If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(SFGate)   2012 has not been a good ERA for Tim Lincecum   (sfgate.com) divider line 145
    More: Fail, Tim Lincecum, nyg, Bruce Bochy, pirates  
•       •       •

1708 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Jul 2012 at 10:45 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



145 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-07-09 10:47:38 AM  
I've been saying for a while now that Lincecum's gonna get Dontrelle Willis'd.

That is, get older and fill out, lose some flexibility from his delivery, and just kinda fall apart.

Of course, I thought it would happen like three years ago.
 
2012-07-09 10:49:14 AM  
I'll take him straight up for the National Leagues ERA leader, Ryan Dempster.

And I love Dempster.

He funny.
 
2012-07-09 11:01:21 AM  
.333 BABIP

59.2 LOB%

get back to me when he actually sucks.
 
2012-07-09 11:07:43 AM  

DeWayne Mann: .333 BABIP

59.2 LOB%

get back to me when he actually sucks.


Stat geeks hate it when their stats don't work. He's not playing poorly, he's just unlucky.
 
2012-07-09 11:07:46 AM  

DeWayne Mann: .333 BABIP

59.2 LOB%

get back to me when he actually sucks.


His walk and HR rates are up. He's got a bb/9 of 4.7, which is pretty terrible.

He's still striking out everyone, and is certainly pitching better than the Lackey-esque numbers he's put up. But he hasn't been good so much as weird. He's kinda turned into Hideo Nomo, I guess.
 
2012-07-09 11:15:37 AM  

MugzyBrown: DeWayne Mann: .333 BABIP

59.2 LOB%

get back to me when he actually sucks.

Stat geeks hate it when their stats don't work. He's not playing poorly, he's just unlucky.


I'm not going to say "my" stats are perfect, because they certainly aren't.

But there are far, far better ways to evaluate pitching than ERA. And all of those ways point out that Lincecum isn't even close to being the worst pitcher in the league.

Dafatone: His walk and HR rates are up. He's got a bb/9 of 4.7, which is pretty terrible.

He's still striking out everyone, and is certainly pitching better than the Lackey-esque numbers he's put up. But he hasn't been good so much as weird. He's kinda turned into Hideo Nomo, I guess.


Oh, I'm not saying he should win the Cy Young this year. Both FIP & xFIP have him as being roughly average.

But there's some other weird stuff, too. Check out, for instance, how many bunt hits he gives up. Now, MAYBE someone noticed Lincecum is bad at fielding the bunt...but I'm a bit more inclined to point out that they keep giving him a rookie catcher and a first baseman who is actually a catcher.
 
2012-07-09 11:16:25 AM  

MugzyBrown: DeWayne Mann: .333 BABIP

59.2 LOB%

get back to me when he actually sucks.

Stat geeks hate it when their stats don't work. He's not playing poorly, he's just unlucky.


Those are unlucky, but as Dafatone pointed out he has other things working against him. I think the point is that while something is clearly wrong, his numbers shouldn't be quite *this* bad.
 
2012-07-09 11:17:44 AM  

DeWayne Mann: Check out, for instance, how many bunt hits he gives up.


I meant bunt/infield hits. Whatever, I'm tired.
 
2012-07-09 11:23:25 AM  

FreakinB: MugzyBrown: DeWayne Mann: .333 BABIP

59.2 LOB%

get back to me when he actually sucks.

Stat geeks hate it when their stats don't work. He's not playing poorly, he's just unlucky.

Those are unlucky, but as Dafatone pointed out he has other things working against him. I think the point is that while something is clearly wrong, his numbers shouldn't be quite *this* bad.


If Lincecum had an ERA of, say, 4.25, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He'd be lumped in with people like Lester: "guys who aren't benefiting from the Year of the Pitcher" or whatever.

But, because Lincecum is last in the league in a poorly designed stat, here we are.
 
2012-07-09 11:25:25 AM  

MugzyBrown: DeWayne Mann: .333 BABIP

59.2 LOB%

get back to me when he actually sucks.

Stat geeks hate it when their stats don't work. He's not playing poorly, he's just unlucky.


That's not stats not working (and what does that even mean?) Those are just some factors behind his inflated ERA - factors he has little control over.
 
2012-07-09 11:27:59 AM  

Rex_Banner: That's not stats not working (and what does that even mean?)


Look here, Rex_Banner. There's a narrative we need to talk about, and if proper pitching evaluation stats gets in the way of that narrative, CLEARLY THOSE STATS ARE WRONG.
 
2012-07-09 11:36:23 AM  

DeWayne Mann: FreakinB: MugzyBrown: DeWayne Mann: .333 BABIP

59.2 LOB%

get back to me when he actually sucks.

Stat geeks hate it when their stats don't work. He's not playing poorly, he's just unlucky.

Those are unlucky, but as Dafatone pointed out he has other things working against him. I think the point is that while something is clearly wrong, his numbers shouldn't be quite *this* bad.

If Lincecum had an ERA of, say, 4.25, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He'd be lumped in with people like Lester: "guys who aren't benefiting from the Year of the Pitcher" or whatever.

But, because Lincecum is last in the league in a poorly designed stat, here we are.


As I've mentioned, I'm a little skeptical of BABIP, FIP, and xFIP writing off all of a pitcher's failure (and thanks for pointing me towards SIERA, which is a fun attempt at a different approach). BABIP's going to go up if a pitcher becomes more hittable, too. If there were some way to verify that the way Lincecum is throwing now is the same as he was throwing last year (same K rate hints at this, but isn't proof or anything), then BABIP would explain his lack of success as luck. The terrible strand rate is either bad luck or "choking", whatever that even means.

Lincecum pitches in a very good pitcher's park with a defense that's at least kind of solid*. His h/9 leaping up at the same time as his hr/9 and bb/9 isn't a coincidence, at least to me.

*I could be wrong here. I know Crawford's a very good glove at short, but I can't say that much about the rest of the team. Melky is a heck of a corner OF, but Angel Pagan is the worst good defender I've ever seen.
 
2012-07-09 11:38:40 AM  
Let me also say screw the Giants.

First Sandoval and Posey take starting spots from much, much more deserving players. Now, we apparently don't get to see RA Dickey start because Posey's too much of a delicate flower to catch a knuckleball.

Man the fark up, Buster Posey, or just be a better-than-average 1b.
 
2012-07-09 11:43:24 AM  

Dafatone: As I've mentioned, I'm a little skeptical of BABIP, FIP, and xFIP writing off all of a pitcher's failure (and thanks for pointing me towards SIERA, which is a fun attempt at a different approach). BABIP's going to go up if a pitcher becomes more hittable, too. If there were some way to verify that the way Lincecum is throwing now is the same as he was throwing last year (same K rate hints at this, but isn't proof or anything), then BABIP would explain his lack of success as luck. The terrible strand rate is either bad luck or "choking", whatever that even means.

Lincecum pitches in a very good pitcher's park with a defense that's at least kind of solid*. His h/9 leaping up at the same time as his hr/9 and bb/9 isn't a coincidence, at least to me.

*I could be wrong here. I know Crawford's a very good glove at short, but I can't say that much about the rest of the team. Melky is a heck of a corner OF, but Angel Pagan is the worst good defender I've ever seen.


I'll get back to you in a second with the pitching profile, but as for the defense, again I'll point out: Bochy has, for whatever reason, decided that when Lincecum pitches, the catcher will be Hector Sanchez and the first baseman will be Buster Posey. He's doing this with Zito too...and Zito has been "worse" over that time period as well.
 
2012-07-09 11:47:45 AM  

Dafatone: Let me also say screw the Giants.

First Sandoval and Posey take starting spots from much, much more deserving players. Now, we apparently don't get to see RA Dickey start because Posey's too much of a delicate flower to catch a knuckleball.

Man the fark up, Buster Posey, or just be a better-than-average 1b.


In other words.....waaaaaaahhhh! Someone stole my binky!!!

/posey not catching dickey was larussa's decision
 
2012-07-09 11:51:07 AM  

jackiepaper: Dafatone: Let me also say screw the Giants.

First Sandoval and Posey take starting spots from much, much more deserving players. Now, we apparently don't get to see RA Dickey start because Posey's too much of a delicate flower to catch a knuckleball.

Man the fark up, Buster Posey, or just be a better-than-average 1b.

In other words.....waaaaaaahhhh! Someone stole my binky!!!

/posey not catching dickey was larussa's decision


Which brings up another point. How many games has Larussa watched this season? Probably like four?
 
2012-07-09 11:51:10 AM  

Rex_Banner: That's not stats not working (and what does that even mean?) Those are just some factors behind his inflated ERA - factors he has little control over.


Maybe, maybe not. Baseball is a pretty simple sport. He's walking more batters, he's giving up more hits, and more HRs.

Let's see, maybe his control is off. If his control is off, then he'd walk more batters and miss his spots.. which would lead to better contact by the batters, which would lead to more HRs/power against.

Wow it all fits.. even the evil ERA and W/L record. No need to see if his BABIP is high or whatever silly stat you want to pull up. You don't even need stats, you can just watch the game and see his opponents rounding the bases.
 
2012-07-09 11:55:53 AM  

jackiepaper: Dafatone: Let me also say screw the Giants.

First Sandoval and Posey take starting spots from much, much more deserving players. Now, we apparently don't get to see RA Dickey start because Posey's too much of a delicate flower to catch a knuckleball.

Man the fark up, Buster Posey, or just be a better-than-average 1b.

In other words.....waaaaaaahhhh! Someone stole my binky!!!


As to that, if you don't want the best players in the NL starting the allstargame, that's cool. Meanwhile, I'd like the NL to actually win.
 
2012-07-09 11:59:41 AM  
It could be a lot of things. His fastball velocity is down, which makes it more hittable, and his changeup less effective. He could also just not care about working hard. You can't rely on freakish talent all the time. At some point you have to become more a pitcher as you spend more time in the majors. Work ethic is something that many teams see, and fans never see. A great example of this is Melky. When he was with the Yankees he was a party guy and didn't take time to make himself better. Getting traded by the Yankees and then being released by the Braves made him realize that even stars need to work at this game. Brian Cashman said as much a few weeks ago.
 
2012-07-09 12:02:45 PM  

MugzyBrown: Rex_Banner: That's not stats not working (and what does that even mean?) Those are just some factors behind his inflated ERA - factors he has little control over.

Maybe, maybe not. Baseball is a pretty simple sport. He's walking more batters, he's giving up more hits, and more HRs.

Let's see, maybe his control is off. If his control is off, then he'd walk more batters and miss his spots.. which would lead to better contact by the batters, which would lead to more HRs/power against.

Wow it all fits.. even the evil ERA and W/L record. No need to see if his BABIP is high or whatever silly stat you want to pull up. You don't even need stats, you can just watch the game and see his opponents rounding the bases.


Also known as "coming back to earth." Happens all the time & it doesn't really matter whether we're talking about a pitcher or hitter. Look at Napoli's numbers so far this year on the heels of what he did last season.
 
2012-07-09 12:03:27 PM  

MugzyBrown: Rex_Banner: That's not stats not working (and what does that even mean?) Those are just some factors behind his inflated ERA - factors he has little control over.

Maybe, maybe not. Baseball is a pretty simple sport. He's walking more batters, he's giving up more hits, and more HRs.

Let's see, maybe his control is off. If his control is off, then he'd walk more batters and miss his spots.. which would lead to better contact by the batters, which would lead to more HRs/power against.

Wow it all fits.. even the evil ERA and W/L record. No need to see if his BABIP is high or whatever silly stat you want to pull up. You don't even need stats, you can just watch the game and see his opponents rounding the bases.


The control thing is a good point - his increases BB rate is definitely hurting him. But his K/9 is right in line with his career rate. That indicates that his stuff is still good enough to fool hitters and he's still controlling his pitches well enough to rack up strike outs. So maybe, just maybe, there is a little more going on here.
 
2012-07-09 12:04:17 PM  

Dafatone: jackiepaper: Dafatone: Let me also say screw the Giants.

First Sandoval and Posey take starting spots from much, much more deserving players. Now, we apparently don't get to see RA Dickey start because Posey's too much of a delicate flower to catch a knuckleball.

Man the fark up, Buster Posey, or just be a better-than-average 1b.

In other words.....waaaaaaahhhh! Someone stole my binky!!!

As to that, if you don't want the best players in the NL starting the allstargame, that's cool. Meanwhile, I'd like the NL to actually win.


I'm not going to argue that Wright and Ruiz arent having statistically better seasons, but to suggest that Posey and Sandoval playing the first few innings (instead of the last few) hurts the NL's chances of winning is pretty silly, IMHO.

Wright and Chooch will get in the game, probably by the 4th or so. It will be fine. the NL (one of two actual baseball leagues in existence, the other being the NPB Central League) will win anyway.
 
2012-07-09 12:04:58 PM  
Poor Mitch Kramer.
 
2012-07-09 12:05:32 PM  

Dafatone: If there were some way to verify that the way Lincecum is throwing now is the same as he was throwing last year (same K rate hints at this, but isn't proof or anything)


Here are some differences I can see:

All of his velocity is down from last year, though it's worth noting that last season his slider, curve & change all went faster than in the rest of his career, and those three pitches are roughly in line with his career norms this year. His fastballs, though, are quite a bit slower than normal.

Early in his career, Lincecum was 4seam, change, curve, in roughly that order. In 2010, he turned a lot of those 4seams into 2seams. Last year, he turned most of his curves into sliders, and it seemed to work for him, though he said in this offseason that the slider hurts to throw, and he actually intended to not throw it much at all this year.

With that all in mind, his pitch selection (in terms of raw numbers; I'm not talking specific AB situations or anything like that) is fairly similar to last year. Early in the season, he threw more curves than sliders, but that has since gone back to being pretty slider heavy.

His slider is an interesting pitch this season, though. It tends to get swung at, never gets fouled off, and usually goes for a ground ball. Except when it's not a ground ball, it's basically a line drive HR. His curveball has similar outcomes, except the HRs are on flyballs.

The other weird pitch is the 4seam. As mentioned, it is a bit slower, and the result appears to be a lot less popups. Everything else about it is more or less the same (it has a bit more movement and seems to be generating more swinging strikes, in fact), but when it's a flyball, it goes further than you'd expect.

I dunno, I'm not really seeing anything glaring, outside of his weird breaking balls. Then again, I got like no sleep last night, so I'm not exactly awake right now.
 
2012-07-09 12:07:54 PM  

jackiepaper: Dafatone: jackiepaper: Dafatone: Let me also say screw the Giants.

First Sandoval and Posey take starting spots from much, much more deserving players. Now, we apparently don't get to see RA Dickey start because Posey's too much of a delicate flower to catch a knuckleball.

Man the fark up, Buster Posey, or just be a better-than-average 1b.

In other words.....waaaaaaahhhh! Someone stole my binky!!!

As to that, if you don't want the best players in the NL starting the allstargame, that's cool. Meanwhile, I'd like the NL to actually win.

I'm not going to argue that Wright and Ruiz arent having statistically better seasons, but to suggest that Posey and Sandoval playing the first few innings (instead of the last few) hurts the NL's chances of winning is pretty silly, IMHO.

Wright and Chooch will get in the game, probably by the 4th or so. It will be fine. the NL (one of two actual baseball leagues in existence, the other being the NPB Central League) will win anyway.


That'd be fine, except I trust Larussa about as far as I can throw him.

Let me get a little more NL griping in. Why is Bryce Harper an allstar? I know he's a draw, and that's the reason. And he's going to make another dozen all star teams, sure. But he's behind Scott Hairston in WAR.
 
2012-07-09 12:12:28 PM  

DeWayne Mann: .333 BABIP

59.2 LOB%

get back to me when he actually sucks.


From looking at fangraphs there are only 6 qualified pitcher with worse BABIP but Lincecum has the lowest WAR of all of them he also has the most walks. Most stats are not showing that he is worst in the league but they also show that he is below average. He should be a 4-5 starter. The odd part is that he won back to back Cy Youngs only a only a couple of seasons ago.

His fastball velocity is down 2 mph while the changeup is unchanged. This leads to less deception and a higher chance of hitting his pitcher.

/while he doesn't suck, he is also not particularly good
 
2012-07-09 12:13:17 PM  

MugzyBrown: Rex_Banner: That's not stats not working (and what does that even mean?) Those are just some factors behind his inflated ERA - factors he has little control over.

Maybe, maybe not. Baseball is a pretty simple sport. He's walking more batters, he's giving up more hits, and more HRs.

Let's see, maybe his control is off. If his control is off, then he'd walk more batters and miss his spots.. which would lead to better contact by the batters, which would lead to more HRs/power against.

Wow it all fits.. even the evil ERA and W/L record. No need to see if his BABIP is high or whatever silly stat you want to pull up. You don't even need stats, you can just watch the game and see his opponents rounding the bases.


Let's say that your half-hearted attempt at analysis is correct. With it in mind, which makes more sense:

1. Lincecum was one of the best pitchers in the league last year, but now he's the worst.
or
2. Lincecum was one of the best pitchers in the league last year, but now he's more like an average guy.

ERA & W/L say the former, "my' stats say the latter.
 
2012-07-09 12:15:59 PM  

Dafatone: Why is Bryce Harper an allstar?


Totally should've been Justin Ruggiano. They even have the same amount of playing time!

satanorsanta: His fastball velocity is down 2 mph while the changeup is unchanged. This leads to less deception and a higher chance of hitting his pitcher.


Actually, as I just posted, his fastball has picked up a bit of movement and seems to be generating more swinging strikes. At least one rating system suggests it's a better pitch than it was last year.
 
2012-07-09 12:20:15 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Let's say that your half-hearted attempt at analysis is correct. With it in mind, which makes more sense:

1. Lincecum was one of the best pitchers in the league last year, but now he's the worst.
or
2. Lincecum was one of the best pitchers in the league last year, but now he's more like an average guy.

ERA & W/L say the former, "my' stats say the latter.


Like I said at the start of the thread, there's the Dontrelle Willis explanation. Get older, fill out, fall apart. Dontrelle went from great to bad to terrible over three years, not two, but it's the same idea.

That being said, there's no way Lincecum's season isn't at least partially luck-driven. I'm not sure I agree that he's been average, but he's not THE worst starting pitcher in baseball, which is what his ERA suggests.

DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: Why is Bryce Harper an allstar?

Totally should've been Justin Ruggiano. They even have the same amount of playing time!


I'm incapable of saying anything good about Marlins, but you have a point. I like my Scott Hairston for the Allstar Game idea, though.
 
2012-07-09 12:27:33 PM  

4NTLRZ: Also known as "coming back to earth." Happens all the time & it doesn't really matter whether we're talking about a pitcher or hitter. Look at Napoli's numbers so far this year on the heels of what he did last season.


Oops, I missed this earlier.

Amusingly, Napoli is another guy with some fun BABIP stuff. A quick rule of thumb is that a player's BABIP will be roughly his LD% + 12, and that's generally been true for Napoli. Last season, his LD% was 19.6, so we'd expect a BABIP around .316. Instead, it was rather high: .344. So he got lucky last year.

But his LD% is actually up this year, and so we'd expect a BABIP around .337. Instead it's....297. Note that this is really similar to what was happening to Youk in Boston.

He's got a few other issues: he's striking out more, a lot of his flyballs are staying in the infield. But if his average was up around, say, .270, with his OBP & SLG rising as well, no one would have any issue at all.

As it is, he's still an average hitter (thanks to his ability to walk), meaning he's an above average hitting catcher.
 
2012-07-09 12:31:54 PM  

Dafatone: Like I said at the start of the thread, there's the Dontrelle Willis explanation. Get older, fill out, fall apart. Dontrelle went from great to bad to terrible over three years, not two, but it's the same idea.

That being said, there's no way Lincecum's season isn't at least partially luck-driven. I'm not sure I agree that he's been average, but he's not THE worst starting pitcher in baseball, which is what his ERA suggests.


But Willis fell apart because he couldn't hit the strike zone, and when he did, it got hit out of the park. He never had a good K/9 anyway, so when the walks came up, it was a lot, lot worse.

That's not really the same as Lincecum.

Dafatone: I'm incapable of saying anything good about Marlins, but you have a point.


I, uh...don't have a point. I was actually making fun of David Samson's inability to look things up. Harper actually has 3 times as many PA as Ruggiano this year, and has roughly as many PA as Ruggiano does in his entire career.
 
2012-07-09 12:39:03 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: Like I said at the start of the thread, there's the Dontrelle Willis explanation. Get older, fill out, fall apart. Dontrelle went from great to bad to terrible over three years, not two, but it's the same idea.

That being said, there's no way Lincecum's season isn't at least partially luck-driven. I'm not sure I agree that he's been average, but he's not THE worst starting pitcher in baseball, which is what his ERA suggests.

But Willis fell apart because he couldn't hit the strike zone, and when he did, it got hit out of the park. He never had a good K/9 anyway, so when the walks came up, it was a lot, lot worse.

That's not really the same as Lincecum.


Taking a look at it, his walks weren't that bad until after he lost it. In 06 and 07, the two years after his great season at age 23, he had bb/9s of 3.3 and 3.8. Not good and trending bad, especially with his not-amazing k/9 rate, but those aren't awful. It looks like he got hit more, more than anything else. And from watching a whole lot of him, I can tell you that the difference for him really was losing his flexibility. You look at his windup at age 23 vs 25 or 26, and it was radically different.

In 2008, over 8 games with the Tigers, Willis put up a bb/9 of 13.1. Ouch.

DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: I'm incapable of saying anything good about Marlins, but you have a point.

I, uh...don't have a point. I was actually making fun of David Samson's inability to look things up. Harper actually has 3 times as many PA as Ruggiano this year, and has roughly as many PA as Ruggiano does in his entire career.


I knew something was off there, but I thought Ruggiano had about 50-100 more PA than he does. So now the Marlins don't have a rep. Ha!
 
2012-07-09 12:48:42 PM  

Dafatone: It looks like he got hit more, more than anything else.


But he never really had a bad BABIP. His worst season is at .327, and that was much later on.

I'm a fan of using K/BB for some quick looks, and that really tells the best story. I mean, he basically went 3 to 2 to 1.5 to < 1. Meanwhile, the HRs came up.

Lincecum has gone 3 to 2, yes, but the ERA doesn't match that change in the slightest. And that change has happened to other good pitchers before with no real lasting effect. Check out, for instance, Roy Halladay 2004.

Or for a counter example, what the heck was up with Greg Maddux 2002?

Dafatone: So now the Marlins don't have a rep. Ha!


The other funny part is that Samson named Greg Dobbs, who, yes, is hitting .300...but it's the emptiest .300 ever. He's actually a below average hitter.

In conclusion, Marlins are terrible.
 
2012-07-09 12:53:31 PM  

DeWayne Mann: He's got a few other issues: he sucks.


Everyone in Texas was wanting to lock him up after his season last year... I always felt that he needed to show consistency first year-to-year.

Yes, "sucks" is an emotional response based on a complete blind eye to any statistics. Still, he pisses me off.
 
2012-07-09 12:58:13 PM  

Uncle Pooky: DeWayne Mann: He's got a few other issues: he sucks.

Everyone in Texas was wanting to lock him up after his season last year... I always felt that he needed to show consistency first year-to-year.

Yes, "sucks" is an emotional response based on a complete blind eye to any statistics. Still, he pisses me off.


Yeah, who wants a catcher with a 101 wRC+? Terrible.

You know what I want? A DH with a 70 wRC+. MICHAEL YOUNG FOR MVP.
 
2012-07-09 12:59:54 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: It looks like he got hit more, more than anything else.

But he never really had a bad BABIP. His worst season is at .327, and that was much later on.

I'm a fan of using K/BB for some quick looks, and that really tells the best story. I mean, he basically went 3 to 2 to 1.5 to < 1. Meanwhile, the HRs came up.

Lincecum has gone 3 to 2, yes, but the ERA doesn't match that change in the slightest. And that change has happened to other good pitchers before with no real lasting effect. Check out, for instance, Roy Halladay 2004.

Or for a counter example, what the heck was up with Greg Maddux 2002?


That
b>DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: It looks like he got hit more, more than anything else.

But he never really had a bad BABIP. His worst season is at .327, and that was much later on.

I'm a fan of using K/BB for some quick looks, and that really tells the best story. I mean, he basically went 3 to 2 to 1.5 to < 1. Meanwhile, the HRs came up.

Lincecum has gone 3 to 2, yes, but the ERA doesn't match that change in the slightest. And that change has happened to other good pitchers before with no real lasting effect. Check out, for instance, Roy Halladay 2004.

Or for a counter example, what the heck was up with Greg Maddux 2002?

Dafatone: So now the Marlins don't have a rep. Ha!

The other funny part is that Samson named Greg Dobbs, who, yes, is hitting .300...but it's the emptiest .300 ever. He's actually a below average hitter.

In conclusion, Marlins are terrible.


Indeed! Though he sort of has a point, similar to Infante being named last year or the year before or whenever that was. Do you take the best players (yes) or the guys who make up the best roster by being good role players (no)?
 
2012-07-09 01:01:15 PM  

Dafatone: That


Agreed.

Dafatone: Though he sort of has a point, similar to Infante being named last year or the year before or whenever that was.


EVERYONE hated that rule.
 
2012-07-09 01:23:51 PM  
I remember opening day @ Snakes, when Lincecum's line through like, 5 batters was:

4 runs surrendered
4 hits
3 HR


it was hilarious. he settled down in that game but that was how his year started.
 
2012-07-09 01:34:27 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: That

Agreed.


Ha. What was I trying to say? Halladay, you never know, he got hurt all the time in Toronto and maybe that dragged down the half-season that he pitched. It amazes me how injury-free he has been in Philly until this year.

Maddux is a weird case because his strikeouts were always low. How the heck did he put up a 2.62 era and not get a single Cy Young vote? Bartolo Colon got one and he made like 15 starts!
 
2012-07-09 01:37:49 PM  

Dafatone: Let me get a little more NL griping in. Why is Bryce Harper an allstar? I know he's a draw, and that's the reason. And he's going to make another dozen all star teams, sure. But he's behind Scott Hairston in WAR.


He was in All-Star Final Vote. The people spoke, dude. Although I doubt he was on Twitter telling people to vote for him (*cough*nickswisher*cough).
 
2012-07-09 01:39:01 PM  

Dafatone: Halladay, you never know, he got hurt all the time in Toronto and maybe that dragged down the half-season that he pitched. It amazes me how injury-free he has been in Philly until this year.


I'm honestly amazed that the Giants haven't put Lincecum on the DL with "tendonitis" or something. Maybe they don't realize that other teams fake DL trips all the time? I mean, shoot, the D-backs have ALREADY pulled out the injury card to explain away Trevor Bauer's first two starts.

Dafatone: Maddux is a weird case because his strikeouts were always low. How the heck did he put up a 2.62 era and not get a single Cy Young vote? Bartolo Colon got one and he made like 15 starts!


I just keep staring at that. It makes absolutely no sense.
 
2012-07-09 01:39:40 PM  
Smoke more pot Timmy, that'll fix things.
 
2012-07-09 01:40:31 PM  

Marisyana: He was in All-Star Final Vote. The people spoke, dude.


Not so much. David Freese won the vote, and that was after one of the 5 guys "dropped out" (by being named to the team anyway).

Harper is in to replace Giancarlo Stanton.

Actually, out of the 5 NL final vote guys, 4 are in. Poor Aaron Hill.

Only 2 of the 5 AL guys are in, though.
 
2012-07-09 02:05:59 PM  
MugzyBrown: Wow it all fits.. even the evil ERA and W/L record. No need to see if his BABIP is high or whatever silly stat you want to pull up. You don't even need stats, you can just watch the game and see his opponents rounding the bases.

Now that's just crazy talk! Evaluate a guy with your very own eyes v. a bunch of stats nerds making up ever-more ridiculous metrics to slap on a player.

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Smoke more pot Timmy, that'll fix things.

Come on stats nerds, try to quantify that. Indica v. Sativa? What about hash? Bong v. pipe v. joint?

/Not a fan of stats nerds
//Obviously
 
2012-07-09 02:08:54 PM  

Henry Holland: /Not a fan of stats nerds
//Obviously


so Bill James and Billy Beane have no right to be involved with baseball?
 
2012-07-09 02:09:55 PM  
Henry Holland: /Not a fan of stats nerds
//Obviously

so Bill James and Billy Beane have no right to be involved with baseball?


Quite the logical leap there.
 
2012-07-09 02:14:08 PM  

Henry Holland: Evaluate a guy with your very own eyes v. a bunch of stats nerds making up ever-more ridiculous metrics to slap on a player.


Yeah, because your eyes NEVER lie, and you perfectly understand the underlying parts of what actually happens in baseball.

Also, I'm assuming you've been a professional scout for a couple of decades.
 
2012-07-09 02:16:34 PM  

MugzyBrown: Henry Holland: /Not a fan of stats nerds
//Obviously

so Bill James and Billy Beane have no right to be involved with baseball?

Quite the logical leap there.


One might say that my leap took a rather hyperbolic course.
 
2012-07-09 02:19:22 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Yeah, because your eyes NEVER lie


Confirmation bias is a lie concocted by the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires.
 
2012-07-09 02:19:42 PM  

Uncle Pooky: Yes, "sucks" is an emotional response based on a complete blind eye to any statistics. Still, he pisses me off.


DeWayne Mann:

Yeah, who wants a catcher with a 101 wRC+? Terrible.

You know what I want? A DH with a 70 wRC+. MICHAEL YOUNG FOR MVP.


Get some sleep dude, because your reading comprehension is terrible today.
 
Displayed 50 of 145 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report