 06:39:33 PM

gilgigamesh: she's asking them to float the principal as well.

Cyberluddite		2012-07-09 07:16:04 PM

gilgigamesh: I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal.

Unless you have inside info on this particular loan, your statement seems likely to be 180 degrees wrong. Unless they've been paying on the loan for many years, actually the vast majority of the payment is interest, not principal. For example, a $170K 30-year loan at 5% APR would result in a montly payment of around $912, and the first payment would be $708 in interest and only $204 in principal. Over the years, if the scheduled payments are made, the ratio comes down, but if you look at the table in that link you'll see that it's not until 14+ years into the loan that the percentage of the monthly payment that goes to prinicipal reduction exceeds the percentage that goes to interest.

I'm not saying that Wells Fargo needs to foregive the loan or reduce the payments in this case--I'm just saying your basic point seems incorrect here.

Gwendolyn		2012-07-09 07:32:10 PM

"They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

And she thinks Wells Fargo is the problem?

gilgigamesh		2012-07-09 08:16:42 PM

Cyberluddite: gilgigamesh: I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal.

Unless you have inside info on this particular loan, your statement seems likely to be 180 degrees wrong. Unless they've been paying on the loan for many years, actually the vast majority of the payment is interest, not principal. For example, a $170K 30-year loan at 5% APR would result in a montly payment of around $912, and the first payment would be $708 in interest and only $204 in principal. Over the years, if the scheduled payments are made, the ratio comes down, but if you look at the table in that link you'll see that it's not until 14+ years into the loan that the percentage of the monthly payment that goes to prinicipal reduction exceeds the percentage that goes to interest.

I'm not saying that Wells Fargo needs to foregive the loan or reduce the payments in this case--I'm just saying your basic point seems incorrect here.

I'm assuming they've been living there a while. They don't seem like new home buyers.

Marcus Aurelius		2012-07-09 08:25:10 PM

It's too bad we don't have universal health care, and instead view it as just another industry where CEOs get to line their pockets on the backs of the working classes.

coco ebert		2012-07-09 08:28:33 PM

gilgigamesh: I want to feel bad for these people. OK, well I do, but I want to feel like there's a bad guy here, and that the bank is that bad guy, but then there's this quote:

"They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal. If they are trying to negotiate it down to half that, she is effectively asking Wells Fargo not only to take a loss on the interest payments, she's asking them the principal as well. Even if WF is willing to work with them, there's just no freaking way that can happen. Banks are not in business to subsidize your home purchase.

Much as I hate to say it, these folks need to just cut their losses and move into a section 8 rental.

Ha! You know how long the waiting list is for section 8?

djkutch		2012-07-09 08:31:17 PM

I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

serial_crusher		2012-07-09 08:32:08 PM

coco ebert: gilgigamesh: I want to feel bad for these people. OK, well I do, but I want to feel like there's a bad guy here, and that the bank is that bad guy, but then there's this quote:

"They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal. If they are trying to negotiate it down to half that, she is effectively asking Wells Fargo not only to take a loss on the interest payments, she's asking them the principal as well. Even if WF is willing to work with them, there's just no freaking way that can happen. Banks are not in business to subsidize your home purchase.

Much as I hate to say it, these folks need to just cut their losses and move into a section 8 rental.

Ha! You know how long the waiting list is for section 8?

Is it longer than 4 years?

pudding7		2012-07-09 08:34:51 PM

Marcus Aurelius: It's too bad we don't have universal health care, and instead view it as just another industry where CEOs get to line their pockets on the backs of the working classes.

Exactly. I want to know how this couple feels about "Obamacare" before I decide to feel any sympathy for them.

MaudlinMutantMollusk		2012-07-09 08:38:06 PM

Gwendolyn: "They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

And she thinks Wells Fargo is the problem?

Seriously, THIS^

/that's insane, especially when the same meds in almost any other country would cost a fraction of that

Party Boy		2012-07-09 08:44:00 PM

/moved the blanket over some, mod.

coco ebert		2012-07-09 08:52:03 PM

serial_crusher: coco ebert: gilgigamesh: I want to feel bad for these people. OK, well I do, but I want to feel like there's a bad guy here, and that the bank is that bad guy, but then there's this quote:

"They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal. If they are trying to negotiate it down to half that, she is effectively asking Wells Fargo not only to take a loss on the interest payments, she's asking them the principal as well. Even if WF is willing to work with them, there's just no freaking way that can happen. Banks are not in business to subsidize your home purchase.

Much as I hate to say it, these folks need to just cut their losses and move into a section 8 rental.

Ha! You know how long the waiting list is for section 8?

Is it longer than 4 years?

It can be.

Ed Finnerty		2012-07-09 08:55:47 PM

You mislead ilbtards need to study your American history and stop reading so much Marx and Hitler.

She acts like she "deserves" life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Like it's some type of right or something.

That is pure, unadulterated Communastical Soshulism at its worst.

MaudlinMutantMollusk		2012-07-09 09:02:19 PM

Ed Finnerty: You mislead ilbtards need to study your American history and stop reading so much Marx and Hitler.

She acts like she "deserves" life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Like it's some type of right or something.

That is pure, unadulterated Communastical Soshulism at its worst.

i49.tinypic.com

ArkAngel		2012-07-09 09:08:43 PM

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-09 09:16:16 PM

Hey, at least she can get coverage now with her pre-existing condition, right?

Lousy farking compromise, Obama. You farked this one up.

Virtual Pariah		2012-07-09 09:16:40 PM

This seems more an indictment of our healthcare system than for the bank.

fusillade762		2012-07-09 09:23:43 PM

She should just go to a nearby Wells Fargo and stick up the place. Either she gets away with a bunch of money or she goes to jail where she gets free healthcare and room & board. It's a win-win!

s2s2s2		2012-07-09 09:24:14 PM

gilgigamesh: I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications

Thanks a lot Bushfartbo!

Pray 4 Mojo		2012-07-09 09:26:26 PM

Sucks for them and all... but since when did Wells Fargo become a charity?

/Wells Fargo sucks
//A lot
///Still don't see how this is something "they" are doing.

Lt. Cheese Weasel		2012-07-09 09:28:16 PM

Party Boy: [i.imgur.com image 500x322]

/moved the blanket over some, mod.

Dude....

mab1823		2012-07-09 09:30:53 PM

I would just like to know how bootstrappy she should have been 20 years ago in order to prepare for this cancer ahead of time. Clearly she needed someone to spread the work ethic and not the wealth.

kg2095		2012-07-09 09:31:53 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Hey, at least she can get coverage now with her pre-existing condition, right?

Lousy farking compromise, Obama. You farked this one up.

You are having the little joke no? With the attitude to government subsidized health care in your country it's a miracle you even have that compromise. Obama didn't fark up - your general societal attitude did.

Abe Vigoda's Ghost		2012-07-09 09:32:23 PM

djkutch: I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

I understand your concern. I suggest reaching into your own pockets and helping out this woman in need, since you can't count on corporations to do the Christian thing.

ladyfortuna		2012-07-09 09:37:00 PM

mitchcumstein1: serial_crusher:

This woman is going to die. It's going to be painful and horrible. There's good business, and there's good common sense. Wells Fargo should probably use the common sense on this one.

In this case, common sense may be the best business they could do (ie payment forgiveness at least for a while).

If/when I get the big C (breast cancer in BOTH parents, YAY!), if I end up in a situation like that... I'm going to call AP, NPR, maybe a couple of other news broadcasters, and camp out on the front steps of their corporate office while I die. If nothing else, perhaps it'll tear people away from their CSI reruns for a night...

somemoron		2012-07-09 09:38:10 PM

Party Boy: [i.imgur.com image 500x322]

/moved the blanket over some, mod.

Holy Hell.. is that a living human or a bizarre statue... How can that poor bastard even move? fark...

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-09 09:38:28 PM

kg2095: AverageAmericanGuy: Hey, at least she can get coverage now with her pre-existing condition, right?

Lousy farking compromise, Obama. You farked this one up.

You are having the little joke no? With the attitude to government subsidized health care in your country it's a miracle you even have that compromise. Obama didn't fark up - your general societal attitude did.

There was a short window of opportunity at the beginning of Obama's term where he was riding high in the polls and had huge amounts of support and the Republicans were flailing wildly. He wasted it and let the Republicans catch their footing. Now it's a huge clusterfark, and it is Obama's fault for squandering the chance.

Sudlow		2012-07-09 09:38:37 PM

I think under Obamacare, at her age she just gets pain medication.

/sick of obamacare discussions
//can we keep it to a wells fargo sucks thread

buckler		2012-07-09 09:39:26 PM

"We understand that many of our customers may face challenges beyond their mortgage payment, so we often work with local housing counselors and other non-profits that can help determine if any other assistance may be available," the bank said.

Please note that "often" is a relative term, Which Wells Fargo may choose to interpret at its discretion.

King Something		2012-07-09 09:41:55 PM

America has the best health care system in the world (certain restrictions apply, not available for some income brackets)

SacriliciousBeerSwiller		2012-07-09 09:44:35 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Party Boy: [i.imgur.com image 500x322]

/moved the blanket over some, mod.

Dude....

I'm all for people putting human suffering in the faces of others to remind them of their priorities...especially laissez-faire me-first teatards (not that you fall into this category). He gets a golf clap from me.

natural316		2012-07-09 09:46:38 PM

I stopped paying my mortgage on my old house a year and a half ago, bought a new one and basically walked on the other, still waiting for BOA to come and just take the flipping thing

autopsybeverage		2012-07-09 09:48:46 PM

buckler: "We understand that many of our customers may face challenges beyond their mortgage payment, so we often work with local housing counselors and other non-profits that can help determine if any other assistance may be available," the bank said.

Please note that "often" is a relative term, Which Wells Fargo may choose to interpret at its discretion.

So you're saying that someone without such lending savvy may choose to use the phrase "rarely" or "never?"

Gdalescrboz		2012-07-09 09:49:53 PM

"They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

Uhh, am i missing something? Should i be complaining about having to make payments on the house i bought? While a terrible situation, I'm pretty sure having other bills to pay doesnt get you out of paying bills. Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah health care costs, i know. Still doesnt get you out of your obligations

nytmare		2012-07-09 09:50:27 PM

While you're asking the mortgage company to forgive your mortgage payments so you can make your pill payments, why not ask the pill company to forgive your pill payments so you can make your mortgage payment. BAM you're in the clear.

SpaceBison		2012-07-09 09:52:27 PM

djkutch: I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

The last time I checked we lived in a secular nation.

findthefish		2012-07-09 09:52:48 PM

nytmare: While you're asking the mortgage company to forgive your mortgage payments so you can make your pill payments, why not ask the pill company to forgive your pill payments so you can make your mortgage payment. BAM you're in the clear.

Pills keep me alive so I can make payment.....WHY NOT BANK see this?

Invincible		2012-07-09 09:53:26 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: kg2095: AverageAmericanGuy: Hey, at least she can get coverage now with her pre-existing condition, right?

Lousy farking compromise, Obama. You farked this one up.

You are having the little joke no? With the attitude to government subsidized health care in your country it's a miracle you even have that compromise. Obama didn't fark up - your general societal attitude did.

There was a short window of opportunity at the beginning of Obama's term where he was riding high in the polls and had huge amounts of support and the Republicans were flailing wildly. He wasted it and let the Republicans catch their footing. Now it's a huge clusterfark, and it is Obama's fault for squandering the chance.

I've never understood this line of debate. Maybe it's a poe's law thing. It's Obama's fault because he underestimated the Republican's desire to destroy the country, wasted his brief window of power with things like inclusion and consensus-building, and now fights an uphill battle for every bit of good he tries to do...so vote Republican.

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 09:55:00 PM

Wells Fargo probably didn't give her cancer. As such Wells Fargo shouldn't be expected to lose money because of her cancer.

wambu		2012-07-09 09:58:36 PM

The bank agrees to give you money and you agree to give it back. It's amazing how many people think that the giving back part is optional.

This unfortunate woman needs to be reaching out to her community for help, not the bank.

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-09 10:00:09 PM

Seasons I'v Withered		2012-07-09 10:02:03 PM

Party Boy: [i.imgur.com image 500x322]

/moved the blanket over some, mod.

Well that was a chilling P/S --
Tanks for the nightmare pal

/no lie

somemoron		2012-07-09 10:02:11 PM

Gdalescrboz: "They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

Uhh, am i missing something? Should i be complaining about having to make payments on the house i bought? While a terrible situation, I'm pretty sure having other bills to pay doesnt get you out of paying bills. Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah health care costs, i know. Still doesnt get you out of your obligations

It's stage four cancer, Scrooge. As in, probably will be dead soon. In this slow housing market, is it really gonna kill WF to back off a little?

CHOICE A: Let the person do the best they can and hope they get better. If not, a little mercy for their end of life goes a long way. The house isn't going to sell fast anyway in this market. Let 'em stay a little longer.
CHOICE B: GET THE fark OUT AND DIE ON THE SIDEWALK ASSHOLE. Let the house sit on the market, more than likely empty, for six months to a year, if not more.

Bad things happen to good, honest people, and it changes their abilities to pay their bills. Is that any reason to make a giant-ass corporation inconvenienced a tiny bit?

The answer is yes, yes it is. Corporations are not the be-all and end-all.

stiletto_the_wise		2012-07-09 10:02:15 PM

Didn't take long for the Mighty Defenders Of Corporate Profit to find this thread, swoop in and white-knight for yet another unfairly criticized corporation!

Ed Finnerty		2012-07-09 10:02:29 PM

The Only Jeff: Wells Fargo probably didn't give her cancer. As such Wells Fargo shouldn't be expected to lose money because of her cancer.

We can't completely rule that out either.

JK47		2012-07-09 10:03:03 PM

serial_crusher: Is it longer than 4 years?

It's 4 to 6 years...if the waiting list is open. Looks like the list is closed for the area that this woman lives in.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-07-09 10:03:20 PM

The Only Jeff: Wells Fargo probably didn't give her cancer. As such Wells Fargo shouldn't be expected to lose money because of her cancer.

The funny part is that they will anyway when she dies.

PunGent		2012-07-09 10:04:35 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: kg2095: AverageAmericanGuy: Hey, at least she can get coverage now with her pre-existing condition, right?

Lousy farking compromise, Obama. You farked this one up.

You are having the little joke no? With the attitude to government subsidized health care in your country it's a miracle you even have that compromise. Obama didn't fark up - your general societal attitude did.

There was a short window of opportunity at the beginning of Obama's term where he was riding high in the polls and had huge amounts of support and the Republicans were flailing wildly. He wasted it and let the Republicans catch their footing. Now it's a huge clusterfark, and it is Obama's fault for squandering the chance.

Yeah, it's not like Obama didn't get a couple of unfinished wars and the worst recession since the Great Depression handed to him by Bush. He should've totally done health care.

Which the Republicans would've shot down.

You've GOT to be trolling.

PunGent		2012-07-09 10:05:57 PM

stiletto_the_wise: Didn't take long for the Mighty Defenders Of Corporate Profit to find this thread, swoop in and white-knight for yet another unfairly criticized corporation!

Well, in this case, in seems for once it ain't the bank that's at fault, it's a DIFFERENT heartless corporation.

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 10:06:31 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The Only Jeff: Wells Fargo probably didn't give her cancer. As such Wells Fargo shouldn't be expected to lose money because of her cancer.

The funny part is that they will anyway when she dies.

They'll foreclose the house and resell it. Not a great situation for anyone, especially the cancer victim, but so it goes.

firefly212		2012-07-09 10:06:34 PM

Gee a country that thinks it's ok to die from a lack of money would also think its ok to make people homeless because they're ill... color me the opposite of shocked.

/Christian nation my ass.

ph0rk		2012-07-09 10:06:56 PM

somemoron: The answer is yes, yes it is. Corporations are not the be-all and end-all.

Not in America.

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 10:07:57 PM

firefly212: Gee a country that thinks it's ok to die from a lack of money would also think its ok to make people homeless because they're ill... color me the opposite of shocked.

/Christian nation my ass.

That's reductionist. No one is saying they like the situation or that they're ok with it, they're say it's not Wells Fargo's job to remedy it. How much have you donated to the American Cancer Society today?

firefly212		2012-07-09 10:08:45 PM

gilgigamesh: I want to feel bad for these people. OK, well I do, but I want to feel like there's a bad guy here, and that the bank is that bad guy, but then there's this quote:

"They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal. If they are trying to negotiate it down to half that, she is effectively asking Wells Fargo not only to take a loss on the interest payments, she's asking them the principal as well. Even if WF is willing to work with them, there's just no freaking way that can happen. Banks are not in business to subsidize your home purchase.

Much as I hate to say it, these folks need to just cut their losses and move into a section 8 rental.

They're gonna get the house in the estate proceedings anyways, let's not go out and pretend they're going to take a loss on it. That'd just be lying, and we know you wouldn't do that.

Invincible		2012-07-09 10:09:41 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Invincible: I've never understood this line of debate. Maybe it's a poe's law thing. It's Obama's fault because he underestimated the Republican's desire to destroy the country, wasted his brief window of power with things like inclusion and consensus-building, and now fights an uphill battle for every bit of good he tries to do...so vote Republican.

I never said "vote Republican". That's your own insecurity talking there, bub.

My bad. It never occurred to me that someone would expend so much energy attacking their own side. Hey, I guess Obama and I have that in common.

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-09 10:10:13 PM

PunGent: AverageAmericanGuy: kg2095: AverageAmericanGuy: Hey, at least she can get coverage now with her pre-existing condition, right?

Lousy farking compromise, Obama. You farked this one up.

You are having the little joke no? With the attitude to government subsidized health care in your country it's a miracle you even have that compromise. Obama didn't fark up - your general societal attitude did.

There was a short window of opportunity at the beginning of Obama's term where he was riding high in the polls and had huge amounts of support and the Republicans were flailing wildly. He wasted it and let the Republicans catch their footing. Now it's a huge clusterfark, and it is Obama's fault for squandering the chance.

Yeah, it's not like Obama didn't get a couple of unfinished wars and the worst recession since the Great Depression handed to him by Bush. He should've totally done health care.

Which the Republicans would've shot down.

You've GOT to be trolling.

The lengths you guys will go to defend your guy.

Are you really going to say that Obamacare is a huge victory?

JK47		2012-07-09 10:10:48 PM

Gdalescrboz: Uhh, am i missing something? Should i be complaining about having to make payments on the house i bought? While a terrible situation, I'm pretty sure having other bills to pay doesnt get you out of paying bills. Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah health care costs, i know. Still doesnt get you out of your obligations

This is one of those instances where being inflexible is both pointless and tremendously stupid. You may recall that the cause of the financial collapse stemmed from making loans to bad risks while repackaging the debt and selling them as financial instruments of high quality. When the risks turned sour undermining or eliminating the return on those instruments the entire system melted down. So, forcing someone into foreclosure doesn't serve the best interests of either the institution or the general public even though it would serve as a "lesson" which simple minded bible-thumping hard-ass conservatives so love. The best route would be to restructure the payment schedule in order to accommodate their current financial troubles which would maintain some level of revenue from the property. A foreclosed home will yield next to nothing and only places more strain on the financial system.

ancker		2012-07-09 10:11:11 PM

Some data here: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/cancer.htm
It says 19.4 million people have been diagnosed with cancer.

Assuming half of them are adults, and say maybe half of that own homes, that's still roughly 5 million people that have mortgages and were diagnosed with cancer. Say I'm off by 500%, call it 1 million people with cancer and a mortgage.

I'm all for compassion and that stuff, but I doubt the housing industry can forgive the loans of 1 million people. And if cancer warrants forgiveness of loans, what about HIV and other chronic or terminal illnesses. Do they also get their car loans forgiven? What about student loans? Who pays for their kids' college tuition? I really wish there was an answer. It would be awesome if these people could be taken care of financially so all they had to do was fight off the cancer. But unfortunately that just can't happen.

Say you were CEO of Wells Fargo. Say you forgave the loan of this person, well, what about the lady with two infant children? Who helps them out? If you help one person, why not two, three, four, one hundred? At some point you have to stop it or your company goes broke. But then you're a villain for not helping that one hundred and first person. You simply cannot win.

I hate to say it, but it kinda seems the line from War Games says it best. "The only winning move is not to play at all."

And for those saying the healthcare industry is the issue. I somewhat agree, but are drugs supposed to be free? It takes VERY smart people a LOT of time and expertise to develop, test, refine, test, run trials, develop, test, rinse repeat every drug before it's safe and hits the market for consumption. It probably isn't what we have to pay for it, but it sure isn't free. Just blaming the healthcare industry isn't the answer here either.

The real culprit here is cancer. We kill the cancer, we kill these problems. If you really want to help. Log on to you favorite cancer charity and donate a dollar.

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-09 10:12:25 PM

Invincible: AverageAmericanGuy: Invincible: I've never understood this line of debate. Maybe it's a poe's law thing. It's Obama's fault because he underestimated the Republican's desire to destroy the country, wasted his brief window of power with things like inclusion and consensus-building, and now fights an uphill battle for every bit of good he tries to do...so vote Republican.

I never said "vote Republican". That's your own insecurity talking there, bub.

My bad. It never occurred to me that someone would expend so much energy attacking their own side. Hey, I guess Obama and I have that in common.

LOL. Nor did I say I was on his side.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-07-09 10:12:26 PM

The Only Jeff: The My Little Pony Killer: The Only Jeff: Wells Fargo probably didn't give her cancer. As such Wells Fargo shouldn't be expected to lose money because of her cancer.

The funny part is that they will anyway when she dies.

They'll foreclose the house and resell it. Not a great situation for anyone, especially the cancer victim, but so it goes.

That they can put this situation into such concrete terms speaks volumes about their own humanity, and that does not bode well on their part.

ph0rk		2012-07-09 10:12:39 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Are you really going to say that Obamacare is a huge victory?

In that Romney can't attack it without crucifying himself, therefore it wins Obama the next election, yeah. Victory.

JK47		2012-07-09 10:13:12 PM

The Only Jeff: Wells Fargo probably didn't give her cancer. As such Wells Fargo shouldn't be expected to lose money because of her cancer.

Oh yes because they'll recover the full principle when they try to sell this thing after foreclosure. Sure as hell won't get anything from the family once they enter bankruptcy.

Ed Finnerty		2012-07-09 10:14:25 PM

Cancer. Mortgage. Wet.

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 10:15:20 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The Only Jeff: The My Little Pony Killer: The Only Jeff: Wells Fargo probably didn't give her cancer. As such Wells Fargo shouldn't be expected to lose money because of her cancer.

The funny part is that they will anyway when she dies.

They'll foreclose the house and resell it. Not a great situation for anyone, especially the cancer victim, but so it goes.

That they can put this situation into such concrete terms speaks volumes about their own humanity, and that does not bode well on their part.

I thought Fark was of the opinion that corporations weren't people?

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-09 10:16:11 PM

ph0rk: AverageAmericanGuy: Are you really going to say that Obamacare is a huge victory?

In that Romney can't attack it without crucifying himself, therefore it wins Obama the next election, yeah. Victory.

Obama is as bad as Romney! So vote Obama!

Whatever works, I guess.

Meanwhile, private insurance companies make record profits, healthcare costs are still in the clouds, and the people with pre-existing conditions are now paying through the nose for coverage.

fjnorton		2012-07-09 10:17:02 PM

Where is the story about a bank in Utica, Binghamton.. where the bank still loaned money on potential and never had a foreclosure or a default.

Curse of the Goth Kids		2012-07-09 10:17:17 PM

somemoron: CHOICE A: Let the person do the best they can and hope they get better. If not, a little mercy for their end of life goes a long way. The house isn't going to sell fast anyway in this market. Let 'em stay a little longer.
CHOICE B: GET THE fark OUT AND DIE ON THE SIDEWALK ASSHOLE. Let the house sit on the market, more than likely empty, for six months to a year, if not more.

This. At stage IV, Wells Fargo WILL be getting that house back. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in a few more months. Then with any luck, they can sell it to somebody else who will pay a lot on it and then get catastrophically ill. Cha-CHING!

ph0rk		2012-07-09 10:19:01 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: ph0rk: AverageAmericanGuy: Are you really going to say that Obamacare is a huge victory?

In that Romney can't attack it without crucifying himself, therefore it wins Obama the next election, yeah. Victory.

Obama is as bad as Romney! So vote Obama!

Whatever works, I guess.

Meanwhile, private insurance companies make record profits, healthcare costs are still in the clouds, and the people with pre-existing conditions are now paying through the nose for coverage.

Now look who is putting words in someone else's mouth.

Single payer would never have happened. Maybe in ten or twenty years we'll get there, but not right now with most of the far right kicking and screaming.

A realist would understand this, regardless of whatever fantasy independent political party they see themselves in.

firefly212		2012-07-09 10:21:43 PM

The Only Jeff: firefly212: Gee a country that thinks it's ok to die from a lack of money would also think its ok to make people homeless because they're ill... color me the opposite of shocked.

/Christian nation my ass.

That's reductionist. No one is saying they like the situation or that they're ok with it, they're say it's not Wells Fargo's job to remedy it. How much have you donated to the American Cancer Society today?

They aren't going to lose money is the thing... they'll end up in the black whether they sell the house now or in a year... the question here is of social responsibility... corporations like to pretend they're people, as we have somehow been conned into giving them more legal rights than actual people with flesh even, I think it's only fair that we still be allowed to call them out when they are engaging in dickish behavior. Was BoA obliged legally or fiduciarily to not close my account (overdrawn 18 cents) when I was in the hospital for more than a month... no, but it was still a dick move of them. Sometimes things being legal doesn't make them ethical. What they're doing is legal, to be sure... but it's unethical as hell, given that they have options that put them in the black either way, and especially given that they took billions of taxpayer dollars specifically to rehabilitate problematic mortgages... what it comes down to is that they're terrible people, and from the fiduciary standpoint, how much do they lose by being so consistently douchebaggish? Banks like Wells Fargo just prove Bernie Sanders point about how we need to implement anti-trust laws... if banks like this are "too big to fail," they're too big to exist... taxpayers and the fed give them billions of dollars and cut them all kinds of slack, and the thanks we get from them is a swift metaphoric kick in the nuts.

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-09 10:22:57 PM

ph0rk: AverageAmericanGuy: ph0rk: AverageAmericanGuy: Are you really going to say that Obamacare is a huge victory?

In that Romney can't attack it without crucifying himself, therefore it wins Obama the next election, yeah. Victory.

Obama is as bad as Romney! So vote Obama!

Whatever works, I guess.

Meanwhile, private insurance companies make record profits, healthcare costs are still in the clouds, and the people with pre-existing conditions are now paying through the nose for coverage.

Now look who is putting words in someone else's mouth.

Single payer would never have happened. Maybe in ten or twenty years we'll get there, but not right now with most of the far right kicking and screaming.

A realist would understand this, regardless of whatever fantasy independent political party they see themselves in.

Yes, today that reality is further away. But 3 years ago it was much closer.

chookbillion		2012-07-09 10:24:10 PM

kg2095: AverageAmericanGuy: Hey, at least she can get coverage now with her pre-existing condition, right?

Lousy farking compromise, Obama. You farked this one up.

You are having the little joke no? With the attitude to government subsidized health care in your country it's a miracle you even have that compromise. Obama didn't fark up - your general societal attitude did.

djkutch: I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

I understand your concern. I suggest reaching into your own pockets and helping out this woman in need, since you can't count on corporations to do the Christian thing.

Fascinating that these two were right next to each other.

stuffy		2012-07-09 10:24:30 PM

All the millions spent on advertising wasted by one douchebagy move.

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 10:25:39 PM

firefly212: The Only Jeff: firefly212: Gee a country that thinks it's ok to die from a lack of money would also think its ok to make people homeless because they're ill... color me the opposite of shocked.

/Christian nation my ass.

That's reductionist. No one is saying they like the situation or that they're ok with it, they're say it's not Wells Fargo's job to remedy it. How much have you donated to the American Cancer Society today?

They aren't going to lose money is the thing... they'll end up in the black whether they sell the house now or in a year... the question here is of social responsibility... corporations like to pretend they're people, as we have somehow been conned into giving them more legal rights than actual people with flesh even, I think it's only fair that we still be allowed to call them out when they are engaging in dickish behavior. Was BoA obliged legally or fiduciarily to not close my account (overdrawn 18 cents) when I was in the hospital for more than a month... no, but it was still a dick move of them. Sometimes things being legal doesn't make them ethical. What they're doing is legal, to be sure... but it's unethical as hell, given that they have options that put them in the black either way, and especially given that they took billions of taxpayer dollars specifically to rehabilitate problematic mortgages... what it comes down to is that they're terrible people, and from the fiduciary standpoint, how much do they lose by being so consistently douchebaggish? Banks like Wells Fargo just prove Bernie Sanders point about how we need to implement anti-trust laws... if banks like this are "too big to fail," they're too big to exist... taxpayers and the fed give them billions of dollars and cut them all kinds of slack, and the thanks we get from them is a swift metaphoric kick in the nuts.

I agree any bank that is "too big to fail" needs to be hit with an anti-trust lawsuit. But that's a separate Fark thread. It sucks you lost your account because you were in the hospital, but if you don't pay your bills, that's what happens. That wasn't BoA's fault. I believe that if it made more financial sense for the bank to forgive some or part of her payments that's what they do, just from a self-interest standpoint. If they're going to foreclose on her it's because doing otherwise will lose them money.

Keizer_Ghidorah		2012-07-09 10:27:00 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: PunGent: AverageAmericanGuy: kg2095: AverageAmericanGuy: Hey, at least she can get coverage now with her pre-existing condition, right?

Lousy farking compromise, Obama. You farked this one up.

You are having the little joke no? With the attitude to government subsidized health care in your country it's a miracle you even have that compromise. Obama didn't fark up - your general societal attitude did.

There was a short window of opportunity at the beginning of Obama's term where he was riding high in the polls and had huge amounts of support and the Republicans were flailing wildly. He wasted it and let the Republicans catch their footing. Now it's a huge clusterfark, and it is Obama's fault for squandering the chance.

Yeah, it's not like Obama didn't get a couple of unfinished wars and the worst recession since the Great Depression handed to him by Bush. He should've totally done health care.

Which the Republicans would've shot down.

You've GOT to be trolling.

The lengths you guys will go to defend your guy.

Are you really going to say that Obamacare is a huge victory?

Muzzle it, farknut. It's getting really tiring listening to people like you constantly tell us how much you hate people having health insurance and that we should let sick people die like dogs. I'm sorry you hate Obama so much for whatever reason, but stop trying to destroy America because of your retarded little political war.

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-09 10:28:00 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: It's getting really tiring listening to people like you constantly tell us how much you hate people having health insurance and that we should let sick people die like dogs.

Well, good thing I never said that.

Jument		2012-07-09 10:28:14 PM

This is not the bank being evil. It's the American healthcare system sticking it to the sick who can't afford their treatments. By all means though, continue to reject universal healthcare and blame a bank. I guess that's easier to live with.

ElBarto79		2012-07-09 10:28:35 PM

I hope this woman is praying for Romney to win, once he repeals Obamacare and cuts taxes for the rich the wealth will all trickle down to her and her problems will just melt away.

chookbillion		2012-07-09 10:28:57 PM

nytmare: While you're asking the mortgage company to forgive your mortgage payments so you can make your pill payments, why not ask the pill company to forgive your pill payments so you can make your mortgage payment. BAM you're in the clear.

this is pretty much what I was thinking. Why is one greedy but the other not?
People have no problem paying for what they want, but it sucks for them to pay for what they need.

Aexia		2012-07-09 10:30:02 PM

Invincible: I've never understood this line of debate. Maybe it's a poe's law thing. It's Obama's fault because he underestimated the Republican's desire to destroy the country, wasted his brief window of power with things like inclusion and consensus-building, and now fights an uphill battle for every bit of good he tries to do...so vote Republican.

It also seems to pretend that Obama had 60 votes from the start (he didn't), that Democrats vote in lock step (they don't) and that his first month it wasn't pulling teeth to get any sort of stimulus passed (remember, they started at $1.5 trillion).

Those first two years were a golden age of legislative work. A ton of policy people left the Hill for greener pastures after 2010 even if their bosses survived the wave because they knew they were never going to get as much done afterwards as they did 2009-2010.

RockChalkH1N1		2012-07-09 10:32:07 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: AverageAmericanGuy: PunGent: AverageAmericanGuy: kg2095: AverageAmericanGuy: Hey, at least she can get coverage now with her pre-existing condition, right?

Lousy farking compromise, Obama. You farked this one up.

You are having the little joke no? With the attitude to government subsidized health care in your country it's a miracle you even have that compromise. Obama didn't fark up - your general societal attitude did.

There was a short window of opportunity at the beginning of Obama's term where he was riding high in the polls and had huge amounts of support and the Republicans were flailing wildly. He wasted it and let the Republicans catch their footing. Now it's a huge clusterfark, and it is Obama's fault for squandering the chance.

Yeah, it's not like Obama didn't get a couple of unfinished wars and the worst recession since the Great Depression handed to him by Bush. He should've totally done health care.

Which the Republicans would've shot down.

You've GOT to be trolling.

The lengths you guys will go to defend your guy.

Are you really going to say that Obamacare is a huge victory?

Muzzle it, farknut. It's getting really tiring listening to people like you constantly tell us how much you hate people having health insurance and that we should let sick people die like dogs. I'm sorry you hate Obama so much for whatever reason, but stop trying to destroy America because of your retarded little political war.

I hate the idea of people getting free handouts, stop supporting it

farkityfarker		2012-07-09 10:32:37 PM

The free market, baby. It works!

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl		2012-07-09 10:33:11 PM

The couple that rents my house had the same situation happen to them.

Young woman age 34, diagnosed w/stage 3 breast cancer. They had three kids and double careers. When she got too sick to work from the chemo they fell behind 2 months in their payments before the family and neighborhood had a fundraiser for the family so they could keep their house. The husband made enough money to support the mortgage but not to immediately catch up to the 2 months they were behind.

They ended up after the fundraiser with enough money to pay off the arrears and at least five or six months in advance, but the bank wouldn't take the money. So they rented my place for about what a mortgage would cost. They're reliable and good tenants. She's still OK but taking it day to day after 2 years now.

Banks are stupid.

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-09 10:33:18 PM

clipperbox		2012-07-09 10:33:42 PM

if this was hong kong, she'd already be dead

krant.telegraaf.nl

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 10:34:22 PM

Jument: This is not the bank being evil. It's the American healthcare system sticking it to the sick who can't afford their treatments. By all means though, continue to reject universal healthcare and blame a bank. I guess that's easier to live with.

It's not the heathcare system sticking it to anyone. Chemo is expensive. It's difficult to make, research is expensive, and it's not as reliable as meds for chronic conditions like asthma or high blood pressure. Universal healthcare just means everyone pays more for healthcare. You will cover more people but at a higher cost. At 15.7 trillion dollars of debt and climbing, a lot of people don't think that's the best way forward right now.

KIA		2012-07-09 10:46:04 PM

Jument: continue to reject universal health

How does that lower the cost of anything exactly?

Oh, it doesn't get lowered, it actually just transfers the cost to other people you say?

Well, as long as it's "other" people, then that's just fine. Wait, you say all of the costs of all of the sick people are going to be taken off of them and placed on everyone who's left?

Wow. So every illness of every kind everywhere is suddenly a matter of both national concern and personal concern because YOU are now going to pay for it. All of the herpes, all of the gout, all of the pinkeye, all of the strep throat, all of the diabetes, the heart disease, cancer, AIDS, age-related degeneration, pregnancy, mental illness, OCD, ADD, Every. Single. Illness. Your personal pocket.

We got helmet laws after driving insurance became mandatory. Anyone still think there won't be "broccoli and tofu" legislation for everyone in the near future? Another prohibition for alcohol? Rationed sugar intake? It's all for the common good, citizen.

On the bright side, we'll probably get a more rational draft that sends the weak and ill to fight and die instead of the strong and healthy. This should keep wars much shorter and less violent.

jmr61		2012-07-09 10:46:42 PM

So Wells Fargo kept up their part of the contract but she didn't.

I don't see the issue or the problem.

Ken VeryBigLiar		2012-07-09 10:47:19 PM

gilgigamesh: I'm assuming they've been living there a while. They don't seem like new home buyers.

They could have also flushed out their equity before she got cancer. The banking industry has given homeowners many ways to stay on the credit spin-cycle.

elffster		2012-07-09 10:51:02 PM

The Only Jeff: Jument: This is not the bank being evil. It's the American healthcare system sticking it to the sick who can't afford their treatments. By all means though, continue to reject universal healthcare and blame a bank. I guess that's easier to live with.

It's not the heathcare system sticking it to anyone. Chemo is expensive. It's difficult to make, research is expensive, and it's not as reliable as meds for chronic conditions like asthma or high blood pressure. Universal healthcare just means everyone pays more for healthcare. You will cover more people but at a higher cost. At 15.7 trillion dollars of debt and climbing, a lot of people don't think that's the best way forward right now.

Then dont start pointless expensive wars, hand out Billions to Wall Street, and other stupid shiat.

SurelyShirley		2012-07-09 10:52:00 PM

Gwendolyn: "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

And she thinks Wells Fargo is the problem?

Exactly.
If that was me, stage 4 cancer, little to no chance to survive, I'd rather punch some GSK or Pfizer CEO 1100 times in the face, before I volunteer to make payments on his new Porsche.

Gdalescrboz		2012-07-09 10:53:47 PM

somemoron

Gdalescrboz: "They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

Uhh, am i missing something? Should i be complaining about having to make payments on the house i bought? While a terrible situation, I'm pretty sure having other bills to pay doesnt get you out of paying bills. Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah health care costs, i know. Still doesnt get you out of your obligations

It's stage four cancer, Scrooge. As in, probably will be dead soon. In this slow housing market, is it really gonna kill WF to back off a little?

CHOICE A: Let the person do the best they can and hope they get better. If not, a little mercy for their end of life goes a long way. The house isn't going to sell fast anyway in this market. Let 'em stay a little longer.
CHOICE B: GET THE fark OUT AND DIE ON THE SIDEWALK ASSHOLE. Let the house sit on the market, more than likely empty, for six months to a year, if not more.

Bad things happen to good, honest people, and it changes their abilities to pay their bills. Is that any reason to make a giant-ass corporation inconvenienced a tiny bit?

The answer is yes, yes it is. Corporations are not the be-all and end-all

Are you suggesting she shouldnt have to pay her morgage? I mean, if you are goign to let that slide, where do you draw the line? Does she have to pay water bills? Electricity? Food? Cable? I'm serious, where do you draw the line? Additionally, why is it the morgage she gets to skip out on? Why not taxes on income? I cant wait for your answer, it should be a doosy. It will be jam packed full of valid and logical points im sure. Pro tip, stop letting your emotions control your decision making process

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-09 10:53:54 PM

jmr61: So Wells Fargo kept up their part of the contract but she didn't.

Sometimes life isn't about contacts, it's about something deeper than that.

The Only Jeff: . Universal healthcare just means everyone pays more for healthcare.

that would be why healthcare costs less in every country with universal coverage....

T-Servo		2012-07-09 10:55:08 PM

Here, Ed. You know, you remember last year when things weren't going so well, and you couldn't make your payments? You didn't lose your house, did you? Do you think Potter would have let you keep it? Can't you understand what's happening here? Don't you see what's happening?

www.williamkwolfrum.com

wambu: The bank agrees to give you money and you agree to give it back. It's amazing how many people think that the giving back part is optional.

Doubletwist-		2012-07-09 10:55:28 PM

I can't really speak to what's happening specifically with this person, but I can say that I hate Wells Fargo more than any other company I've ever dealt with.

Short version:
1. I moved and closed my account with another bank and open account with Wells Fargo near new home.
2. AOL made an ACH charge to the closed account that they weren't supposed to then tried again.
3. Old bank never notified me that I had 2 $16 fees for bounced 'checks'
4. I eventually learn that I got reported to CHEX systems when WF tells me I have to close my account until the issue is fixed
5. I fix the issue - AOL pays the $32 in fees to my old bank and gets me removed from CHEX
6. I go back to WF to re-open my account - The manager has an attitude with me as if I were a child molester, and tells me as rudely as possible that I can't re-open my account. As a matter of fact, I can't have an account with Wells Fargo for 7 YEARS!

So over $32 in fees to a completely different bank, which wasn't my fault and which got cleared up successfully, they blacklist me for 7 years. Did they think I'd just be itching to come bank and do business with them? F*CK Wells Fargo. I will never ever do so much as a penny of business with them, and I warn anyone I can to avoid them.

Steigen		2012-07-09 10:57:28 PM

My wife is currently kicking the shiat out of stage IV non-Hodgkins (Large B cell) Lymphoma and our insurance (UHC) has been farking awesome...above and beyond type of personal service that has changed my view of managed healthcare.

That said, I have absolutely no idea how someone being sick should weigh on their farking mortgage. It's a loan payment...pay it or get out.

Life sucks, sorry.

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-09 10:58:03 PM

Gdalescrboz: Does she have to pay water bills? Electricity?

Utilities will gladly arranged payment plans for sick customers, also there are fund set aside to make sure people don't lose the utility.

Pro tip, stop letting your emotions control your decision making process

Stop thinking that everything is black and white and no one can ever have compassion for another.

RedVentrue		2012-07-09 10:58:06 PM

gilgigamesh: I want to feel bad for these people. OK, well I do, but I want to feel like there's a bad guy here, and that the bank is that bad guy, but then there's this quote:

"They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal. If they are trying to negotiate it down to half that, she is effectively asking Wells Fargo not only to take a loss on the interest payments, she's asking them the principal as well. Even if WF is willing to work with them, there's just no freaking way that can happen. Banks are not in business to subsidize your home purchase.

Much as I hate to say it, these folks need to just cut their losses and move into a section 8 rental.

Most likely the house will be going back to the bank anyway when she dies. Seems to me that that the bank wants to squeeze as much money as they can out of her while she's still breathing. Some people have a heart of gold; cold, hard, and yellow.

eldie		2012-07-09 10:58:49 PM

This case is a perfect example of how our health care system is so different and I believe inferior to the health care systems of other Western countries. People can lose their homes and fall into bankruptcy for a myriad of reasons such as incurring large amounts of credit card debt, gambling and other addictions, long term unemployment. Since we have about 40 million people who lack any health insurance, and countless others who are under insured and like this woman have to pay astronomical co-payments, or their insurance does not cover pre existing conditions, or places maximum limits on the amount they will pay out annually or lifetime for an individuals health care;
we are the only Western country where large number of citizens lose their homes and fall into bankruptcy when they are afflicted with a costly disease, or a serious injury;

The Affordable Health Care Act provides remedies for the above serious deficiencies in our health care system; enabling millions of Americans to afford health insurance and not live in fear that they are an illness away from foreclosure and bankruptcy

I didn't quite catch what the Republican plan was to address this problem if they manage to repeal "Obamacare". Maybe someone could enlighten me on the Republican plan...

Tanthalas39		2012-07-09 10:59:21 PM

If the idiots in this thread had their way, zero new drugs would be developed.

dr_iacovone		2012-07-09 11:00:25 PM

gilgigamesh: Cyberluddite: gilgigamesh: I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal.

Unless you have inside info on this particular loan, your statement seems likely to be 180 degrees wrong. Unless they've been paying on the loan for many years, actually the vast majority of the payment is interest, not principal. For example, a $170K 30-year loan at 5% APR would result in a montly payment of around $912, and the first payment would be $708 in interest and only $204 in principal. Over the years, if the scheduled payments are made, the ratio comes down, but if you look at the table in that link you'll see that it's not until 14+ years into the loan that the percentage of the monthly payment that goes to prinicipal reduction exceeds the percentage that goes to interest.

I'm not saying that Wells Fargo needs to foregive the loan or reduce the payments in this case--I'm just saying your basic point seems incorrect here.

I'm assuming they've been living there a while. They don't seem like new home buyers.

Wondering if the mortgage payment also adds in escrow on the property tax and insurance payments as well.

Yea, sure maybe they could float some of the interest and what not - but if they do escrow on those other costs as well, the payment they are willing to make may not cover those additional add ons. You know, the county needs their money, and the insurance company needs theirs, etc, etc.

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-09 11:00:27 PM

Steigen: That said, I have absolutely no idea how someone being sick should weigh on their farking mortgage. It's a loan payment...pay it or get out.

Here's an idea, have some compassion and just let them pay what they can. The bank can legally do that. Indeed it can suspend interest accruing, it can kick down the principle. And in any case the bank is on a course that'll cost it quite a bit of money.

RedVentrue		2012-07-09 11:00:27 PM

wambu: The bank agrees to give you money and you agree to give it back. It's amazing how many people think that the giving back part is optional.

This unfortunate woman needs to be reaching out to her community for help, not the bank.

The bank agrees to give you debt, and you pay it back 500%.

RedVentrue		2012-07-09 11:02:09 PM

Tanthalas39: If the idiots in this thread had their way, zero new drugs would be developed.

Right, because no drugs were developed before Pharma started gouging people.

T-Servo		2012-07-09 11:03:18 PM

fusillade762: She should just go to a nearby Wells Fargo and stick up the place. Either she gets away with a bunch of money or she goes to jail where she gets free healthcare and room & board. It's a win-win!

That pretty well encapsulates how warped our values have become.

Tanthalas39		2012-07-09 11:03:34 PM

RedVentrue: wambu: The bank agrees to give you money and you agree to give it back. It's amazing how many people think that the giving back part is optional.

This unfortunate woman needs to be reaching out to her community for help, not the bank.

The bank agrees to give you debt, and you pay it back 500%.

Is the interest part not in the papers you sign?

Tanthalas39		2012-07-09 11:04:38 PM

RedVentrue: Tanthalas39: If the idiots in this thread had their way, zero new drugs would be developed.

Right, because no drugs were developed before Pharma started gouging people.

Spoken like a true idiot. Thanks for stepping up to identify yourself.

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-09 11:04:50 PM

RedVentrue: Right, because no drugs were developed before Pharma started gouging people.

And remember no drugs are developed in countries with universal coverage

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-09 11:05:25 PM

Tanthalas39: Spoken like a true idiot. Thanks for stepping up to identify yourself.

So what do you think is required for drugs to be developed?

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 11:09:59 PM

elffster: The Only Jeff: Jument: This is not the bank being evil. It's the American healthcare system sticking it to the sick who can't afford their treatments. By all means though, continue to reject universal healthcare and blame a bank. I guess that's easier to live with.

It's not the heathcare system sticking it to anyone. Chemo is expensive. It's difficult to make, research is expensive, and it's not as reliable as meds for chronic conditions like asthma or high blood pressure. Universal healthcare just means everyone pays more for healthcare. You will cover more people but at a higher cost. At 15.7 trillion dollars of debt and climbing, a lot of people don't think that's the best way forward right now.

Then dont start pointless expensive wars, hand out Billions to Wall Street, and other stupid shiat.

I didn't do any of those things.

Gdalescrboz		2012-07-09 11:11:15 PM

WhyteRaven74

Gdalescrboz: Does she have to pay water bills? Electricity?

Utilities will gladly arranged payment plans for sick customers, also there are fund set aside to make sure people don't lose the utility.

Pro tip, stop letting your emotions control your decision making process

Stop thinking that everything is black and white and no one can ever have compassion for another.

Why dont you set up a morgage payment fund for her then? How about having a little compassion and helping her? Ha, fat chance. You guys will just sit on here and biatch and moan about Wells Fargo being assholes. You know what the worst thing about peopel like you is? You expect everyone else to "show compassion" but will do nothing more than calling out other people about a "lack of compassion." I feel terrible for her, but ya know what? I would take someone into my home or help pay their rent before i demanded a company foot the bill for a product that was purchased from them. You feel like the system is out to get everyone and want to change it, and ruin everythign for everyone else, rather than seeign it for what it is, a friggin bad luck story.

Debeo Summa Credo		2012-07-09 11:11:48 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: djkutch: I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

I understand your concern. I suggest reaching into your own pockets and helping out this woman in need, since you can't count on corporations to do the Christian thing.

Right. Our healthcare system is farked up. This lady should be getting free healthcare. But since there aren't any magical healthcare fairies somebody has to pay. That somebody is everybody else. Who's first?

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 11:12:09 PM

WhyteRaven74: The Only Jeff: . Universal healthcare just means everyone pays more for healthcare.

that would be why healthcare costs less in every country with universal coverage....

I'm assuming other countries have a lower raid of diabetes, obesity, asthma, etc. than we do. Could be wrong.

stiletto_the_wise		2012-07-09 11:13:43 PM

The Only Jeff: Jument: This is not the bank being evil. It's the American healthcare system sticking it to the sick who can't afford their treatments. By all means though, continue to reject universal healthcare and blame a bank. I guess that's easier to live with.

It's not the heathcare system sticking it to anyone. Chemo is expensive. It's difficult to make, research is expensive, and it's not as reliable as meds for chronic conditions like asthma or high blood pressure. Universal healthcare just means everyone pays more for healthcare. You will cover more people but at a higher cost. At 15.7 trillion dollars of debt and climbing, a lot of people don't think that's the best way forward right now.

This is demonstrably false. Look at cost/person in any other country's socialized system.

Tanthalas39		2012-07-09 11:16:59 PM

stiletto_the_wise: The Only Jeff: Jument: This is not the bank being evil. It's the American healthcare system sticking it to the sick who can't afford their treatments. By all means though, continue to reject universal healthcare and blame a bank. I guess that's easier to live with.

It's not the heathcare system sticking it to anyone. Chemo is expensive. It's difficult to make, research is expensive, and it's not as reliable as meds for chronic conditions like asthma or high blood pressure. Universal healthcare just means everyone pays more for healthcare. You will cover more people but at a higher cost. At 15.7 trillion dollars of debt and climbing, a lot of people don't think that's the best way forward right now.

This is demonstrably false. Look at cost/person in any other country's socialized system.

*looks*

Not demonstrably false.

Debeo Summa Credo		2012-07-09 11:17:12 PM

Tanthalas39: RedVentrue: wambu: The bank agrees to give you money and you agree to give it back. It's amazing how many people think that the giving back part is optional.

This unfortunate woman needs to be reaching out to her community for help, not the bank.

The bank agrees to give you debt, and you pay it back 500%.

Is the interest part not in the papers you sign?

Apparently he thinks banks should lend money for mortgages interest free. Who cares about the time value of money? They'll make it up on volume.

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 11:17:28 PM

WhyteRaven74: Steigen: That said, I have absolutely no idea how someone being sick should weigh on their farking mortgage. It's a loan payment...pay it or get out.

Here's an idea, have some compassion and just let them pay what they can. The bank can legally do that. Indeed it can suspend interest accruing, it can kick down the principle. And in any case the bank is on a course that'll cost it quite a bit of money.

Why not just let this woman receive your services for free? If you work at a restaurant give her free food, if you work at a refinery give her free gas. Charity starts at home.

Don't Troll Me Bro!		2012-07-09 11:17:37 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: djkutch: I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

I understand your concern. I suggest reaching into your own pockets and helping out this woman in need, since you can't count on corporations to do the Christian thing.

In fairness to corporations, you usually can't count on Christians to do the Christian thing either.

Tanthalas39		2012-07-09 11:17:42 PM

WhyteRaven74: Tanthalas39: Spoken like a true idiot. Thanks for stepping up to identify yourself.

So what do you think is required for drugs to be developed?

Incentive.

Duke_leto_Atredes		2012-07-09 11:17:43 PM

Fark you, pay me!

Mambo Bananapatch		2012-07-09 11:19:39 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: There was a short window of opportunity at the beginning of Obama's term where he was riding high in the polls and had huge amounts of support and the Republicans were flailing wildly.

Republicans flailing wildly just gets their base all excited. They are not normal, thinking people.

Obama did have a chance, but he was stupid to think that his desire for bipartisanship was shared by anybody across the aisle. If you are not going to play hardball you are not going to do well against Republicans.

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-09 11:22:17 PM

Gdalescrboz: You expect everyone else to "show compassion" but will do nothing more than calling out other people about a "lack of compassion

If I had any lawyer friends in North Carolina, I'd be getting in touch to see if either they or someone they know couldn't do something to help the woman out. As it is, I've been looking up to see what else there is to do.

The Only Jeff: I'm assuming other countries have a lower raid of diabetes, obesity, asthma, etc. than we do. Could be wrong.

Obesity, yeah, but not necessarily by a huge amount. But it's not the incidence of such conditions that matters much when it comes to heath care costs in places with universal coverage.

whatshisname		2012-07-09 11:22:35 PM

1. Life is not fair
2. Universal healthcare should be a right

Keizer_Ghidorah		2012-07-09 11:23:11 PM

eldie: This case is a perfect example of how our health care system is so different and I believe inferior to the health care systems of other Western countries. People can lose their homes and fall into bankruptcy for a myriad of reasons such as incurring large amounts of credit card debt, gambling and other addictions, long term unemployment. Since we have about 40 million people who lack any health insurance, and countless others who are under insured and like this woman have to pay astronomical co-payments, or their insurance does not cover pre existing conditions, or places maximum limits on the amount they will pay out annually or lifetime for an individuals health care;
we are the only Western country where large number of citizens lose their homes and fall into bankruptcy when they are afflicted with a costly disease, or a serious injury;

The Affordable Health Care Act provides remedies for the above serious deficiencies in our health care system; enabling millions of Americans to afford health insurance and not live in fear that they are an illness away from foreclosure and bankruptcy

I didn't quite catch what the Republican plan was to address this problem if they manage to repeal "Obamacare". Maybe someone could enlighten me on the Republican plan...

Bootstrappy, praise Jesus, and blame it on the homogays and uppity women.

skullkrusher		2012-07-09 11:24:14 PM

WhyteRaven74: If I had any lawyer friends in North Carolina, I'd be getting in touch to see if either they or someone they know couldn't do something to help the woman out. As it is, I've been looking up to see what else there is to do.

Here's a link where you can donate directly to help her pay her mortgage

skullkrusher		2012-07-09 11:27:09 PM

skullkrusher: WhyteRaven74: If I had any lawyer friends in North Carolina, I'd be getting in touch to see if either they or someone they know couldn't do something to help the woman out. As it is, I've been looking up to see what else there is to do.

Here's a link where you can donate directly to help her pay her mortgage

that's apparently broken...

Link

seventypercent		2012-07-09 11:27:19 PM

Compared to other developed nations, Americans pay ridiculous amounts of money for health care and we have a lower life expectancy to boot. But that doesn't matter, because we are still the best. And if you disagree, we will farking kill you.

Urinal Cake Mix		2012-07-09 11:27:19 PM

mitchcumstein1: serial_crusher: Yes, even people with cancer have to pay their bills. What a world we live in.

Really, I feel bad for them. If they were people I knew personally and didn't act all entitled, I'd be giving them money to help out.

It's almost like we should do something about the cost of health care in this country. $1,000 for the medication to try and stay alive is farking criminal in my opinion.

This woman is going to die. It's going to be painful and horrible. There's good business, and there's good common sense. Wells Fargo should probably use the common sense on this one.

Bingo. My mom's chemo treatments were $25k EACH, before insurance. Oh yeah, and she had six rounds (which is sort of on the lower end, so I've been told). Thank god she's got phenomenal health insurance - her max out of pocket per year is only $2500 or something like that. The insurance company "only" gets billed $12k for each treatment, which makes me wonder where the fark the inflation is coming from.

I feel for this woman, because I know how hard it must be on her and her family. Not everyone has a job that allows them so much paid sick leave. But what kind of shiat insurance does she had that still causes her to pay $1,100 a month in medication? Does she even have any? Not to mention where the hell does she live that a mortgage is less than my rent by $400?

Gdalescrboz		2012-07-09 11:28:14 PM

WhyteRaven74

Gdalescrboz: You expect everyone else to "show compassion" but will do nothing more than calling out other people about a "lack of compassion

If I had any lawyer friends in North Carolina, I'd be getting in touch to see if either they or someone they know couldn't do something to help the woman out. As it is, I've been looking up to see what else there is to do.

Oh, so sue. How helpful you are. And i would have to ask you not to. Why? Becasue if people are able to get out of paying their morgage if they get cancer, guess what? Everyone who has/had cancer will be unable to get a morgage loan. Please take a second and think of the consequences of your actions before you get all self-righteous on us. I dont want to have to listen to you lecture everyone on how evil morgage companies are for not lending money to people who dont have to pay it back

thisisyourbrainonFark		2012-07-09 11:28:31 PM

T-Servo: [cinewiki.wikispaces.com image 400x307]
Here, Ed. You know, you remember last year when things weren't going so well, and you couldn't make your payments? You didn't lose your house, did you? Do you think Potter would have let you keep it? Can't you understand what's happening here? Don't you see what's happening?

[www.williamkwolfrum.com image 375x216]
wambu: The bank agrees to give you money and you agree to give it back. It's amazing how many people think that the giving back part is optional.

This right here, this is well done. Kudos, should be posted as much as possible in the Politics thread.

Also, fark cancer.

ThrobblefootSpectre		2012-07-09 11:28:48 PM

gilgigamesh: Much as I hate to say it, these folks need to just cut their losses and move into a section 8 rental.

Yeah this. As someone who has lived in a cheap apartment all my life and never owned a house, I'm having trouble empathizing with that (and only that) portion of her troubles. Yes, the cancer is awful, yes your medication costs are high. But in this particular article you are complaining about losing material stuff that have I never had in the first place. You may as well be biatching to me that you will lose your mercedes and have to buy a honda. Get your priorities straight, and concentrate on your health.

somemoron		2012-07-09 11:28:52 PM

Gdalescrboz: Are you suggesting she shouldnt have to pay her morgage? I mean, if you are goign to let that slide, where do you draw the line? Does she have to pay water bills? Electricity? Food? Cable? I'm serious, where do you draw the line? Additionally, why is it the morgage she gets to skip out on? Why not taxes on income? I cant wait for your answer, it should be a doosy. It will be jam packed full of valid and logical points im sure. Pro tip, stop letting your emotions control your decision making process

OK, so we'll go with the emotionless, logical doosy of an answer:

Stage 4 cancer patients usually do not live long
Patient is willing to make lower payments
If foreclosed upon, no payments at all
House will sit empty for a period of time, possibly longer than patient has to live. Empty house will still require upkeep, paid for by WF
Ejecting dying person is extremely bad publicity, especially given that WF -PAYS- to have a house sit empty, waiting for someone to buy it.
There is no win for WF except to accept smaller payments and thereby gain HUGE public goodwill.

Hows that?

And now for the emotional part: Go fark yourself, Gordon Gecko.

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 11:29:31 PM

WhyteRaven74:
The Only Jeff: I'm assuming other countries have a lower raid of diabetes, obesity, asthma, etc. than we do. Could be wrong.

Obesity, yeah, but not necessarily by a huge amount. But it's not the incidence of such conditions that matters much when it comes to heath care costs in places with universal coverage.

I would expect it to be a huge part of it. Considering most of health care costs from things like that. Link We have a rate of obesity almost 33% higher than the first European country with socialized health care. And at $1850 dollars per year per person that's a lot Link

Saturn5		2012-07-09 11:30:36 PM

It's a horrible situation, but Wells Fargo isn't at fault here. Sure, they could be more compassionate and I think they should. This is bad publicity if nothing else. There might be a refi program she can take advantage of, or failing that, they'll have to sell the house. It sucks, but cancer sucks a lot more. They've been dealing with this for years. It's not like the bank suddenly decided to be an ass one day. They've known they can't keep up the house payments with the medical expenses for years.

RedVentrue: wambu: The bank agrees to give you money and you agree to give it back. It's amazing how many people think that the giving back part is optional.

This unfortunate woman needs to be reaching out to her community for help, not the bank.

The bank agrees to give you debt, and you pay it back 500%.

Your bank sucks.

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-09 11:31:29 PM

Tanthalas39: Incentive.

So drug companies in countries where prices are kept lower have no incentive to develop new drugs?

The Only Jeff: Why not just let this woman receive your services for free?

If the bank just let the woman and her husband pay what they can, they'd be out what, $5300 or so a year. Foreclosing will cost the bank more than that. Quite a bit more once it's all said and done. Now if Wells Fargo were run by people who actually understand banking, they'd know that, they would much rather get something, than end up in the hole and with a house that may not sell for quite some time, thus losing them revenue. Alas Wells Fargo isn't exactly run by people who are bankers in any sense of the word.

thisisyourbrainonFark		2012-07-09 11:33:58 PM

Urinal Cake Mix: mitchcumstein1: serial_crusher: Yes, even people with cancer have to pay their bills. What a world we live in.

Really, I feel bad for them. If they were people I knew personally and didn't act all entitled, I'd be giving them money to help out.

It's almost like we should do something about the cost of health care in this country. $1,000 for the medication to try and stay alive is farking criminal in my opinion.

This woman is going to die. It's going to be painful and horrible. There's good business, and there's good common sense. Wells Fargo should probably use the common sense on this one.

Bingo. My mom's chemo treatments were $25k EACH, before insurance. Oh yeah, and she had six rounds (which is sort of on the lower end, so I've been told). Thank god she's got phenomenal health insurance - her max out of pocket per year is only $2500 or something like that. The insurance company "only" gets billed $12k for each treatment, which makes me wonder where the fark the inflation is coming from.

I feel for this woman, because I know how hard it must be on her and her family. Not everyone has a job that allows them so much paid sick leave. But what kind of shiat insurance does she had that still causes her to pay $1,100 a month in medication? Does she even have any? Not to mention where the hell does she live that a mortgage is less than my rent by $400?

Obviously one of those medical marijuana freaks. Probably growing White Widow near a poorly funded school, selling that sweet jane and smoking it 'sted of absorbing the Lord's pain as He intended.

/damn this is a depressing world

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-09 11:34:40 PM

skullkrusher: Link

thanks :)

The Only Jeff: And at $1850 dollars per year per person that's a lot Link

If everyone had insurance and could get routine medical care, it would actually cost a ton less to take care of.

DrPainMD		2012-07-09 11:34:42 PM

vrax		2012-07-09 11:35:01 PM

Ah yes, another bank longing to foreclose on a home so that it can turn into an empty, weed infested, blight on the neighborhood. So much better than trying to temporarily modify the current mortgage. Oh well, some things are impossible. It's easier to cure cancer, so she should just wait for that.

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 11:35:06 PM

WhyteRaven74: The Only Jeff: Why not just let this woman receive your services for free?

If the bank just let the woman and her husband pay what they can, they'd be out what, $5300 or so a year. Foreclosing will cost the bank more than that. Quite a bit more once it's all said and done. Now if Wells Fargo were run by people who actually understand banking, they'd know that, they would much rather get something, than end up in the hole and with a house that may not sell for quite some time, thus losing them revenue. Alas Wells Fargo isn't exactly run by people who are bankers in any sense of the word.

Link

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 11:35:53 PM

Dammit so much.
Link

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-09 11:36:35 PM

DrPainMD: So, everybody who works making chemo drugs should be paid minimum wage, or possibly less?

Funny the people who make chemo drugs in places like France, Germany and England have no problem being paid quite well. In fact the people who do the actual making of the drugs, may well get paid better than their American counterparts. BTW American drug companies spend more on marketing than R&D.

DrPainMD		2012-07-09 11:37:59 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Gwendolyn: "They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

And she thinks Wells Fargo is the problem?

Seriously, THIS^

/that's insane, especially when the same meds in almost any other country would cost a fraction of that

Like mitchcumstein1, you don't seem to understand the definition of the word "cost."

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 11:38:11 PM

WhyteRaven74: DrPainMD: So, everybody who works making chemo drugs should be paid minimum wage, or possibly less?

Funny the people who make chemo drugs in places like France, Germany and England have no problem being paid quite well. In fact the people who do the actual making of the drugs, may well get paid better than their American counterparts. BTW American drug companies spend more on marketing than R&D.

WhyteRaven74: DrPainMD: So, everybody who works making chemo drugs should be paid minimum wage, or possibly less?

Funny the people who make chemo drugs in places like France, Germany and England have no problem being paid quite well. In fact the people who do the actual making of the drugs, may well get paid better than their American counterparts. BTW American drug companies spend more on marketing than R&D.

The Only Jeff		2012-07-09 11:38:58 PM

The Only Jeff: WhyteRaven74: DrPainMD: So, everybody who works making chemo drugs should be paid minimum wage, or possibly less?

Funny the people who make chemo drugs in places like France, Germany and England have no problem being paid quite well. In fact the people who do the actual making of the drugs, may well get paid better than their American counterparts. BTW American drug companies spend more on marketing than R&D.

WhyteRaven74: DrPainMD: So, everybody who works making chemo drugs should be paid minimum wage, or possibly less?

Funny the people who make chemo drugs in places like France, Germany and England have no problem being paid quite well. In fact the people who do the actual making of the drugs, may well get paid better than their American counterparts. BTW American drug companies spend more on marketing than R&D.

I swear to Christ I'm going to stop drinking before posting.
(citation needed)

Jument		2012-07-09 11:40:29 PM

KIA: Jument: continue to reject universal health

How does that lower the cost of anything exactly?

Oh, it doesn't get lowered, it actually just transfers the cost to other people you say?

Well, as long as it's "other" people, then that's just fine. Wait, you say all of the costs of all of the sick people are going to be taken off of them and placed on everyone who's left?

Wow. So every illness of every kind everywhere is suddenly a matter of both national concern and personal concern because YOU are now going to pay for it. All of the herpes, all of the gout, all of the pinkeye, all of the strep throat, all of the diabetes, the heart disease, cancer, AIDS, age-related degeneration, pregnancy, mental illness, OCD, ADD, Every. Single. Illness. Your personal pocket.

We got helmet laws after driving insurance became mandatory. Anyone still think there won't be "broccoli and tofu" legislation for everyone in the near future? Another prohibition for alcohol? Rationed sugar intake? It's all for the common good, citizen.

On the bright side, we'll probably get a more rational draft that sends the weak and ill to fight and die instead of the strong and healthy. This should keep wars much shorter and less violent.

Have you considered that most first world nations do this today, and have done so for a long time now?

I'm a "have". I live in the US and make out like a bandit. I get premium healthcare through my employer and a low tax rate (yes, America has a low tax rate). But I'm still in favor of universal healthcare, because it's the right goddamn thing to do in a civilized society.

thisisyourbrainonFark		2012-07-09 11:41:34 PM

Also:

We will be down for about 10-15 minutes after midnight ET tonight for some electrical work.

www.tooconservative.com

DrPainMD		2012-07-09 11:42:01 PM

Came to read a hundred posts, by people who will not give this lady a dime, bashing Wells Fargo and the drug companies for being heartless. Left satisfied.

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-09 11:44:00 PM

DrPainMD: Came to read a hundred posts, by people who will not give this lady a dime, bashing Wells Fargo and the drug companies for being heartless. Left satisfied.

Well, Wells Fargo deserves it, and funny how drug companies in other places have no problem making mountains of money even if the drugs cost a lot less.

cuzsis		2012-07-09 11:44:53 PM

js34603		2012-07-09 11:45:13 PM

Gdalescrboz: Oh, so sue. How helpful you are. And i would have to ask you not to. Why? Becasue if people are able to get out of paying their morgage if they get cancer, guess what? Everyone who has/had cancer will be unable to get a morgage loan. Please take a second and think of the consequences of your actions before you get all self-righteous on us. I dont want to have to listen to you lecture everyone on how evil morgage companies are for not lending money to people who dont have to pay it back

DrPainMD		2012-07-09 11:45:48 PM

WhyteRaven74: DrPainMD: So, everybody who works making chemo drugs should be paid minimum wage, or possibly less?

Funny the people who make chemo drugs in places like France, Germany and England have no problem being paid quite well. In fact the people who do the actual making of the drugs, may well get paid better than their American counterparts. BTW American drug companies spend more on marketing than R&D.

You seem to have totally missed my point (no surprise). The poster I was responding to was whining about the high cost of drugs. The only way to lower the cost is to lower the wages paid to the producers.

KIA		2012-07-09 11:47:15 PM

whatshisname: Universal healthcare should be a right

So... you think you have a right to have another person give up years of their life to go to advanced school, incur crippling student loans or debt to learn cutting-edge lifesaving techniques, carry horrifically expensive malpractice insurance, work grueling hours for ungrateful people then work on you for free?

Good luck with that plan.

Gdalescrboz		2012-07-09 11:47:27 PM

somemoron

Gdalescrboz: Are you suggesting she shouldnt have to pay her morgage? I mean, if you are goign to let that slide, where do you draw the line? Does she have to pay water bills? Electricity? Food? Cable? I'm serious, where do you draw the line? Additionally, why is it the morgage she gets to skip out on? Why not taxes on income? I cant wait for your answer, it should be a doosy. It will be jam packed full of valid and logical points im sure. Pro tip, stop letting your emotions control your decision making process

OK, so we'll go with the emotionless, logical doosy of an answer:

Stage 4 cancer patients usually do not live long
Patient is willing to make lower payments
If foreclosed upon, no payments at all
House will sit empty for a period of time, possibly longer than patient has to live. Empty house will still require upkeep, paid for by WF
Ejecting dying person is extremely bad publicity, especially given that WF -PAYS- to have a house sit empty, waiting for someone to buy it.
There is no win for WF except to accept smaller payments and thereby gain HUGE public goodwill.

Hows that?

And now for the emotional part: Go fark yourself, Gordon Gecko.

That's fine. Good luck getting a loan after you get cancer though. And now for my emotional imput. Thank you for your imput. While egregriously off, I appreciate at least an effort. I especially liek the part where you used bad publicity as a crux for your argument. You know you made a very good argument when you have to resort to "you can't do that, it will look bad." Pretty much nothign short of blackmail

DrPainMD		2012-07-09 11:47:27 PM

WhyteRaven74: DrPainMD: Came to read a hundred posts, by people who will not give this lady a dime, bashing Wells Fargo and the drug companies for being heartless. Left satisfied.

Well, Wells Fargo deserves it, and funny how drug companies in other places have no problem making mountains of money even if the drugs cost a lot less.

There you go again, using the word "cost," seemingly without the slightest clue as to what the word means.

cuzsis		2012-07-09 11:48:08 PM

ArkAngel: serial_crusher: coco ebert: gilgigamesh: I want to feel bad for these people. OK, well I do, but I want to feel like there's a bad guy here, and that the bank is that bad guy, but then there's this quote:

"They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal. If they are trying to negotiate it down to half that, she is effectively asking Wells Fargo not only to take a loss on the interest payments, she's asking them the principal as well. Even if WF is willing to work with them, there's just no freaking way that can happen. Banks are not in business to subsidize your home purchase.

Much as I hate to say it, these folks need to just cut their losses and move into a section 8 rental.

Ha! You know how long the waiting list is for section 8?

Is it longer than 4 years?

The waiting list is full in my city, last I knew when they were still taking new people it was over two years

For a second I thought you lived where I do...but we're about 2,500 miles apart.

cuzsis		2012-07-09 11:49:54 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: djkutch: I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

I understand your concern. I suggest reaching into your own pockets and helping out this woman in need, since you can't count on corporations to do the Christian thing.

I'm not sure how much my pocket lint is going to help her...

/why are people mad at the banks and healthcare industry again?
//that's where the money is

mitchcumstein1		2012-07-09 11:51:08 PM

DrPainMD: mitchcumstein1: serial_crusher: Yes, even people with cancer have to pay their bills. What a world we live in.

Really, I feel bad for them. If they were people I knew personally and didn't act all entitled, I'd be giving them money to help out.

It's almost like we should do something about the cost of health care in this country. $1,000 for the medication to try and stay alive is farking criminal in my opinion.

So, everybody who works making chemo drugs should be paid minimum wage, or possibly less?

Yeah, it's the people making the chemo drugs that are the reason it costs that much, not massive drug companies making huge profits. That's what it is.

Curious		2012-07-09 11:52:45 PM

gilgigamesh: The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal.

there is no way to know that. if they are ten years in it sure isn't. year 18 of a 20 year note probably. year 18 of a 30 year note -- oh hell no.

if she is as sick as it looks wells fargo would be better off taking what they can for 6 months then booting the husband when she dies.

MaudlinMutantMollusk		2012-07-09 11:55:38 PM

DrPainMD: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Gwendolyn: "They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

And she thinks Wells Fargo is the problem?

Seriously, THIS^

/that's insane, especially when the same meds in almost any other country would cost a fraction of that

Like mitchcumstein1, you don't seem to understand the definition of the word "cost."

Well then, will you please enlighten me as to how the inflated cost of medications in this country as opposed to other countries around the world is justified?

Gyrfalcon		2012-07-10 12:00:20 AM

Bucky Katt		2012-07-10 12:32:13 AM

Wells Fargo is the victim here. How can they be expected to create more jobs if this deadbeat won't pay up?

Bucky Katt		2012-07-10 12:35:34 AM

Walosi		2012-07-10 12:39:53 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk		2012-07-10 12:40:13 AM

eldie: This case is a perfect example of how our health care system is so different and I believe inferior to the health care systems of other Western countries. People can lose their homes and fall into bankruptcy for a myriad of reasons such as incurring large amounts of credit card debt, gambling and other addictions, long term unemployment. Since we have about 40 million people who lack any health insurance, and countless others who are under insured and like this woman have to pay astronomical co-payments, or their insurance does not cover pre existing conditions, or places maximum limits on the amount they will pay out annually or lifetime for an individuals health care;
we are the only Western country where large number of citizens lose their homes and fall into bankruptcy when they are afflicted with a costly disease, or a serious injury;

The Affordable Health Care Act provides remedies for the above serious deficiencies in our health care system; enabling millions of Americans to afford health insurance and not live in fear that they are an illness away from foreclosure and bankruptcy

I didn't quite catch what the Republican plan was to address this problem if they manage to repeal "Obamacare". Maybe someone could enlighten me on the Republican plan...

ACA WAS the Republican health care plan

/and they need to be repeatedly and continuously reminded of this fact

Gyrfalcon		2012-07-10 12:41:35 AM

Now, if anyone wants a thumbnail sketch of how people become poor and homeless in America, this is it.

Here is a lady and her husband who bought a house they could totally afford when they bought it. Then lo and behold, the lady comes down with a horrible disease she had no reason to expect she would get, and it rapidly became worse. Now she has to pay for exorbitant medical expenses AND a mortgage which she was able to manage before she got sick.

So all you fools out there who natter about how people shouldn't get anything until they can "afford it"--even when you can afford it, something bad can happen out of the blue and make you poor and homeless. You can never plan for all eventualities.

Nezray		2012-07-10 12:42:07 AM

Wait... Are you guys really implying that Wells Fargo should just give her money for no reason?

firefly212		2012-07-10 12:47:32 AM

The Only Jeff: Jument: This is not the bank being evil. It's the American healthcare system sticking it to the sick who can't afford their treatments. By all means though, continue to reject universal healthcare and blame a bank. I guess that's easier to live with.

It's not the heathcare system sticking it to anyone. Chemo is expensive. It's difficult to make, research is expensive, and it's not as reliable as meds for chronic conditions like asthma or high blood pressure. Universal healthcare just means everyone pays more for healthcare. You will cover more people but at a higher cost. At 15.7 trillion dollars of debt and climbing, a lot of people don't think that's the best way forward right now.

The concept of prevention and limiting vectoring keeping costs down is lost on many... but I suppose that's also for another thread.

Scorpio Rex		2012-07-10 12:48:09 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: The lengths you guys will go to defend your guy.

Are you really going to say that Obamacare is a huge victory?

Contrast "your" guy's war on a sovereign nation, based on lies told to the American people that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands and the downfall of our economy, to "our" guys attempt to give every American affordable health care while reducing waste. Go....

mofa		2012-07-10 12:49:47 AM

For much of the last fifty years, the (socialist) NIH doled out research money to subsidize research. Now we're so bootstrappy that we don't need no stinking NIH. Or EPA. Or education. Or civilization.

firefly212		2012-07-10 12:50:35 AM

Nezray: Wait... Are you guys really implying that Wells Fargo should just give her money for no reason?

I'm implying that if they wait for her to die, they'll still have all the money she's already paid, and they'll have a house to sell to cover the remainder of her debt, whereas if they kicked her out, the house would probably remain unoccupied and part of the record glut of vacant bank-owned housing already on the market. Even if they just put her on a rent plan at a way reduced rate and told her they would delay foreclosing for a maximum 24 months, it's still not like they'd lose anything.

Gdalescrboz		2012-07-10 12:53:04 AM

Haha is this guy a shark or what? Compassion to him means that for $2 he'd beat you over the head with a pool cue until you got detached retinas.

Sleep easy tonight d-bag. You are technically correct that Wells Fargo doesn't have to do shiat for this woman. They are free to boot her dying ass out into the street and begin the foreclosure process, which will easily cost them more than just letting her stay there until she dies or moves out.

Sadly for you, since this has now gone public, civilized human beings unlike yourself are going to catch wind of it and pressure Wells Fargo to do the right thing, so don't be surprised if they finally make the correct moral and financial decision and work something out with her. And somehow people with cancer will still be able to get mortgages and the world won't end when a corporation actually does the right thing...eventually.

You are also missing several of these...'t'. I'm trying hard to be surprised you don't know how to spell mortgage.

Or, ya know, if you are upset by this womans situation, you could lend her a hand. The issue isn't that i wouldnt like to see somethig worked out. The issue is that people like you, and several other on here, EXPECT WF to cut her payments. You know what, WF might do something "moral," as you call it, and give her the house or cut her payments(not sure how thats moral but to each their own). But you know what, that will just be save face in front of people that don't have the ability to see the causes of their short sighted sentiments a week down the road. WF will implament a policy along the lines of not making loans to people with cancer else they be flamed in the webs and risk "bad publicity." I dont know what world you live where blanket policies aren't made in the wake of highly publicized incidents but it's not in the US, it happens daily. Kids can't take meds to school because of such things. Stores aren't allowed to stop thieves because of such things. I can't go through airport security without having my dong stroked because of such things. If you think for one second there wont be changes in policy in the wake of WF being pressured into making a deal with this woman then you are nothing short of delusional. Not once have i said i didnt want this woman to work something out, despite the many efforts to state otherwise. I've simply stated pressure to force WF to do so will end in long term policy changes that will hurt the whole of society.

Contrabulous Flabtraption		2012-07-10 12:54:36 AM

Maybe this woman should have made sure she had adequate health insurance prior to purchasing a house - you know, in case she got ill and couldn't afford health care bills and a mortgage.

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-10 12:55:28 AM

Scorpio Rex: AverageAmericanGuy: The lengths you guys will go to defend your guy.

Are you really going to say that Obamacare is a huge victory?

Contrast "your" guy's war on a sovereign nation, based on lies told to the American people that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands and the downfall of our economy, to "our" guys attempt to give every American affordable health care while reducing waste. Go....

I'm not afraid to admit the failures of my party or to speak out when I see them on the wrong side of history.

But you libs are too willing to overlook the failures of your guy. It's not because you're ideologues, though. It's because you're not ideologues, instead you are team players. You prefer to root for your guy at all costs and defend against all attacks instead of honestly examining the successes and failures of your team.

McCoy		2012-07-10 12:59:45 AM

Stage IV.....geez.

WhyteRaven74		2012-07-10 01:00:09 AM

DrPainMD: The only way to lower the cost is to lower the wages paid to the producers

Wrong.

mofa		2012-07-10 01:02:50 AM

Also, I hate Wells Fargo as much as the next guy, but I bought my house last year from someone forced to sell because cancer => bankruptcy. The story was more complicted than that, but I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that I got a good deal because of someone else's tragedy. However, I'm much more responsible, and I'll have a completely different experience (as long as I don't have the same experience).

But let's get back to the real issues: gay marriage and Katie and Tom's breakup.

TheOtherMisterP		2012-07-10 01:25:53 AM

djkutch: I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

Jesus would teach to honor your agreements. He definitely taught obedience to the law of the land ("Give unto Caeser that which is Caeser's...") So if these people voluntarily entered into a legally binding contract, I don't think Jesus would blame the bank.

Jument		2012-07-10 01:37:07 AM

TheOtherMisterP: djkutch: I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

Jesus would teach to honor your agreements. He definitely taught obedience to the law of the land ("Give unto Caeser that which is Caeser's...") So if these people voluntarily entered into a legally binding contract, I don't think Jesus would blame the bank.

Jesus would have healed her and given her a fish, and then overturned a few desks at BoA.

firefly212		2012-07-10 01:45:29 AM

TheOtherMisterP: djkutch: I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

Jesus would teach to honor your agreements. He definitely taught obedience to the law of the land ("Give unto Caeser that which is Caeser's...") So if these people voluntarily entered into a legally binding contract, I don't think Jesus would blame the bank.

Binding contract is not a moral question. The contract is legal, valid, and enforceable... that Jesus guy was all about questions of right v. wrong and treating people the way you wanted to be treated. You've confused him with Ayn Rand again.

sethen320		2012-07-10 01:49:37 AM

eldie		2012-07-10 01:53:43 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: eldie: This case is a perfect example of how our health care system is so different and I believe inferior to the health care systems of other Western countries. People can lose their homes and fall into bankruptcy for a myriad of reasons such as incurring large amounts of credit card debt, gambling and other addictions, long term unemployment. Since we have about 40 million people who lack any health insurance, and countless others who are under insured and like this woman have to pay astronomical co-payments, or their insurance does not cover pre existing conditions, or places maximum limits on the amount they will pay out annually or lifetime for an individuals health care;
we are the only Western country where large number of citizens lose their homes and fall into bankruptcy when they are afflicted with a costly disease, or a serious injury;

The Affordable Health Care Act provides remedies for the above serious deficiencies in our health care system; enabling millions of Americans to afford health insurance and not live in fear that they are an illness away from foreclosure and bankruptcy

I didn't quite catch what the Republican plan was to address this problem if they manage to repeal "Obamacare". Maybe someone could enlighten me on the Republican plan...

ACA WAS the Republican health care plan

/and they need to be repeatedly and continuously reminded of this fact

So true, MAUDLIN, but it was a Republican plan back when the Republican party still had moderate, reasonable conservatives as members -- not today's Republican party which is more and more an exclusionary party of the extreme right.

Gyrfalcon		2012-07-10 01:58:22 AM

mofa: Also, I hate Wells Fargo as much as the next guy, but I bought my house last year from someone forced to sell because cancer => bankruptcy. The story was more complicted than that, but I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that I got a good deal because of someone else's tragedy. However, I'm much more responsible, and I'll have a completely different experience (as long as I don't have the same experience).

But let's get back to the real issues: gay marriage and Katie and Tom's breakup.

You're implying that both this woman and whoever you bought your house from were somehow irresponsible for buying a house and then getting cancer? And that you're somehow more responsible because you'll never be so careless and lack the foresight to know you'll develop a terminal disease before doing something frivolous like buying a home?

Highroller48		2012-07-10 02:00:48 AM

This isn't WF's problem. This is America's problem.

So long as you folks continue to fail to see essential health care and common-sense preventative care as a basic human right in a developed nation, people will continue to suffer financially because of illness.

Your medical industry is fundamentally flawed because it is primarily based on a corporate, for-profit model. You wouldn't put up with an overriding dependence on for-profit policing, fire departments or military entities, so why is it okay as a basis for a health care system?

Free enterprise is a wonderful thing, but you have to draw the line when that free market directly costs lives.

Universal, single-payer health care isn't perfect, but it sure beats an alternative where people can go bankrupt from hospital bills for essential treatment. We have our issues, but bottom line: The total number of Canadian households who had to declare bankruptcy because of hospital bills in 2011 was...ZERO. That's also the number of people who were denied coverage or saw their basic rate increase because of prior or ongoing illness.

I'll gladly pay an effective overall tax rate of 20% on our total household income (that's just 20% on a combined 130+k, which is well above the national average income) if it means I never get a medical bill in the mail.

kkinnison		2012-07-10 02:07:13 AM

Wells Fargo can DIAF

When i was unemployed and doing small jobs to feed myself. One person I picked up thier condo for gave me a check for $15. I went to her bank (wells fargo) to cash it since I didn't have a checking account.

They wanted to charge me a $5 teller fee since i did not have an account with them. I told them that if that is their policy i never want to do business with them. But i wondered what they would have done if i wanted to cash a $5 check

RedVentrue		2012-07-10 02:40:58 AM

Gdalescrboz: WhyteRaven74

Gdalescrboz: Does she have to pay water bills? Electricity?

Utilities will gladly arranged payment plans for sick customers, also there are fund set aside to make sure people don't lose the utility.

Pro tip, stop letting your emotions control your decision making process

Stop thinking that everything is black and white and no one can ever have compassion for another.

Why dont you set up a morgage payment fund for her then? How about having a little compassion and helping her? Ha, fat chance. You guys will just sit on here and biatch and moan about Wells Fargo being assholes. You know what the worst thing about peopel like you is? You expect everyone else to "show compassion" but will do nothing more than calling out other people about a "lack of compassion." I feel terrible for her, but ya know what? I would take someone into my home or help pay their rent before i demanded a company foot the bill for a product that was purchased from them. You feel like the system is out to get everyone and want to change it, and ruin everythign for everyone else, rather than seeign it for what it is, a friggin bad luck story.

We have done things like that. Maybe you weren't paying attention. Maybe it's your turn.

eldie		2012-07-10 02:43:39 AM

Highroller48: This isn't WF's problem. This is America's problem.

So long as you folks continue to fail to see essential health care and common-sense preventative care as a basic human right in a developed nation, people will continue to suffer financially because of illness.

Your medical industry is fundamentally flawed because it is primarily based on a corporate, for-profit model. You wouldn't put up with an overriding dependence on for-profit policing, fire departments or military entities, so why is it okay as a basis for a health care system?

Free enterprise is a wonderful thing, but you have to draw the line when that free market directly costs lives.

Universal, single-payer health care isn't perfect, but it sure beats an alternative where people can go bankrupt from hospital bills for essential treatment. We have our issues, but bottom line: The total number of Canadian households who had to declare bankruptcy because of hospital bills in 2011 was...ZERO. That's also the number of people who were denied coverage or saw their basic rate increase because of prior or ongoing illness.

I'll gladly pay an effective overall tax rate of 20% on our total household income (that's just 20% on a combined 130+k, which is well above the national average income) if it means I never get a medical bill in the mail.

Well said High Roller48. We are the only Western nation that believes health care is more efficiently run by the market and insurance companies making millions of dollars in profits. I heard the previous Republican presidential candidate and governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee on his right wing radio show condemning the AHCA because of his contention that insuring all Americans will make it more difficult for upper income Americans like himself to contine to retain the best doctors and medical care since there will be millions of previously uninsured Americans who would be eligible to receive quality medical care, rather than receive no medical care or rely on costly emergency room care. Rather than seeing that the AHCA will result in millions of Americans receiving medical care when they previously could not as a postive and humane step for our country to undertake, Huckabee was only concerned that rich Americans like himself would have to share their top notch doctors with these undeserving previously uninsured Americans.

david_gaithersburg		2012-07-10 03:18:05 AM

I thought that healthcare was now free?

mofa		2012-07-10 03:31:14 AM

Gyrfalcon: You're implying that both this woman and whoever you bought your house from were somehow irresponsible for buying a house and then getting cancer? And that you're somehow more responsible because you'll never be so careless and lack the foresight to know you'll develop a terminal disease before doing something frivolous like buying a home?

What I'm saying is that I respect you, dear reader, and think you are sophisticated enough not to require an emoticon to identify satire.

RedVentrue		2012-07-10 03:32:05 AM

Tanthalas39: RedVentrue: Tanthalas39: If the idiots in this thread had their way, zero new drugs would be developed.

Right, because no drugs were developed before Pharma started gouging people.

Spoken like a true idiot. Thanks for stepping up to identify yourself.

Commonly drugs that could be very helpful to people are not developed or brought to market because the profit margin is too narrow. Drugs that are more harmful are developed because Pharm Co. can patent them. Taking out the profit motive is the best thing that could be done.

david_gaithersburg		2012-07-10 03:42:44 AM

RedVentrue: Tanthalas39: RedVentrue: Tanthalas39: If the idiots in this thread had their way, zero new drugs would be developed.

Right, because no drugs were developed before Pharma started gouging people.

Spoken like a true idiot. Thanks for stepping up to identify yourself.

Commonly drugs that could be very helpful to people are not developed or brought to market because the profit margin is too narrow. Drugs that are more harmful are developed because Pharm Co. can patent them. Taking out the profit motive is the best thing that could be done.

derp, derp, derp

burning_bridge		2012-07-10 03:43:07 AM

They could just write off the interest for a year. Either the family will be able to pay again or they'll default anyway. With stage 4 cancer whatever the outcome it will all be resolved in a year or so.

tbhouston		2012-07-10 03:47:37 AM

900?? I pay 1300 for a 1200 3 bedroom apartment....but hey if you can't afford your house because of your $1100 a month habit move out

Self entilted much? I'm sure once the local media gets ahold of this story some free hand out money will come her way

Rik01		2012-07-10 03:48:05 AM

Man! I love all of the sympathetic FARK-ers we have here. (Sarcasm!)

Since the middle 70's, there's been a marked change in business and society in general. Essentially it's 'haves and have-nots' and nothing to do with rich and poor. (If you can actually grasp that concept.)

Greed exploded in the 80's and just swept through American society like a wildfire. The 'Yuppies' created the 'I-got-mine-f**k-you' attitude and proceeded to push for gas guzzling SUVs and BMWs while folks were being laid off by the thousands and the homeless population turned into millions.

They also started the 'sue-everyone-for-anything' practice which has created major problems for everyone. THAT's one of the major reasons your health care costs are so high. Lawyers discovered a gold mine in suing anything medically related.

Hardships for other people became run of the mill. The Homeless were everywhere and soon went from poor folks to being pain in the arses. They caused property values to drop. They caused an increase in crime, spread disease, acted crazy, scared off customers and vandalized property for salable metals. Not ot mention that they bugged everyone on the street begging for money to eat, which we ALL KNEW they spent on booze and dope.

I was reminded of an incident in the late 60's, early 70's, where a little girl, with terminal cancer, wrote a book and it go published, made the news, the papers and a great sympathetic cry went up for this poor, dying little girl. Who then, died.

Another dying kid wrote a book. There was a fuss, but not as much. If any other dying kids wrote books I don't know because by then dying kids were a dime a dozen and no one cared if they wrote books. Every dying kid seemed to be doing it.

Society becomes jaded very fast. Causes are cool -- until there are so many of them that they become annoying. There was a big push to help the homeless about 2 years ago. Now, not only are they annoying, but cities are finding ways to restrict their movements, cracking down on charities feeding them and it gets real annoying to have to dredge up the dead every week and bury them at tax payers expense.

Not to mention they're thieves and you have to watch them and they smell and TV shows educate you on how crazy and deadly they can be. Other TV shows inform you how the lazy bums hide in subway tunnels and get free power, build cozy homes and leach off society. Some even have TV!!
Then came the stories of the homeless begging for money and making more than those kids flipping burgers in a hot kitchen and it turns out they weren't homeless after all, just posing as some to get free money.

Enter the House Flippers, the treasure hunters, the pawn shop dealers, the 'pickers', the distressed home buyers and everyone else who found ways to make seemingly easy money, often off the misery of others.

People get snowed under by all of this. Everything is getting more and more expensive and while many reasons are given, no one seems to know exactly why or what's to blame. New laws are churned out taking away freedoms and rights, especially from the poor and it seems like the Big Money dealers can do what they like and no one can stop them.

After all, look at the complex interest on credit cards and the fact that they are allowed to raise interest rates above 25% -- which, by law, is usury. A private citizen can't do that with a personal loan. Pay day loan companies can somehow manage to get 500% interest at times.

The media informs you daily that EVERYTHING causes cancer. You might DIE horribly from eating previously safe, good, healthy USA grade A food -- because somehow fecal bacteria got in it. Then, basically, nearly everything else can kill you also or sicken you seriously, where you'll have to sell everything to buy the $1000 a pill medication to get well. In the meantime, infomercials are happily selling you crap medications that don't work, never have and never will but aren't there laws to protect you from such scams?

So, when you read about someone else's misery, many are calloused in their opinions. EVERYONE has a problem. Everyone needs help. Just how MUCH can you care before your 'empathy' batteries get worn out?

Hell, you know you've tried for 40 years to feed the starving kids in Africa and they're still starving! Plus they're 45 years old now, in rebel groups and using Russian guns to kill each other and OUR soldiers.

You've learned your lesson. F**kers got to take care of themselves. What is yours YOU earned and by gosh, they had the same opportunities you did and screwed up.

Screw 'em!!

Right?

RedVentrue		2012-07-10 03:50:29 AM

david_gaithersburg: RedVentrue: Tanthalas39: RedVentrue: Tanthalas39: If the idiots in this thread had their way, zero new drugs would be developed.

Right, because no drugs were developed before Pharma started gouging people.

Spoken like a true idiot. Thanks for stepping up to identify yourself.

Commonly drugs that could be very helpful to people are not developed or brought to market because the profit margin is too narrow. Drugs that are more harmful are developed because Pharm Co. can patent them. Taking out the profit motive is the best thing that could be done.

derp, derp, derp

Blarg, blarg, blarg.

grimlock1972		2012-07-10 03:51:11 AM

first off don't get me started on how i think the health care industry should be run.

I feel for this woman and while Wells Fargo has to make a profit, i feel human compassion should win the day on this one.

Gimmick		2012-07-10 05:13:11 AM

I've never given a stranger a large sum of free money to help them buy a house. I'm not surprised Wells Fargo doesn't want to do that either.

Franko		2012-07-10 06:33:26 AM

In addition to not having universal healthcare, do you americans not have mortgage insurance either? My father-in-law is undergoing cancer treatments. While he's off work, the mortgage insurance is making his payments for him (and the government is paying for his treatment).

ransack.		2012-07-10 06:39:05 AM

When I got cancer, the CEO of BoA came to the hospital and, teary-eyed, handed me the deed to my house and the titles to the 3 cars I was financing. He said people matter more than money.

turned out to be a false positive too, so no cancer and $600,000+ free!

Dadoody		2012-07-10 06:43:14 AM

If I had a nasty form of cancer that takes years and millions of dollars to fight, I think I'd do without treatment until it becomes near debilitating and then go out like Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino.

Mose		2012-07-10 07:15:20 AM

Steigen: My wife is currently kicking the shiat out of stage IV non-Hodgkins (Large B cell) Lymphoma and our insurance (UHC) has been farking awesome...above and beyond type of personal service that has changed my view of managed healthcare.

That said, I have absolutely no idea how someone being sick should weigh on their farking mortgage. It's a loan payment...pay it or get out.

Life sucks, sorry.

Glad to hear that about UHC. Makes me feel better about cheering for their pro cycling team. :)

BMFPitt		2012-07-10 07:27:56 AM

I didn't RTFA, but it sounds like her life expectancy is less than the time it takes to foreclose, anyway.

Mose		2012-07-10 08:01:51 AM

Gyrfalcon: Now, if anyone wants a thumbnail sketch of how people become poor and homeless in America, this is it.

Here is a lady and her husband who bought a house they could totally afford when they bought it. Then lo and behold, the lady comes down with a horrible disease she had no reason to expect she would get, and it rapidly became worse. Now she has to pay for exorbitant medical expenses AND a mortgage which she was able to manage before she got sick.

So all you fools out there who natter about how people shouldn't get anything until they can "afford it"--even when you can afford it, something bad can happen out of the blue and make you poor and homeless. You can never plan for all eventualities.

Not to be argumentative, especially with my lack of data, but substituting my personal experience, this lady's situation seems a lot rarer than most of the other ways I've seen people remain badly off. I've worked in emergency medicine in and around some tough areas (Worcester, Webster, Southbridge MA) and the vast majority of homeless people we treated and saw were mostly drug addicts, alcoholics, single mothers without a high school education. Second to those situations were the elderly, unfortunately, without adequate assistance. The down on their luck cases like this lady's existed, and they were well publicized (saw a lot around '09 and '10 in the T&G) but they were much less common in my experience. Not that it makes it any better, but from what I've seen this story is more the exception than the rule.

Ruiizu		2012-07-10 08:09:30 AM

Actually she could easily fight the foreclosure. As the Bank did not have the money to lend her to begin with, it never provided anything from the start, and thus the foreclosure is illegal.

I wish I could remember the name of the court case that proved this was possible to argue based on the Fractional Banking Monetary System, but I'll have to get back on that one. It has been done before though---foreclosures can be stopped quite simply if you understand the rules and terminology.

Fissile		2012-07-10 08:12:57 AM

Fact is that Wells Fargo is one of the most evil banks I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with. How they get away with, what they get away with, I don't understand. Why haven't the states and Feds not prosecuted the people running WF, it's clearly a racketeering operation that engages in blatant fraud and theft.

Case in point:

Wells Fargo obtained my parents' home equity line of credit from another bank. Their original home equity note clearly states that it is an open line of credit, with no lump sum payment or draw period. As long as the borrower abides by the original terms of the note, and is not in default, the bank must keep the line of credit open. A few months ago WF contacted my parents and told them that the "draw period" is over, (a lie, I looked up the terms of the note filed at the county court house). WF told then they had NO CHOICE but to pay the entire balance in full immediately, or refinance at a much higher rate, OR WF WOULD "TAKE LEGAL ACTION". At this point WF terminated the line of credit, they can no longer draw on the account which has a credit limit of $20K.

The WF representative called them every few days for two weeks, telling them they had no choice but to pay the balance in full or refinance, at a much higher rate. The calls got more abusive and threatening as time went on, with the WF rep yelling at that them that they would lose their house if they didn't act immediately. This was over an outstanding home equity balance of $15K. They were never in default EVER, and continue to make payments and own no other money on the house -- first mortgage paid off years ago, no liens, no back taxes, NOTHING,

I went down to the court house and copied the home equity agreement and emailed it to the WF rep, asking him to point out where this agreement requires lump sum payments. A day later I received an email from the WF rep stating that the documents I provided him with were being tuned over to their legal department. A couple weeks later WF contacted my parents stating that they now had a year to either pay off the balance in full, or refinance or else. My parents continue to make monthly payments on time. They have no intention of making any lump sum payments. Why should they? As long as they don't sell the house, or go into default, the original note agreement makes no such requirements. If the criminals at WF try this again, I advised my parents to take it straight to a lawyer.

BTW, WF is the 4th bank to service this home equity agreement. The originating bank no longer exists. The only note on file at the court house is from the bank that originated the home equity agreement. THERE IS NO CHAIN OF TITLE ON THIS HOME EQUITY AGREEMENT LEADING TO WF.

Mose		2012-07-10 08:22:57 AM

Fissile: ...

Yeesh. That's shiatty. When I took out my HELOC I went with a local bank (seven or eight branches) that included language stating they wouldn't sell the loan to another lender. And they practice that in all the mortgages and loans they write. Their lending standards are probably a bit higher than most, but it's a stable bank and good to do business with.

Fissile		2012-07-10 08:32:22 AM

Mose: Fissile: ...

Yeesh. That's shiatty. When I took out my HELOC I went with a local bank (seven or eight branches) that included language stating they wouldn't sell the loan to another lender. And they practice that in all the mortgages and loans they write. Their lending standards are probably a bit higher than most, but it's a stable bank and good to do business with.

===========

My parents DID establish their HELOC with a local bank. That bank didn't sell their note, the bank was acquired/merged with another bank which in turn was acquired by Wachovia. Wachovia went Tango-Uniform and the Feds PAID WF TO TAKE OVER WACHOVIA. Now WF wants to unilaterally change the terms of the original HELOC and is engaging in some very dirty and and ILLEGAL means to do so. I can only imagine what would have happened if my parents were senile or didn't understand English. I'm sure WF would have had them turned out into the street over of a $15 HELOC balance THAT IS NOT IN DEFAULT AND NEVER WAS IN DEFAULT.

Fissile		2012-07-10 08:36:32 AM

I'm sure that there are more than a few lawyers who read Fark. Why do lawyers avoid taking on WF when the engage in outright fraud, lies and deception? Does WF have so much political muscle that they are untouchable?

Bullseyed		2012-07-10 09:07:23 AM

She's going to die, what exactly does she need money for?

MythDragon		2012-07-10 09:56:12 AM

djkutch: I'm so glad we live in a Christian Nation. Why aren't corporations subjected to activity that adheres to the teachings of Christ?

Because Christ never ran corporation.He was a small business carpenter. His only rule was no money-changing in the temples.

farkinoffdsm		2012-07-10 10:09:42 AM

gilgigamesh: I want to feel bad for these people. OK, well I do, but I want to feel like there's a bad guy here, and that the bank is that bad guy, but then there's this quote:

"They want us to make a house payment of almost $900 a month," Cindi told the station of their lender, Wells Fargo bank. "We can afford maybe half that. I pay $1,100 a month in prescription medications."

I don't think she understands how a mortgage works. The payment that is $900 a month is mostly principal. If they are trying to negotiate it down to half that, she is effectively asking Wells Fargo not only to take a loss on the interest payments, she's asking them the principal as well. Even if WF is willing to work with them, there's just no freaking way that can happen. Banks are not in business to subsidize your home purchase.

Much as I hate to say it, these folks need to just cut their losses and move into a section 8 rental.

May not be WF that doesn't want to work with them. They, like most other mortgage types,probably service more loans than they own and have to go by investor guidelines. As much as it sucks, cancer doesn't equal free house.

Pantubo		2012-07-10 10:10:00 AM

This never would have happened if Wells Fargo hadn't loaned her money. The bastards.

Let's give the libtards what they want: outlaw lending. Then banks can't greedily demand their money back, and they will be stripped of all their evil powers.

Progress!

MythDragon		2012-07-10 10:50:34 AM

Party Boy: [i.imgur.com image 500x322]

/moved the blanket over some, mod.

Farking Christ.

Now in color:
www.iwatchstuff.com

wambu		2012-07-10 10:54:52 AM

RedVentrue: The bank agrees to give you debt, and you pay it back 500%.

It's what you agreed and promised to do, dumbass. Or are you so lacking in character that your word is worthless?

If you didn't intend to repay the loan or felt that paying interest was unfair or wrong, you should not have signed the loan agreement.

i.imgur.com

WhoGAS		2012-07-10 11:25:44 AM

And how many other stories happen exactly like (or very similar) to this one? Why don't we hear about those? Who are these people to the newspaper? Who are these people to me?

When my landlord comes for me as I lay dying, he will have the pleasure of moving my body himself; rent or no rent. A man lives alone, a man dies alone.

cwheelie		2012-07-10 12:18:34 PM

Fissile: I'm sure that there are more than a few lawyers who read Fark. Why do lawyers avoid taking on WF when the engage in outright fraud, lies and deception? Does WF have so much political muscle that they are untouchable?

Citation please?

Scorpio Rex		2012-07-10 01:29:08 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: I'm not afraid to admit the failures of my party or to speak out when I see them on the wrong side of history.

So speak to them. Tell us all about them. Better yet, answer my challenge and contrast that particular, inarguable failure, THE singular defining moment of GW Bush's Presidency (tied with the near economic collapse of America due to his policies) vs. the defining item of President Obama's term, the PPACA, which most would not consider a failure at all.

Your guy lied to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Our guy is trying to get affordable health care for all. How do you equate these two?!?

PunGent		2012-07-10 01:33:47 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: PunGent: AverageAmericanGuy: kg2095: AverageAmericanGuy: Hey, at least she can get coverage now with her pre-existing condition, right?

Lousy farking compromise, Obama. You farked this one up.

You are having the little joke no? With the attitude to government subsidized health care in your country it's a miracle you even have that compromise. Obama didn't fark up - your general societal attitude did.

There was a short window of opportunity at the beginning of Obama's term where he was riding high in the polls and had huge amounts of support and the Republicans were flailing wildly. He wasted it and let the Republicans catch their footing. Now it's a huge clusterfark, and it is Obama's fault for squandering the chance.

Yeah, it's not like Obama didn't get a couple of unfinished wars and the worst recession since the Great Depression handed to him by Bush. He should've totally done health care.

Which the Republicans would've shot down.

You've GOT to be trolling.

The lengths you guys will go to defend your guy.

Are you really going to say that Obamacare is a huge victory?

Are you really going to pretend the individual mandate wasn't a REPUBLICAN idea?

PsiChick		2012-07-10 04:10:37 PM

wambu: The bank agrees to give you money and you agree to give it back. It's amazing how many people think that the giving back part is optional.

This unfortunate woman needs to be reaching out to her community for help, not the bank.

Yes, amazing how many people are faced with the choice of a) dying, or b) homelessness. Banks clearly are legally bound to follow their own rules to the letter, regardless of whether or not they could possibly help another person. And since we live in a near-pure capitalist society, where there is no rule forcing people to help other people, it's such a shame that something's stopping WF from doing what it's supposed to be socially obligated to do.

If you're going to have serfdom, fine. But then the overlords have obligations, and can be quite rightly taken to task for not fulfilling them.

wambu		2012-07-10 04:32:22 PM

PsiChick: wambu: The bank agrees to give you money and you agree to give it back. It's amazing how many people think that the giving back part is optional.

This unfortunate woman needs to be reaching out to her community for help, not the bank.

Yes, amazing how many people are faced with the choice of a) dying, or b) homelessness. Banks clearly are legally bound to follow their own rules to the letter, regardless of whether or not they could possibly help another person. And since we live in a near-pure capitalist society, where there is no rule forcing people to help other people, it's such a shame that something's stopping WF from doing what it's supposed to be socially obligated to do.

If you're going to have serfdom, fine. But then the overlords have obligations, and can be quite rightly taken to task for not fulfilling them.

Nice. I assume you are going to pay the mortgage for this lady?

/good for you, Internet Tough Guy

PsiChick		2012-07-10 04:39:25 PM

wambu: PsiChick: wambu: The bank agrees to give you money and you agree to give it back. It's amazing how many people think that the giving back part is optional.

This unfortunate woman needs to be reaching out to her community for help, not the bank.

Yes, amazing how many people are faced with the choice of a) dying, or b) homelessness. Banks clearly are legally bound to follow their own rules to the letter, regardless of whether or not they could possibly help another person. And since we live in a near-pure capitalist society, where there is no rule forcing people to help other people, it's such a shame that something's stopping WF from doing what it's supposed to be socially obligated to do.

If you're going to have serfdom, fine. But then the overlords have obligations, and can be quite rightly taken to task for not fulfilling them.

Nice. I assume you are going to pay the mortgage for this lady?

/good for you, Internet Tough Guy

Am I a) the person whose policies set up the pseudo-fuedal system or b) the overlord who actually owes said duty?

Because last I checked, I was c) the person arguing that this system is utter shiat. Not to mention that the overlord owes the duty, not the same-ranking person.

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-10 05:33:56 PM

Scorpio Rex: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm not afraid to admit the failures of my party or to speak out when I see them on the wrong side of history.

So speak to them. Tell us all about them. Better yet, answer my challenge and contrast that particular, inarguable failure, THE singular defining moment of GW Bush's Presidency (tied with the near economic collapse of America due to his policies) vs. the defining item of President Obama's term, the PPACA, which most would not consider a failure at all.

Your guy lied to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Our guy is trying to get affordable health care for all. How do you equate these two?!?

It's not relevant at all to the problem of universal healthcare. You are the one who is insinuating that starting a war is equivalent to failing to deliver a good healthcare law.

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-07-10 05:36:02 PM

PunGent: Are you really going to pretend the individual mandate wasn't a REPUBLICAN idea?

Did I? Haven't I said all along it was a terrible idea and that Obama failed to get a better bill passed?

Undulation		2012-07-10 07:45:32 PM

I'm not going to say that I have ever been an employee of a large multinational bank, but if I had been, I would not be surprised about any of this.

For one, no one who faces the customers has the power to do anything. The call centers in India are stocked with people whose lifetime gross income will never reach the average value of a US home. They'll yell at you because their incomes are tied directly to getting people to pay. If you send documents to their agents, it's unlikely they can get that to the legal department and even less likely a real lawyer will be involved; instead, their supervisor gets the email forwarded to them, promptly ignores it and sends a nastygram back to the phone agent to try to force payment again. If compelled by law to show cause, there's a 50/50 chance they won't even show up in court when summoned. The fines paid for this level of stupidity are generally less than the cost of doing the job right, so it gets perpetuated.

These titanic banks should not be in the mortgage business at all. It was all well and good when they had personnel to handle these things, but after trimming their staff to sub-productive levels, about all anyone in that company can do is hold on for dear life to a job they're not qualified to do. Home ownership should be a fairly personalized experience between you and a bank, not this commoditized securities, robosigning business.

This is the shortsighted corporate culture today. The CEOs act only in the short term, spending their time finding ways to increase profits and hit their bonus conditions, without regard to how it's making the business run. Odds are, you'll find better morale among taiwanese sweatshop workers than you'll find in a megabank mortgage center... few companies cut benefits and pay for employees while simultaneously announcing record profits, but these guys find a way. That translates into incredibly poor customer service, an adversarial attitude and a near total lack of compassion. Don't expect help from anyone, because no one you'll ever get to talk to at these banks will have the power to change anything.

RedVentrue		2012-07-10 08:40:06 PM

wambu: RedVentrue: The bank agrees to give you debt, and you pay it back 500%.

It's what you agreed and promised to do, dumbass. Or are you so lacking in character that your word is worthless?

If you didn't intend to repay the loan or felt that paying interest was unfair or wrong, you should not have signed the loan agreement.

[i.imgur.com image 291x180]

Her choice is to die, or repay the loan. All she asked for was a loan mod while on chemo you ass.

KIA		2012-07-10 09:06:35 PM

Fissile: THERE IS NO CHAIN OF TITLE ON THIS HOME EQUITY AGREEMENT LEADING TO WF.

Note transfers or indorsements are not the same thing as assignments of a trust. Title has nothing to do with it.

Fissile: Why do lawyers avoid taking on WF when the engage in outright fraud, lies and deception?

Fraud has a specific meaning in the law and you're not using that term correctly either.

Lines of credit can generally be called at any time or at any time following a certain period. You are correct in that parties to a contract generally need to adhere to the terms of the contract, but let's face it: contracts are broken all the time. They're broken by nonpayment, they're broken by failure to pay taxes, HOA liens, and a dozen other things. Worst case: it's a breach of contract, not a federal crime. There is a remedy.

Fissile		2012-07-10 10:03:52 PM

KIA: Fissile: THERE IS NO CHAIN OF TITLE ON THIS HOME EQUITY AGREEMENT LEADING TO WF.

Note transfers or indorsements are not the same thing as assignments of a trust. Title has nothing to do with it.

Fissile: Why do lawyers avoid taking on WF when the engage in outright fraud, lies and deception?

Fraud has a specific meaning in the law and you're not using that term correctly either.

Lines of credit can generally be called at any time or at any time following a certain period. You are correct in that parties to a contract generally need to adhere to the terms of the contract, but let's face it: contracts are broken all the time. They're broken by nonpayment, they're broken by failure to pay taxes, HOA liens, and a dozen other things. Worst case: it's a breach of contract, not a federal crime. There is a remedy.

===================

How does a bank prove that it holds a lien if it doesn't file anything with the local clerk of the court? The lien on the house regarding the HELOC was filed by the originating bank. The terms of the HELOC are detailed in that lien. None of the banks that have serviced this HELOC since then have filed anything with the county clerk indicating that they now hold a lien on the house.

My parents are not now, nor have they ever been in violation of the terms of the HELOC. There are no HOA liens since there is no HOA. Fire insurance is maintained on the house as required. There are no liens for back taxes or any other liens. The first mortgage is paid off, and there are no other mortgages. They are currently not in default on this HELOC, nor have they ever been in default on this HELOC, nor are they in default on any other loans. The original HELOC was open ended, there is no time period specified on the loan. WF obtained this HELOC from Wachovia and decided to unilaterally alter the terms of the original HELOC agreement. They made statements to my parents that were false and outright lies. How is that not fraud?

All you need to do is Google WF and see what a sleazy operation it really is. There are literally thousands of lawsuits alleging fraud, deceit, dealing in bad faith etc. WF is a a criminal operation. Why they are not prosecuted by the Feds, I don't know.

wambu		2012-07-10 10:12:26 PM

PsiChick: Am I a) the person whose policies set up the pseudo-fuedal system or b) the overlord who actually owes said duty?

Because last I checked, I was c) the person arguing that this system is utter shiat. Not to mention that the overlord owes the duty, not the same-ranking person.

You know how I know you're 12?

wambu		2012-07-10 10:13:50 PM

RedVentrue:

Her choice is to die, or repay the loan. All she asked for was a loan mod while on chemo you ass.

That's just hurtful.

i.imgur.com

/And those aren't her only choices.

RedVentrue		2012-07-10 10:34:44 PM

wambu: RedVentrue:

Her choice is to die, or repay the loan. All she asked for was a loan mod while on chemo you ass.

That's just hurtful.

[i.imgur.com image 291x180]

/And those aren't her only choices.

Remind me, if I ever find you dying of thirst in the desert, to tell you to get it your own farking self.

It's about a hunnerd miles thataway.

wambu		2012-07-10 10:52:53 PM

RedVentrue: wambu: RedVentrue:

Her choice is to die, or repay the loan. All she asked for was a loan mod while on chemo you ass.

That's just hurtful.

[i.imgur.com image 291x180]

/And those aren't her only choices.

Remind me, if I ever find you dying of thirst in the desert, to tell you to get it your own farking self.

It's about a hunnerd miles thataway.

So what have you done to help the woman?

RedVentrue		2012-07-10 11:06:17 PM

wambu: RedVentrue: wambu: RedVentrue:

Her choice is to die, or repay the loan. All she asked for was a loan mod while on chemo you ass.

That's just hurtful.

[i.imgur.com image 291x180]

/And those aren't her only choices.

Remind me, if I ever find you dying of thirst in the desert, to tell you to get it your own farking self.

It's about a hunnerd miles thataway.

So what have you done to help the woman?

I helped the high school aged girl who was nearly thrown in jail for truancy, while working to support what's left of her family after her parents abandoned them.
It's your turn.

DrPainMD		2012-07-11 12:43:20 AM

WhyteRaven74: DrPainMD: The only way to lower the cost is to lower the wages paid to the producers

Wrong.

I get it; you have no idea what the word "cost" means, and keep confusing it with the word "price." No need to keep on about it.

wambu		2012-07-11 01:54:52 PM

RedVentrue: I helped the high school aged girl who was nearly thrown in jail for truancy, while working to support what's left of her family after her parents abandoned them.
It's your turn.

i.imgur.com

I can feel the love.

PsiChick		2012-07-11 07:13:15 PM

wambu: PsiChick: Am I a) the person whose policies set up the pseudo-fuedal system or b) the overlord who actually owes said duty?

Because last I checked, I was c) the person arguing that this system is utter shiat. Not to mention that the overlord owes the duty, not the same-ranking person.

You know how I know you're 12?

No, I'm just struggling to figure out how to communicate with someone who lacks basic empathic capacity.

RedVentrue		2012-07-11 07:23:11 PM

PsiChick: wambu: PsiChick: Am I a) the person whose policies set up the pseudo-fuedal system or b) the overlord who actually owes said duty?

Because last I checked, I was c) the person arguing that this system is utter shiat. Not to mention that the overlord owes the duty, not the same-ranking person.

You know how I know you're 12?

No, I'm just struggling to figure out how to communicate with someone who lacks basic empathic capacity.

How do we live in a world run by psychopaths?

and why?

PunGent		2012-07-12 09:40:38 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: PunGent: Are you really going to pretend the individual mandate wasn't a REPUBLICAN idea?

Did I? Haven't I said all along it was a terrible idea and that Obama failed to get a better bill passed?

Fair enough...but do you really think the current crop of Republicans would LET a better bill get through?

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