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(Detroit Free Press)   Woman slow grinding with off-duty Detroit cop at party never got to ask whether it was a gun or he was happy to see her   (freep.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, Detroit, Smith & Wesson, semiautomatic pistols, front porch, KATHLEEN GALLIGAN  
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15597 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2012 at 9:09 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-09 10:31:34 AM  

Arthurgoboom: wrenchboy: Okie_Gunslinger: So he was using an inside the waistband holster and somehow the gun shot up into her heart and lungs? This doesn't add up at all.

Was she on her knees?

Exactly what I was going to suggest. What they call a "hug", we here on fark call a BJ.


Either that or she did come up from behind him, standing, and he had the gun in a shoulder rig that would have the muzzle pointed straight backward.

it still wouldn't fire unless someone pulled the trigger, though.
 
2012-07-09 10:42:33 AM  
A proper IWB holster covers the trigger. Nothing has been said about the officers body position at the time (he was dancing) If he was bent at the waist it would change the angle of the barrel. The holster could have rocked forward also changing the angle. If the girl who was shot had pushed against against the holster that could have changed the angle as well as pushed the gun up and out of the holster enough for the trigger to be engaged.

The facts of this case are known only to a few. Everything else is speculation.

/All that said, I don't like striker fired, pre-cocked pistols.
 
2012-07-09 10:45:03 AM  
♫ 'Cos if you like it then you shouldn't bust a cap in it...if you like it then you shouldn't bust a cap in it, don't be mad when the cop get 'way wit it, cause if you like it then you shouldn't bust a cap in it♫

/Whoa oh ohhhh, oh oh ohhh, oh oh ohhhh.
 
2012-07-09 10:45:21 AM  
Black people problems?
 
2012-07-09 10:47:04 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Guns don't kill people, especially in the hands of responsible owners.



All still correct. Something is fishy about this story.
 
2012-07-09 10:49:04 AM  

fnordest: A proper IWB holster covers the trigger. Nothing has been said about the officers body position at the time (he was dancing) If he was bent at the waist it would change the angle of the barrel. The holster could have rocked forward also changing the angle. If the girl who was shot had pushed against against the holster that could have changed the angle as well as pushed the gun up and out of the holster enough for the trigger to be engaged.

The facts of this case are known only to a few. Everything else is speculation.

/All that said, I don't like striker fired, pre-cocked pistols.


And who the hell wears a holster to a party in his own house?!
 
2012-07-09 10:54:37 AM  
He was just carrying condition one. Whoops his bad.
 
2012-07-09 10:55:02 AM  
 
2012-07-09 10:59:35 AM  

Callous: Jim_Callahan: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Guns don't just "go off". Especially when they're in a holster. I call shenanigans.

This. Do we have a link to this story from an actual news organization? Detroit free press is more "RESURRECTED ELVIS GIVES BIRTH TO ALIEN MOTHER"-level journalism than actual news, given the source link we can't be sure there was a shooting incident of any kind or that if there was anyone was injured in any way.

elguerodiablo: How did she die from a wound that was probably in her foot or leg? I guess it could have hit an artery or something but this hole thing is a bit weird.

Police-issue guns are usually .38 special or more powerful, take one of those through the inside of your leg, get a bit unlucky, and you can bleed out pretty fast.

Albeit, if you're dancing, you're generally in a place that serves alcohol for 50%+ of its income. I'm pretty sure off-duty officers aren't exempt from the federal laws against carrying a firearm in such places, which is sort of another reason I'm rather suspecting this entire story is imaginary.

The article states that the party was at the officer's house not a club or restaurant.

IT also states that he was carrying a S&W .40 caliber semi-auto. I would put money on it being an M&P.

There is no federal law against carrying in places that serve alcohol. Though most states do prohibit it.

Links to other news sources have been posted and one stated that she was hit in the upper body. If the gun was holstered that doesn't make sense unless she was sitting or laying on the floor or squatted down.


Get low get low get low


/from the window
//from the wall
 
2012-07-09 11:04:11 AM  

NotSubby: I call bullshiat. Nobody even lives in Detroit.


You may be right. She didn't live. In Detroit.
 
2012-07-09 11:04:39 AM  
"If you're at a party, she asked, "why do you need a weapon with a round in the chamber?""

Now I call shinanagens as much as anyone but WTF good is carrying a gun that is not loaded. Someone goes to attack you and you say "hold on a sec while I rack a round" The only time I have my sidearm with me and don't have a round in the chamber is when I leave it unattended in my truck and I unload it in case someone either borrows my truck or a kid somehow gets in it (magazine and gun go in separate compartments).
 
2012-07-09 11:05:10 AM  

LoneDoggie: Your gun is digging in my hip, ARRHRAHAAA


Lt. Einhorn?
 
2012-07-09 11:16:58 AM  

FarkerinMN: The only time I have my sidearm with me and don't have a round in the chamber is when I leave it unattended in my truck and I unload it in case someone either borrows my truck or a kid somehow gets in it (magazine and gun go in separate compartments).


In my state, the person who borrowed the truck would still be a felon if they didn't have a carry license. The law doesn't care if the gun is loaded or not, it's still "carrying without a license".
 
2012-07-09 11:19:56 AM  

fnordest: A proper IWB holster covers the trigger. Nothing has been said about the officers body position at the time (he was dancing) If he was bent at the waist it would change the angle of the barrel. The holster could have rocked forward also changing the angle. If the girl who was shot had pushed against against the holster that could have changed the angle as well as pushed the gun up and out of the holster enough for the trigger to be engaged.

The facts of this case are known only to a few. Everything else is speculation.

/All that said, I don't like striker fired, pre-cocked pistols.


I think my British cousins might be wondering why she was flirting with a guy who was a bit bent at the waist.
 
2012-07-09 11:45:15 AM  

Okie_Gunslinger: So he was using an inside the waistband holster and somehow the gun shot up into her heart and lungs? This doesn't add up at all.


This is easily explainable. You just obviously have not ever watched anyone break dancing.
 
2012-07-09 11:50:36 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Guns don't kill people, especially in the hands of responsible owners.


Totally agree. It's pretty clear that there was some incredibly irresponsible handling of a firearm going on here.
 
2012-07-09 12:02:52 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: wrenchboy: Okie_Gunslinger: So he was using an inside the waistband holster and somehow the gun shot up into her heart and lungs? This doesn't add up at all.

Was she on her knees?

[i50.tinypic.com image 640x413]


*tap tap tap*

/"faaaark... fark, fark fark... fark... motherfarker!"
 
2012-07-09 12:13:03 PM  
Jeez what the hell the last time my gun went off by "accident" all I got was laughed at.
 
2012-07-09 12:45:41 PM  
farm8.staticflickr.com

What. The. F***.
 
2012-07-09 12:47:19 PM  
It was a gun. Next question?
 
2012-07-09 12:59:37 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: fnordest: A proper IWB holster covers the trigger. Nothing has been said about the officers body position at the time (he was dancing) If he was bent at the waist it would change the angle of the barrel. The holster could have rocked forward also changing the angle. If the girl who was shot had pushed against against the holster that could have changed the angle as well as pushed the gun up and out of the holster enough for the trigger to be engaged.

The facts of this case are known only to a few. Everything else is speculation.

/All that said, I don't like striker fired, pre-cocked pistols.

And who the hell wears a holster to a party in his own house?!



I think that's an interesting question.

Article mentions the cop works patrol, plainclothes work might have explained carrying the gun IWB and forgetting or not getting around to removing it prior to the party at his house.

And as others have said, the M&P is a pretty nice, reliable weapon. It's not prone to unintended discharges. Even a negligent discharge would be a pretty good trick without the gun having been partially drawn first.

And if the woman actually was shot in the chest, I can't see any scenario where the "she grabbed me from behind and the gun accidentally discharged" theory has any basis in reality.

I think given the comments that she'd gotten a little flirty, I can see a scenario where the wife gets pissed, things get cat-fighty, the wife wants to show the perceived whore who she's messing with, grabs for the gun, scuffle ensues, round's discharged.

Seems a little more plausible than 'wife runs into bedroom, gets gun & shoots woman in chest; husband gets party guests to coverup'.
 
2012-07-09 01:40:34 PM  

Franko: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 492x408]

What. The. F***.


Also: E-An?

Really?
 
2012-07-09 01:54:06 PM  

Franko: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 492x408]

What. The. F***.


Where is the father in that family pic?
 
2012-07-09 02:04:53 PM  

Kevin72: Franko: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 492x408]

What. The. F***.

Where is the father in that family pic?


He's at work.
 
2012-07-09 02:31:40 PM  

spentmiles: Kevin72: Franko: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 492x408]

What. The. F***.

Where is the father in that family pic?

He's at work.


I'mFineWithThat.jpg
 
2012-07-09 02:31:50 PM  

elguerodiablo: How did she die from a wound that was probably in her foot or leg? I guess it could have hit an artery or something but this hole thing is a bit weird.


Femoral artery in the thigh. Basically your blood-supply drops out of you all of the sudden. If you lose over 50% of your blood, even if they top you off again, you can still go into organ failure.
 
2012-07-09 02:34:48 PM  
Poor policeman. He's going to have an angry ghost in his house now.
 
2012-07-09 03:19:05 PM  
There's nothing to indicate the type of holster. There are some (generation 1, "versa-carry") holsters without any sort of trigger guardcover , which could indeed go off if something got into the trigger ring area.

The angle of the hit required to enter her heart and lungs suggests that she was either "crounched-and-rising" beside/behind him, or it wasn't the waistband holster as described.

I'm inclined to agree that an underarm holster makes more sense in terms of Occams razor, and would simply position the victim somewhere behind him, but I suspect it makes the weapon's accidental discharge a little more unlikely.

The idea of "leaning forward" at the time, changing the angle is at least "more" viable.

As for the mixed reports regarding positions at the time the shot went off, there's going to be witnesses who turned around to look after hearing a bang, and likely saw the officer after the shot was fired, possibly trying to help her out. The image is imprinted at that point because they may not have had any reason to look at them before the gunshot.

Or, you get folks that were there, who don't want to be left out of the drama, and just make up stories.. if they heard anything being squealed-out by neighboring "witnesses" they likely repeated that info. The media, of course, is not very discerning about who they question with regards to a story of this nature.

Personally, I know this is sort of "hindsight reasoning" but dancing with a gun that's not in a secure retention position, without a significant trigger/hammer guard, seems kinda' obvious in terms of being a bad idea. However, familiarity breeds contempt, I guess.

The gun type wasn't listed, but I've heard of situations where the hammer was caught on a carrier's fabric, and pulled to a partially-cocked position.. not enough to permit the gun to hold the hammer back, awaiting the trigger to release it, but enough to accidentally discharge the firearm when the hammer came free from the fabric.
 
2012-07-09 03:33:52 PM  

FarkerinMN: "If you're at a party, she asked, "why do you need a weapon with a round in the chamber?""

Now I call shinanagens as much as anyone but WTF good is carrying a gun that is not loaded.


"Loaded" doesn't necessarily mean "round in the chamber".

/hth, hand
 
2012-07-09 03:51:48 PM  
FTA: The weapon, a department-issued, 40-caliber Smith & Wesson semiautomatic pistol, was in a holster worn inside the officer's waistband and was covered by his shirt, Goldpaugh said.

How does hugging someone from the front or the back result in a discharge of a holstered gun that would hit a person standing in front or behind him? Wouldn't it have shot downard into his leg instead? I guess it could happen if he was bent over and she was behind him, grabbing at his waist... But still, he would've been bending way down... I mean WAY down.
 
2012-07-09 03:56:29 PM  

platedlizard: elguerodiablo: How did she die from a wound that was probably in her foot or leg? I guess it could have hit an artery or something but this hole thing is a bit weird.

Femoral artery in the thigh. Basically your blood-supply drops out of you all of the sudden. If you lose over 50% of your blood, even if they top you off again, you can still go into organ failure.


Except that from early reports she was shot in the chest.
 
2012-07-09 04:34:08 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: fnordest: A proper IWB holster covers the trigger. Nothing has been said about the officers body position at the time (he was dancing) If he was bent at the waist it would change the angle of the barrel. The holster could have rocked forward also changing the angle. If the girl who was shot had pushed against against the holster that could have changed the angle as well as pushed the gun up and out of the holster enough for the trigger to be engaged.

The facts of this case are known only to a few. Everything else is speculation.

/All that said, I don't like striker fired, pre-cocked pistols.

And who the hell wears a holster to a party in his own house?!


Someone who lives in Detroit.

Hell, if I lived in Detroit, I'd probably have about 6 guns on me AND a mounted machine gun on my car.
 
2012-07-09 05:45:35 PM  
Link

[Police Chief] Godbee said the gun was in a waist holster made of soft material, which would have allowed the trigger to be activated. He said there's no evidence the officer fired the gun, and he believes the gun discharged after Miller hugged the officer from behind during a party at the officer's home.

"There was some manipulation along the officer's waistline (that) he did not control," Godbee told reporters.



Okay, so maybe she was messing with his pants. I'm still having a hard time envisioning the holster angle required for a shot to hit her lungs and heart unless she was kneeling.
 
2012-07-09 05:56:39 PM  

Bullseyed:
You can't believe anything the liberal AP posts.


If you think you can believe technical details of stories from any other news source, that just means you haven't checked. A friend of mine claimed the WSJ "wasn't like that", so we looked closely the next time they covered a plane crash and found just as many errors. Really, it's everywhere.

After I got a private pilot license, I noticed other pilots always biatching about the aviation news coverage, so started paying attention. Considering there's public online access to the NTSB, it was easy to verify the media's claims...and in 15 years I have found very few stories that didn't have multiple unambiguous errors. I'm talking about stuff like the type of plane (I recall reading about an incident on a "Boeing L1011", for example), flight number/tail number, what direction they were flying, number of people on-board, weather conditions, confusing MSL and AGL, and so on.

Since then I've started spot-checking random stories in some other technical fields, and they're all as bad as aviation news. Not only do they get things wrong, it's painfully clear they don't give a crap, either. Since we don't punish them for being wrong, all that matters is being first.
 
2012-07-09 06:13:18 PM  
So we are supposed to believe that this off duty cop was carrying a gun, with the safety off, a round in the chamber, in a waistband holster under his shirt, when it accidentally went off. The bullet hits the girl in her chest, goes through her lung, hits her in the heart.

Sorry, not buying it.

/I'll take "Crooked cops for $1,000, Alex".
 
2012-07-09 11:09:29 PM  

Franko: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 492x408]

What. The. F***.


Bravo, sir.
 
2012-07-09 11:21:41 PM  

JuggleGeek: So we are supposed to believe that this off duty cop was carrying a gun, with the safety off, a round in the chamber, in a waistband holster under his shirt, when it accidentally went off. The bullet hits the girl in her chest, goes through her lung, hits her in the heart.

Sorry, not buying it.

/I'll take "Crooked cops for $1,000, Alex".


The M&P 40 doesn't have a standard safety that can be engaged/disengaged by default. The .45 model offers a thumb safety as an optional add-on.

Its safety features are similar to those of the Glock in that uses a firing pin block that won't allow the firing pin to release unless the trigger is engaged and pulled rearward.

So....even if the cop was only wearing a soft nylon or neoprene IWB holster, there's no conceivable way the trigger could be "activated" without at least partially drawing the firearm.
 
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