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(ABC)   Palestinian President approves Arafat's autopsy, denies Geraldo's TV crew   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 22
    More: Followup, Yasser Arafat, palestinian president, Palestinians, Saeb Erakat, Ramallah, Palestinian territories, isotopes of polonium  
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1566 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2012 at 11:12 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-09 09:21:52 AM  
images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-07-09 11:37:35 AM  
Remember in Die Hard when Hans Gruber was talking to Mr. Takagi and Hans is admiring Takagi's suit and he says, "Rumor has it Arafat buys his there". But Arafat never wore a suit. Or was that the joke?

What is this story about?
 
2012-07-09 11:43:33 AM  
Who cares how he died.

That he's dead is the thing to celebrate.
 
2012-07-09 11:47:02 AM  
I like how they up and decide that he was poisoned with polonium after they find some of it. Whoever planted it needed to do a little more research.
 
2012-07-09 12:10:51 PM  
And I am sure that they are not gonna plant polonium like they just did on his clothing, and i am sure that they will indeed say 'Yeah, he did die of AIDS (and he also infected lots of young boys)

These PA guys are known for transparency.
 
2012-07-09 12:12:50 PM  
In an in-depth 1976 biography of Arafat, writer Thomas Kiernan chronicled the life of a young Arafat in Cairo. When Arafat discovered his girlfriend, Jinan al-Oraby, was friendly with the daughters of the Harkabis, an Egyptian Jewish family, he arranged for the murder of their father. When Jinan expressed sorrow for her friends, "Yasser went into a rage... he proceeded to beat me, tearing my clothes off...he threw himself on me... He tried to penetrate me, but he could not do so. This made him even more irrational."

Kiernan also relates Arafat's relationship with a boy, Ahmed, whose parents ended up on the Israeli side of the border after the 1948 war. An associate of Arafat's related, "Yasser tried to get the boy to publicly denounce his parents...Yasser really loved the boy. He was delicate, sensitive, like a flower. He was very much a part of Yasser's inner circle - four of five boys who lived in the same place, and well, you can imagine what I mean."

Kiernan continued: Arafat held a "kind of formal hearing for the boy" because of his refusal to denounce his parents. "Arafat sobbed and sobbed as [a young associate] proceeded to castrate the boy. The next day the boy was dead."

After Arafat's death, his personal physician admitted in a TV interview that his patient died of AIDS.
 
2012-07-09 12:16:40 PM  
The claims that Arafat had AIDS is a manufactured story by the people who want to expel the muslims out of the area they call "Judea and Samaria". They will stop at nothing to ethnically cleanse this region.
 
2012-07-09 12:17:03 PM  
His own personal doctor said so as well (and then had to claim it was because Israelis did it, of course. Otherwise, he would have suffered a sudden lead infusion to the brain)

The most shocking revelation, however, came last weekend in the wake of a live television interview with Dr. Ashraf Kurdi, Arafat's Jordanian physician. Kurdi, speaking to Al Jazeera in an Amman studio, said HIV antibodies were detected in Arafat's blood. The station immediately halted the broadcast.

Afterward, Kurdi clarified the matter, saying he believed that Arafat was deliberately infected with the HIV virus in order to obscure the real cause of death and in order to blacken his name. (Rumors about Arafat being homosexual were once rife, and homosexuality is condemned in traditional Arab society.) Kurdi, who was Arafat's personal physician for 18 years, added that everything regarding Arafat's death was very odd: "I would usually be summoned to attend to Arafat immediately, even when all he had was a simple cold. But when his medical situation was really deteriorating, they chose not to call me at all. His wife, Suha, would not allow me to travel with him to the hospital in Paris; no doctor at the French military hospital contacted me for details about his health; and after he died, the current PA chairman [Kurdi did not mention Mahmoud Abbas by name - D.R.] did not allow his grave to be reopened in order to determine the cause of death."
 
2012-07-09 12:17:39 PM  

moops: The claims that Arafat had AIDS is a manufactured story by the people who want to expel the muslims out of the area they call "Judea and Samaria". They will stop at nothing to ethnically cleanse this region.


Arafat's own personal doctor wants to kick all the Muslims out of Judea and Samaria?
 
2012-07-09 12:30:07 PM  
*sigh* I came looking for Geraldo being told his tv crew couldn't come in. Subby ruined it.
 
2012-07-09 12:58:44 PM  
The relevant part of TFA: "Our belief was always that it was an unusual death, and most likely he (Arafat) was poisoned. Now all indications say he was poisoned," al-Kidwa told AP. Al-Kidwa, a former Palestinian envoy to the United Nations, heads the Yasser Arafat Foundation and is the custodian of Arafat's memory.

Well, there you go:

1. We believe he was poisoned, therefore

2. He was poisoned.

Corollaries:

1. Even if the polonium we know was there has decayed, it must be shown to have been there.

2. When the tomb is opened, before any "Swiss experts" are allowed near it, the body can conveniently be contaminated with some polonium.

3. Profit!

Catch-22: Since radioactive substances decay at known rates, it should be relatively simple to prove (at least) whether any polonium discovered in the body could have been introduced in 2004. We'll see if they're smart enough to be able to explain that away......
 
2012-07-09 01:05:51 PM  

randomjsa: I like how they up and decide that he was poisoned with polonium after they find some of it. Whoever planted it needed to do a little more research.


Um, it sounds to me like they're doing exactly that. It's called the autopsy.

It's pretty clear that Arafat did not die of polonium poisoning: if this is genuine, then whoever tried to use it was too late. But if someone tried to kill him with this stuff, it's rather important to know that. Given polonium's half-life, they should be able to date the sample to within a few months, and that should be accurate enough to at least determine if this was placed around the time of his death (as an attempt on his life) or more recently (as an attempt at propaganda).
 
2012-07-09 01:08:03 PM  

rico567: 1. Even if the polonium we know was there has decayed, it must be shown to have been there.


Where would they have gotten a pre-aged sample of polonium?
 
2012-07-09 01:22:44 PM  

Millennium: rico567: 1. Even if the polonium we know was there has decayed, it must be shown to have been there.

Where would they have gotten a pre-aged sample of polonium?


Hence the Catch-22 at the bottom of my post. If this thing plays out, we'll need to pop a lot of popcorn.....
 
xcv
2012-07-09 01:27:52 PM  
I'd like to see the corpse missing when they go to dig it up, just to make things interesting.
 
2012-07-09 02:27:28 PM  

Millennium: Where would they have gotten a pre-aged sample of polonium?


On the internet for $69?
 
2012-07-09 03:16:28 PM  

randomjsa: I like how they up and decide that he was poisoned with polonium after they find some of it. Whoever planted it needed to do a little more research.


I say let this stupidity play itself out. I won't be surprised if they dig his grave and discover the body is missing.

They can simply ask his wife to reveal the cause of death. She refused to allow an autopsy when he croaked and the knowledge is probably the reason why she is spending millions of dollars in shopping sprees in Europe right now. Now she wants to dig him up to look for a poison which factually can never be found now on his body, or his clothes for that matter.
 
2012-07-09 03:23:05 PM  
Let's see, died 2004, half life of 138 days, 21 half lifes since death... I think that works out to 1/(2^21) or a ratio of 1:4.76837158 × 10-7 units remaining of the original sample.

Someone must have a homeopathic radiation detector.
 
2012-07-09 08:01:36 PM  

Millennium: randomjsa: I like how they up and decide that he was poisoned with polonium after they find some of it. Whoever planted it needed to do a little more research.

Um, it sounds to me like they're doing exactly that. It's called the autopsy.

It's pretty clear that Arafat did not die of polonium poisoning: if this is genuine, then whoever tried to use it was too late. But if someone tried to kill him with this stuff, it's rather important to know that. Given polonium's half-life, they should be able to date the sample to within a few months, and that should be accurate enough to at least determine if this was placed around the time of his death (as an attempt on his life) or more recently (as an attempt at propaganda).


No, it can't be dated. Radioisotope dating either requires a known initial concentration (as is used in C-14 dating--and note that the baseline varies. That's why you see raw and corrected C-14 dates. The latter dates have been adjusted based on tree-ring data. Raw dates are in the correct order but the intervals aren't accurate.) or it requires a decay sequence where two items can be measured.

Unfortunately, Polonium-210 has an extremely simple decay sequence: Pb-206 via alpha emission. Lead-206 is a common isotope and normal values of lead in the human body would say he had 1000x as much from other sources as from Po-210 decay.

Thus you can't date it. All you can do is work backwards from the current supposed levels to what they would have to be when he was alive--oops, you get something like 100x a lethal dose. The margin between a lethal dose of radiation and incapacitated in minutes is less than 10x.
 
2012-07-10 12:07:43 PM  
I am not a big "pro-israeli" guy, but the Israeli government is dead on on this one:

It made absolutely no sense for the Israelis to kill Arafat at the time. He was reduced to hiding in his compound and had less influence and capability during any time in his life. His death would lead to an easily foreseeable change in which HAMAS would fill a power vacuum, create a near civil war in the territories, turn Gaza into a living hell and pre-empt any possibility of a peace deal because two different factions would be in charge of the territories. To claim that Arafat's death would be beneficial to the Israelis is laughable.

If they wanted to wack him, why would they wait until he accrued 30 years of political influence before doing so?

Also, you have to be kind of brain dead on the facts. Here is a 75 year old man who was nearly 100 pounds overweight. He was surrounded by militia and had round the clock protection. It would have been easier to kill him by mailing cheeseburgers than to get someone in to poison him.

Also, have you seen what polonium does to people? If he died of Polonium poisoning, he would have looked a lot different than he did when he died.

DIC has many causes which can easily be attributed. I personally think he was a heavy drinker. That is why his wife didn't previously allow his autopsy. It would ruin his street cred as a Muslim if the Palestinians discovered he drank himself to death.

He was very overweight and used to shake frequently when talking--both signs of extended alcohol abuse.
 
2012-07-10 12:40:45 PM  

angryjd: DIC has many causes which can easily be attributed. I personally think he was a heavy drinker. That is why his wife didn't previously allow his autopsy. It would ruin his street cred as a Muslim if the Palestinians discovered he drank himself to death.

He was very overweight and used to shake frequently when talking--both signs of extended alcohol abuse.


It will ruin his street cred even more when it is finally revealed he was a promiscuous homosexual who died of AIDS

Not exactly gonna fly well.
 
2012-07-10 02:46:45 PM  

Tatsuma: angryjd: DIC has many causes which can easily be attributed. I personally think he was a heavy drinker. That is why his wife didn't previously allow his autopsy. It would ruin his street cred as a Muslim if the Palestinians discovered he drank himself to death.

He was very overweight and used to shake frequently when talking--both signs of extended alcohol abuse.

It will ruin his street cred even more when it is finally revealed he was a promiscuous homosexual who died of AIDS

Not exactly gonna fly well.


Dying of alcoholism and obesity at 75 is a hell of a lot more statistically likely.
 
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