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(Boing Boing)   Female gamer creates a Kickstarter to study women in video games. Male gamer responds by a) donating money, b) creating his own Kickstarter, or c) creating a video game that allows the player to beat the female gamer into a bloody pulp   (boingboing.net) divider line 65
    More: Asinine, Kickstarter, women in video games  
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5229 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Jul 2012 at 6:22 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-07-09 05:24:27 PM
7 votes:

Arami76: One thing I don't agree with is that fact that she's selectively approving her comments. Sure the derogatory comments need to go, but what about the others that are truly subjective? Her goal is to do that to games, why can't others do that to her goal? It make it one sided.

I suggested she take all that money and make a game that makes women what she would like to see in a game. Comment allowed? Nope.

So you want to make observations on women's rules in games, but you don't want to be criticized for it, nor make a game to illustrate what your ideals should be?

Sorry. You might as well be the "nice" version of the horrid trolls that do the same to you in harsh and profound ways.


This is a weird comment. The article linked here briefly mentions that Anita Sarkeesian kickstarted a research project into female videogame tropes in a kind of background establishing way. The main point of the article was mentioning the various silencing tactics taken against her, most notably a video game made for the sole purpose of simulating beating her. So you ignore all this and instead are simply trying a different silencing tact. It's not even really clear what you are talking about though. You are upset that she is moderating comments somewhere? I assume her kickstarter page? Of course, even if she wanted to (which rightly she doesn't) she couldn't take all that money and do something else. That's not how kickstarter, or any type of crowdfunding, works. If you really do want to discuss your idea, I could explain why it's bad, but more importantly in this context it's irrelevant. She has no obligation to host your irrelevant and derailing comments, so filtering them out is appropriate, especially in the context of a crowdfunding project like this. And of course there's the classic accusation that someone being attacked is just as bad as their attackers. People have been accusing feminists of misandry for longer than they were familiar with either word, but it wasn't true then and it's still not true now.
2012-07-09 06:57:14 PM
6 votes:

Arami76: I had actually posted the comment on her site and not on the kickstarter page well before the outpouring of funds that came in. I'm not 100% sure, but we can probably figure out when exactly. I'm thinking I made my suggestion around the 25000 mark.Regardless of kickstarter or anything else, I personally feel that any person that sensors anything that is not hate and rather impartial commentary shouldn't be validated as genuine nor impartial themselves.I'm very bad at expressing myself with text (or even verbally for that matter). But in my mind she's essentially gathered a bunch of money to bash games because they don't meet her own criteria on how they portray women. Plain and simple, down to brass tacks and all that, she's going in a round about way to do what all these trolls are doing to her, but in a very civilized and thought out manner.I'll have to dig up the exact comments I posted on her site, but I truly stated that instead of do that, she create! CREATE! Why break down what is already there for better or worse? Make something new. Show people what CAN be. Not break down and crap on peoples misconceptions, stupidity or what have you.MAKE SOMETHING NEW! SHOW US WHAT *CAN* BE!


Not providing you with a platform for your comments is not the same as censoring. And while these sort of comments may seem like they are perfectly fine because they aren't the violent and directly hateful comments discussed in the article they are still undesirable. At best, it's derailing, attempting to move the conversation to a different, less effective, and less relevant area. At worst it's all concern trolling and tone arguments.

As for her actual project, I don't see this as bashing video games. She's pointing out problems in video games, which you can do without bashing them and based on her Tropes vs Women series I imagine this is how it 's going to turn out. The tropes themselves, of course, can and should be bashed. They are serious problems that are well established in gaming and gaming culture and need to be discussed. The command to "make something new" is pretty much pointless or wrong for a variety of ways. It's going about it backwards. You can't just make a video game centered around the entire concept that women are actually people. Also, there isn't any sort of single or simple concept of how a woman in a video game should be, because basically they should be treated as actual people instead of [and here is where I would list some handy video game tropes. Exactly the sort of thing she will be describing and discussing, in depth, in her series].
2012-07-09 04:26:56 PM
4 votes:
As a female gamer, I'm very grateful that every male gamer I know is wonderful and kind and would be mortified at what this Spurr guy is doing.
2012-07-09 09:19:52 PM
3 votes:

t3knomanser: doglover: How is there outcry?

It's the outcry that's offensive. I basically ignored the project the first time I saw it- not my bag. But then a dishe of douches came out to play, and I found myself contributing just to spite them.

//Dishe is the collective noun for douchebags. It's like a murder of crows, or a pride of lions, except you want to punch them.


Actually the collective of douche is frat.

A frat of douches.
2012-07-09 08:05:19 PM
3 votes:
Eh, as an actual for-reals scientist that's expected to be rigorous and shiat when I publish, I can't help but feel the slightest bit of Schadenfreude that an amateur jackass is getting relentlessly mocked for basically doing an op-ed piece where she selectively edits data to make a political point and calling it "research".

I mean, intellectually, I know that I don't actually agree with the reason she's being mocked, but emotionally there's a degree of satisfaction with the workings of karma involved, like if a robber grabbed a little old lady's purse and then tripped in a manhole while escaping or something.

//I'd maybe be more on the girl's side if she was either up-front about the editorial/opinion nature of the project or if some actual harm had been done to her. Frankly people making fun of you on the internet being called oppression or a "silencing technique" is an insult to all the people in the world that are actually oppressed and silenced.
2012-07-09 07:59:10 PM
3 votes:

Arami76: Kome: Arami76: I only wish that these talks/deliberations could be opened up to ALL that see and have an opinion on the matter.

There's nothing that's preventing you from making your own videos or starting your own Kickstarter project. Well, nothing, of course, except yourself.

That's how you participate in these kinds of discussions. You make a claim, or reject a claim, and you go and do some leg work to find or discover evidence to support your position, paying particular attention to ambiguous and contradictory evidence, and then enter the arena like an adult and engage in civil conversation.

Beyond that, having an opinion by itself doesn't warrant it deserving being listened to. Having an informed opinion, backed up with data or evidence or proof (depending on the conversation), does.

The things is, I tried to express my opinion directly and was shunned. To me, that is censorship. She wants you to see what she wants you to see.


It's not that you tried to express your opinion. It's that you tried to express your opinion (which was irrelevant, and quite possibly concern or tone trolling) on her site. You are absolutely free to express your opinion. In fact, you just did. I saw you do it several times today alone. But Anita Sarkeesian doesn't have to express your opinion.

(As an aside, I don't think this is what you meant, but disagreeing with someone while stating that you are being logical repeatedly definitely sends the message that you believe your opponent to be illogical. This is especially relevant in any sort of discussion on gender since one of the classic dismissals of anything women have to say is claiming that they are being illogical, emotional, or hysterical and therefore their opinions, views and experiences do not count.)
2012-07-09 06:42:48 PM
3 votes:

gerrymander: There's nothing stopping Sarkeesian from other things equally useful with that money in addition to the movie. She could (as noted) create a game with the characteristics she'd like to see, or start a girl gamer forum/chat channel for the purpose of matching likeminded players in a safe environment, or any other thing she'd like.


She doesn't make games. She makes media studies videos. Why are you posting words on Fark instead of recording a song about the article?
2012-07-09 04:44:38 PM
3 votes:
You know, this guy is just probably mad that women never go for nice guys like him.
2012-07-10 09:18:50 AM
2 votes:
1. The guy in this article is an ass. As someone with male genitalia, I disown any association with him.

2. That being said, I'm also a little sick of "I'm a Girl Gamer! I'm a GIRL Gamer! I'm A GIRL GAMER!!!!" being shouted from the hilltops. We get it. You're a girl and you're playing a game that predominantly enjoyed by adolescent males. Fine. Whatever. Shut up and play the game, then.

I find the whole "gamer" title to be stupid. EVERYONE PLAYS VIDEOGAMES NOW. Everyone. My 77-year-old mother. My 79-year-old father. My sister who is pushing 50. My nephews, my boss, my coworkers, and pretty much everyone I meet plays videogames. They're ubiquitous, and saying "I'm a gamer" these days is kind of like saying "I'm a TV watcher" or "I'm a driver" or "I'm a telephone owner".

Videogames were mass-appeal popular in the 1980s, and they've remained so ever since. What the hell do you think "Pac-Man Fever" was all about, anyway? How do you think Atari sold 20 million 2600 consoles over the past three decades? There's a Wii, PS3, or Xbox in most homes today, and if not those, then an older generation console is owned. People have games on their phones, on their computer, and even on their set-top boxes designed for playing movies.

Being a "gamer" is no unique thing. It's no prime title. Claiming you're a "gamer" is like claiming there's something unique about eating breakfast cereal. I'm sorry, but everyone is doing it and you're not the original, rebellious figure you think you are.

This especially applies to "Girl Gamers" who seem to think they're the only females who play games, and that they're this entirely new phenomena. News Flash, ladies: There were plenty of girls in the arcades in the 80s. There were plenty of girls playing Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, Playstation, and Gameboy in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Videogames are everywhere now, and it would be tough to find a female who doesn't play the occasional videogame.

So what you mean is "I'm a multiplayer First Person Shooter fanatic" most likely, and to that I say "good luck" because I tend to avoid those things for all the reasons you "girl gamers" cite as being oppressive to you. Specifically, I refer to the fact that some of the adolescent jizzbags playing FPS games on multiplayer are immature, stupid, obnoxious, and insulting. They target EVERYONE and pick on them for whatever they can. For some people, it's because they're Black/White/Asian/whatever. For some it's because they "sound gay". For some it's because they sound "old". And for you, it's because you sound like a chick, and sometimes feel the need to broadcast that you are a chick by picking a name like "HotSexxxxyGamerQueen" or "PrincessL33T" when you play.

And guess what? The immature dipshiats will pick on you just as much as they pick on everyone else. Running behind the shelter of being a girl doesn't endear you to them, or to the rest of us.

Those of us who aren't douchebags just want to play the game without having to listen (for the umpteenth time) to you complaining that you're being picked on because you're a girl.

As Tom Hanks put it: There's no crying in baseball.

In other words, JUST PLAY. Don't pick a name that shouts LOOK AT ME I HAVE TITS. Don't keep reminding people that you're this "unique" creature because you're a female and you're GASP! playing a video game. If you don't like the other players, then report them or find another game with more mature players like the rest of us do when our game is overrun with idiots.

Just stop whining about it. We get it. You play games. You have breasts. We're all impressed. Now shut up and contribute to the fun.

And if it's not fun, then why the f♥ck are you doing it? What point are you trying to prove?

Most of us will treat you like anyone else. If you're upset over 13-year-olds calling you names and freaking out over something, then JOIN THE F'ING CLUB. That's life. There will always be assholes. Get over it.
2012-07-10 01:11:06 AM
2 votes:
I kind of defended her ealier....but then I watched her videos. She's a shrieking harpy, I really don't care what the internet does to her. The quote underneath this is from her series on tropes in the media, in fact her entire website is devoted to finding conspiracy in everyday things around her.


"The Girls are influenced by Femme Fatale's malicious rhetoric to see benign, routine every day things as a conspiracy against women and against them personally.

The writers of the Powerpuff Girls have carefully created a fantasy world without gender oppression, so that they can have the Girls start seeing oppression where none exists."
2012-07-09 10:55:43 PM
2 votes:

GF named my left testicle thundercles: 2. men use video games to get away from the pervasive influence of women in rest of the world who seek to control the way men speak, think, and act. they just want a space to be left alone so that they can be men.


I have been a man for a little while, at least. Never once have I felt the need to retire to a place devoid of women so I can talk about raping women, beating women, and/or in general espouse a mindset that treats women as barely human without getting hounded for talking about raping women, beating women, and/or in general espousing a mindset that treats women as barely human. Usually when I want to retire to a place that is devoid of women, I want it devoid of men too because I just want to be left alone with my work or my thoughts for a little while. Why is it when men say they want to have some place there aren't women, it's usually so they can do or say or express thoughts that are patently offensive towards people who consider women people? Guys who use this as a line of defense to critique her really need to grow up.

Also, honestly, given the massive pervasiveness of misogyny both on and offline, in this country and around the world, I'd posit - again, as a guy - that a good number of men probably do need to have their words thoughts and actions controlled a little bit since they obviously don't seem to be able to or willing to exert any self-control. It's like a parent washing a child's mouth out with soap kind of situation. If you can't or won't exercise some basic degree of civility, you probably do deserve to taste Irish Springs for a while.

No matter how radical a feminist she may be (which, having followed this story since the early stages, I should say that to me I don't see anything that is particularly radical about her brand of feminism), anyone who makes a rape threat against her or makes a f*cking game that centers entirely around physically abusing her is de facto evidence that she's not radical enough since there exists a sizable population of men who think it's okay to threaten to rape her or to make a f*cking game that centers entirely around physically abusing her.
2012-07-09 10:42:52 PM
2 votes:
i1172.photobucket.com

Ok, i guess it is up to me to set the record straight because the politically correct media doesnt have the balls to do their job. She is a gender feminist doing a series of videos about the supposed misogyny in video games. The video game-o-sphere exploded in opposition to the project for the following reasons:

1. she is a misandric feminist who minimizes male experiences while exaggerating female ones as demonstrated by the above quote in the picture.
2. men use video games to get away from the pervasive influence of women in rest of the world who seek to control the way men speak, think, and act. they just want a space to be left alone so that they can be men.
3. they believe feminism has turned so many institutions openly hostile to men (k-12 and college education, marriage and family court, work, etc) that they now fiercely protect the few remaining male institutions.
4. they believe that claiming female victim hood in a decade where women are considered to be doing better than men in most if not all respects is symbolic of the neglect that society in general has given men and the monopoly that feminism has on discussion about gender relations.

in conclusion, the game-o-sphere doesn't hate women, it hates gender feminists. just my 2 cents on the story which i have been following for the last week or so.
2012-07-09 08:58:21 PM
2 votes:
She sounds infinitely boring.

How did this raise $100,000? How is there outcry? *yawn* Why are my eyes suddenly heavy?
2012-07-09 08:51:45 PM
2 votes:

Arami76: tl;dr

But I did read the first part and didn't block you. Nor can I erase anything you said prior, nor would I want to censor it, change it or anything in any way shape or form. EVERYONE should be allowed to read EVERYTHING I post and EVERYTHING anyone else posts about me.


Unless of course Drew or the mods decide that they shouldn't be allowed to. Drew has no obligation to allow you to post on his site, just as she has no obligation to approve your comments. Nobody is censoring you, you're completely free to start a nice little blog of your own with all your opinions, or you know, come to some other site on the internet that discusses news and post your opinions there.

What you really mean is that you think you deserve some sort of response from her. That your opinion was so amazingly insightful that she shouldn't be allowed to decide what gets posted on her own site because your opinion is so important, even though by your own admission it was an attempted derailment of the goal of the project.
2012-07-09 08:25:42 PM
2 votes:

Arami76: Not true. Not when it's an opinion. Not when it adds to the original idea.

I didn't say F you, go where ever. I posed a question that added value to the idea. Why not incorporate it? Does it not fit into your value? If it doesn't, why block it? Why not at least allow it and then comment on why it doesn't fit? We're all speculating on it, but the woman that started this all has no say in the matter and chooses to just say nope... I don't care, not fitting into my realm of thought, GOODBYE.


Actually, yes true. Even if, even when. You can choose to put me on ignore, and that is entirely your right. I can be upset about it, or I can not. But my reaction is not, by itself, an indication of what you can or cannot do on this site. You are free to do what you wish in that regard. So is she. Just because you are upset that she is ignoring you is not an indication of what she is or is not allowed to do when it comes to who she listens to or takes ideas and advice from. Especially on her site.

As a comparison, when I start research into a topic that is mostly or completely unexplored (as I'm currently doing with two experiments and studies I'm in charge of), I do not have to listen to everyone's thoughts and ideas and contributions. Sometimes, in fact, trying to incorporate any or all of those disparate ideas and so on hurts the research I'm trying to do. Sometimes you have to start at the most basic and fundamental exploratory level, and whatever suggestions, comments, and ideas that others have made have to wait until later. And any colleague or subordinate who tries to press the issue without a real theoretical or empirical justification for doing so is going to get ignored by me with a quickness, or in more extreme cases I'll simply remove them from the project for being obtuse. And you know what? In my experience, that's the norm in science. Because otherwise, useless sh*t gets in that either confounds or renders useless the data, or delays full analysis by such a long period of time that the project becomes so much more of a headache than two separate projects that combined do the exact thing would have been.

But, that comparison aside, at a fundamental level, she is not required to give you a platform to express anything. Regardless of whether or not what you have to express is valid or important. If you cannot grasp that simple concept, then any further discussion with you is completely pointless.
2012-07-09 08:22:21 PM
2 votes:

Fish in a Barrel: Aren't The Sexy Villainess and Unattractive Equals Evil contradictory tropes?


Not necessarily. If all unattractive is evil, that does not imply that all evil is unattractive. That's not even addressing the false dichotomy between sexy and unattractive. There could be a whole spectra of evil, but if you're a hero, you're going to look at least average.

That said, Mrs. Male Character and Man with Boobs require a such a huge degree of sexual stereotyping, I don't know how anyone could make a video complaining about gender-based tropes and include those. You can't complain about a woman with a bunch of 'masculine' character traits without essentially creating a stereotype of female characters NOT having those traits. It's so confusingly hypocritical that it almost gives me a headache considering it.
2012-07-09 08:21:03 PM
2 votes:

Arami76: The My Little Pony Killer: Arami76: The My Little Pony Killer: Arami76: The My Little Pony Killer: Arami76: I have to restate the fact that I see things literally and logically.

[www.strategicdc.com image 500x277]

It's her Kickstarter project, not yours. If she doesn't want to listen to you, take the hint and either quit throwing your useless suggestions her way or start your own project. Jesus.

So what you suggest is you let everyone have their own thoughts and opinions unregulated, and me and everyone else go ahead and form their own ideas on whatever they feel like without any varying idea or opinion or conflict and whatever sounds good to you, you choose.

You know, like religion.

No, doofus. I'm telling you to quit sending the lady your creepy messages. She doesn't want to listen to you and has EVERY RIGHT to feel that way and to ignore your suggestions.

But please, continue with the histrionics about this. You've been quite entertaining all afternoon.

You're right. I digress.

We'll all wait to see what comes out of her hundreds of thousands of dollars provides.

Also remember that a true and real feminist doesn't add to women's rights by putting other men down and instead does so by making them equal.

If you don't like the idea of her spending your money in a way that you can't control, then don't donate to her. That problem is solved.

And you don't get to define what a real feminist is. Not yours. STFU and GBTW.

No, she got her money AND THEN SOME! I don't care what she does with it as long as she uses it do do something positive!


You don't get to define for her what is positive. And I don't know what to say about the "true and real feminist" comment. It's not only not right, it's not even wrong.
2012-07-09 08:13:13 PM
2 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Eh, as an actual for-reals scientist that's expected to be rigorous and shiat when I publish, I can't help but feel the slightest bit of Schadenfreude that an amateur jackass is getting relentlessly mocked for basically doing an op-ed piece where she selectively edits data to make a political point and calling it "research".

I mean, intellectually, I know that I don't actually agree with the reason she's being mocked, but emotionally there's a degree of satisfaction with the workings of karma involved, like if a robber grabbed a little old lady's purse and then tripped in a manhole while escaping or something.

//I'd maybe be more on the girl's side if she was either up-front about the editorial/opinion nature of the project or if some actual harm had been done to her. Frankly people making fun of you on the internet being called oppression or a "silencing technique" is an insult to all the people in the world that are actually oppressed and silenced.


I think this is the first appearance of the "but other people have it worse" argument in the thread, which is kind of impressive.

I'm not sure if you actually checked out the Kickstarter page, but it's not exactly being sold as whatever you seem to think it is. "This video project will explore, analyze and deconstruct some of the most common tropes and stereotypes of female characters in games." I'm not sure how much more "up-front" you are looking for? Maybe an existing body of work in the same vein that focuses on a slightly different body of popular culture as an example of what she is planning to do? Because she has that as well.
2012-07-09 08:07:21 PM
2 votes:

Arami76: Kome: netweavr: That's a tad disingenuous, there's no compulsion to listen to anyone. The warrant and validity of their claims is irrelevant to that end.

I was making a value judgment there with my use of the word "deserve" in that post, which I think would make warrant and validity relevant. But otherwise, you are absolutely correct. No one has to listen to anyone, whether they are right or wrong or informed or uninformed.

Arami76: The things is, I tried to express my opinion directly and was shunned. To me, that is censorship. She wants you to see what she wants you to see.

Nonsense. Not having your views respected is not censorship, that's the right of your audience or conversational partner to not listen to you. Your right to free speech is not the same as (a) having a captive audience or (b) having people respect your views. Having an audience and having your views respected are entirely dependent on the freely made choices of others. Any expectation otherwise is tantamount to you being okay with prohibiting the freedoms of others.

Not true. Not when it's an opinion. Not when it adds to the original idea.

I didn't say F you, go where ever. I posed a question that added value to the idea. Why not incorporate it? Does it not fit into your value? If it doesn't, why block it? Why not at least allow it and then comment on why it doesn't fit? We're all speculating on it, but the woman that started this all has no say in the matter and chooses to just say nope... I don't care, not fitting into my realm of thought, GOODBYE.


I don't know how you exactly phrased it, but based on what you said at the beginning this is not accurate. You stated it as a command. You said she should take all that money and do your idea. Not in incorporate and add it. And the idea itself doesn't add anything and detracts quite a bit for reasons I, and others, have explained up thread.
2012-07-09 07:58:58 PM
2 votes:

Arami76: I have to restate the fact that I see things literally and logically.


I have to restate the fact that the sun revolves around the earth. No matter how many times I restate that, though, it doesn't make it actually true.
2012-07-09 07:58:07 PM
2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Arami76: I have to restate the fact that I see things literally and logically.

www.strategicdc.com

It's her Kickstarter project, not yours. If she doesn't want to listen to you, take the hint and either quit throwing your useless suggestions her way or start your own project. Jesus


This. If you don't like her project, I've heard an idea recently, you might want to take it to heart:

create! CREATE! Why break down what is already there for better or worse? Make something new. Show people what CAN be. Not break down and crap on peoples misconceptions, stupidity or what have you.
2012-07-09 07:46:36 PM
2 votes:

Arami76: One thing I don't agree with is that fact that she's selectively approving her comments. Sure the derogatory comments need to go, but what about the others that are truly subjective? Her goal is to do that to games, why can't others do that to her goal? It make it one sided.

I suggested she take all that money and make a game that makes women what she would like to see in a game. Comment allowed? Nope.

So you want to make observations on women's rules in games, but you don't want to be criticized for it, nor make a game to illustrate what your ideals should be?

Sorry. You might as well be the "nice" version of the horrid trolls that do the same to you in harsh and profound ways.


She probably doesn't need your suggestions - it's possible that the little woman can figure out what to do all by her self, without your suoperior male wisdom to guide her.

Lotta inch-dick white boys around here.
2012-07-09 07:43:37 PM
2 votes:

Arami76: I only wish that these talks/deliberations could be opened up to ALL that see and have an opinion on the matter.


There's nothing that's preventing you from making your own videos or starting your own Kickstarter project. Well, nothing, of course, except yourself.

That's how you participate in these kinds of discussions. You make a claim, or reject a claim, and you go and do some leg work to find or discover evidence to support your position, paying particular attention to ambiguous and contradictory evidence, and then enter the arena like an adult and engage in civil conversation.

Beyond that, having an opinion by itself doesn't warrant it deserving being listened to. Having an informed opinion, backed up with data or evidence or proof (depending on the conversation), does.
2012-07-09 07:24:00 PM
2 votes:
On behalf of guys, I can only apologize to other adults - both men and women - for this kind of disgusting and stupid behavior. This kind of crap condones a mentality that is harmful to everyone, men and women. Misogyny, or any other form of discrimination, is dangerous for everyone, not just members of the targeted group.
2012-07-09 07:18:57 PM
2 votes:

cretinbob: Please be C, Please be C, Please be C


Kickstarter is not your private research grant bank thing


There are a lot of comments in this thread that I really am having trouble understanding. Why do you want graphically violent threats made against a woman? What exactly do you think Kickstarter is? To the best of my understanding Kickstarter is a crowdfunding site. You propose something you want to do that will cost money to do (making a widget, art, entertainment, whatever) and people then decide either "Yes, I would like someone to do that, here is some money to both express my desire for that thing and to allow you do it" or "nope". I don't understand what you think it is.
2012-07-09 07:01:27 PM
2 votes:

gerrymander: If she's choosing to curtail project suggestions -- criticism in the positive sense -- from her pool of donors and potential donors, that's a serious mistake on her part, and one which undercuts the goal of her project.


If you don't like how she's using her money, don't fund her project.
2012-07-09 06:58:56 PM
2 votes:

Arami76: I'll have to dig up the exact comments I posted on her site, but I truly stated that instead of do that, she create! CREATE! Why break down what is already there for better or worse? Make something new. Show people what CAN be. Not break down and crap on peoples misconceptions, stupidity or what have you.


Its like this. Different people are good at different things. Some people are good at creation and innovation. Some people are good at taking existing systems and making them work better and some people are good at blowing shiat up.

Anita Sarkeesian is most likely one of those people good at fixing existing systems. We need people like this - lots of them - or everything stops working. We also need them to help us figure out what needs to be created and this is what she is trying to do.
2012-07-09 06:54:14 PM
2 votes:
Maybe I'm just being cynical, but has anyone confirmed that Ben Spurr exists?
MBK [TotalFark]
2012-07-09 06:41:23 PM
2 votes:
This guy is a dildo.

Listen, if you want to make a video game about women being hurt, you can. There are plenty of games out there that let you do what you want to anyone you want, women included. Games like Fallout, Skyrim, etc give you free reign over your character, and let you be violent and an asshole and things like that.

But...they aren't directed at one particular woman. They are treated to be the same as the male characters.

This guy created a game to attack one particular woman over one particular issue "just because she wouldn't listen to me".

This guy has pretty farked up issues if he can take the time to create a game just to attack one person because he doesn't agree with her view points.
2012-07-09 06:28:59 PM
2 votes:
...ashamed that this guy is a member of my gender. What an effing idiot. I think all of us good guys should strive to remove him from our gender.
2012-07-09 05:47:25 PM
2 votes:

GAT_00: Why would you take that much time to do that? There is literally no point and no way to win with this. Yeah, he could just be a dillhole, but it could easily be a big scheme to drive hits and money to the Kickstarter. After all, now it's a big thing and people are going to hear about the Kickstarter.

Too cynical, or just cynical enough?


Reminds me of that town where the Tea Party wanted to cut funding to the libraries with some ballot initiative . Some activists co-opted the message and started protesting and putting up signs everywhere saying "Yes to ballot #499: close the libraries and burn all the books!"

That got the townspeople so mortified that enough of them showed up and voted to keep the libraries' funding.
2012-07-10 04:08:45 PM
1 votes:
As a woman I'd just like to say I like video games the way they are. I don't want to look or act like a video game character, nor do I expect people in real life to, in the same way that I don't expect eating a turkey leg to instantaneously heal bullet wounds like it would in a video game.

I've seen some of her videos, the points she makes often make little sense. She points out tropes and twists it around to interpret everything as paranoid sexism.

But good for her, making a bunch of money playing the poor victimized woman, and then playing that off as a feminist act. Paid money to look at video games, and make serious bidness videos on **youtube** of all places. Wow she's really making the world a better place... /sarcasm.

With her kickstarter the product is not really the videos, it's all this drama and circlejerk debates, meanwhile she gets her name mentioned across the internet. She's just an internet celebutard building up her resume.
2012-07-10 08:13:33 AM
1 votes:
Well I read the entire thread. There are some farking weird people on this site.

And I'm sticking with my original assessment. This is a massive feminist wank that will be of little value to anyone outside of feminist circles. If this was her project in college, nobody would have ever heard of or cared about it.

She has obviously seen the monetary value of trolling, and for every entitled man-child posting about her on the internet, there are 10 people willing to kick her cash.

Also, jealousy is the main motivation behind all the nay saying. How many times has "why does she deserve 160k blah blah" been put out there? Just because your kickstarter only got 1% funded and you aren't as motivated as this woman is no reason to get all buttgriefed.
2012-07-10 01:38:24 AM
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Eh, as an actual for-reals scientist that's expected to be rigorous and shiat when I publish, I can't help but feel the slightest bit of Schadenfreude that an amateur jackass is getting relentlessly mocked for basically doing an op-ed piece where she selectively edits data to make a political point and calling it "research".

I mean, intellectually, I know that I don't actually agree with the reason she's being mocked, but emotionally there's a degree of satisfaction with the workings of karma involved, like if a robber grabbed a little old lady's purse and then tripped in a manhole while escaping or something.

//I'd maybe be more on the girl's side if she was either up-front about the editorial/opinion nature of the project or if some actual harm had been done to her. Frankly people making fun of you on the internet being called oppression or a "silencing technique" is an insult to all the people in the world that are actually oppressed and silenced.


Well done, sir. I agree.
2012-07-09 10:51:22 PM
1 votes:

Avery614: GF named my left testicle thundercles: i1172.photobucket.com

If that is an actual quote from her, that's weapons grade stupid/immoral/insensitive/farktarded, pick one or all.


i1172.photobucket.com
it is. Note how similar it is to another famous quote by a well known feminist.
2012-07-09 10:39:56 PM
1 votes:

Avery614: Avery614: t3knomanser: Congrats Avery614, not only are you a moron, but you're peers with Skinnyhead and RandomJSA! A WINNER IS YOU!

WTF did I say to piss you off? Just wondering....


Ok now I'm confused. I actually agree with your posts in this thread and in no way condone what the asshat is doing to the girl. If it's the boys girls men women thing I was implying that only children do what he did and only children pay attention to it and cry about it. Adults just ignore the troll. I was just telling Arami76, if he was so invested in his proposal he should go to kickstarter and try to make money off the trolls, because well, fark those guys. If he can use that to discredit someone else's research well then good on him, it was poor research then.


Might be a case of mistaken identity, you and Arami76 have names that start with A and end with a number. I know when I scan down the page I sometimes get mixed up that way.
2012-07-09 10:22:20 PM
1 votes:

cretinbob: Please be C, Please be C, Please be C


Kickstarter is not your private research grant bank thing


Uh, yes it is. Kickstarter is for funding things. She has a thing she wants funded, so she goes to Kickstarter to get funding.
2012-07-09 09:47:42 PM
1 votes:
The great thing about this series is, *before it's even been made*, all the misogynist nerds types have been pouring out of the woodwork to prove her point exactly.
2012-07-09 09:37:34 PM
1 votes:

susansto-helit: As a female gamer, I'm very grateful that every male gamer I know is wonderful and kind and would be mortified at what this Spurr guy is doing.


You could leave gamer out of that, I think most men in general would not agree with the guy.
You know, this guy is using a very traditional method of dealing with feminists, threaten violence until they shut up and get back in the kitchen. I think this game would serve a useful purpose too, anyone who can see it and not go "That was sort of messed up, that guy has problems." is most likely not a nice person.

It'd be one thing if they were friends and did stuff like that all the time, but sheesh.
2012-07-09 09:06:46 PM
1 votes:

Arami76: Actually, what I am trying to convey is exactly this. I am to her, what you are to her trolls.

At no point in time have I put anyone down, hurt anyone, cussed... none of that. yet you all come at me and suggest I am wrong, but for what reason?

I've only been trying to prove a point. But then again, I'm a man. I'm not cute, I don't need rescuing and I can stand up for myself...


What a load of crap. What you've been saying over and over again is that she should not have the right to choose what opinions gets expressed on her own farking site. You haven't proven any point except that you seem to think your opinion, and the opinions of your immature brethren don't just deserve to be heard, but deserve to be displayed by her, on her site. And when she doesn't oblige, doucheboy in the article decides that a valid response is to create a game encouraging physical violence against her, and you come here to whine that she wouldn't let you determine the course of discussion with respect to her research.

If this was a teen boy looking into online bullying and the asswipe had created a game where it was his face in the game, you'd see the same response. You want to make it into a "it's because she's a woman" thing so you can hide behind it, as if this would be any more acceptable if it was a guys face.
2012-07-09 09:05:02 PM
1 votes:

Arami76: Science doesn't turn theory into reality by leaving something out.


WTF does that have to do with anything? She's building a documentary to discuss her view of female tropes in games. Documentary != science, nor does she claim otherwise. Idiots do as idiots are, idiotically.
2012-07-09 09:03:55 PM
1 votes:

doglover: How is there outcry?


It's the outcry that's offensive. I basically ignored the project the first time I saw it- not my bag. But then a dishe of douches came out to play, and I found myself contributing just to spite them.

//Dishe is the collective noun for douchebags. It's like a murder of crows, or a pride of lions, except you want to punch them.
2012-07-09 08:41:49 PM
1 votes:

Arami76: you two don't get to define that either.

I think there's three of us disagreeing with you, at least most vocally, but I suppose that's irrelevant. We never said we did. It's Anita's kickstarter, her project, I'm pretty sure she's making that decision. But we can state that something is or is not positive and then provide some reasoning behind it, so we did that.

And you two probably don't have a direct act toward either of you either.
I'm sorry, but I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

I did say something, I did make a point, I did post something directly to her and was denied.
You did say something, but I'm not sure you made a point. Maybe ignored is better than denied, but I'm not sure how much that distinction matters.

It doesn't matter the reason. you're speculating, I'm speculating, but to me it's real and factual. you two are just arguing the fact for what ever reason.
The reason does matter. I am speculating, but I have experience with these sort of events, these discussions, how they progress when unmoderated and what you should usually look for while moderating to allow productive discussion and weed out derailment, tone arguments and concern trolling.

Let's come back to this after the videos are released. 10 cents says I was leaning more on the logical and literal side than the point fingers side.
I also don't have any idea what this is supposed to mean, but I may have to change my mind and think you do mean to call people you disagree with illogical.
2012-07-09 08:41:05 PM
1 votes:

Arami76: I'm speculating, but to me it's real and factual.


And that, right there, is why you need to be quiet for a moment and reflect a little more deeply on this. You admit you're speculating, and that "to [you]" it's real and factual. That's tacit admission that you acknowledge the real possibility that external to your subjective assessment of a personal situation, your interpretation of events is not necessarily what is really going on.

Now, it doesn't happen very often on Fark, but occasionally a user gets permabanned. Nuked from motherf*cking orbit, so that any indication that handle ever said anything on here is gone. More frequently, the occasional comment will get deleted and all comments that directly responded to it get deleted as well, to remove evidence that the original comment was ever said. Guess what? That's Drew's right. It's his website. He gets to make the rules on his site. None of us have to like them, necessarily, but as long as we want to keep playing around on here we are required to follow his rules. And like it says on the FArQ page, the last say in the matter on anything that might be ambiguous about breaking the rules is not the literal text on the rules page but the purview of the people who run this site.

The grown-up, the adult, the mature thing to do is to just deal with it. Maybe I said something stupid and that's why my post got deleted. Or maybe I was being inappropriate and that's why people put me on ignore. Maybe they're just poopyheads who hates me for no reason whatsoever. Oh well, I gotta deal with it. It isn't like there's a shortage of websites I can go post on about whatever. And if all else fails, registering a domain name and starting my own site with my own rules isn't exactly expensive or technically difficult.
2012-07-09 08:40:58 PM
1 votes:
I just have to say, this thread makes me want to punch people. Not Ms. Sarkeesian, she's kinda cool. But people. You know who you are.
2012-07-09 08:10:45 PM
1 votes:

Fish in a Barrel: Aren't The Sexy Villainess and Unattractive Equals Evil contradictory tropes?


Tropes are tropes. They are not contradictory because they only exist within themselves.

Also, tropes can be averted, subverted, inverted, or played straight.
2012-07-09 08:04:19 PM
1 votes:

Arami76: Not true. Not when it's an opinion. Not when it adds to the original idea.


You're only assuming that you're adding to her idea.
2012-07-09 08:04:08 PM
1 votes:

FuturePastNow: Meh. Why is this any worse than running over hookers in GTA? Because it's a real person's image?


Context matters. So the fact that it is a real person matters. And that it was done in response to a feminist project. It's using the threat and imagery of violence to harass, intimidate, and ultimately silence someone. He says himself he did it in a way that she would listen. Using violence saying that it's needed to make someone listen is an incredibly common excuse used by perpetrators of domestic abuse. It's the same motivation here.
2012-07-09 08:03:16 PM
1 votes:

Arami76: The My Little Pony Killer: Arami76: I have to restate the fact that I see things literally and logically.

[www.strategicdc.com image 500x277]

It's her Kickstarter project, not yours. If she doesn't want to listen to you, take the hint and either quit throwing your useless suggestions her way or start your own project. Jesus.

So what you suggest is you let everyone have their own thoughts and opinions unregulated, and me and everyone else go ahead and form their own ideas on whatever they feel like without any varying idea or opinion or conflict and whatever sounds good to you, you choose.

You know, like religion.


No, doofus. I'm telling you to quit sending the lady your creepy messages. She doesn't want to listen to you and has EVERY RIGHT to feel that way and to ignore your suggestions.

But please, continue with the histrionics about this. You've been quite entertaining all afternoon.
2012-07-09 07:56:37 PM
1 votes:

netweavr: That's a tad disingenuous, there's no compulsion to listen to anyone. The warrant and validity of their claims is irrelevant to that end.


I was making a value judgment there with my use of the word "deserve" in that post, which I think would make warrant and validity relevant. But otherwise, you are absolutely correct. No one has to listen to anyone, whether they are right or wrong or informed or uninformed.

Arami76: The things is, I tried to express my opinion directly and was shunned. To me, that is censorship. She wants you to see what she wants you to see.


Nonsense. Not having your views respected is not censorship, that's the right of your audience or conversational partner to not listen to you. Your right to free speech is not the same as (a) having a captive audience or (b) having people respect your views. Having an audience and having your views respected are entirely dependent on the freely made choices of others. Any expectation otherwise is tantamount to you being okay with prohibiting the freedoms of others.
2012-07-09 07:52:54 PM
1 votes:

Kome: Arami76: I only wish that these talks/deliberations could be opened up to ALL that see and have an opinion on the matter.

There's nothing that's preventing you from making your own videos or starting your own Kickstarter project. Well, nothing, of course, except yourself.

That's how you participate in these kinds of discussions. You make a claim, or reject a claim, and you go and do some leg work to find or discover evidence to support your position, paying particular attention to ambiguous and contradictory evidence, and then enter the arena like an adult and engage in civil conversation.

Beyond that, having an opinion by itself doesn't warrant it deserving being listened to. Having an informed opinion, backed up with data or evidence or proof (depending on the conversation), does.


That's a lot more concise than the rambling paragraph I started to write. So, yeah, I pretty much agree with all of this.
2012-07-09 07:38:39 PM
1 votes:

Eternal Virgin: Girls don't play videogames.

They play games.. with men's hearts.

No videos there.


Your handle is fitting
2012-07-09 07:30:40 PM
1 votes:

cretinbob: Please be C, Please be C, Please be C


Kickstarter is not your private research grant bank thing


Actually that is pretty much exactly what Kickstarter is. You certainly live up to your online name.
2012-07-09 07:13:53 PM
1 votes:

cretinbob: Please be C, Please be C, Please be C


Kickstarter is not your private research grant bank thing


Sure it is. It's whatever you need it to be as long as you can convince people that your project is worth funding.
2012-07-09 07:10:56 PM
1 votes:

cretinbob: Please be C, Please be C, Please be C


Kickstarter is not your private research grant bank thing


Yes, everyone knows that if you use kickstarter to raise money for making videos, you deserve all the rape and death threats coming your way.
2012-07-09 07:02:43 PM
1 votes:

MayContainHorseGluten: netweavr: Maybe I'm just being cynical, but has anyone confirmed that Ben Spurr exists?

What, you think he's Seth McFarlane's twitter alt?


No idea, it just seems awkward to rage at some person who may not exist. I'd rather the person behind the game be found and asked, in person, to expound on their motivations. Otherwise the internet has taught me to simply assume I'm being trolled by someone or everyone.
2012-07-09 07:01:25 PM
1 votes:
One worthless, self indulgent endeavor is met with another worthless, self indulgent endeavor.
2012-07-09 06:58:45 PM
1 votes:
Meh, a person wants to take to the public soapbox, it's going to be what it's going to be. He didn't feel she was engaging in an honest back and forth, and decided to respond to her in a provocative manner. That's pretty much how this kind of thing works abscent some sort of authoratitive mediator. It's not terrible because she's a girl, if that is so terrible because she's a girl, then implication is that girls then require the overt blessing/protection of men to participate publicly.

It's pretty clear she's some flavor of womynist who believes all of the world's problems could be solved by reverting to a grass clothing, matriarchal, collectivist governmet where the erection of glistening skyscrapers is outlawed and we all live in moist holes dug into mother earth and covered by thick bushes.

It's equally clear he's not much fun at parties, can crack walnuts with his dominant had, and an expert in the evolution of erotica, possibly specialized knowledge of it as applies to transhumanism, or Naruto; one of the two.

If Kibology has taught me anything, it's that we're all winners because the internet allows us to enjoy their personal failings without having to directly suffering their grating natures.
2012-07-09 06:46:49 PM
1 votes:

Arami76: MAKE SOMETHING NEW! SHOW US WHAT *CAN* BE!


Uh, isn't her kickstarter for a web video series? 'cause everyone knows making videos and making video games takes the exact same skillset, resources, and time, right?

Sounds more like to me more "listen, woman, I'm sorry male-domainated video game culture has been so harsh with you, but criticizing video games is a man's job, and here's how one would do it.."
2012-07-09 06:33:48 PM
1 votes:

Fish in a Barrel: Aren't The Sexy Villainess and Unattractive Equals Evil contradictory tropes?


All X are Y but not all Y are X.
2012-07-09 06:31:43 PM
1 votes:
I guess he is still mad that the girl dressed as Sailor Moon at comic con didn't agree to come to his basement apt and look at this Warhammer collection.
2012-07-09 06:01:26 PM
1 votes:

Walker: I'm kinda glad I don't know what a "kickstarter" is.

/DRTFA


It's a method of getting venture capital from the general public rather than a few large investors
2012-07-09 05:45:08 PM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: loveblondieo: Okay so I googled his Twitter name of "bendilin" and pulled up a Myspace page of someone from the same city dressing as a woman. They both have similar features. I then do a whois on his website bringing up a personal Hotmail address. I plugin the email address into Facebook and pull a the same guy who has masculine and feminine features.

There is something going on with this one.

Just don't switch over to Images.


Heh, I made that mistake. Farking weird....
2012-07-09 04:39:02 PM
1 votes:
This guy must have serious issues. I notice his Twitter account has already been suspended.
2012-07-09 04:35:46 PM
1 votes:
That sounds like a LOT of work for not really any reward.

/games don't code themselves.
 
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