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(Salt Lake Tribune)   American zionists continue to insist on their right to build settlements where they're not wanted   (sltrib.com) divider line 65
    More: Obvious, Zion National Park, R-Utah, water conservations, transportation bill, subdivisions, backcountry, Park Service, The Tribune  
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12091 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2012 at 11:05 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-09 09:37:38 AM
It's private land, they should be allowed to build on it. If they can find water, electricity, and septic. When a wild fire rolls on through we shouldn't feel to bad for them, however.
 
2012-07-09 11:07:20 AM
It was the Palestinian Arab's land first.
 
2012-07-09 11:08:22 AM
Its not like they're paving a road up the Narrows and building houses, its in a far off parcel that is private land.
 
2012-07-09 11:08:38 AM
I wonder how many bites this'll get. Bravo, Subby!
 
2012-07-09 11:10:50 AM
I bet it depresses the hell out of hikers and climbers when they get up to the top of a peak and see a couple of houses mucking up the wild view.
 
2012-07-09 11:11:18 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It was the Palestinian Arab's Native American's land first.


fixed it for you.
 
2012-07-09 11:12:30 AM
+1 subby
 
2012-07-09 11:12:51 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It was the Palestinian Arab's land first.


So that would make you a Mormon, then? I can't think of any other group that'd typically say that about Utah.
 
2012-07-09 11:13:09 AM
How dare they build houses on land they own!
 
2012-07-09 11:13:25 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It was the Palestinian Arab's land first.


You know who first owned North America?
 
2012-07-09 11:13:26 AM
Zion means Jew right?
 
2012-07-09 11:14:53 AM
What are they going to do when the Feds refuse to build them a road through park land? If there is an existing road, the Park Service can refuse to upgrade it or even do any upkeep on it. Won't take long for the Mercades parade to come to a halt when the old clay road is worn down by the newly created traffic and the age old environmental conditions.
 
2012-07-09 11:15:46 AM
It's in Utah, Utah populated largely by Mormons, Mormons claim to be the lost tribe of Israel. It's all true!!!!!
 
2012-07-09 11:17:12 AM
Get the state to pass legislation blocking anything over two stories in the area.
 
2012-07-09 11:19:22 AM
Headline change: "Park continues to encroach on private land."
 
2012-07-09 11:20:50 AM
Am I the only one who read that headline as American Zombists?
 
2012-07-09 11:21:03 AM
Who'd want to move to a park full of giant flying wasps, fire breathing ants, man eating plants, and bandits...oh all those many bandits.
 
2012-07-09 11:24:16 AM
EngineerAU


What are they going to do when the Feds refuse to build them a road through park land? If there is an existing road, the Park Service can refuse to upgrade it or even do any upkeep on it. Won't take long for the Mercades parade to come to a halt when the old clay road is worn down by the newly created traffic and the age old environmental conditions.


These are vacation homes. You just take your helicopter in, no road needed.
 
2012-07-09 11:25:29 AM
Kolob Canyon? What does Mormon Jesus have to say about this?
 
2012-07-09 11:27:30 AM
The first man who had fenced in a piece of land, said "This is mine," and found people naïve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody. "
- Jean-Jacques Rousseau
 
2012-07-09 11:28:01 AM

Dirtybird971: Zion means Jew right?


Not exactly. Zion is the name of the historical homeland of the Jews. And of humans in the Matrix. (OMG a BIBLE REFERENCE!!! That movie was SO DEEP!)

Zionists are people who think the Jews should have a homeland.

Moderately intense Zionists believe that it should be THIS homeland (Israel.) Their view was compatibly with some people from the former British Empire, who wanted very much to shoo the Jews out of Europe. Hence the accelerated migration of Jews to Israel in the 1920s, and the establishment of the Jewish State post-WWII.

Militant Zionists think everybody else should GTFO of THIS homeland. Israel for Israelis, etc. (Xenophobic Nationalists. You probably know the type, every country has a few.)
 
2012-07-09 11:29:04 AM
Oh, I forgot - Comedic Zionists. They don't have a unified political agenda, but they tend to use "Florida" as a punchline when making jokes about Jewish States.
 
2012-07-09 11:31:20 AM
Whoops.

Obviously DNRTFA - Zion in this case is a biblical reference. The Mormons fled persecution in the eastern states, likened their flight to the persecution and wandering-in-the-desert of the Jews under Moses, and referred to Utah as their Zion - establishing their new homeland in Utah.
 
2012-07-09 11:35:09 AM
So let me get this straight, these insensitive bastards want to build houses on land they own, and those plans are just absolutely ruining the site lines for hikers who don't own the land? It just makes sense.
 
2012-07-09 11:35:59 AM
In my previous comment site=sight. I deal with permits too much in my life.
 
2012-07-09 11:39:21 AM

Mega Steve: How dare they build houses on land they own!


Funny how that's the Palestinian argument in a
nutshell.

/they actually had to make selling land to West Bank settlers a death penalty offense before Palestinians would stop doing it
//even the anti-Zionist fanatics know a good deal when they see it
 
2012-07-09 11:42:00 AM
Solution: EMINENT DOMAIN THE FARK OUT OF IT.

It's not a pretty industry, it's not a fun industry, but it works.
 
2012-07-09 11:43:37 AM

urban.derelict: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It was the Palestinian Arab's land first.

You know who first owned North America?


Jesus? Well, according to the Morons... I mean, Mormons.
 
2012-07-09 11:54:48 AM
dv-ous

Dirtybird971: Zion means Jew right?

Not exactly. Zion is the name of the historical homeland of the Jews. And of humans in the Matrix. (OMG a BIBLE REFERENCE!!! That movie was SO DEEP!)

Zionists are people who think the Jews should have a homeland.

Moderately intense Zionists believe that it should be THIS homeland (Israel.) Their view was compatibly with some people from the former British Empire, who wanted very much to shoo the Jews out of Europe. Hence the accelerated migration of Jews to Israel in the 1920s, and the establishment of the Jewish State post-WWII.

Militant Zionists think everybody else should GTFO of THIS homeland. Israel for Israelis, etc. (Xenophobic Nationalists. You probably know the type, every country has a few.)


wait... is this a REAL response on Fark? I'm a little gobsmacked right now.

I work with and for Hasids. And some of their attitudes and derogatory remarks(racist and "classist") really make me side with those who want all Jews to live in Isreal.
Seriously, what's the phrase that means some one or group who seemingly hates everyone who doesn't look like themselves nor would go out of their way to help someone different than them. Because every day I hear one of them put down the other goyims that are here with me.
 
2012-07-09 11:59:18 AM

WarszawaScream: Solution: EMINENT DOMAIN THE FARK OUT OF IT.

It's not a pretty industry, it's not a fun industry, but it works.


The Park Service doesnt do the Eminent Domain thing. However, should the state decide to do so and then turn the land over to the NPS, that's something different. The NPS wanted a park in the eastern US back in the '30s, along the Blue Ridge, so the state took over the land, threw all the squatters off and gave the land to the NPS, which later became Shenandoah National Park. However, seeing as how the State of Utah isn't terribly friendly to the Department of the Interior right now (read about their attempts to claim road right of ways through BLM land sometime...it's a hoot), I don't see that happening in Zion.
 
2012-07-09 12:05:19 PM
Wow. That article certainly has a certain slant to it.

It could also read: Landowners sell to private developers that seek to build homes after Park service is unable to fund land purchase.

Or Land owners choose to build houses on their land after following proper permitting procedures.

Or Whiny hikers complain that they can see houses on their get away hikes.
 
2012-07-09 12:23:58 PM
www.theblogmocracy.com

Will not fight for a zionist America.
 
2012-07-09 12:24:45 PM

starrion: Wow. That article certainly has a certain slant to it.

It could also read: Landowners sell to private developers that seek to build homes after Park service is unable to fund land purchase.

Or Land owners choose to build houses on their land after following proper permitting procedures.

Or Whiny hikers complain that they can see houses on their get away hikes.


I was just in Zion a few months back, I saw ranger stations and cars and trams... it totally ruined the naturescape for me. I can't even imagine the horror of seeing actual houses. (Never mind the fact that the houses would not possible be seen from the main canyon/tourist areas... they would be located on the fringes of the hills/plains probably 10 miles west, if not more, of the main areas.)
 
2012-07-09 12:27:38 PM

WarszawaScream: Solution: EMINENT DOMAIN THE FARK OUT OF IT.


Just for giggles, the people who have a problem with this could raise private funding to buy the land and then donate it to the park service...

I mean, if it's all just evil capitalists, just buy them out, money is the only thing they care about, right?

Certainly there's enough "care" to outweigh the price... That's got to be a better solution than the threatened violence inherent in all government seizures...
 
2012-07-09 12:27:54 PM
Oh Lord Jesus
 
2012-07-09 12:29:10 PM

Ranger Joe: WarszawaScream: Solution: EMINENT DOMAIN THE FARK OUT OF IT.

It's not a pretty industry, it's not a fun industry, but it works.

The Park Service doesnt do the Eminent Domain thing. However, should the state decide to do so and then turn the land over to the NPS, that's something different. The NPS wanted a park in the eastern US back in the '30s, along the Blue Ridge, so the state took over the land, threw all the squatters off and gave the land to the NPS, which later became Shenandoah National Park. However, seeing as how the State of Utah isn't terribly friendly to the Department of the Interior right now (read about their attempts to claim road right of ways through BLM land sometime...it's a hoot), I don't see that happening in Zion.


I've noticed that most eminent domain is done on the state level and then the land is handed over to the Feds afterwards. Curious as to why, but probably has to do with the fact that each state has their own laws and processes for ED and it's easier to have said states deal with it themselves.

Being that eminent domain as it applies to roadway right-of-way is exactly what I work in, I'm hopping merrily over to Google to check out the drama you mentioned! Might even get pinned on the corkboard in the front of my office.
 
2012-07-09 12:32:23 PM

Jim_Callahan: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It was the Palestinian Arab's land first.

So that would make you a Mormon, then? I can't think of any other group that'd typically say that about Utah.


More likely an amusing case of knee-jerk DNRTFA commenting that he'll probably try to pass off as a joke.
 
2012-07-09 12:33:59 PM
Approves

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-07-09 12:52:37 PM

starrion: Wow. That article certainly has a certain slant to it.

It could also read: Landowners sell to private developers that seek to build homes after Park service is unable to fund land purchase.

Or Land owners choose to build houses on their land after following proper permitting procedures.

Or Whiny hikers complain that they can see houses on their get away hikes.


Or owners of nearly worthless land get huge gains in property value by being surrounded by land maintained by the federal government. Maybe the park service should tell them since the land is going to be developed for housing that they're going to sell off the park land in that area to the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Wonder if they'll sing the same property rights tune when a hundred trailer parks are built in sight of their nice big homes.
 
2012-07-09 12:53:34 PM

Supracentral: WarszawaScream: Solution: EMINENT DOMAIN THE FARK OUT OF IT.

Just for giggles, the people who have a problem with this could raise private funding to buy the land and then donate it to the park service...

I mean, if it's all just evil capitalists, just buy them out, money is the only thing they care about, right?

Certainly there's enough "care" to outweigh the price... That's got to be a better solution than the threatened violence inherent in all government seizures...


They could raise the money to buy the land IF the landowner is willing to sell. But if s/he's looking to build million-dollar homes and sell it for three times what s/he spent, I don't see a sale happening.

And threatened violence? Fff that's so 1950's. We don't threaten anything these days; they send me out there to bust peoples' kneecaps before the negotiations even start.
 
2012-07-09 12:57:13 PM
Rep. Rob Bishop, R-Utah, helped lead the opposition to that funding, spokeswoman Melissa Subbotin said. That's partly because a transportation bill was no place for such an amendment, she said, but also because Bishop "is not a fan of the Land and Water Conservation Fund."

That cracks me up. Congress is infamous for slapping unrelated riders onto nearly every bill which floats by, siphoning off billions for pet projects, most of which would never make it on their own.

The most infamous of all was when President Reagan had to declare the Graham-Rudman act to keep the nation from going bankrupt. Congress was ordered to slash costs to the bone and there was a deadline for the act to be signed.

Congress presented Reagan with the Act, which they had grown to over 2000 pages, just before the deadline, forcing him to sign it without reading, to keep the nation afloat. Afterwards he discovered they had packed the act with so much special interest funds that it nearly defeated the purpose of it.

(One congressman earmarked 10 million in funds for a tiny college in his home state that didn't need that much and should not have been included anyhow.)
 
2012-07-09 01:13:39 PM
What would be awesome... let them build their multi-million dollar homes and all that good stuff... then the fed can open up the rest of the park for low cost afforadable public housing.
 
2012-07-09 01:25:18 PM
Damn. I misread the headline as "American zombies continue..." and this is not the thread I thought it was.

Carry on!
 
2012-07-09 02:13:14 PM
The Rockefellers gave Teton and Jackson Hole property to the government to become a national park and nobody has objected to the many ranches located inside the park owned and operated by the folks who held them originally. This is just some more anti Mormon propaganda to help attack Romney. The truth is that the majority of people who have that kind of money are fat cats from California and the rest of the left coast.

You can go 4 wheeling off road in Arches and Canyonlands but you can't even take your own vehicle into Denali, you have to ride Bluebird school buses. The assholes in the NPS wanted to stop people from snowmobiling on the road in Yellowstone and thank heavens Bush kicked their liberturd asses.
 
2012-07-09 02:20:34 PM

OscarTamerz: The Rockefellers gave Teton and Jackson Hole property to the government to become a national park and nobody has objected to the many ranches located inside the park owned and operated by the folks who held them originally. This is just some more anti Mormon propaganda to help attack Romney. The truth is that the majority of people who have that kind of money are fat cats from California and the rest of the left coast.

You can go 4 wheeling off road in Arches and Canyonlands but you can't even take your own vehicle into Denali, you have to ride Bluebird school buses. The assholes in the NPS wanted to stop people from snowmobiling on the road in Yellowstone and thank heavens Bush kicked their liberturd asses.


Do you really think that anybody needs to reach this far to come up with Anti-Romney propaganda?
 
2012-07-09 02:50:58 PM
www.blogcdn.com

I always knew we'd be living in futuristic houses sitting alone in the deep woods, once I grew up.

/i learned that from Sleeper
//plus we'd have the Orgasmatron
 
2012-07-09 02:52:00 PM
chuckufarlie:

Do you really think that anybody needs to reach this far to come up with Anti-Romney propaganda?


Not really.
The MSM is already on the job of smearing Romney and will continue to do so right up to the election.
 
2012-07-09 03:03:26 PM

Dirtybird971: dv-ous

Dirtybird971: Zion means Jew right?

Not exactly. Zion is the name of the historical homeland of the Jews. And of humans in the Matrix. (OMG a BIBLE REFERENCE!!! That movie was SO DEEP!)

Zionists are people who think the Jews should have a homeland.

Moderately intense Zionists believe that it should be THIS homeland (Israel.) Their view was compatibly with some people from the former British Empire, who wanted very much to shoo the Jews out of Europe. Hence the accelerated migration of Jews to Israel in the 1920s, and the establishment of the Jewish State post-WWII.

Militant Zionists think everybody else should GTFO of THIS homeland. Israel for Israelis, etc. (Xenophobic Nationalists. You probably know the type, every country has a few.)

wait... is this a REAL response on Fark? I'm a little gobsmacked right now.

I work with and for Hasids. And some of their attitudes and derogatory remarks(racist and "classist") really make me side with those who want all Jews to live in Isreal.
Seriously, what's the phrase that means some one or group who seemingly hates everyone who doesn't look like themselves nor would go out of their way to help someone different than them. Because every day I hear one of them put down the other goyims that are here with me.


The word you're looking for is probably "farking racist." I prefer "xenophobe" because it sounds cooler though.

Not to be confused with Xenophon, who was a Greek badass.

Hasids are... well... yeah. Ultra-conservative, intermarrying constantly. Individuals probably vary.

What do you do with/for them?
 
2012-07-09 03:04:51 PM

starrion: Wow. That article certainly has a certain slant to it.

It could also read: Landowners sell to private developers that seek to build homes after Park service is unable to fund land purchase.

Or Land owners choose to build houses on their land after following proper permitting procedures.

Or Whiny hikers complain that they can see houses on their get away hikes.


FTFA: "Now, arid buttes and mesas that once seemed remote are looking more like pedestals for trophy homes."

The purpose of setting aside national parks is to preserve areas like that from development. I suggest reading up on Theodore Roosevelt National Park and how he kick-started the majority of the parks we have now. I've been to a bunch of them and they're beautiful; I'm incredibly grateful that some of the people in power in the past were smart enough to realize it would be necessary to keep wild places from being ruined. Humans ruin pretty much everything like that when given the opportunity.
 
2012-07-09 03:09:08 PM
dv-ous

Not exactly. Zion is the name of the historical homeland of the Jews. And of humans in the Matrix. (OMG a BIBLE REFERENCE!!! That movie was SO DEEP!)

Zionists are people who think the Jews should have a homeland.

Moderately intense Zionists believe that it should be THIS homeland (Israel.) Their view was compatibly with some people from the former British Empire, who wanted very much to shoo the Jews out of Europe. Hence the accelerated migration of Jews to Israel in the 1920s, and the establishment of the Jewish State post-WWII.

Militant Zionists think everybody else should GTFO of THIS homeland. Israel for Israelis, etc. (Xenophobic Nationalists. You probably know the type, every country has a few.)

wait... is this a REAL response on Fark? I'm a little gobsmacked right now.

I work with and for Hasids. And some of their attitudes and derogatory remarks(racist and "classist") really make me side with those who want all Jews to live in Isreal.
Seriously, what's the phrase that means some one or group who seemingly hates everyone who doesn't look like themselves nor would go out of their way to help someone different than them. Because every day I hear one of them put down the other goyims that are here with me.

The word you're looking for is probably "farking racist." I prefer "xenophobe" because it sounds cooler though.

Not to be confused with Xenophon, who was a Greek badass.

Hasids are... well... yeah. Ultra-conservative, intermarrying constantly. Individuals probably vary.

What do you do with/for them?


I know about the intermarrying...my pricing manager married his 1st cousin and it shows in the 9 kids.

I sell plastics for them.
 
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