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(Boing Boing)   Female gamer creates a Kickstarter to study women in video games. Male gamer responds by a) donating money, b) creating his own Kickstarter, or c) creating a video game that allows the player to beat the female gamer into a bloody pulp   (boingboing.net) divider line 216
    More: Asinine, Kickstarter, women in video games  
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5229 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Jul 2012 at 6:22 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-09 04:26:56 PM
As a female gamer, I'm very grateful that every male gamer I know is wonderful and kind and would be mortified at what this Spurr guy is doing.
 
2012-07-09 04:35:46 PM
That sounds like a LOT of work for not really any reward.

/games don't code themselves.
 
2012-07-09 04:39:02 PM
This guy must have serious issues. I notice his Twitter account has already been suspended.
 
2012-07-09 04:39:59 PM
One thing I don't agree with is that fact that she's selectively approving her comments. Sure the derogatory comments need to go, but what about the others that are truly subjective? Her goal is to do that to games, why can't others do that to her goal? It make it one sided.

I suggested she take all that money and make a game that makes women what she would like to see in a game. Comment allowed? Nope.

So you want to make observations on women's rules in games, but you don't want to be criticized for it, nor make a game to illustrate what your ideals should be?

Sorry. You might as well be the "nice" version of the horrid trolls that do the same to you in harsh and profound ways.
 
2012-07-09 04:40:32 PM
Ohh wow, a Newgrounds flash game. You never find anything offensive at Newgrounds, ever.

/I thought newgrounds died a while ago
 
2012-07-09 04:44:38 PM
You know, this guy is just probably mad that women never go for nice guys like him.
 
2012-07-09 04:59:35 PM
Ben Spurr needs an ass beating.

Needs it.
 
2012-07-09 05:04:16 PM
Okay so I googled his Twitter name of "bendilin" and pulled up a Myspace page of someone from the same city dressing as a woman. They both have similar features. I then do a whois on his website bringing up a personal Hotmail address. I plugin the email address into Facebook and pull a the same guy who has masculine and feminine features.

There is something going on with this one.
 
2012-07-09 05:11:02 PM
Why would you take that much time to do that? There is literally no point and no way to win with this. Yeah, he could just be a dillhole, but it could easily be a big scheme to drive hits and money to the Kickstarter. After all, now it's a big thing and people are going to hear about the Kickstarter.

Too cynical, or just cynical enough?
 
2012-07-09 05:24:27 PM

Arami76: One thing I don't agree with is that fact that she's selectively approving her comments. Sure the derogatory comments need to go, but what about the others that are truly subjective? Her goal is to do that to games, why can't others do that to her goal? It make it one sided.

I suggested she take all that money and make a game that makes women what she would like to see in a game. Comment allowed? Nope.

So you want to make observations on women's rules in games, but you don't want to be criticized for it, nor make a game to illustrate what your ideals should be?

Sorry. You might as well be the "nice" version of the horrid trolls that do the same to you in harsh and profound ways.


This is a weird comment. The article linked here briefly mentions that Anita Sarkeesian kickstarted a research project into female videogame tropes in a kind of background establishing way. The main point of the article was mentioning the various silencing tactics taken against her, most notably a video game made for the sole purpose of simulating beating her. So you ignore all this and instead are simply trying a different silencing tact. It's not even really clear what you are talking about though. You are upset that she is moderating comments somewhere? I assume her kickstarter page? Of course, even if she wanted to (which rightly she doesn't) she couldn't take all that money and do something else. That's not how kickstarter, or any type of crowdfunding, works. If you really do want to discuss your idea, I could explain why it's bad, but more importantly in this context it's irrelevant. She has no obligation to host your irrelevant and derailing comments, so filtering them out is appropriate, especially in the context of a crowdfunding project like this. And of course there's the classic accusation that someone being attacked is just as bad as their attackers. People have been accusing feminists of misandry for longer than they were familiar with either word, but it wasn't true then and it's still not true now.
 
2012-07-09 05:32:11 PM

loveblondieo: Okay so I googled his Twitter name of "bendilin" and pulled up a Myspace page of someone from the same city dressing as a woman. They both have similar features. I then do a whois on his website bringing up a personal Hotmail address. I plugin the email address into Facebook and pull a the same guy who has masculine and feminine features.

There is something going on with this one.


Just don't switch over to Images.
 
2012-07-09 05:34:03 PM
Still, $160,000... I've gotta figure out a way to capitalize on that kind of interest.
 
2012-07-09 05:45:08 PM

Relatively Obscure: loveblondieo: Okay so I googled his Twitter name of "bendilin" and pulled up a Myspace page of someone from the same city dressing as a woman. They both have similar features. I then do a whois on his website bringing up a personal Hotmail address. I plugin the email address into Facebook and pull a the same guy who has masculine and feminine features.

There is something going on with this one.

Just don't switch over to Images.


Heh, I made that mistake. Farking weird....
 
2012-07-09 05:47:25 PM

GAT_00: Why would you take that much time to do that? There is literally no point and no way to win with this. Yeah, he could just be a dillhole, but it could easily be a big scheme to drive hits and money to the Kickstarter. After all, now it's a big thing and people are going to hear about the Kickstarter.

Too cynical, or just cynical enough?


Reminds me of that town where the Tea Party wanted to cut funding to the libraries with some ballot initiative . Some activists co-opted the message and started protesting and putting up signs everywhere saying "Yes to ballot #499: close the libraries and burn all the books!"

That got the townspeople so mortified that enough of them showed up and voted to keep the libraries' funding.
 
2012-07-09 05:57:22 PM
I'm kinda glad I don't know what a "kickstarter" is.

/DRTFA
 
2012-07-09 06:01:26 PM

Walker: I'm kinda glad I don't know what a "kickstarter" is.

/DRTFA


It's a method of getting venture capital from the general public rather than a few large investors
 
2012-07-09 06:21:26 PM

TheOmni: Arami76: One thing I don't agree with is that fact that she's selectively approving her comments. Sure the derogatory comments need to go, but what about the others that are truly subjective? Her goal is to do that to games, why can't others do that to her goal? It make it one sided.

I suggested she take all that money and make a game that makes women what she would like to see in a game. Comment allowed? Nope.

So you want to make observations on women's rules in games, but you don't want to be criticized for it, nor make a game to illustrate what your ideals should be?

Sorry. You might as well be the "nice" version of the horrid trolls that do the same to you in harsh and profound ways.

This is a weird comment. The article linked here briefly mentions that Anita Sarkeesian kickstarted a research project into female videogame tropes in a kind of background establishing way. The main point of the article was mentioning the various silencing tactics taken against her, most notably a video game made for the sole purpose of simulating beating her. So you ignore all this and instead are simply trying a different silencing tact. It's not even really clear what you are talking about though. You are upset that she is moderating comments somewhere? I assume her kickstarter page? Of course, even if she wanted to (which rightly she doesn't) she couldn't take all that money and do something else. That's not how kickstarter, or any type of crowdfunding, works. If you really do want to discuss your idea, I could explain why it's bad, but more importantly in this context it's irrelevant. She has no obligation to host your irrelevant and derailing comments, so filtering them out is appropriate, especially in the context of a crowdfunding project like this. And of course there's the classic accusation that someone being attacked is just as bad as their attackers. People have been accusing feminists of misandry for longer than they were familiar with either word, but it wasn't tr ...


I had actually posted the comment on her site and not on the kickstarter page well before the outpouring of funds that came in. I'm not 100% sure, but we can probably figure out when exactly. I'm thinking I made my suggestion around the 25000 mark.

Regardless of kickstarter or anything else, I personally feel that any person that sensors anything that is not hate and rather impartial commentary shouldn't be validated as genuine nor impartial themselves.

I'm very bad at expressing myself with text (or even verbally for that matter). But in my mind she's essentially gathered a bunch of money to bash games because they don't meet her own criteria on how they portray women. Plain and simple, down to brass tacks and all that, she's going in a round about way to do what all these trolls are doing to her, but in a very civilized and thought out manner.

I'll have to dig up the exact comments I posted on her site, but I truly stated that instead of do that, she create! CREATE! Why break down what is already there for better or worse? Make something new. Show people what CAN be. Not break down and crap on peoples misconceptions, stupidity or what have you.

MAKE SOMETHING NEW! SHOW US WHAT *CAN* BE!
 
2012-07-09 06:28:59 PM
...ashamed that this guy is a member of my gender. What an effing idiot. I think all of us good guys should strive to remove him from our gender.
 
2012-07-09 06:31:43 PM
I guess he is still mad that the girl dressed as Sailor Moon at comic con didn't agree to come to his basement apt and look at this Warhammer collection.
 
2012-07-09 06:32:10 PM
Aren't The Sexy Villainess and Unattractive Equals Evil contradictory tropes?
 
2012-07-09 06:33:32 PM

TheOmni: Arami76: So you want to make observations on women's rules in games, but you don't want to be criticized for it, nor make a game to illustrate what your ideals should be?

Sorry. You might as well be the "nice" version of the horrid trolls that do the same to you in harsh and profound ways.

This is a weird comment. The article linked here briefly mentions that Anita Sarkeesian kickstarted a research project into female videogame tropes in a kind of background establishing way. The main point of the article was mentioning the various silencing tactics taken against her, most notably a video game made for the sole purpose of simulating beating her. So you ignore all this and instead are simply trying a different silencing tact. It's not even really clear what you are talking about though. You are upset that she is moderating comments somewhere? I assume her kickstarter page? Of course, even if she wanted to (which rightly she doesn't) she couldn't take all that money and do something else. That's not how kickstarter, or any type of crowdfunding, works. If you really do want to discuss your idea, I could explain why it's bad, but more importantly in this context it's irrelevant. She has no obligation to host your irrelevant and derailing comments, so filtering them out is appropriate, especially in the context of a crowdfunding project like this. And of course there's the classic accusation that someone being attacked is just as bad as their attackers. People have been accusing feminists of misandry for longer than they were familiar with either word, but it wasn't true then and it's still not true now.


Not true. Plenty of wildly successful Kickstarter projects have amended the goals of the project while the funding drive was continuing -- Rich Burlew's Order of the Stick reprint drive is a perfect example.

There's nothing stopping Sarkeesian from other things equally useful with that money in addition to the movie. She could (as noted) create a game with the characteristics she'd like to see, or start a girl gamer forum/chat channel for the purpose of matching likeminded players in a safe environment, or any other thing she'd like.

If she's choosing to curtail project suggestions -- criticism in the positive sense -- from her pool of donors and potential donors, that's a serious mistake on her part, and one which undercuts the goal of her project.
 
2012-07-09 06:33:48 PM

Fish in a Barrel: Aren't The Sexy Villainess and Unattractive Equals Evil contradictory tropes?


All X are Y but not all Y are X.
 
2012-07-09 06:37:09 PM
Honestly her project sounds like a massive farking wank that nobody outside of feminist circles will ever consider or care about.

But my response to this is to move on with my day, not threaten her.
 
2012-07-09 06:38:56 PM
I doubt this woman's motives are what she says they are, but that's no reason for threats or hate against her.

Now driving drunk. There is something worthy of threatening to kill someone over.
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2012-07-09 06:41:23 PM
This guy is a dildo.

Listen, if you want to make a video game about women being hurt, you can. There are plenty of games out there that let you do what you want to anyone you want, women included. Games like Fallout, Skyrim, etc give you free reign over your character, and let you be violent and an asshole and things like that.

But...they aren't directed at one particular woman. They are treated to be the same as the male characters.

This guy created a game to attack one particular woman over one particular issue "just because she wouldn't listen to me".

This guy has pretty farked up issues if he can take the time to create a game just to attack one person because he doesn't agree with her view points.
 
2012-07-09 06:41:42 PM
Well, score one for her essentially getting people to give her enough money to essentially buy and play video games for her study. Some people are probably pissed that they didn't think of it first.

However, the legitimacy of this study will be determined by her results. If it is a well-crafted and well-sourced study, then the money raised will be well spent IMHO. If the study results in a 3-sentence summary, then we will know that she essentially got a bunch of suckers to round out her games library, which is also money well spent IMHO.

Either way, cool.
 
2012-07-09 06:42:46 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Honestly her project sounds like a massive farking wank that nobody outside of feminist circles will ever consider or care about.

But my response to this is to move on with my day, not threaten her.


I wonder how much of this hate is based off the idea of:
"I know you're trying to pull some bullshiat here but I'm too dumb to figure it out and call you on it."
 
2012-07-09 06:42:48 PM

gerrymander: There's nothing stopping Sarkeesian from other things equally useful with that money in addition to the movie. She could (as noted) create a game with the characteristics she'd like to see, or start a girl gamer forum/chat channel for the purpose of matching likeminded players in a safe environment, or any other thing she'd like.


She doesn't make games. She makes media studies videos. Why are you posting words on Fark instead of recording a song about the article?
 
2012-07-09 06:44:28 PM
Nice try, but she's definitely not going to sleep with you now, Sherlock.
 
2012-07-09 06:45:13 PM

TheOmni: Fish in a Barrel: Aren't The Sexy Villainess and Unattractive Equals Evil contradictory tropes?

All X are Y but not all Y are X.


Which one is a subset of the other? A SV ∉ UEE, and UEE implies ¬SV.

/I just like HTML escape codes.
 
2012-07-09 06:46:49 PM

Arami76: MAKE SOMETHING NEW! SHOW US WHAT *CAN* BE!


Uh, isn't her kickstarter for a web video series? 'cause everyone knows making videos and making video games takes the exact same skillset, resources, and time, right?

Sounds more like to me more "listen, woman, I'm sorry male-domainated video game culture has been so harsh with you, but criticizing video games is a man's job, and here's how one would do it.."
 
2012-07-09 06:47:32 PM
Sounds typical of a group that by and large dont know how to relate to women.

Umm, this chick is trying to make her own video game...what should we do?

Ummm...insult her and chase her away?

Yeah, totally...gaming is for guys.



No wonder these farks cant get laid.
 
2012-07-09 06:54:14 PM
Maybe I'm just being cynical, but has anyone confirmed that Ben Spurr exists?
 
2012-07-09 06:57:14 PM

Arami76: I had actually posted the comment on her site and not on the kickstarter page well before the outpouring of funds that came in. I'm not 100% sure, but we can probably figure out when exactly. I'm thinking I made my suggestion around the 25000 mark.Regardless of kickstarter or anything else, I personally feel that any person that sensors anything that is not hate and rather impartial commentary shouldn't be validated as genuine nor impartial themselves.I'm very bad at expressing myself with text (or even verbally for that matter). But in my mind she's essentially gathered a bunch of money to bash games because they don't meet her own criteria on how they portray women. Plain and simple, down to brass tacks and all that, she's going in a round about way to do what all these trolls are doing to her, but in a very civilized and thought out manner.I'll have to dig up the exact comments I posted on her site, but I truly stated that instead of do that, she create! CREATE! Why break down what is already there for better or worse? Make something new. Show people what CAN be. Not break down and crap on peoples misconceptions, stupidity or what have you.MAKE SOMETHING NEW! SHOW US WHAT *CAN* BE!


Not providing you with a platform for your comments is not the same as censoring. And while these sort of comments may seem like they are perfectly fine because they aren't the violent and directly hateful comments discussed in the article they are still undesirable. At best, it's derailing, attempting to move the conversation to a different, less effective, and less relevant area. At worst it's all concern trolling and tone arguments.

As for her actual project, I don't see this as bashing video games. She's pointing out problems in video games, which you can do without bashing them and based on her Tropes vs Women series I imagine this is how it 's going to turn out. The tropes themselves, of course, can and should be bashed. They are serious problems that are well established in gaming and gaming culture and need to be discussed. The command to "make something new" is pretty much pointless or wrong for a variety of ways. It's going about it backwards. You can't just make a video game centered around the entire concept that women are actually people. Also, there isn't any sort of single or simple concept of how a woman in a video game should be, because basically they should be treated as actual people instead of [and here is where I would list some handy video game tropes. Exactly the sort of thing she will be describing and discussing, in depth, in her series].
 
2012-07-09 06:58:45 PM
Meh, a person wants to take to the public soapbox, it's going to be what it's going to be. He didn't feel she was engaging in an honest back and forth, and decided to respond to her in a provocative manner. That's pretty much how this kind of thing works abscent some sort of authoratitive mediator. It's not terrible because she's a girl, if that is so terrible because she's a girl, then implication is that girls then require the overt blessing/protection of men to participate publicly.

It's pretty clear she's some flavor of womynist who believes all of the world's problems could be solved by reverting to a grass clothing, matriarchal, collectivist governmet where the erection of glistening skyscrapers is outlawed and we all live in moist holes dug into mother earth and covered by thick bushes.

It's equally clear he's not much fun at parties, can crack walnuts with his dominant had, and an expert in the evolution of erotica, possibly specialized knowledge of it as applies to transhumanism, or Naruto; one of the two.

If Kibology has taught me anything, it's that we're all winners because the internet allows us to enjoy their personal failings without having to directly suffering their grating natures.
 
2012-07-09 06:58:56 PM

Arami76: I'll have to dig up the exact comments I posted on her site, but I truly stated that instead of do that, she create! CREATE! Why break down what is already there for better or worse? Make something new. Show people what CAN be. Not break down and crap on peoples misconceptions, stupidity or what have you.


Its like this. Different people are good at different things. Some people are good at creation and innovation. Some people are good at taking existing systems and making them work better and some people are good at blowing shiat up.

Anita Sarkeesian is most likely one of those people good at fixing existing systems. We need people like this - lots of them - or everything stops working. We also need them to help us figure out what needs to be created and this is what she is trying to do.
 
2012-07-09 06:59:42 PM

netweavr: Maybe I'm just being cynical, but has anyone confirmed that Ben Spurr exists?


What, you think he's Seth McFarlane's twitter alt?
 
2012-07-09 07:01:25 PM
One worthless, self indulgent endeavor is met with another worthless, self indulgent endeavor.
 
2012-07-09 07:01:27 PM

gerrymander: If she's choosing to curtail project suggestions -- criticism in the positive sense -- from her pool of donors and potential donors, that's a serious mistake on her part, and one which undercuts the goal of her project.


If you don't like how she's using her money, don't fund her project.
 
2012-07-09 07:02:43 PM

MayContainHorseGluten: netweavr: Maybe I'm just being cynical, but has anyone confirmed that Ben Spurr exists?

What, you think he's Seth McFarlane's twitter alt?


No idea, it just seems awkward to rage at some person who may not exist. I'd rather the person behind the game be found and asked, in person, to expound on their motivations. Otherwise the internet has taught me to simply assume I'm being trolled by someone or everyone.
 
2012-07-09 07:03:31 PM
the thing i don't get is why she wanted to do this in the first place? i kind of thought that the whole "gamers are young male pigs who are tacist/mysoginistic and all love DOA games" was so well known it had passed into the realm of the cliche. Did we need a video series to once again remind us of this fact?
 
2012-07-09 07:06:20 PM

tlchwi02: the thing i don't get is why she wanted to do this in the first place? i kind of thought that the whole "gamers are young male pigs who are tacist/mysoginistic and all love DOA games" was so well known it had passed into the realm of the cliche. Did we need a video series to once again remind us of this fact?


That's her prerogative, if she wants to do the video series then she's perfectly welcome to do it. And if enough interest in the project exists, then it will be funded. That's part of the reason Kickstarter exists and is such a good concept.

This is America (assumption) not communist Russia.
 
2012-07-09 07:08:59 PM
Please be C, Please be C, Please be C


Kickstarter is not your private research grant bank thing
 
2012-07-09 07:10:31 PM

netweavr: Maybe I'm just being cynical, but has anyone confirmed that Ben Spurr exists?


I'm pretty sure Ben Spurr is nothing more than a modified paper towel holder.
 
2012-07-09 07:10:56 PM

cretinbob: Please be C, Please be C, Please be C


Kickstarter is not your private research grant bank thing


Yes, everyone knows that if you use kickstarter to raise money for making videos, you deserve all the rape and death threats coming your way.
 
2012-07-09 07:11:33 PM

netweavr: That's her prerogative, if she wants to do the video series then she's perfectly welcome to do it. And if enough interest in the project exists, then it will be funded. That's part of the reason Kickstarter exists and is such a good concept.

This is America (assumption) not communist Russia.


i'm not denying her the right. if she wanted to strip naked, cover herself in her own crap and do a web series where she shouts vaugely anti-semetic things at the moon she should go right ahead. nor am i trying to excuse anyone giving her crap for it.

really, my question is more off topic (and lazy.) I'm just honestly curious what her web series was supposed to accomplish/teach us/prove. its obviously some sort of documentary/critique/learning thing, but it seems kind of redundent. its been documented out the wazoo that the game industry is still really male (and juvenile) oriented. what was she trying to bring to the table that was new and interesting, and why would it lead to this sort of reaction, when the usual "games are juvenile male fantasy" articles that periodically pop up don't seem to get this much hate?
 
2012-07-09 07:12:26 PM

MayContainHorseGluten: cretinbob: Please be C, Please be C, Please be C


Kickstarter is not your private research grant bank thing

Yes, everyone knows that if you use kickstarter to raise money for making videos, you deserve all the rape and death threats coming your way.


That's how I feel about anyone using X-Box Live or playing DOTA-style games.
 
2012-07-09 07:13:53 PM

tlchwi02: netweavr: That's her prerogative, if she wants to do the video series then she's perfectly welcome to do it. And if enough interest in the project exists, then it will be funded. That's part of the reason Kickstarter exists and is such a good concept.

This is America (assumption) not communist Russia.

i'm not denying her the right. if she wanted to strip naked, cover herself in her own crap and do a web series where she shouts vaugely anti-semetic things at the moon she should go right ahead. nor am i trying to excuse anyone giving her crap for it.

really, my question is more off topic (and lazy.) I'm just honestly curious what her web series was supposed to accomplish/teach us/prove. its obviously some sort of documentary/critique/learning thing, but it seems kind of redundent. its been documented out the wazoo that the game industry is still really male (and juvenile) oriented. what was she trying to bring to the table that was new and interesting, and why would it lead to this sort of reaction, when the usual "games are juvenile male fantasy" articles that periodically pop up don't seem to get this much hate?


Dunno, ask her. I'm pretty sure her email is readily available (judging from the response she got cited by the article).
 
2012-07-09 07:13:53 PM

cretinbob: Please be C, Please be C, Please be C


Kickstarter is not your private research grant bank thing


Sure it is. It's whatever you need it to be as long as you can convince people that your project is worth funding.
 
2012-07-09 07:14:12 PM

cretinbob: Please be C, Please be C, Please be C


Kickstarter is not your private research grant bank thing


Not enough facepalm for this.

/no, you don't even get the dignity of a picture to go with that
 
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