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(Talking Points Memo)   John Roberts had been hinting for months he would hold up Obamacare, but Republicans were blind to his clues because they operated on assumption. And you know what they say about assumption; it makes an ass out of u and mption   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 48
    More: Followup, obamacare, Republican, concurring opinions  
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2407 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Jul 2012 at 11:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-09 11:07:19 AM
Given how much uproar there was about the "politicized court" and how many people were saying the Court would lose all legitimacy, I'd say plenty of Dems were blind too
 
2012-07-09 11:15:23 AM
Subby: "Hold up" means to delay (or to rob). "Uphold" means to reaffirm.

You're welcome.
 
2012-07-09 11:17:09 AM
In hindsight, sure, he definitely telegraphed that he thought the penalty and the mandate itself were inseparable. At the time though, he looked like he was in the middle just like Kennedy was, and we all know where Kennedy ended up.
 
2012-07-09 11:17:48 AM
Roberts voted WITH Kagan, Sotomayor, Ginsburg and Breyer....that's the only relevant fact to the discussion, the rest is irrelevant.


I blame Bush.

For turning over the office to someone not constitutionally eligible!
 
2012-07-09 11:19:30 AM
Republicans were blind because they refuse to look around them and listen to what anybody with a different opinion might have to say. To them, there is only 1 opinion. 1 perspective. Anybody who isn't completely on board with that agenda is a 'Socialist'.

I can't wait till they implode after this election that they think they will sweep.
 
2012-07-09 11:23:48 AM
TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!
 
2012-07-09 11:27:36 AM

iron_city_ap: Republicans were blind because they refuse to look around them and listen to what anybody with a different opinion might have to say. To them, there is only 1 opinion. 1 perspective. Anybody who isn't completely on board with that agenda is a 'Socialist'.


As a general point maybe, but in this specific instance, Democrats had no clue either. It's really just that it's hard as hell to tell the complex legal opinion of 9 people just based on the questions they ask and don't ask.

In other words, this isn't much of a story. If you can only tell in hindsight, then it obviously wasn't telegraphed all that hard.
 
2012-07-09 11:28:39 AM
Those were some damn subtle "hints" TPM came up with during their Monday Morning quarterbacking. Obviously, no one saw this coming.
 
2012-07-09 11:32:03 AM

randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: We won! We won!


They did.
 
2012-07-09 11:32:18 AM

randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


RTFA. Subby's headline does not match the article (shocker). The TPM article does not imply that they knew all along, nor does it criticize Repubs for not predicting the outcome.
/And yes, libs did win this one. Big time.
 
2012-07-09 11:33:09 AM
Now that I think about it, I totally saw the Heat beating the Thunder in five.
 
2012-07-09 11:34:48 AM

randomjsa: TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along


No they aren't.
 
2012-07-09 11:35:41 AM
Don't feed the troll.
 
2012-07-09 11:38:48 AM

randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


They did win, and they did tell you so. It doesn't matter if you think SCOTUS has the right to thought-police liberals and dictate that what they intended as a penalty is therefore covered under Congress' right to collect taxes (go on and hold that thought simultaneously as you dictate that any liberal that tells you to shut your ignorant mouth is infringing on your freedom of speech).

Spin and message control isn't working out so well these days, is it? To claim you're right (you aren't) you're now required to claim that SCOTUS has the right to thought-police people and declare their intent (a far cry from what makes a law permissible), which speaks nothing of the fact that, on SCOTUS' ruling, you were simply wrong.
 
2012-07-09 11:39:20 AM

randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


Obama predicted it would be upheld. Many Liberals did. Many Liberals feared it would be overturned. Conservatives were very confident it would be shot down so they have the most egg on their face.

TPM article does indicate some hints (I wouldn't say a trail of hints) that it could be upheld but not really how it would be upheld. It is almost as if Roberts shifted his strategy in terms of the way he would uphold it at some point.
 
2012-07-09 11:39:47 AM

randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: We won! We won!


They did.

If you insist on looking at politics like a team sport, their team beat your team really bad.

They won. You lost.
 
2012-07-09 11:40:10 AM

randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


If the strategy I teach my basketball team is to attack the basket, yet we win a 90-82 game by hitting 15 3-pointers to only 6 points in the paint, did my team lose?

You can say I used a bad strategy, but you can't disregard the fact that the outcome (the scoreboard, or PPACA as valid Federal law) was what we were seeking anyway.
 
2012-07-09 11:42:31 AM

randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


You know, in every thread where you pop up, you are utterly annihilated by facts within 15 minutes. That either makes you the most determined person in the world or the most retarded.
 
2012-07-09 11:45:11 AM

coeyagi: That either makes you the most determined person in the world or the most retarded.


People respond to him as though he is remotely serious over and over. No matter how ridiculous his comments.

Considering his current line of reasoning, I am assuming he is sitting at his office quietly commending himself for "winning" this thread since everybody is now focused on him.
 
2012-07-09 11:45:59 AM

coeyagi: randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!

You know, in every thread where you pop up, you are utterly annihilated by facts within 15 minutes. That either makes you the most determined person in the world or the most retarded.


Developmentally challenged people can be determined also.

/just saying
 
2012-07-09 11:47:54 AM

bulldg4life: coeyagi: That either makes you the most determined person in the world or the most retarded.

People respond to him as though he is remotely serious over and over. No matter how ridiculous his comments.

Considering his current line of reasoning, I am assuming he is sitting at his office quietly commending himself for "winning" this thread since everybody is now focused on him.


Well in fairness, the TPM article's headline isn't well supported. Conservatives should not have been so positive it would be overturned but neither was their much evidence predicting the contrary.
 
2012-07-09 11:48:41 AM

The Homer Tax: randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: We won! We won!

They did.

If you insist on looking at politics like a team sport, their team beat your team really bad.

They won. You lost.


verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-07-09 11:54:35 AM

coeyagi: randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!

You know, in every thread where you pop up, you are utterly annihilated by facts within 15 minutes. That either makes you the most determined person in the world or the most retarded.


I think that makes him an Internet Republican, actually.

/also known as a "fark independent"
 
2012-07-09 12:09:54 PM

randomjsa: weak ass crap


Quiet, everyone! A retarded idiot is jamming his head up his ass!
 
2012-07-09 12:43:38 PM

NateGrey: randomjsa: Obama and Liberals: We won! We won!

They did.


Obama can certainly call this a "win," although liberals (actual liberals I mean) would have preferred single payer/Medicare for all. ACA is a small step in the right direction, but it is far from a "liberal" policy.
 
2012-07-09 12:47:43 PM
Subby, the correct phrase is: "You know what they say about assuming? It makes an ass out of U and Ming."

24.media.tumblr.com

And you don't want to make an ass out of Ming.
 
2012-07-09 12:48:34 PM
Obviously John Roberts was born in Kenya and worships Allah and therefore Mitt Romney is automatically the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS.
 
2012-07-09 12:58:44 PM

Edsel: Subby, the correct phrase is: "You know what they say about assuming? It makes an ass out of U and Ming."


When in doubt I just use the french pronunciation: assù.
 
2012-07-09 01:57:09 PM
Roberts in a separate case made an apparent allusion to the court's legacy and credibility - a consideration that was weighing heavily on him.

I dread the thought of how TEA-tastic the next "conservative" justice nominated by the GOP will be, in reaction to Roberts turning out to be too thinky.
 
2012-07-09 02:01:28 PM

Dr. Mojo PhD: They did win, and they did tell you so.


In as much as they said something was "blue" and somebody else said it was "red" and the authority on the subject said it was "purple" and now the people who said it was "blue" are claiming they were right all along I guess.
 
2012-07-09 02:04:16 PM

randomjsa: In as much as they said something was "blue" and somebody else said it was "red" and the authority on the subject said it was "purple" and now the people who said it was "blue" are claiming they were right all along I guess.


No, in as much as they told you it was Constitutional, you said it wasn't, and the authority on the subject officially ruled that it was and it still remains a law.

That's how. The part when you didn't win is the part where you lost. Your team was the loser in this one, you can't spin it any other way. You lost, and the country is better off for it.

Now say something else where you pretend like you didn't lose, it's getting funnier every time.
 
2012-07-09 02:44:26 PM

The Homer Tax: randomjsa: In as much as they said something was "blue" and somebody else said it was "red" and the authority on the subject said it was "purple" and now the people who said it was "blue" are claiming they were right all along I guess.

No, in as much as they told you it was Constitutional, you said it wasn't, and the authority on the subject officially ruled that it was and it still remains a law.

That's how. The part when you didn't win is the part where you lost. Your team was the loser in this one, you can't spin it any other way. You lost, and the country is better off for it.

Now say something else where you pretend like you didn't lose, it's getting funnier every time.


I am sure the goalposts will now shift to how he thinks the country lost.

//randomjsa - now with 50% more uncited conjecture!
 
2012-07-09 03:31:17 PM

randomjsa: Dr. Mojo PhD: They did win, and they did tell you so.

In as much as they said something was "blue" and somebody else said it was "red" and the authority on the subject said it was "purple" and now the people who said it was "blue" are claiming they were right all along I guess.


You made your extremely dull point. Now go back to your bridge and nibble your toes like a good little troll.
 
2012-07-09 03:41:43 PM

randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!


You can search for my posts on the days of the oral arguments. I'm just a scrub lawyer of no particular accomplishment or insight, but after hearing the lawyers argue and the questions the Judges asked, I pretty much publicly called the exact legal conclusion they came to.
 
2012-07-09 03:46:25 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Roberts in a separate case made an apparent allusion to the court's legacy and credibility - a consideration that was weighing heavily on him.

I dread the thought of how TEA-tastic the next "conservative" justice nominated by the GOP will be, in reaction to Roberts turning out to be too thinky.


In the same way that Roberts was seen as a reaction to Souter?

I wonder when they will realize that "able to think critically" and "ideologically reliable and pure" are incompatible skill sets?
 
2012-07-09 03:57:14 PM

Magorn: randomjsa: TPM is a bunch of freaking morons making things up as it pleases them... As usual.

Nobody had a clue what the ruling was going to be. The entire argument for a year, on all sides, didn't even remotely resemble what Roberts finally said about the law. TPM is now trying to pretend that we knew all along and that Republicans were just in denial over the whole thing.

No we didn't know, TPM didn't know, and legions of experts for and against ObamaCare didn't see it coming either.

Obama and Liberals: This isn't a tax and its covered by the Commerce Clause...

Court: This isn't covered by the Commerce Clause and it is a tax...

Obama and Liberals: We won! We won! See we told you!

You can search for my posts on the days of the oral arguments. I'm just a scrub lawyer of no particular accomplishment or insight, but after hearing the lawyers argue and the questions the Judges asked, I pretty much publicly called the exact legal conclusion they came to.


I was in Seattle visiting my brother with the rest of our family the day they heard arguments on the Anti-Injunction Act (my niece with Down syndrome and a hole in her heart had been born less than two weeks prior). I am certain that when I read through the transcript, I noticed Roberts's comment on how the mandate was completely inseparable from the attached penalty and mentioned that fact to the family. My parents played it off as pointless since it was clearly not an exercise of the Taxing and Spending Clause. I had to stifle my laughter when they complained about it being a tax last week.
 
2012-07-09 04:05:29 PM
Conservatives were furious with what they deemed a betrayal.

SCOTUS IS NOT A POLITICAL ENTITY!

Constitution, Christianity, Poverty, Taxes, Public Education, Women's Health, etc........why is it that the things that conservatives are so obsessed about are the things they know next to nothing about?
 
2012-07-09 04:08:07 PM

ArkAngel: Given how much uproar there was about the "politicized court" and how many people were saying the Court would lose all legitimacy, I'd say plenty of Dems were blind too


The Court is still politicized, sadly.
 
2012-07-09 04:19:42 PM

SphericalTime: ArkAngel: Given how much uproar there was about the "politicized court" and how many people were saying the Court would lose all legitimacy, I'd say plenty of Dems were blind too

The Court is still politicized, sadly.


Ya, considering the Obamacare ruling should have easily been 9-0 to uphold, they're ridiculously politicized, and even corrupt (farking Thomas).
 
2012-07-09 05:11:39 PM

Citrate1007: SCOTUS IS NOT A POLITICAL ENTITY!


It's designed to be insulated as much as possible from politics. However, the insulation is imperfect.
 
2012-07-09 05:12:45 PM

Citrate1007: Conservatives were furious with what they deemed a betrayal.

SCOTUS IS NOT A POLITICAL ENTITY!

Constitution, Christianity, Poverty, Taxes, Public Education, Women's Health, etc........why is it that the things that conservatives are so obsessed about are the things they know next to nothing about?


Be fair, the things that they are obsessed with are a mere minuscule sub-set of the things they know nothing about.
 
2012-07-09 05:23:10 PM

Abner Doon: SphericalTime: ArkAngel: Given how much uproar there was about the "politicized court" and how many people were saying the Court would lose all legitimacy, I'd say plenty of Dems were blind too

The Court is still politicized, sadly.

Ya, considering the Obamacare ruling should have easily been 9-0 to uphold, they're ridiculously politicized, and even corrupt (farking Thomas).


No, Thomas is too stupid to be corrupt.
 
2012-07-09 05:35:38 PM
I've been saying "Assumption makes an ass out of 'u' and 'mption'" for years and I'm thrilled to see somebody else say it.
 
2012-07-10 01:09:24 AM

Abner Doon: Ya, considering the Obamacare ruling should have easily been 9-0 to uphold, they're ridiculously politicized, and even corrupt (farking Thomas).


Not to mention the shiatload of fark that was Citizens United. I'm not sure if that's politicisation so much as it is blatant corruption, but still, what the hell.

/Guys, he'd stop threadshiatting if you'd stop responding.
 
2012-07-10 06:08:31 AM

Gyrfalcon: Abner Doon: SphericalTime: ArkAngel: Given how much uproar there was about the "politicized court" and how many people were saying the Court would lose all legitimacy, I'd say plenty of Dems were blind too

The Court is still politicized, sadly.

Ya, considering the Obamacare ruling should have easily been 9-0 to uphold, they're ridiculously politicized, and even corrupt (farking Thomas).

No, Thomas is too stupid to be corrupt.


Considering his wife's gig I'm surprised Thomas didn't recuse himself on this one.

/No, not really.
 
2012-07-10 09:04:42 AM
Why all the speculation about what John Roberts' motives?

It is the JOB of the Justices of the Supreme Court to objectively look at laws passed by Congress, when challenged, and decide if they are acceptable within the limits of Constitution.

They are appointed for life so they don't have to answer to an electorate. This ostensibly is to make them "above party" and able to objectively examine laws.

Is it really so hard to believe that that's what he did? And that that's why he did it: because it's his job?
 
2012-07-10 12:07:59 PM
John Roberts had been hinting for months he would hold up Obamacare, but Republicans farking everyone with a microphone were blind to his clues because they operated on assumption.
 
2012-07-10 07:33:45 PM

randomjsa: Dr. Mojo PhD: They did win, and they did tell you so.

In as much as they said something was "blue" and somebody else said it was "red" and the authority on the subject said it was "purple" and now the people who said it was "blue" are claiming they were right all along I guess.


Haha, yep. That's exactly what happened.

Only guess what, loser freak piece of shiat?

Blue is legal and constitutional, purple is legal and constitutional, red is illegal and unconstitutional.

Legal and constitutional is right. Sorry, your team screwed up again. Your pathetic loser piece-of-shiat team farked up yet another thing in a litany of fark-ups.
 
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