If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   Pakistan's late Nobel-winning physicist who predicted the Higgs particle is a national hero. Just kidding; he's been erased from their textbooks for not being Islamic enough   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 192
    More: Asinine, atoms, higgs particles, Nobel, Pakistan, Islamic, Standard Model, god, other nations  
•       •       •

8541 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2012 at 6:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



192 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-07-09 08:08:45 AM  

lohphat: miss diminutive: Enjoy your scientific, intellectual and technological dark age, you fundamentalist wingnuts.

Don't get too proud there.

The LHC has allowed mankind to expand its knowledge of the universe while here in the US we're still debating evolution in science curricula.

How can we expect progress in this country when political forces are actively destabilizing education so that the sheep keep them in power to protect them from "intellectual elitists"?


Add in that the facility that was intended to be what the LHC later was was originally intended for Texas, but the US government pulled some bullshiat with the funding and that's why it's in Europe now instead. The US isn't going to get any of the big multinational projects for another half century because of that shiat, honestly.

//Actually doesn't have all that much to do with primary school curricula, primary schooling is a clusterfark everywhere in the first world due to universal education, it's only in post-secondary where literally the entire population isn't shoved through the system that's really meaningful-- and it's more or less a multinational endeavour at the level where any research is being done regardless what country you're in.
 
2012-07-09 08:10:54 AM  

Unoriginal_Username: That's it. If we can learn to respect others, no matter what they believe, no matter where they come from, who they date etc, we will become better people. Until then, we're doomed to the cycle of fighting over bullshiat things.


Unless we have a common ground for what repsecting other means this won't work.
 
2012-07-09 08:11:10 AM  

TheotherMIguy: What I find fascinating, from a historical perspective, is that Pakistan (and by association, Bangladesh - formerly East Pakistan) have only been around for 65 years. The entire formation of those two nations was due to the frustration felt by the rest of the newly formed Indian government. Jinnah, from what I remember of my Prof's teachings, didn't actually WANT the two-state solution, he just suggested it as the far point in a barter for political gain and Muslim rights within India (the dude had a brand new house in New Delhi and was in poor health, not exactly the kind of situation you make for yourself if you really want to move to the western edge of the sub-continent). But the Indian government was so fed up by that point they said 'OK!' and farked us over today.

I still blame the British though. Without them, the sub-continent would be a vastly different place right now: Richer, probably more religiously tolerant, and less nuke happy.

/History FTW.


I remember writing an essay on Jinnah, the Muslim League and Partition for a 300-level paper on Indian history. By the end of WW2 the British were quite eager to decolonise. India was no longer making them any money - in fact it was a drain on the finances - and the British had to concentrate on rebuilding and repaying wartime debt. Anyway, they wanted out fairly quickly and the negotiations between Congress and the Muslim League weren't bearing any fruit. The British proposed to balkanise the sub-continent and turn every princely state into individual nation states. That spurred Congress and the Muslim League to agree on partition, which resulted in communal violence killing hundreds of thousands of people.
 
2012-07-09 08:12:45 AM  
doglover:

Religion is like a sport for your mind..


So religion, like sport, is a triviality? I hunk I can get behind that. Also, we can liken the Christians in this country to asshole Yankee fans who think the umps always call against them!
 
2012-07-09 08:14:07 AM  

Wolfmanjames: Malik Sardonis: It's his own fault. If he had used his scientific knowledge to contribute to the Pakistani nuclear weapons program, like all the other good scientists, he would have been a hero too.

Actually, he did.


Yep, FTFA:

"...Salam, who also guided the early stages of the country's nuclear program"
 
2012-07-09 08:14:38 AM  

Unoriginal_Username: The problem isn't whether or not you take religion in moderation, or if you are a die hard religious nut. The problem with our planet is how we treat each other. That's it. If we can learn to respect others, no matter what they believe, no matter where they come from, who they date etc, we will become better people. Until then, we're doomed to the cycle of fighting over bullshiat things.


All of the customs and qualitatives I bolded are cultural norms, meaning that for most of the world they're defined by religion and for the rest of us they're not particularly consistent even from city to city. And this is without being pedantic, if I wanted to nitpick I could point out that what a "date" is is also a cultural norm and not an absolute thing, etc.
 
2012-07-09 08:14:56 AM  
can somebody explain to me when we use the term "muslim" and when we use the term "islam" or "islamic"? Does islam/ic refer to things and ideas, but muslim refers to people?
 
2012-07-09 08:14:57 AM  

thisispete: TheotherMIguy: What I find fascinating, from a historical perspective, is that Pakistan (and by association, Bangladesh - formerly East Pakistan) have only been around for 65 years. The entire formation of those two nations was due to the frustration felt by the rest of the newly formed Indian government. Jinnah, from what I remember of my Prof's teachings, didn't actually WANT the two-state solution, he just suggested it as the far point in a barter for political gain and Muslim rights within India (the dude had a brand new house in New Delhi and was in poor health, not exactly the kind of situation you make for yourself if you really want to move to the western edge of the sub-continent). But the Indian government was so fed up by that point they said 'OK!' and farked us over today.

I still blame the British though. Without them, the sub-continent would be a vastly different place right now: Richer, probably more religiously tolerant, and less nuke happy.

/History FTW.

I remember writing an essay on Jinnah, the Muslim League and Partition for a 300-level paper on Indian history. By the end of WW2 the British were quite eager to decolonise. India was no longer making them any money - in fact it was a drain on the finances - and the British had to concentrate on rebuilding and repaying wartime debt. Anyway, they wanted out fairly quickly and the negotiations between Congress and the Muslim League weren't bearing any fruit. The British proposed to balkanise the sub-continent and turn every princely state into individual nation states. That spurred Congress and the Muslim League to agree on partition, which resulted in communal violence killing hundreds of thousands of people.


Yeah, it's been a bit since my 300 and 400 level History courses. A lot of time away from academia too. But it still boils down to what I've always said about the sub-continent. The British are at fault. Fark them for looting Bangladesh (The nation-state that existed before their incursion, not the one that exists today), fark them for turning the various faiths into 'Hinduism', fark them for pushing for Muslin-Hindi violence, fark them, fark them, fark them.

/Ok, I'm better now.
 
2012-07-09 08:15:55 AM  

SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia


I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.
 
2012-07-09 08:16:29 AM  
Stone Age dogma which seeks to prevent humanity from outgrowing it's ignorance? Color me surprised.
 
2012-07-09 08:19:15 AM  

steamingpile: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.


If churches thought they could get away with it again in the US they would. Instead they have to be content in inciting people to act for them indirectly. Ask an OBGYN in The South if they feel safe performing abortions.
 
2012-07-09 08:24:41 AM  

steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.


The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.
 
2012-07-09 08:25:36 AM  

NewportBarGuy: You can't recognize scientific genius because you're pants-on-head-retarded? That makes me very sad. What hope do we have to even think of world peace when people can't even acknowledge the brilliance of a man because of a sect of religion he belonged to?

Just nuke us from orbit.


I agree. Just...wait a tic while I get the mothership to beam me back up.
 
2012-07-09 08:25:57 AM  
Hey India, could you please just steamroll over Pakistan already? You know you want to, and besides, no one likes those duplicitous Pakis anymore.
 
2012-07-09 08:31:26 AM  

lohphat: miss diminutive: Enjoy your scientific, intellectual and technological dark age, you fundamentalist wingnuts.

Don't get too proud there.

The LHC has allowed mankind to expand its knowledge of the universe while here in the US we're still debating evolution in science curricula.

How can we expect progress in this country when political forces are actively destabilizing education so that the sheep keep them in power to protect them from "intellectual elitists"?


Hmm, how about: there is a difference in the level of anti-intellectualism that even your cultural-relativist ass shouldn't be able to overlook.
 
2012-07-09 08:35:24 AM  

liam76: doglover: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia


Yes, blame all religions. Giovanni Caselli, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday, and Issac Newton were all worthless and contributed nothing to the world because of their religious practices. Oh wait, the opposite of that.

Religion is like a sport for your mind. A Buddhist monk can focus on one thing so powerfully he doesn't even make a peep if you light him on fire with gasoline. I doubt most people could give themselves a blister on the stove while meditating without crying out in pain. Other religions have their merit, as well.

The problem isn't religion as a whole, but rather the people who take it too seriously. Just like everything else, moderation is the key. The Muslims in America are the guys who show up in the jerseys and root for the home team. The Muslims in Pakistan are the guys who start the football riots where people die. They need a serious dose of lighten the fark up in their lives.

I am pretty sure that monk woudl fall intot he "take it too seriously" category.


I disagree, on my dad's side they are irish catholic. My Great Aunt is a Nun and she works with prositutes in San Franscisco still when she is in her mid to late 90's and although is unquestionably devout she also doesnt judge and feels that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and will help anyone in need. Where at my grandmother will outright tell people that they will be going to hell and shun them.
 
2012-07-09 08:37:10 AM  

steamingpile: I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough.


Although I can't prove it, I do suspect that if American fundamentalist Christians were left to do as they wanted, without Constitutional protections for minority beliefs, you would see a whole lot of pain being rained down on the heads of those who don't believe as they do.
They are nicer than the crazies in other countries because they are compelled to be so. Not because of their better natures.
 
2012-07-09 08:40:04 AM  
Speaking of which, I'd like to thank all the climate change deniers who prayed to make yesterday's rain possible.
 
2012-07-09 08:41:20 AM  

lohphat: steamingpile: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

If churches thought they could get away with it again in the US they would. Instead they have to be content in inciting people to act for them indirectly. Ask an OBGYN in The South if they feel safe performing abortions.


Protests are not even the farking same as a violent mob coming in and hacking all the workers up then the government not arresting them for a crime but yeah its exactly the same.

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.


This is all people bring up, stuff from centuries ago people progress and realize that line of thinking was insane, that would never happen now yet the Muslims do it and most of fark's instinct is to attack ALL religions as being violent.
 
2012-07-09 08:45:12 AM  
Just tell the morons that you're working to discover "God's laws," rather than nature's laws. Problem solved and research fully funded.
 
2012-07-09 08:47:09 AM  

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.


Ahh, the ole justifying present day retardation by pointing to centuries old retardation.
The classic " but mommy, Billy did it too!!!!"
 
2012-07-09 08:48:00 AM  
It's sad, really. The ONE thing that made the U.S. special was the foresight of its Founding Fathers. They realized that, for a country to be truly great, neither Religion nor Government must hold too much power, and wrote language into the Constitution to prevent either force from becoming too large. Unfortunately, the Constitution began to be assailed by forces worshiping both sides almost immediately.
 
2012-07-09 08:49:06 AM  
Replace Islamic with Christian, and it sounds like the South.
 
2012-07-09 08:50:32 AM  

steamingpile: This is all people bring up, stuff from centuries ago people progress and realize that line of thinking was insane, that would never happen now yet the Muslims do it and most of fark's instinct is to attack ALL religions as being violent.


But, isn't ALL religion from "centuries ago"? Hell, "millennia ago" for that matter.
 
2012-07-09 08:52:55 AM  
And, I can think of more recent persecutions that christianity is responsible for.
 
2012-07-09 08:55:56 AM  

steamingpile: lohphat: steamingpile: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

If churches thought they could get away with it again in the US they would. Instead they have to be content in inciting people to act for them indirectly. Ask an OBGYN in The South if they feel safe performing abortions.

Protests are not even the farking same as a violent mob coming in and hacking all the workers up then the government not arresting them for a crime but yeah its exactly the same.

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.


This is all people bring up, stuff from centuries ago people progress and realize that line of thinking was insane, that would never happen now yet the Muslims do it and most of fark's instinct is to attack ALL religions as being violent.


If memory serves, only Buddhism has not been spread by aggression.

In other news - even Mali is experiencing "NOT MUSLIM ENOUGH" and "MAKE ME A SAMMICH" issues. Why buy her a watch? There's a clock on the fire pit. Link
 
2012-07-09 08:56:43 AM  

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.


You're aware that those events occurred several hundred years ago, right? And that what's happening in Pakistan is happening today?

Also, for the people in the thread saying "see, this is what Christians want for America!", first off good job on the broad discrimination. And secondly, yes some of them probably do.
But in a democracy people have to fight to get their point of view to the foreground. And if religious nuts are causing your country to spiral the drain, then that is a failure of all rational people, moderate religious people, atheists and agnostics (i.e. YOU!) that sat back and let it happen.

/Other than anonymously biatching about it on an internet forum, obviously.
//Best of luck with the whole political-and-intellectual-collapse-of-your-nation thing, Pakistan!
 
2012-07-09 08:57:10 AM  

HAMMERTOE: But, isn't ALL religion from "centuries ago"? Hell, "millennia ago" for that matter.


LDS & Scientology
 
2012-07-09 08:58:09 AM  
You're looking at your future, America, unless you give the theocrats the beatdown they deserve.
 
2012-07-09 08:58:23 AM  

0Icky0: steamingpile: I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough.

Although I can't prove it, I do suspect that if American fundamentalist Christians were left to do as they wanted, without Constitutional protections for minority beliefs, you would see a whole lot of pain being rained down on the heads of those who don't believe as they do.
They are nicer than the crazies in other countries because they are compelled to be so. Not because of their better natures.


No they wouldn't, you don't see Muslims going to be a volunteer in another nation to better poorer areas, most of those in this country are not even close to the nutty Muslims are.
 
2012-07-09 08:59:24 AM  

SurfaceTension: /garbled stream of consciousness


You can say that again.

You mistake the practice of a religion with the blind following of certain clergy members. That's very different.

Your rational thinking probably isn't as rational or well thought out as you think it is. A rabbi would eat you up and spit you out in a debate. Ever wonder why so many jews seem to be lawyers? Seems like half their religion is learning god's law by heart and the other half is finding way around it.

Then of course we have the horses in Voodoo, the running monks of Mt Hiei, the "whirling dervishes" of.... was it Islam? I've forgotten. The point is religion isn't the groundless belief in the irrational that you seem to think it is through and through. What it actually is a blend of various activities that can sharpen the mental and physical faculties to a razor's edge when practiced, if I may make a pun, religiously.

The atheists who say "There's no scientific proof of god." are correct. The same cannot be said of religion. It's real. It exists. It's testable. Instead of discarding it outright, you might try looking into this thing that's been around for millennia and see if maybe there's a reason it's still around. Find the regieme that gives people the mental and physical fortitude to go for 9 days (216 hours) without food, water, or rest of any kind in the middle of years of running more than a marathon daily. Link
 
2012-07-09 09:00:50 AM  

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: This is all people bring up, stuff from centuries ago people progress and realize that line of thinking was insane, that would never happen now yet the Muslims do it and most of fark's instinct is to attack ALL religions as being violent.

But, isn't ALL religion from "centuries ago"? Hell, "millennia ago" for that matter.


I was referring to acts of aggression in the name of religion, Muslims haven't let it go so to compare the two is moronic.
 
2012-07-09 09:01:11 AM  
Such a shocking move from a country that actually banned weather forecasts in newspapers for a year or 2.
 
2012-07-09 09:03:11 AM  

doglover: Yes, blame all religions. Giovanni Caselli, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday, and Issac Newton were all worthless and contributed nothing to the world because of their religious practices. Oh wait, the opposite of that.


Just imagine what Newton could have accomplished without the distractions of numerology, astrology, and alchemy.
 
2012-07-09 09:06:47 AM  

doglover:
Religion is like a sport for your mind. A Buddhist monk can focus on one thing so powerfully he doesn't even make a peep if you light him on fire with gasoline. I doubt most people could give themselves a blister on the stove while meditating without crying out in pain. Other religions have their merit, as well.


So, to tout the praises of religion, you cite how easy it let's you set people on fire. Brilliant.
 
2012-07-09 09:06:49 AM  
Welcome to Mitt Romney's America.
 
2012-07-09 09:07:41 AM  

RassilonsExWife: You're looking at your future, America, unless you give the theocrats the beatdown they deserve.


Mindless bullshiat from people who are scared of people that have faith
 
2012-07-09 09:09:10 AM  

miss
diminutive
:
Enjoy your scientific, intellectual and technological dark age, you fundamentalist wingnuts.


tobescifitakeover.files.wordpress.com

Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
 
2012-07-09 09:13:33 AM  

steamingpile: I was referring to acts of aggression in the name of religion, Muslims haven't let it go so to compare the two is moronic.


Let's see...

Irish Protestant/ Catholic aggression.
Abortion clinic violence/ intimidation.
WBC
 
2012-07-09 09:13:45 AM  

steamingpile: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.


My chapter of the KKK never lynched or killed anyone. I don't know why they lump us in with the rest of the KKK.
 
2012-07-09 09:19:15 AM  
img59.imageshack.us
 
2012-07-09 09:19:16 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: WhyteRaven74: AverageAmericanGuy: How many American Nobel laureates are named in modern American textbooks?

Well, if you stick with prize winners born in the US, then all of the literature winners are at least mentioned if not read in high school, most of the peace prize winners are standard parts of US history texts because of either what got them the Peace Prize or because they were big deals otherwise. A few might only show up in side bars in certain texts on account of winning the prize so there's that. As for all the other subjects, well economics texts mention a lot of the winners in part because at least for the first couple decades the prize was offered, they were big deals in the field. A few also show up in non-econ texts. As for the other fields, the winners of the physics prize are pretty darn well represented in various texts. Which leaves chemistry and medicine/physiology, where it's a bit dicey.

Maybe if you went to Exeter.


Doug Exeter?

exclamationmark.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-07-09 09:28:46 AM  

Tman144: ChubbyTiger: As in every facet of human existence, asshats are the problem. Unfortunately, Pakistan seems to be about 90% asshat.

Oh, come now, it can't be that bad. 60-65% tops. All it takes is 51% asshat to really mess up your day/decade.


Actually, looking back at the 20th century rise of the communists and fascists, I'd say you really only need a committed 30 - 40% to REALLY screw up a nation.
 
2012-07-09 09:31:46 AM  

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: I was referring to acts of aggression in the name of religion, Muslims haven't let it go so to compare the two is moronic.

Let's see...

Irish Protestant/ Catholic aggression.
Abortion clinic violence/ intimidation.
WBC


Superstition, or religion, is the cause of a lot of problems. Get Ric Romero on that.

Religion = Superstition + $$$$$
 
2012-07-09 09:31:46 AM  

pivazena: can somebody explain to me when we use the term "muslim" and when we use the term "islam" or "islamic"? Does islam/ic refer to things and ideas, but muslim refers to people?


Muslim literally means "one who submits", it technically refers only to the followers of the religion, not the religion itself.

Islam refers to the religion (noun) and "Islamic" to things owned by or pertaining to said religion, e.g. a mosque would be an Islamic building, not a 'muslim' building.

So, yeah, basically you've got it right. It's worth noting, though, that in English the distinction's been getting kind of blurred due to the parallel to Christianity (where the followers, the religion, and the adverb for religious artefacts all share a root) and the fact that we have some extra syntactic constructs that are technically correct but kind of confuse the issue ("the Muslim faith" is technically correct, as Islam is the faith of the muslim [noun], but that can also be parsed as Muslim being an adjective modifying 'faith' instead, a more common meaning for that sort of wording). Basically you're right but it's probably not really worth getting all that nitpicky over in English. Don't fark it up when writing in Arabic, though.

HailRobonia: Just imagine what Newton could have accomplished without the distractions of numerology, astrology, and alchemy.


To be fair to Newton on that one, Alchemy was in fact a valid branch of empiricism at the time he was publishing. In honesty, it was actually usually more rigorous than other branches of academic study, and even if you don't buy that none of the experiments that discredited many of the major alchemical theories would occur until the mid to late 1800s.

Even stuff you sort of take for granted as "oh, that's obviously unscientific" like theories about there being four/five basic elements, there being a basic component of chemical matter, etc, were not so much in the context of contemporary knowledge. The Rutherford experiment and the Brownian motion paper that sort of put Atoms into the "yup, definitely sure" category only barely predated the first World War (1911 and 1905 respectively), any time before that chemical theories espousing infinitely-divisible matter or... dramatically different elemental chemistry were logically viable alternatives.

Numerology has admittedly always been a bit silly, but even astrology wasn't fully discredited until the late 1700s, either (Newton being dead at that point).

One of the things I always try to drive into my students' heads is that our ancestors weren't stupid, and in science you need to keep an open mind about logically possible explanations until actual verification occurs. It's frequently kinda stupid to be dismissive of the beliefs of someone several hundred years back even if someone having the same belief today is unarguably a goddamned retard. And it's hard to avoid that impulse, because as children of the scientific age we always want to treat being factually wrong as somehow equivalent to being morally wrong-- a natural, but anti-empirical impulse.

//Short version: If Newton hadn't wasted his time grinding away at Alchemy, someone else of equal brain-power would have had to do the same to provide the body of literature and debate that eventually rendered it obsolete. Don't knock the guy's hobbies, man.
 
2012-07-09 09:34:06 AM  

TheotherMIguy: What I find fascinating, from a historical perspective, is that Pakistan (and by association, Bangladesh - formerly East Pakistan) have only been around for 65 years. The entire formation of those two nations was due to the frustration felt by the rest of the newly formed Indian government. Jinnah, from what I remember of my Prof's teachings, didn't actually WANT the two-state solution, he just suggested it as the far point in a barter for political gain and Muslim rights within India (the dude had a brand new house in New Delhi and was in poor health, not exactly the kind of situation you make for yourself if you really want to move to the western edge of the sub-continent). But the Indian government was so fed up by that point they said 'OK!' and farked us over today.

I still blame the British though. Without them, the sub-continent would be a vastly different place right now: Richer, probably more religiously tolerant, and less nuke happy.


While colonial Brits certainly screwed things up, it wasn't 100% black and white...they DID bring things like railroads to India. If the subcontinent had been in the pre-colonial feudal mode in and after the 20s, it might well have gone full-bore communist the way China did...which certainly wouldn't have made most people richer or more tolerant.
 
2012-07-09 09:35:42 AM  

Joe Blowme: HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.

Ahh, the ole justifying present day retardation by pointing to centuries old retardation.
The classic " but mommy, Billy did it too!!!!"


I don't think you understand the word "justify."
 
2012-07-09 09:37:58 AM  

doglover: Your rational thinking probably isn't as rational or well thought out as you think it is.


I never said it was. The difference is that I KNOW when I'm being irrational and can tailor my behavior because of that. I also figure irrational thought is so commonplace that it is an integral part of the human experience.

A rabbi would eat you up and spit you out in a debate.

And that would prove what, exactly? I mean besides the fact that a person well-versed in his own mythology knows more than me and might have better debate skills?

The point is religion isn't the groundless belief in the irrational that you seem to think it is through and through. What it actually is a blend of various activities that can sharpen the mental and physical faculties to a razor's edge when practiced, if I may make a pun, religiously.

You're talking ritual, which is different than religious belief.

Actually, I get the point you're trying to make there. I just think you're making it in a very ham-fisted way. You're saying that because religion exists (and about 95% of people around the world practice some variation of it) that it is pretty reasonable to assume there is something inherently human about holding such a belief.

I agree with that idea, to be honest. I consider myself an Atheist/humanist, and as such I can see what you're saying. However, where I think I stand separate from most other people is that, like I stated above, I KNOW when I'm being irrational about something. I submit that the monk that immolates himself might not be sharing this awareness of his own irrationality at the time that he does that.
 
2012-07-09 09:38:05 AM  

stonicus: So, to tout the praises of religion, you cite how easy it let's you set people on fire. Brilliant.


And it's an example of "the power of religion" as opposed to "suicidal insanity."
 
2012-07-09 09:43:34 AM  

steamingpile: RassilonsExWife: You're looking at your future, America, unless you give the theocrats the beatdown they deserve.

Mindless bullshiat from people who are scared of people that have faith


You're damn right we're scared of people that have faith. Scared of the shiat they're going to pull that impacts the lives of the rest of us.

It is not faith itself that we object to, but rather blind faith, and faith that is contrary to verifyable evidence. That kind of faith causes people to reject learning new things. Why should Muslims care that this guy furthered our understanding of how the universe functions, and how it formed? God made the world!

It's also exclusivist faith that we object to. The "You don't believe what I believe so you don't count as a real person" mindset. That's the kind of mindset that allows people to rationalize horrific actions perpetrated against their fellow man.

And while you say "The Inquisition, the Crusades, those were Centuries ago, it's not like that anymore!" but the God modern Christians pray to is the same one in whose name those horrific acts were performed.
 
Displayed 50 of 192 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report