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(Yahoo)   Pakistan's late Nobel-winning physicist who predicted the Higgs particle is a national hero. Just kidding; he's been erased from their textbooks for not being Islamic enough   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 192
    More: Asinine, atoms, higgs particles, Nobel, Pakistan, Islamic, Standard Model, god, other nations  
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8553 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2012 at 6:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-09 01:26:24 AM  
You can't recognize scientific genius because you're pants-on-head-retarded? That makes me very sad. What hope do we have to even think of world peace when people can't even acknowledge the brilliance of a man because of a sect of religion he belonged to?

Just nuke us from orbit.
 
2012-07-09 02:04:40 AM  
India moves forward. Pakistan backwards. Pakistan is moving to resolve the India-Pakistan competition/conflict, and not in the way that favors Pakistan at all. India is moving to be a 21st Century power while Pakistan is moving toward being a Stone Age mess.
 
2012-07-09 02:46:55 AM  
This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia
 
2012-07-09 03:18:42 AM  

SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia



Yes, blame all religions. Giovanni Caselli, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday, and Issac Newton were all worthless and contributed nothing to the world because of their religious practices. Oh wait, the opposite of that.

Religion is like a sport for your mind. A Buddhist monk can focus on one thing so powerfully he doesn't even make a peep if you light him on fire with gasoline. I doubt most people could give themselves a blister on the stove while meditating without crying out in pain. Other religions have their merit, as well.

The problem isn't religion as a whole, but rather the people who take it too seriously. Just like everything else, moderation is the key. The Muslims in America are the guys who show up in the jerseys and root for the home team. The Muslims in Pakistan are the guys who start the football riots where people die. They need a serious dose of lighten the fark up in their lives.
 
2012-07-09 04:34:13 AM  

SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia


Darwin could be added to that list.
 
2012-07-09 05:08:28 AM  
Enjoy your scientific, intellectual and technological dark age, you fundamentalist wingnuts.
 
2012-07-09 06:24:38 AM  
the story of the headpiece at his grave is also pretty amusing. it originally read "first muslim nobel prize winner", but since he was mahdi and this is apparently heretical according to the majority in pakistan (as well as in most of the muslim world... i suppose kind of the way that mormons are not really considered christian by many other christians), they removed the "muslim" from the stone so that it now just nonsensically reads "first nobel prize winner"...
 
2012-07-09 06:25:56 AM  
How many American Nobel laureates are named in modern American textbooks?
 
2012-07-09 06:28:29 AM  

miss diminutive: Enjoy your scientific, intellectual and technological dark age, you fundamentalist wingnuts.


Don't get too proud there.

The LHC has allowed mankind to expand its knowledge of the universe while here in the US we're still debating evolution in science curricula.

How can we expect progress in this country when political forces are actively destabilizing education so that the sheep keep them in power to protect them from "intellectual elitists"?
 
2012-07-09 06:31:04 AM  

NewportBarGuy: You can't recognize scientific genius because you're pants-on-head-retarded from a miserable, ignorant part of the planet that hasn't progressed a single day in the past 2,500 years? That makes me very sad.


FTFY.
 
2012-07-09 06:31:57 AM  

lohphat: miss diminutive: Enjoy your scientific, intellectual and technological dark age, you fundamentalist wingnuts.

Don't get too proud there.

The LHC has allowed mankind to expand its knowledge of the universe while here in the US we're still debating evolution in science curricula.

How can we expect progress in this country when political forces are actively destabilizing education so that the sheep keep them in power to protect them from "intellectual elitists"?


Valid point, but I'm not American. Besides, this type of anti-science/anti-intellectualism certainly isn't restricted to muslim fundamentalists.
 
2012-07-09 06:37:18 AM  
Who was the dimwit who first said "god particle"? They need a good shin kicking.
 
2012-07-09 06:42:02 AM  

doglover: Yes, blame all religions. Giovanni Caselli, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday, and Issac Newton were all worthless and contributed nothing to the world because of their religious practices. Oh wait, the opposite of that.


You not think good. He not say that. He say religion persecute some people, not religious people contribute nothing.
Think better next time.
 
2012-07-09 06:44:34 AM  

lohphat: How can we expect progress in this country when political forces are actively destabilizing education so that the sheep keep them in power to protect them from "intellectual elitists"?


You are giving them too much credit. It's not so much a cunning plan as it is that they are just farking idiots and are themselves afraid of knowledge.
 
2012-07-09 06:47:10 AM  
It's his own fault. If he had used his scientific knowledge to contribute to the Pakistani nuclear weapons program, like all the other good scientists, he would have been a hero too.
 
2012-07-09 06:47:19 AM  

miss diminutive: lohphat: miss diminutive: Enjoy your scientific, intellectual and technological dark age, you fundamentalist wingnuts.

Don't get too proud there.

The LHC has allowed mankind to expand its knowledge of the universe while here in the US we're still debating evolution in science curricula.

How can we expect progress in this country when political forces are actively destabilizing education so that the sheep keep them in power to protect them from "intellectual elitists"?

Valid point, but I'm not American. Besides, this type of anti-science/anti-intellectualism certainly isn't restricted to muslim fundamentalists.


A good point.
I'm tired of ALL the fundies ruining it for the rest of us. We don't want any part of your raging hatred for 'others'.
 
2012-07-09 06:49:45 AM  
Control the science: loser.

Control the press: winnar!
 
2012-07-09 06:49:48 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: How many American Nobel laureates are named in modern American textbooks?


Well, if you stick with prize winners born in the US, then all of the literature winners are at least mentioned if not read in high school, most of the peace prize winners are standard parts of US history texts because of either what got them the Peace Prize or because they were big deals otherwise. A few might only show up in side bars in certain texts on account of winning the prize so there's that. As for all the other subjects, well economics texts mention a lot of the winners in part because at least for the first couple decades the prize was offered, they were big deals in the field. A few also show up in non-econ texts. As for the other fields, the winners of the physics prize are pretty darn well represented in various texts. Which leaves chemistry and medicine/physiology, where it's a bit dicey.
 
2012-07-09 06:51:14 AM  
The next time you see some Islamist jackwad bragging "Islam has done great things in science while you Westerners were still living in huts!", remind them of Abdus Salam.

When they say "Who?", you then say "See what I mean?".
 
2012-07-09 06:51:43 AM  

RatOmeter: Who was the dimwit who first said "god particle"? They need a good shin kicking.


Nobel Prize winner Leon Lederman, after his publisher wouldn't let him call it the goddamn particle. Was the title of his book, The God Particle: If the Universe is the Answer, What is the Question?
 
2012-07-09 06:53:05 AM  

doglover: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia


Yes, blame all religions. Giovanni Caselli, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday, and Issac Newton were all worthless and contributed nothing to the world because of their religious practices. Oh wait, the opposite of that.

Religion is like a sport for your mind. A Buddhist monk can focus on one thing so powerfully he doesn't even make a peep if you light him on fire with gasoline. I doubt most people could give themselves a blister on the stove while meditating without crying out in pain. Other religions have their merit, as well.

The problem isn't religion as a whole, but rather the people who take it too seriously. Just like everything else, moderation is the key. The Muslims in America are the guys who show up in the jerseys and root for the home team. The Muslims in Pakistan are the guys who start the football riots where people die. They need a serious dose of lighten the fark up in their lives.


I am pretty sure that monk woudl fall intot he "take it too seriously" category.
 
2012-07-09 06:54:25 AM  
Well fundamentalists can be accused of rigid thinking, rash generalizations, and extreme statements. Things you never see in Fark threads because Farkers are superiorer to those folks.
 
2012-07-09 06:54:37 AM  
memearchive.net
 
2012-07-09 07:03:46 AM  
Who cares about their history books? They're probably packed full of religiously slanted inaccuracies. Someday their entire culture will be a footnote in our own history books:

Pakistan: Drove themselves into the ground with religion.
 
2012-07-09 07:05:42 AM  

Honest Bender: Who cares about their history books? They're probably packed full of religiously slanted inaccuracies. Someday their entire culture will be a footnote in our own history books:

Pakistan: Drove themselves into the ground with religion.


Have you ever been to Alabama or Mississippi?
 
2012-07-09 07:07:23 AM  
As in every facet of human existence, asshats are the problem. Unfortunately, Pakistan seems to be about 90% asshat.
 
2012-07-09 07:09:50 AM  

lohphat: Have you ever been to Alabama or Mississippi?


Don't even have to go that far.

You can just go to PA

/all for secession
//New England and NY are going to break off and join the Maritimes
///You know it's true.
 
2012-07-09 07:10:35 AM  

Honest Bender: Who cares about their history books? They're probably packed full of religiously slanted inaccuracies. Someday their entire culture will be a footnote in our own history books:

Pakistan: Drove themselves into the ground with religion.


Thank god our textbooks aren't full of religiously slanted innaccuracies.
 
2012-07-09 07:12:44 AM  

RatOmeter: Who was the dimwit who first said "god particle"? They need a good shin kicking.


I'd imagine he did it for the trollolols... we can at least prove that the Higgs Boson exists to a five sigma certainty... I'd wager that we can't yet do the same for God.
 
2012-07-09 07:14:45 AM  

bulldg4life: Honest Bender: Who cares about their history books? They're probably packed full of religiously slanted inaccuracies. Someday their entire culture will be a footnote in our own history books:

Pakistan: Drove themselves into the ground with religion.

Thank god our textbooks aren't full of religiously slanted innaccuracies.


Yes, but we complain about them. Come to think of it, were allowed to complain about them. Contrast this with Pakistan.
 
2012-07-09 07:16:03 AM  

liam76: I am pretty sure that monk woudl fall intot he "take it too seriously" category.


Ah, but monks can and do leave the monastery. It was a mantle many picked up to escape the mundane world for awhile. While you're a monk, they make you practice, and you get good at things like meditation. But you can step down as well.

Just like a professional sports team, really. Only instead of scouts, they just accept low level candidates who display serious interest and train them up.
 
2012-07-09 07:16:38 AM  

doglover: Issac Newton


was kind of batshiat crazy.
 
2012-07-09 07:19:56 AM  

ChubbyTiger: As in every facet of human existence, asshats are the problem. Unfortunately, Pakistan seems to be about 90% asshat.


Oh, come now, it can't be that bad. 60-65% tops. All it takes is 51% asshat to really mess up your day/decade.
 
2012-07-09 07:20:56 AM  

WhyteRaven74: AverageAmericanGuy: How many American Nobel laureates are named in modern American textbooks?

Well, if you stick with prize winners born in the US, then all of the literature winners are at least mentioned if not read in high school, most of the peace prize winners are standard parts of US history texts because of either what got them the Peace Prize or because they were big deals otherwise. A few might only show up in side bars in certain texts on account of winning the prize so there's that. As for all the other subjects, well economics texts mention a lot of the winners in part because at least for the first couple decades the prize was offered, they were big deals in the field. A few also show up in non-econ texts. As for the other fields, the winners of the physics prize are pretty darn well represented in various texts. Which leaves chemistry and medicine/physiology, where it's a bit dicey.


Maybe if you went to Exeter.

For the most part, the vast majority of American Nobel Prize winners are left out of text books, if for no other reason than lack of space. Which is not to say that they are being left out for religious purposes, which seems to be the case here in Pakistan (who knows? maybe it's just a minor textbook company for religious schools).

teh list

If it's not clear, I'm referring to high school text books, and I believe you are as well.
 
2012-07-09 07:22:33 AM  

Tman144: ChubbyTiger: As in every facet of human existence, asshats are the problem. Unfortunately, Pakistan seems to be about 90% asshat.

Oh, come now, it can't be that bad. 60-65% tops. All it takes is 51% asshat to really mess up your day/decade.


You're probably right. I need to reread that linguistic deflation thread.

/literally 102% of them
 
2012-07-09 07:25:00 AM  
Ever notice that countries that are "hell holes" are so due to conservative ideology, while more liberal and tolerant countries seem to be more advanced?
 
2012-07-09 07:25:01 AM  
Ahh Islam, the religion of enlightened peace.
 
2012-07-09 07:30:36 AM  

James F. Campbell: doglover: Issac Newton

was kind of batshiat crazy.


All the best people are. Do you know what they're doing at CERN? Nothing any sane person would care about. Smashing ions together at 99.9 c to create insane matter states is ludicrous! And we found the YO MOMMA particle, too. THROW THE SWITCH IGOR! MWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Genius is crazy.
 
2012-07-09 07:30:53 AM  

lohphat: Ever notice that countries that are "hell holes" are so due to conservative ideology, while more liberal and tolerant countries seem to be more advanced?


You mean like Sweden?
 
2012-07-09 07:33:01 AM  

ChubbyTiger: lohphat: Ever notice that countries that are "hell holes" are so due to conservative ideology, while more liberal and tolerant countries seem to be more advanced?

You mean like Sweden?


Does The Congo or Pakistan hae a women's bikini volleyball team?
 
2012-07-09 07:34:23 AM  

Malik Sardonis: It's his own fault. If he had used his scientific knowledge to contribute to the Pakistani nuclear weapons program, like all the other good scientists, he would have been a hero too.


Actually, he did.
 
2012-07-09 07:37:41 AM  
FTFA: Ahmadis believe their spiritual leader, Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who died in 1908, was a prophet of God - a position rejected by the government in response to a mass movement led by Pakistan's major Islamic parties. Islam considers Muhammad the last prophet and those who subsequently declared themselves prophets as heretics.

So....they're the Islamic equivalent of Mormons?
 
2012-07-09 07:42:53 AM  

doglover: Religion is like a sport for your mind.


Lots of brain damage from repeated collisions?
 
2012-07-09 07:51:02 AM  
sithon:
SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

Darwin could be added to that list.


To be fair, he became a non-theist over the course of his lifetime, well before the end of his scientific career (not that he ever really retired).

firefly212:
I'd imagine he did it for the trollolols... we can at least prove that the Higgs Boson exists to a five sigma certainty... I'd wager that we can't yet do the same for God.

Typically, religion's "five-sigma" goal has been to coerce 99.99% of the population into believing god exists, then marginalize or murder the remainder.
 
2012-07-09 07:53:37 AM  

Honest Bender: Pakistan: Drove themselves into the ground with religion.


And funnily enough, their founding father Muhammad Ali Jinnah, was a staunch atheist.

It's like rain on your wedding day.
 
2012-07-09 07:54:52 AM  

sithon: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

Darwin could be added to that list.


Darwin wasn't persecuted. The Church of England certainly wasn't opposed to it - after all, he's one of only 6 non-royal people buried in Westminster Abbey. Obviously there were critics and debate which, while spirited, in the UK at least it did not descend to the kind of opposition we see in evangelicals today.
 
2012-07-09 07:55:02 AM  

doglover: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia


Yes, blame all religions. Giovanni Caselli, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday, and Issac Newton were all worthless and contributed nothing to the world because of their religious practices. Oh wait, the opposite of that.

Religion is like a sport for your mind. A Buddhist monk can focus on one thing so powerfully he doesn't even make a peep if you light him on fire with gasoline. I doubt most people could give themselves a blister on the stove while meditating without crying out in pain. Other religions have their merit, as well.

The problem isn't religion as a whole, but rather the people who take it too seriously. Just like everything else, moderation is the key. The Muslims in America are the guys who show up in the jerseys and root for the home team. The Muslims in Pakistan are the guys who start the football riots where people die. They need a serious dose of lighten the fark up in their lives.


If the buddist monk did not take his religion seriously, and only in moderation as you suggest, there is no way he would be able to take the pain of being lit on fire in your example.

The problem isn't whether or not you take religion in moderation, or if you are a die hard religious nut. The problem with our planet is how we treat each other. That's it. If we can learn to respect others, no matter what they believe, no matter where they come from, who they date etc, we will become better people. Until then, we're doomed to the cycle of fighting over bullshiat things.

/Respect is often talked about, and demanded, but rarely shown
 
2012-07-09 08:00:08 AM  
What I find fascinating, from a historical perspective, is that Pakistan (and by association, Bangladesh - formerly East Pakistan) have only been around for 65 years. The entire formation of those two nations was due to the frustration felt by the rest of the newly formed Indian government. Jinnah, from what I remember of my Prof's teachings, didn't actually WANT the two-state solution, he just suggested it as the far point in a barter for political gain and Muslim rights within India (the dude had a brand new house in New Delhi and was in poor health, not exactly the kind of situation you make for yourself if you really want to move to the western edge of the sub-continent). But the Indian government was so fed up by that point they said 'OK!' and farked us over today.

I still blame the British though. Without them, the sub-continent would be a vastly different place right now: Richer, probably more religiously tolerant, and less nuke happy.

/History FTW.
 
2012-07-09 08:04:05 AM  

doglover: The problem isn't religion as a whole, but rather the people who take it too seriously. Just like everything else, moderation is the key. The Muslims in America are the guys who show up in the jerseys and root for the home team. The Muslims in Pakistan are the guys who start the football riots where people die. They need a serious dose of lighten the fark up in their lives.


The problem IS religion as a whole, and here is why: the very existence of religious belief encourages an invalid, irrational way of thinking. That is, it encourages a belief in, and expects action upon things that have no basis in reality. And when you do that, anything is possible "in the name of religion."

Now, I grant that many of the actions taken in the name of religion are relatively harmless, but you and I both can probably name 20 actions off the top of our heads that people have taken that ARE harmful or deadly to one person or a group. The only way to stop this from happening is encouraging rational thinking. But as I pointed out above, religion expects irrational thinking, so it is incompatible with rational thinking.

/garbled stream of consciousness
 
2012-07-09 08:05:40 AM  
Also, Texas and Kansas.
 
2012-07-09 08:08:45 AM  

lohphat: miss diminutive: Enjoy your scientific, intellectual and technological dark age, you fundamentalist wingnuts.

Don't get too proud there.

The LHC has allowed mankind to expand its knowledge of the universe while here in the US we're still debating evolution in science curricula.

How can we expect progress in this country when political forces are actively destabilizing education so that the sheep keep them in power to protect them from "intellectual elitists"?


Add in that the facility that was intended to be what the LHC later was was originally intended for Texas, but the US government pulled some bullshiat with the funding and that's why it's in Europe now instead. The US isn't going to get any of the big multinational projects for another half century because of that shiat, honestly.

//Actually doesn't have all that much to do with primary school curricula, primary schooling is a clusterfark everywhere in the first world due to universal education, it's only in post-secondary where literally the entire population isn't shoved through the system that's really meaningful-- and it's more or less a multinational endeavour at the level where any research is being done regardless what country you're in.
 
2012-07-09 08:10:54 AM  

Unoriginal_Username: That's it. If we can learn to respect others, no matter what they believe, no matter where they come from, who they date etc, we will become better people. Until then, we're doomed to the cycle of fighting over bullshiat things.


Unless we have a common ground for what repsecting other means this won't work.
 
2012-07-09 08:11:10 AM  

TheotherMIguy: What I find fascinating, from a historical perspective, is that Pakistan (and by association, Bangladesh - formerly East Pakistan) have only been around for 65 years. The entire formation of those two nations was due to the frustration felt by the rest of the newly formed Indian government. Jinnah, from what I remember of my Prof's teachings, didn't actually WANT the two-state solution, he just suggested it as the far point in a barter for political gain and Muslim rights within India (the dude had a brand new house in New Delhi and was in poor health, not exactly the kind of situation you make for yourself if you really want to move to the western edge of the sub-continent). But the Indian government was so fed up by that point they said 'OK!' and farked us over today.

I still blame the British though. Without them, the sub-continent would be a vastly different place right now: Richer, probably more religiously tolerant, and less nuke happy.

/History FTW.


I remember writing an essay on Jinnah, the Muslim League and Partition for a 300-level paper on Indian history. By the end of WW2 the British were quite eager to decolonise. India was no longer making them any money - in fact it was a drain on the finances - and the British had to concentrate on rebuilding and repaying wartime debt. Anyway, they wanted out fairly quickly and the negotiations between Congress and the Muslim League weren't bearing any fruit. The British proposed to balkanise the sub-continent and turn every princely state into individual nation states. That spurred Congress and the Muslim League to agree on partition, which resulted in communal violence killing hundreds of thousands of people.
 
2012-07-09 08:12:45 AM  
doglover:

Religion is like a sport for your mind..


So religion, like sport, is a triviality? I hunk I can get behind that. Also, we can liken the Christians in this country to asshole Yankee fans who think the umps always call against them!
 
2012-07-09 08:14:07 AM  

Wolfmanjames: Malik Sardonis: It's his own fault. If he had used his scientific knowledge to contribute to the Pakistani nuclear weapons program, like all the other good scientists, he would have been a hero too.

Actually, he did.


Yep, FTFA:

"...Salam, who also guided the early stages of the country's nuclear program"
 
2012-07-09 08:14:38 AM  

Unoriginal_Username: The problem isn't whether or not you take religion in moderation, or if you are a die hard religious nut. The problem with our planet is how we treat each other. That's it. If we can learn to respect others, no matter what they believe, no matter where they come from, who they date etc, we will become better people. Until then, we're doomed to the cycle of fighting over bullshiat things.


All of the customs and qualitatives I bolded are cultural norms, meaning that for most of the world they're defined by religion and for the rest of us they're not particularly consistent even from city to city. And this is without being pedantic, if I wanted to nitpick I could point out that what a "date" is is also a cultural norm and not an absolute thing, etc.
 
2012-07-09 08:14:56 AM  
can somebody explain to me when we use the term "muslim" and when we use the term "islam" or "islamic"? Does islam/ic refer to things and ideas, but muslim refers to people?
 
2012-07-09 08:14:57 AM  

thisispete: TheotherMIguy: What I find fascinating, from a historical perspective, is that Pakistan (and by association, Bangladesh - formerly East Pakistan) have only been around for 65 years. The entire formation of those two nations was due to the frustration felt by the rest of the newly formed Indian government. Jinnah, from what I remember of my Prof's teachings, didn't actually WANT the two-state solution, he just suggested it as the far point in a barter for political gain and Muslim rights within India (the dude had a brand new house in New Delhi and was in poor health, not exactly the kind of situation you make for yourself if you really want to move to the western edge of the sub-continent). But the Indian government was so fed up by that point they said 'OK!' and farked us over today.

I still blame the British though. Without them, the sub-continent would be a vastly different place right now: Richer, probably more religiously tolerant, and less nuke happy.

/History FTW.

I remember writing an essay on Jinnah, the Muslim League and Partition for a 300-level paper on Indian history. By the end of WW2 the British were quite eager to decolonise. India was no longer making them any money - in fact it was a drain on the finances - and the British had to concentrate on rebuilding and repaying wartime debt. Anyway, they wanted out fairly quickly and the negotiations between Congress and the Muslim League weren't bearing any fruit. The British proposed to balkanise the sub-continent and turn every princely state into individual nation states. That spurred Congress and the Muslim League to agree on partition, which resulted in communal violence killing hundreds of thousands of people.


Yeah, it's been a bit since my 300 and 400 level History courses. A lot of time away from academia too. But it still boils down to what I've always said about the sub-continent. The British are at fault. Fark them for looting Bangladesh (The nation-state that existed before their incursion, not the one that exists today), fark them for turning the various faiths into 'Hinduism', fark them for pushing for Muslin-Hindi violence, fark them, fark them, fark them.

/Ok, I'm better now.
 
2012-07-09 08:15:55 AM  

SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia


I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.
 
2012-07-09 08:16:29 AM  
Stone Age dogma which seeks to prevent humanity from outgrowing it's ignorance? Color me surprised.
 
2012-07-09 08:19:15 AM  

steamingpile: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.


If churches thought they could get away with it again in the US they would. Instead they have to be content in inciting people to act for them indirectly. Ask an OBGYN in The South if they feel safe performing abortions.
 
2012-07-09 08:24:41 AM  

steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.


The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.
 
2012-07-09 08:25:36 AM  

NewportBarGuy: You can't recognize scientific genius because you're pants-on-head-retarded? That makes me very sad. What hope do we have to even think of world peace when people can't even acknowledge the brilliance of a man because of a sect of religion he belonged to?

Just nuke us from orbit.


I agree. Just...wait a tic while I get the mothership to beam me back up.
 
2012-07-09 08:25:57 AM  
Hey India, could you please just steamroll over Pakistan already? You know you want to, and besides, no one likes those duplicitous Pakis anymore.
 
2012-07-09 08:31:26 AM  

lohphat: miss diminutive: Enjoy your scientific, intellectual and technological dark age, you fundamentalist wingnuts.

Don't get too proud there.

The LHC has allowed mankind to expand its knowledge of the universe while here in the US we're still debating evolution in science curricula.

How can we expect progress in this country when political forces are actively destabilizing education so that the sheep keep them in power to protect them from "intellectual elitists"?


Hmm, how about: there is a difference in the level of anti-intellectualism that even your cultural-relativist ass shouldn't be able to overlook.
 
2012-07-09 08:35:24 AM  

liam76: doglover: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia


Yes, blame all religions. Giovanni Caselli, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday, and Issac Newton were all worthless and contributed nothing to the world because of their religious practices. Oh wait, the opposite of that.

Religion is like a sport for your mind. A Buddhist monk can focus on one thing so powerfully he doesn't even make a peep if you light him on fire with gasoline. I doubt most people could give themselves a blister on the stove while meditating without crying out in pain. Other religions have their merit, as well.

The problem isn't religion as a whole, but rather the people who take it too seriously. Just like everything else, moderation is the key. The Muslims in America are the guys who show up in the jerseys and root for the home team. The Muslims in Pakistan are the guys who start the football riots where people die. They need a serious dose of lighten the fark up in their lives.

I am pretty sure that monk woudl fall intot he "take it too seriously" category.


I disagree, on my dad's side they are irish catholic. My Great Aunt is a Nun and she works with prositutes in San Franscisco still when she is in her mid to late 90's and although is unquestionably devout she also doesnt judge and feels that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and will help anyone in need. Where at my grandmother will outright tell people that they will be going to hell and shun them.
 
2012-07-09 08:37:10 AM  

steamingpile: I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough.


Although I can't prove it, I do suspect that if American fundamentalist Christians were left to do as they wanted, without Constitutional protections for minority beliefs, you would see a whole lot of pain being rained down on the heads of those who don't believe as they do.
They are nicer than the crazies in other countries because they are compelled to be so. Not because of their better natures.
 
2012-07-09 08:40:04 AM  
Speaking of which, I'd like to thank all the climate change deniers who prayed to make yesterday's rain possible.
 
2012-07-09 08:41:20 AM  

lohphat: steamingpile: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

If churches thought they could get away with it again in the US they would. Instead they have to be content in inciting people to act for them indirectly. Ask an OBGYN in The South if they feel safe performing abortions.


Protests are not even the farking same as a violent mob coming in and hacking all the workers up then the government not arresting them for a crime but yeah its exactly the same.

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.


This is all people bring up, stuff from centuries ago people progress and realize that line of thinking was insane, that would never happen now yet the Muslims do it and most of fark's instinct is to attack ALL religions as being violent.
 
2012-07-09 08:45:12 AM  
Just tell the morons that you're working to discover "God's laws," rather than nature's laws. Problem solved and research fully funded.
 
2012-07-09 08:47:09 AM  

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.


Ahh, the ole justifying present day retardation by pointing to centuries old retardation.
The classic " but mommy, Billy did it too!!!!"
 
2012-07-09 08:48:00 AM  
It's sad, really. The ONE thing that made the U.S. special was the foresight of its Founding Fathers. They realized that, for a country to be truly great, neither Religion nor Government must hold too much power, and wrote language into the Constitution to prevent either force from becoming too large. Unfortunately, the Constitution began to be assailed by forces worshiping both sides almost immediately.
 
2012-07-09 08:49:06 AM  
Replace Islamic with Christian, and it sounds like the South.
 
2012-07-09 08:50:32 AM  

steamingpile: This is all people bring up, stuff from centuries ago people progress and realize that line of thinking was insane, that would never happen now yet the Muslims do it and most of fark's instinct is to attack ALL religions as being violent.


But, isn't ALL religion from "centuries ago"? Hell, "millennia ago" for that matter.
 
2012-07-09 08:52:55 AM  
And, I can think of more recent persecutions that christianity is responsible for.
 
2012-07-09 08:55:56 AM  

steamingpile: lohphat: steamingpile: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

If churches thought they could get away with it again in the US they would. Instead they have to be content in inciting people to act for them indirectly. Ask an OBGYN in The South if they feel safe performing abortions.

Protests are not even the farking same as a violent mob coming in and hacking all the workers up then the government not arresting them for a crime but yeah its exactly the same.

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.


This is all people bring up, stuff from centuries ago people progress and realize that line of thinking was insane, that would never happen now yet the Muslims do it and most of fark's instinct is to attack ALL religions as being violent.


If memory serves, only Buddhism has not been spread by aggression.

In other news - even Mali is experiencing "NOT MUSLIM ENOUGH" and "MAKE ME A SAMMICH" issues. Why buy her a watch? There's a clock on the fire pit. Link
 
2012-07-09 08:56:43 AM  

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.


You're aware that those events occurred several hundred years ago, right? And that what's happening in Pakistan is happening today?

Also, for the people in the thread saying "see, this is what Christians want for America!", first off good job on the broad discrimination. And secondly, yes some of them probably do.
But in a democracy people have to fight to get their point of view to the foreground. And if religious nuts are causing your country to spiral the drain, then that is a failure of all rational people, moderate religious people, atheists and agnostics (i.e. YOU!) that sat back and let it happen.

/Other than anonymously biatching about it on an internet forum, obviously.
//Best of luck with the whole political-and-intellectual-collapse-of-your-nation thing, Pakistan!
 
2012-07-09 08:57:10 AM  

HAMMERTOE: But, isn't ALL religion from "centuries ago"? Hell, "millennia ago" for that matter.


LDS & Scientology
 
2012-07-09 08:58:09 AM  
You're looking at your future, America, unless you give the theocrats the beatdown they deserve.
 
2012-07-09 08:58:23 AM  

0Icky0: steamingpile: I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough.

Although I can't prove it, I do suspect that if American fundamentalist Christians were left to do as they wanted, without Constitutional protections for minority beliefs, you would see a whole lot of pain being rained down on the heads of those who don't believe as they do.
They are nicer than the crazies in other countries because they are compelled to be so. Not because of their better natures.


No they wouldn't, you don't see Muslims going to be a volunteer in another nation to better poorer areas, most of those in this country are not even close to the nutty Muslims are.
 
2012-07-09 08:59:24 AM  

SurfaceTension: /garbled stream of consciousness


You can say that again.

You mistake the practice of a religion with the blind following of certain clergy members. That's very different.

Your rational thinking probably isn't as rational or well thought out as you think it is. A rabbi would eat you up and spit you out in a debate. Ever wonder why so many jews seem to be lawyers? Seems like half their religion is learning god's law by heart and the other half is finding way around it.

Then of course we have the horses in Voodoo, the running monks of Mt Hiei, the "whirling dervishes" of.... was it Islam? I've forgotten. The point is religion isn't the groundless belief in the irrational that you seem to think it is through and through. What it actually is a blend of various activities that can sharpen the mental and physical faculties to a razor's edge when practiced, if I may make a pun, religiously.

The atheists who say "There's no scientific proof of god." are correct. The same cannot be said of religion. It's real. It exists. It's testable. Instead of discarding it outright, you might try looking into this thing that's been around for millennia and see if maybe there's a reason it's still around. Find the regieme that gives people the mental and physical fortitude to go for 9 days (216 hours) without food, water, or rest of any kind in the middle of years of running more than a marathon daily. Link
 
2012-07-09 09:00:50 AM  

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: This is all people bring up, stuff from centuries ago people progress and realize that line of thinking was insane, that would never happen now yet the Muslims do it and most of fark's instinct is to attack ALL religions as being violent.

But, isn't ALL religion from "centuries ago"? Hell, "millennia ago" for that matter.


I was referring to acts of aggression in the name of religion, Muslims haven't let it go so to compare the two is moronic.
 
2012-07-09 09:01:11 AM  
Such a shocking move from a country that actually banned weather forecasts in newspapers for a year or 2.
 
2012-07-09 09:03:11 AM  

doglover: Yes, blame all religions. Giovanni Caselli, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday, and Issac Newton were all worthless and contributed nothing to the world because of their religious practices. Oh wait, the opposite of that.


Just imagine what Newton could have accomplished without the distractions of numerology, astrology, and alchemy.
 
2012-07-09 09:06:47 AM  

doglover:
Religion is like a sport for your mind. A Buddhist monk can focus on one thing so powerfully he doesn't even make a peep if you light him on fire with gasoline. I doubt most people could give themselves a blister on the stove while meditating without crying out in pain. Other religions have their merit, as well.


So, to tout the praises of religion, you cite how easy it let's you set people on fire. Brilliant.
 
2012-07-09 09:06:49 AM  
Welcome to Mitt Romney's America.
 
2012-07-09 09:07:41 AM  

RassilonsExWife: You're looking at your future, America, unless you give the theocrats the beatdown they deserve.


Mindless bullshiat from people who are scared of people that have faith
 
2012-07-09 09:09:10 AM  

miss
diminutive
:
Enjoy your scientific, intellectual and technological dark age, you fundamentalist wingnuts.


tobescifitakeover.files.wordpress.com

Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
 
2012-07-09 09:13:33 AM  

steamingpile: I was referring to acts of aggression in the name of religion, Muslims haven't let it go so to compare the two is moronic.


Let's see...

Irish Protestant/ Catholic aggression.
Abortion clinic violence/ intimidation.
WBC
 
2012-07-09 09:13:45 AM  

steamingpile: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.


My chapter of the KKK never lynched or killed anyone. I don't know why they lump us in with the rest of the KKK.
 
2012-07-09 09:19:15 AM  
img59.imageshack.us
 
2012-07-09 09:19:16 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: WhyteRaven74: AverageAmericanGuy: How many American Nobel laureates are named in modern American textbooks?

Well, if you stick with prize winners born in the US, then all of the literature winners are at least mentioned if not read in high school, most of the peace prize winners are standard parts of US history texts because of either what got them the Peace Prize or because they were big deals otherwise. A few might only show up in side bars in certain texts on account of winning the prize so there's that. As for all the other subjects, well economics texts mention a lot of the winners in part because at least for the first couple decades the prize was offered, they were big deals in the field. A few also show up in non-econ texts. As for the other fields, the winners of the physics prize are pretty darn well represented in various texts. Which leaves chemistry and medicine/physiology, where it's a bit dicey.

Maybe if you went to Exeter.


Doug Exeter?

exclamationmark.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-07-09 09:28:46 AM  

Tman144: ChubbyTiger: As in every facet of human existence, asshats are the problem. Unfortunately, Pakistan seems to be about 90% asshat.

Oh, come now, it can't be that bad. 60-65% tops. All it takes is 51% asshat to really mess up your day/decade.


Actually, looking back at the 20th century rise of the communists and fascists, I'd say you really only need a committed 30 - 40% to REALLY screw up a nation.
 
2012-07-09 09:31:46 AM  

HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: I was referring to acts of aggression in the name of religion, Muslims haven't let it go so to compare the two is moronic.

Let's see...

Irish Protestant/ Catholic aggression.
Abortion clinic violence/ intimidation.
WBC


Superstition, or religion, is the cause of a lot of problems. Get Ric Romero on that.

Religion = Superstition + $$$$$
 
2012-07-09 09:31:46 AM  

pivazena: can somebody explain to me when we use the term "muslim" and when we use the term "islam" or "islamic"? Does islam/ic refer to things and ideas, but muslim refers to people?


Muslim literally means "one who submits", it technically refers only to the followers of the religion, not the religion itself.

Islam refers to the religion (noun) and "Islamic" to things owned by or pertaining to said religion, e.g. a mosque would be an Islamic building, not a 'muslim' building.

So, yeah, basically you've got it right. It's worth noting, though, that in English the distinction's been getting kind of blurred due to the parallel to Christianity (where the followers, the religion, and the adverb for religious artefacts all share a root) and the fact that we have some extra syntactic constructs that are technically correct but kind of confuse the issue ("the Muslim faith" is technically correct, as Islam is the faith of the muslim [noun], but that can also be parsed as Muslim being an adjective modifying 'faith' instead, a more common meaning for that sort of wording). Basically you're right but it's probably not really worth getting all that nitpicky over in English. Don't fark it up when writing in Arabic, though.

HailRobonia: Just imagine what Newton could have accomplished without the distractions of numerology, astrology, and alchemy.


To be fair to Newton on that one, Alchemy was in fact a valid branch of empiricism at the time he was publishing. In honesty, it was actually usually more rigorous than other branches of academic study, and even if you don't buy that none of the experiments that discredited many of the major alchemical theories would occur until the mid to late 1800s.

Even stuff you sort of take for granted as "oh, that's obviously unscientific" like theories about there being four/five basic elements, there being a basic component of chemical matter, etc, were not so much in the context of contemporary knowledge. The Rutherford experiment and the Brownian motion paper that sort of put Atoms into the "yup, definitely sure" category only barely predated the first World War (1911 and 1905 respectively), any time before that chemical theories espousing infinitely-divisible matter or... dramatically different elemental chemistry were logically viable alternatives.

Numerology has admittedly always been a bit silly, but even astrology wasn't fully discredited until the late 1700s, either (Newton being dead at that point).

One of the things I always try to drive into my students' heads is that our ancestors weren't stupid, and in science you need to keep an open mind about logically possible explanations until actual verification occurs. It's frequently kinda stupid to be dismissive of the beliefs of someone several hundred years back even if someone having the same belief today is unarguably a goddamned retard. And it's hard to avoid that impulse, because as children of the scientific age we always want to treat being factually wrong as somehow equivalent to being morally wrong-- a natural, but anti-empirical impulse.

//Short version: If Newton hadn't wasted his time grinding away at Alchemy, someone else of equal brain-power would have had to do the same to provide the body of literature and debate that eventually rendered it obsolete. Don't knock the guy's hobbies, man.
 
2012-07-09 09:34:06 AM  

TheotherMIguy: What I find fascinating, from a historical perspective, is that Pakistan (and by association, Bangladesh - formerly East Pakistan) have only been around for 65 years. The entire formation of those two nations was due to the frustration felt by the rest of the newly formed Indian government. Jinnah, from what I remember of my Prof's teachings, didn't actually WANT the two-state solution, he just suggested it as the far point in a barter for political gain and Muslim rights within India (the dude had a brand new house in New Delhi and was in poor health, not exactly the kind of situation you make for yourself if you really want to move to the western edge of the sub-continent). But the Indian government was so fed up by that point they said 'OK!' and farked us over today.

I still blame the British though. Without them, the sub-continent would be a vastly different place right now: Richer, probably more religiously tolerant, and less nuke happy.


While colonial Brits certainly screwed things up, it wasn't 100% black and white...they DID bring things like railroads to India. If the subcontinent had been in the pre-colonial feudal mode in and after the 20s, it might well have gone full-bore communist the way China did...which certainly wouldn't have made most people richer or more tolerant.
 
2012-07-09 09:35:42 AM  

Joe Blowme: HAMMERTOE: steamingpile: When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials were all about persecuting people for no being "Christian enough," whether you choose to deny it or not. So yes, your imaginary friend gets lumped in with all the rest.

Ahh, the ole justifying present day retardation by pointing to centuries old retardation.
The classic " but mommy, Billy did it too!!!!"


I don't think you understand the word "justify."
 
2012-07-09 09:37:58 AM  

doglover: Your rational thinking probably isn't as rational or well thought out as you think it is.


I never said it was. The difference is that I KNOW when I'm being irrational and can tailor my behavior because of that. I also figure irrational thought is so commonplace that it is an integral part of the human experience.

A rabbi would eat you up and spit you out in a debate.

And that would prove what, exactly? I mean besides the fact that a person well-versed in his own mythology knows more than me and might have better debate skills?

The point is religion isn't the groundless belief in the irrational that you seem to think it is through and through. What it actually is a blend of various activities that can sharpen the mental and physical faculties to a razor's edge when practiced, if I may make a pun, religiously.

You're talking ritual, which is different than religious belief.

Actually, I get the point you're trying to make there. I just think you're making it in a very ham-fisted way. You're saying that because religion exists (and about 95% of people around the world practice some variation of it) that it is pretty reasonable to assume there is something inherently human about holding such a belief.

I agree with that idea, to be honest. I consider myself an Atheist/humanist, and as such I can see what you're saying. However, where I think I stand separate from most other people is that, like I stated above, I KNOW when I'm being irrational about something. I submit that the monk that immolates himself might not be sharing this awareness of his own irrationality at the time that he does that.
 
2012-07-09 09:38:05 AM  

stonicus: So, to tout the praises of religion, you cite how easy it let's you set people on fire. Brilliant.


And it's an example of "the power of religion" as opposed to "suicidal insanity."
 
2012-07-09 09:43:34 AM  

steamingpile: RassilonsExWife: You're looking at your future, America, unless you give the theocrats the beatdown they deserve.

Mindless bullshiat from people who are scared of people that have faith


You're damn right we're scared of people that have faith. Scared of the shiat they're going to pull that impacts the lives of the rest of us.

It is not faith itself that we object to, but rather blind faith, and faith that is contrary to verifyable evidence. That kind of faith causes people to reject learning new things. Why should Muslims care that this guy furthered our understanding of how the universe functions, and how it formed? God made the world!

It's also exclusivist faith that we object to. The "You don't believe what I believe so you don't count as a real person" mindset. That's the kind of mindset that allows people to rationalize horrific actions perpetrated against their fellow man.

And while you say "The Inquisition, the Crusades, those were Centuries ago, it's not like that anymore!" but the God modern Christians pray to is the same one in whose name those horrific acts were performed.
 
2012-07-09 09:44:02 AM  

Joe Blowme: Ahh, the ole justifying present day retardation by pointing to centuries old retardation.
The classic " but mommy, Billy did it too!!!!"


"Justify"?

My friend, religion is in no way "justified." Neither by the facts, nor by the evidence, nor even by the bible. I can list no less than three ways in which the bible falls flat on its face.
 
2012-07-09 09:47:19 AM  

Malik Sardonis: It's his own fault. If he had used his scientific knowledge to contribute to the Pakistani nuclear weapons program, like all the other good scientists, he would have been a hero too.


you know how i know you didn't comprehend the article
 
2012-07-09 09:49:43 AM  
SteamingPile - When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.


Just like every denomination and every church is the same, right?

Your church may have been like that, but certainly not every congregation's pews and pulpits are filled with those who would pray "for" people.

Plenty are filled with those who would do things like forcibly banish homosexuals to some fenced in concentration camp and deprive them of food until they were all dead. Some would whip up a frenzy calling for the death of abortion providers and then run and hide when one of their followers actually starts killing doctors and nurses and plants booby traps in an effort to kill first responders. While other churches may be filled with those who still oppose a racially integrated society and engage in practices related to the KKK.

I'm sure the church you belong/belonged to wasn't filled with such people, but let's not bury our heads in the sand and act like such "Christian" based churches don't exist.
 
2012-07-09 09:50:59 AM  
Neil deGrasse Tyson made a chilling point about fundamentalism.

The Arabs' names for 2/3rds of the stars, not to mention algebra and many other innovations, are used to this day because Islam was the center for scientific and cultural enlightenment for 300 years. People came in from all over the world (read: immigration) and discovered shiat (science). Then an "Intelligent Design" nutbag took over and the region hasn't recovered in NINE HUNDRED YEARS.

Science: It works, biatches.
 
2012-07-09 09:53:51 AM  
doglover:
steamingpile:


www.prosebeforehos.com

If you follow the disjointed, contradictory "philosophy" of Bronze-Age goat herders, you might be mentally deficient, and that's not good for anyone.
 
2012-07-09 09:54:58 AM  

doglover: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia


Yes, blame all religions. Giovanni Caselli, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday, and Issac Newton were all worthless and contributed nothing to the world because of their religious practices. Oh wait, the opposite of that.

Religion is like a sport for your mind. A Buddhist monk can focus on one thing so powerfully he doesn't even make a peep if you light him on fire with gasoline. I doubt most people could give themselves a blister on the stove while meditating without crying out in pain. Other religions have their merit, as well.

The problem isn't religion as a whole, but rather the people who take it too seriously. Just like everything else, moderation is the key. The Muslims in America are the guys who show up in the jerseys and root for the home team. The Muslims in Pakistan are the guys who start the football riots where people die. They need a serious dose of lighten the fark up in their lives.


Religion has contributed nothing. Except misery. What does being able to set yourself on fire accomplish?

Some people who were/are religious have done worthwhile things, but not because of god(s) or religion.

Religion has caused a lot of misery and conflicts, tho.
 
2012-07-09 09:55:16 AM  

HAMMERTOE: Joe Blowme: Ahh, the ole justifying present day retardation by pointing to centuries old retardation.
The classic " but mommy, Billy did it too!!!!"

"Justify"?

My friend, religion is in no way "justified." Neither by the facts, nor by the evidence, nor even by the bible. I can list no less than three ways in which the bible falls flat on its face.


I really dont care about the bible, im not religious but to say "but but but christains killed people too!!!" when confronted with the fact that islam remains an extreme and violent death cult today as it was centuries ago is IMHO, is dumb. Maybe you are not justifying it or defending it but it sure sounds like it. My aplogies if i have misinterpreted your point.
 
2012-07-09 09:58:05 AM  

doglover: Your rational thinking probably isn't as rational or well thought out as you think it is. A rabbi would eat you up and spit you out in a debate. Ever wonder why so many jews seem to be lawyers? Seems like half their religion is learning god's law by heart and the other half is finding way around it.


If a rabbi pwns you in a debate, you should have prepared better. Rabbis aren't special, they're just well-versed in Judaism (and hopefully a little psychology and family studies as well). They shouldn't be able to convince you of anything, or convert you from a belief - that's the sign of a weak mind, IMO.

Theologically, yeah - they should have an answer for every question. The good philosophical debates have come with the rabbis that were well-versed in philosophy, and the insights into culture and observance have (generally) not. The scene in Gran Torino where Walt takes down the priest is a really great example of what I mean - earning your frock don't make you any smarter just like earning an MD doesn't make you a better surgeon.

I've also met MDs that were teabaggers and lawyers that are hippies. The world is a weird place.
 
2012-07-09 10:11:55 AM  
Scanning the thread, I see the usual from the smug liberals of fark.com - i.e. leaping to the defense of islam and attacking Christianty. Liberals love 'em some islam, there's no doubt.


And I see the usual 'Fark Four' as well: The crusades (neglecting the ORIGINAL muslim one, of course), witch burnings, spanish inquisiotion and - naturally - that scourge which plagues our land.... 'the abortion bombings'. That's fine. Despising and mocking Christians is nothing new, it's not clever, modern or anything else. They did the same thing to Jesus when he was walking around! Yep, they had smug, self-satisfied idol-worshippers 2,000 years ago too.

Bottom line: Here's all you need to know about islam vs Christianity in 2012.
 
2012-07-09 10:12:00 AM  

Joe Blowme: HAMMERTOE: Joe Blowme: Ahh, the ole justifying present day retardation by pointing to centuries old retardation.
The classic " but mommy, Billy did it too!!!!"

"Justify"?

My friend, religion is in no way "justified." Neither by the facts, nor by the evidence, nor even by the bible. I can list no less than three ways in which the bible falls flat on its face.

I really dont care about the bible, im not religious but to say "but but but christains killed people too!!!" when confronted with the fact that islam remains an extreme and violent death cult today as it was centuries ago is IMHO, is dumb. Maybe you are not justifying it or defending it but it sure sounds like it. My aplogies if i have misinterpreted your point.


People feel uncomfortable talking about Islam so they talk about a different religion whos followers are less likely to behead them for bad mouthing their beliefs.

/the power of religion
 
2012-07-09 10:18:02 AM  

steamingpile: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

I was surprised it took someone this long to lump Christian in with this, it par for Fark, any religious mental cases are immediately compared to the west's religions. If its Christians trying to pass local laws to be stupid then that's just as good as Muslims killing people for not being "Muslim" enough. There is one widespread religion who still feels the need to take up weapons to use violence to prove their religion is the one true religion and does it more than any other religion.

When I was involved in the church they just prayed for people and never threatened to kill anyone, but yeah they are the same.


It will take only one post for people to start telling you that Christians would physically torture and beat you if they thought they could get away with it.
 
2012-07-09 10:18:40 AM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: Religion has contributed nothing. Except misery. What does being able to set yourself on fire accomplish?


To be fair, religion was the best guess at how things worked when humanity was starting out. Similar to the alchemy example a few posts up, though as our understanding develops religion got outmoded.

I'll give a pass to the ancient Greeks, the Latins, the Sumerians, and so on, because given the (lack of) data 'invisible man in the sky' makes as much sense as, and possibly more than "equalization of friction-driven atmospheric charge through the path of least resistance".

If you're talking any period after the rise of Athens and then Rome in the west, or the first Chinese empire in the east, though, no. No excuse. Religion since then has been maintained entirely to retain the institution's worldly powers. I have a beef with Christianity specifically because the rise of the religion involved a very intentional rejection of rational thought in favor of library-burning and suppressing discovery. At least things like Buddhism and Islam developed in regions before science (well, it's precursors empiricism and organized observation and logic, but still) wasn't really a developed, and were just never particularly comfortable with change. Christianity kind of deserves the abuse it gets because it started in a region full of half-developed science and great minds and specifically set about smashing all of the former and slaughtering all of the latter whenever they popped up. It goes a step beyond just being wrong and counterproductive and enters the realm of the outright malicious from the get-go.

//First person to say "but the monks preserved the knowledge of Rome" wins a free internet punch to the face, they preserved a few scraps of poetry and the works of like two philosophers who agreed largely with church teachings. Why those two? Because the church intentionally hunted down and destroyed the writings of the others.
 
2012-07-09 10:22:15 AM  

Sgt Stubby: Bottom line: Here's all you need to know about islam vs Christianity in 2012.


"You are going to hell, the man told her. You are living in darkness."

Funny that Aftab's religion would tell that man the exact same thing.
 
2012-07-09 10:27:07 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Inflatable Rhetoric: Religion has contributed nothing. Except misery. What does being able to set yourself on fire accomplish?


To be fair, religion was the best guess at how things worked when humanity was starting out. Similar to the alchemy example a few posts up, though as our understanding develops religion got outmoded.

I'll give a pass to the ancient Greeks, the Latins, the Sumerians, and so on, because given the (lack of) data 'invisible man in the sky' makes as much sense as, and possibly more than "equalization of friction-driven atmospheric charge through the path of least resistance".

If you're talking any period after the rise of Athens and then Rome in the west, or the first Chinese empire in the east, though, no. No excuse. Religion since then has been maintained entirely to retain the institution's worldly powers. I have a beef with Christianity specifically because the rise of the religion involved a very intentional rejection of rational thought in favor of library-burning and suppressing discovery. At least things like Buddhism and Islam developed in regions before science (well, it's precursors empiricism and organized observation and logic, but still) wasn't really a developed, and were just never particularly comfortable with change. Christianity kind of deserves the abuse it gets because it started in a region full of half-developed science and great minds and specifically set about smashing all of the former and slaughtering all of the latter whenever they popped up. It goes a step beyond just being wrong and counterproductive and enters the realm of the outright malicious from the get-go.

//First person to say "but the monks preserved the knowledge of Rome" wins a free internet punch to the face, they preserved a few scraps of poetry and the works of like two philosophers who agreed largely with church teachings. Why those two? Because the church intentionally hunted down and destroyed the writings of the others.


www.madtomatoe.com
 
2012-07-09 10:27:58 AM  

Giltric: People feel uncomfortable talking about Islam so they talk about a different religion whos followers are less likely to behead them for bad mouthing their beliefs.


Actually, I don't talk more about Islam because, frankly, you can see examples of its hatred, violence and just plain ignorance in the news on a daily basis. This, and the fact that I am largely unacquainted with most of its teachings. I stick to the subject I know best. I have tried a great majority of the Christian religions. Every last one is so hypocritical as to be a cartoon. They pray to their god to heal them, not thinking for once that their god gave them whatever affliction they're praying to get healed in the first place. This indicates that they feel they are "smarter" than their god, and seek to bring god around to their way of thinking. The Catholics I am acquainted with best, having attended catholic schools through the 9th grade. Catholicism = militarism + christianity. (Stand now. Sit now. Kneel now. Chant this invocation now.)
 
2012-07-09 10:28:20 AM  
Jim_Callahan, though you obvious intellect is dazzling, St. Paul was definitely a well-educated man. His home town of Tarsus was a center for higher-learning in his day. He was intelligent enough to know sh*t from shinola, and so were a great many others in that time.

Your condescending mocking of Christianity doesn't set you apart as being particularly bright or original. They mocked and spit upon Jesus while he died on the cross. In time, just about all the apostles were beaten to death, beheaded or whatever as well.

You're not saying anything 'new' that wasn't new 2,000 years ago.


/the only difference is that you don't have the freedom to spit on muslims in a muslim country, like you do with Christians here. Notice the difference?
 
2012-07-09 10:28:27 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Inflatable Rhetoric: Religion has contributed nothing. Except misery. What does being able to set yourself on fire accomplish?


To be fair, religion was the best guess at how things worked when humanity was starting out. Similar to the alchemy example a few posts up, though as our understanding develops religion got outmoded.


That's fair.
But, religion was wrong then, and is wrong now, and is a parasite on humanity.
 
2012-07-09 10:31:27 AM  

doglover: Ever wonder why so many jews seem to be lawyers? Seems like half their religion is learning god's law by heart and the other half is finding way around it.


You apparently don't know many Jewish lawyers if you think that many care about the old rules.
 
2012-07-09 10:31:28 AM  
They are just upset that a Muslim predicted something that is essential for Catholicism. After all, you can't have Mass without Higgs bosons.
 
2012-07-09 10:32:23 AM  
Religion is proof of our evolutionary relationship to poo-flinging apes.
 
2012-07-09 10:33:26 AM  

TheotherMIguy: I still blame the British though. Without them, the sub-continent would be a vastly different place right now: Richer, probably more religiously tolerant, and less nuke happy.


I blame Gandhi. If the British had stayed in control of India, it would be a much nicer place than it is now.
Same with all the new African countries. The end of Colonialism was what turned them into the mess they are today.
 
2012-07-09 10:35:00 AM  

Sgt Stubby: And I see the usual 'Fark Four' as well: The crusades (neglecting the ORIGINAL muslim one, of course), witch burnings, spanish inquisiotion and - naturally - that scourge which plagues our land.... 'the abortion bombings'. That's fine. Despising and mocking Christians is nothing new, it's not clever, modern or anything else. They did the same thing to Jesus when he was walking around! Yep, they had smug, self-satisfied idol-worshippers 2,000 years ago too.


Oh boo farking hoo. Go try to sell your repressed faithful act somewhere else. We aren't buying it here.
 
2012-07-09 10:39:17 AM  

Sgt Stubby: Jim_Callahan, though you obvious intellect is dazzling, St. Paul was definitely a well-educated man. His home town of Tarsus was a center for higher-learning in his day. He was intelligent enough to know sh*t from shinola, and so were a great many others in that time.

Your condescending mocking of Christianity doesn't set you apart as being particularly bright or original. They mocked and spit upon Jesus while he died on the cross. In time, just about all the apostles were beaten to death, beheaded or whatever as well.

You're not saying anything 'new' that wasn't new 2,000 years ago.


/the only difference is that you don't have the freedom to spit on muslims in a muslim country, like you do with Christians here. Notice the difference?


st. Augustine stated that curiosity was a waste of time, because it kept you from reflecting on the glory of God.

Granted, he already had his party days when he decided to put the kibosh on everyone else.
 
2012-07-09 10:41:37 AM  

lawboy87: Plenty are filled with those who would do things like forcibly banish homosexuals to some fenced in concentration camp and deprive them of food until they were all dead. Some would whip up a frenzy calling for the death of abortion providers and then run and hide when one of their followers actually starts killing doctors and nurses and plants booby traps in an effort to kill first responders. While other churches may be filled with those who still oppose a racially integrated society and engage in practices related to the KKK.


HOLY CRAP that sounds terrible. Try a methodist church instead. We have coffee!
 
2012-07-09 10:55:31 AM  
Egoy3k: Go try to sell your repressed faithful act somewhere else. We aren't buying it here.


I'm not 'selling' anything, and neither was Jesus. So save the righteous indignation.

I was trying to make a point, which is obviously lost on the angry liberals of fark.com. The point is simply that if I lived in Pakistan, I'd have acid thrown in my face, have my house burned down or just be killed outright (more or less what people like you did to early Christians). In fact, the same thing would happen to me in ANY muslim sh*thole on earth were I to practice Christianity openly.

Oddly, muslims are free to build mosques and pray to allah in any christian country. But to the liberals of fark.com, there is no difference and Christians are still FAR worse. Simply amazing...
 
2012-07-09 10:59:23 AM  

fireclown: lawboy87: Plenty are filled with those who would do things like forcibly banish homosexuals to some fenced in concentration camp and deprive them of food until they were all dead. Some would whip up a frenzy calling for the death of abortion providers and then run and hide when one of their followers actually starts killing doctors and nurses and plants booby traps in an effort to kill first responders. While other churches may be filled with those who still oppose a racially integrated society and engage in practices related to the KKK.

HOLY CRAP that sounds terrible. Try a methodist church instead. We have coffee!


And doughnuts
 
2012-07-09 11:07:01 AM  

Sgt Stubby: Scanning the thread, I see the usual from the smug liberals of fark.com - i.e. leaping to the defense of islam and attacking Christianty. Liberals love 'em some islam, there's no doubt.


Who in this thread was "leaping to the defense of islam and attacking Christianty"?
 
2012-07-09 11:19:21 AM  
What's in their textbooks, other than "God is Great?"
 
2012-07-09 11:30:17 AM  
This is the same country that Abdul Sattar Edhi has to worry about being car bombed for providing free hospital service to everyone. Seriously fundies, stop being dicks
 
2012-07-09 11:50:26 AM  
i50.tinypic.com

It's easy. Try it.
 
2012-07-09 11:54:37 AM  
well, having your discovery nicknamed "the god particle" is gonna help your popularity in pakistan and mississippi about as much as having it nicknamed "the hitler particle" would in germany and israel.
 
2012-07-09 11:56:16 AM  

Sgt Stubby: I'm not 'selling' anything, and neither was Jesus. So save the righteous indignation.

I was trying to make a point, which is obviously lost on the angry liberals of fark.com. The point is simply that if I lived in Pakistan, I'd have acid thrown in my face, have my house burned down or just be killed outright (more or less what people like you did to early Christians). In fact, the same thing would happen to me in ANY muslim sh*thole on earth were I to practice Christianity openly


You are coming awfully close to comparing yourself with Jesus. I'm pretty sure that is kind of offensive to christians.

You don't know me or anything about me. Don't presume to state what 'people like me' would or would not have done to you. You aren't persecuted, pretending that you are isn't going to win an argument. Nobody made any claims about christianity being worse than islam, that's like arguing that it's worse to die of AIDS than it is to die of cancer. Both are bad enough, and debating shades of awful isn't a worthwhile exercise.
 
2012-07-09 11:58:03 AM  
Islam. We Hate Everything, Including Each Other™
 
2012-07-09 12:01:23 PM  

yourdogwantsplacenta: fireclown: lawboy87: Plenty are filled with those who would do things like forcibly banish homosexuals to some fenced in concentration camp and deprive them of food until they were all dead. Some would whip up a frenzy calling for the death of abortion providers and then run and hide when one of their followers actually starts killing doctors and nurses and plants booby traps in an effort to kill first responders. While other churches may be filled with those who still oppose a racially integrated society and engage in practices related to the KKK.

HOLY CRAP that sounds terrible. Try a methodist church instead. We have coffee!

And doughnuts


You talking to me?
 
2012-07-09 12:11:09 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: doglover: Religion is like a sport for your mind.

Lots of brain damage from repeated collisions?


I lol'd.
 
2012-07-09 12:49:07 PM  

Sgt Stubby: The point is simply that if I lived in Pakistan, I'd have acid thrown in my face, have my house burned down or just be killed outright (more or less what people like you did to early Christians). In fact, the same thing would happen to me in ANY muslim sh*thole on earth were I to practice Christianity openly.


Look, if you want a plane ticket to the Middle East, do a Kickstarter project. Much as I'd like, I can't throw in on any air fare.
 
2012-07-09 12:52:10 PM  

doglover: Yes, blame all religions.


I do.

Religion is the blind acceptance of and adherence to dogma, even when it is directly contradicted by observed fact.

Science is the acceptance of observed fact, even when it directly contradicts a previously-held position.

They are completely opposite world views.
 
2012-07-09 12:59:36 PM  

Sgt Stubby: Egoy3k: Go try to sell your repressed faithful act somewhere else. We aren't buying it here.


I'm not 'selling' anything, and neither was Jesus. So save the righteous indignation.

I was trying to make a point, which is obviously lost on the angry liberals of fark.com. The point is simply that if I lived in Pakistan, I'd have acid thrown in my face, have my house burned down or just be killed outright (more or less what people like you did to early Christians). In fact, the same thing would happen to me in ANY muslim sh*thole on earth were I to practice Christianity openly.

Oddly, muslims are free to build mosques and pray to allah in any christian country. But to the liberals of fark.com, there is no difference and Christians are still FAR worse. Simply amazing...


Yes, Islam today is where Christian culture was 500 years ago. Our culture progressed and gradually became more tolerant, while Islam seems to be regressing if anything.

What you fail to consider is that the progress made by western culture happened IN SPITE of opposition from the religious establishment. The great thinkers and reformers often faced fierce resistance from the religious authorities who rightly saw rational inquiry as a threat to their domination of the minds and bodies of their fellow men.

The scientists, statesmen, philosophers, and academics never-the-less persevered, and dragged our culture forward, despite the kicking and screaming of the religious elites. Thus we got the Age of Enlightenment, the Scientific Revolution, and so on. Sadly Islam has as yet not experiences a like phenomenon. (Or perhaps one could say it was occurring, and then was somehow snuffed out.)

Today we enjoy a style of government and cultural tolerance that owes everything to the great revival of rational thought that finally put an end to the religious ignorance of the dark ages. Yet it's an ongoing struggle with the forces of ignorance, because religion itself never changed. Today's faithful fervently believe the exact same holy text that their ancestors venerated 1000 years ago.

Today the "liberals" still seem to generally have the upper hand, but the tide appears to be turning in places like Texas and Kansas, where they are altering their textbooks in exactly the same way as Pakistan. They are doing it for the same reason, too; to minimize the accomplishments of key historical figures (like Thomas Jefferson and Charles Darwin) whose views are not considered "orthodox" by the increasingly fanatical religious majority.

Those of us who cherish our personal freedoms and have no desire to submit to religious domination find this trend very disturbing. Pakistan serves as a grim reminder of where this slide into ignorance could leave us, if the religious/political movement continues to gain ground.
 
2012-07-09 12:59:48 PM  

clyph: doglover: Yes, blame all religions.

I do.

Religion is the blind acceptance of and adherence to dogma, even when it is directly contradicted by observed fact.

Science is the acceptance of observed fact, even when it directly contradicts a previously-held position.

They are completely opposite world views.


Yup. It's a pure binary, all right. No shades of gray here, my friend - you're either a toga-wearing, goat farming, blind adherent to 2000 year old dogma or you're a bright-eyed, labcoat-wearing, degree-holding, nuclear physicist/astronomer/chemist/sociobiologist (with a minor in paleobotany and sociozoology).

If there weren't 3 examples proving you wrong from within my own nuclear family, I might take umbrage to your statement.
 
2012-07-09 01:01:59 PM  

Sgt Stubby: Bottom line: Here's all you need to know about islam vs Christianity in 2012.


Really?
 
2012-07-09 01:08:06 PM  

sithon: SoothinglyDeranged: This is the sad reality of our world. The persecution of some of our most brilliant minds because *insert religious bullshiat here*

see:
Alan Turing
Galileo Galilei
et alia

Darwin could be added to that list.


no worries the blindly religious still defend him, everyone knows the cambrian explosion never really happened

stewpid creationists
 
2012-07-09 01:13:59 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Yup. It's a pure binary, all right. No shades of gray here, my friend - you're either a toga-wearing, goat farming, blind adherent to 2000 year old dogma or you're a bright-eyed, labcoat-wearing, degree-holding, nuclear physicist/astronomer/chemist/sociobiologist (with a minor in paleobotany and sociozoology).


To be fair here, there are tons of people living massive amounts of cognitive dissonance regarding their religion and the real world.

They say they believe all the laws from sky dad are just and moral. Even the source of all just and moral laws.

At the same time, they ignore the bits about how to buy, sell and treat slaves.

So the shades of grey people your talking about, are either ignorant about their religion, or just cherry picking.
 
2012-07-09 01:26:50 PM  

Dr Dreidel: It's a pure binary, all right. No shades of gray here, my friend - you're either a toga-wearing, goat farming, blind adherent to 2000 year old dogma or you're a bright-eyed, labcoat-wearing, degree-holding, nuclear physicist/astronomer/chemist/sociobiologist (with a minor in paleobotany and sociozoology).


People are quite capable of embracing different approaches to different topics. The majority of scientists consider themselves religious. The scientific and religious approaches, however, are mutually exclusive. In particular, there is no mention of any religious influence on any well-established scientific theory -- yes, that includes evolution. Neil Tyson referred to this (more specifically "intelligent design") as "God of the Gaps". Wherever the religious approach is applied, all progress on knowledge stops. A nuclear physicist who happens to be an "intelligent design" nutcase won't bother to learn a lick of biology. What's the incentive? Religion has all the answers for questions that are never asked. The most frightening manifestation of religion, however, is the destruction of existing knowledge. The only way you get a chemist to believe in intelligent design is to replace a biology text with a Bible.

Now, there are plenty of scientists that believe in a vague "higher power" that Christians happily count as one of their own in anecdotes, polls and surveys, but to call them "religious" is an overstatement. I suppose if you believe in God and go to church you're a Christian, but that's not far off from a Deist who just honors traditional customs. At that point we need to clarify the line between a faith and a cultural community. Invariably, the first defense of religion is the arbitrary standard used to determine what a "real" follower is. The standards swing dramatically when a religion is trying to pad its numbers or purging those they view lacking in faith.
 
2012-07-09 01:30:56 PM  

Raharu: To be fair here, there are tons of people living massive amounts of cognitive dissonance regarding their religion and the real world.


This^

I drunk what: no worries the blindly religious still defend him, everyone knows the cambrian explosion never really happened


lulz almost simulpost :D

Raharu: At the same time, they ignore the bits about how to buy, sell and treat slaves guidelines that only applied to jews under the Old Law


ftfy

Raharu: So the shades of grey people your talking about, are either ignorant about their religion, or just cherry picking.


Raharu: Dr Dreidel: Yup. It's a pure binary, all right. No shades of gray here, my friend


*snerk*
 
2012-07-09 01:31:51 PM  

Raharu: Dr Dreidel: Yup. It's a pure binary, all right. No shades of gray here, my friend - you're either a toga-wearing, goat farming, blind adherent to 2000 year old dogma or you're a bright-eyed, labcoat-wearing, degree-holding, nuclear physicist/astronomer/chemist/sociobiologist (with a minor in paleobotany and sociozoology).

To be fair here, there are tons of people living massive amounts of cognitive dissonance regarding their religion and the real world.

They say they believe all the laws from sky dad are just and moral. Even the source of all just and moral laws.

At the same time, they ignore the bits about how to buy, sell and treat slaves.

So the shades of grey people your talking about, are either ignorant about their religion, or just cherry picking.


Assuming that religion is both an all-or-nothing proposition, and a top-down hierarchy.

I realize it's trite, but saying "these are the rules" doesn't mean "these are all the rules I follow to the letter". There are also (at least in Judaism) myriad interpretations of what any given rule means.

It also may mean that there are people who accept the basic tenets of the faith (read up on Maimonedes' 13 Principles of Judaism - nothing about slaves or subjugation there, and very little metaphysics beyond "God as judge/lawmaker" and "messiah") and not some of the more oppressive rules. You can call it cherry-picking; I just call it "the evolution of socioreligion".

Because the Christianity practiced today looks very little like Christianity of even 200 years ago. Ditto Islam. Ditto Judaism. Things change depending on social mores and zeitgeist - I suspect the focus on a single Levitical line Christianity uses today will, in a generation or two, be thought as quaint as not eating meat on Fridays used to be.

// and the rules about slaves don't require you to own one
// they're also somewhat surprising - slaves must sleep on beds as good as the household's, can't be injured, must be fed/watered appropriately
 
2012-07-09 01:38:53 PM  

dragonchild: Dr Dreidel: It's a pure binary, all right. No shades of gray here, my friend - you're either a toga-wearing, goat farming, blind adherent to 2000 year old dogma or you're a bright-eyed, labcoat-wearing, degree-holding, nuclear physicist/astronomer/chemist/sociobiologist (with a minor in paleobotany and sociozoology).

People are quite capable of embracing different approaches to different topics. The majority of scientists consider themselves religious. The scientific and religious approaches, however, are mutually exclusive. In particular, there is no mention of any religious influence on any well-established scientific theory -- yes, that includes evolution. Neil Tyson referred to this (more specifically "intelligent design") as "God of the Gaps". Wherever the religious approach is applied, all progress on knowledge stops. A nuclear physicist who happens to be an "intelligent design" nutcase won't bother to learn a lick of biology. What's the incentive? Religion has all the answers for questions that are never asked. The most frightening manifestation of religion, however, is the destruction of existing knowledge. The only way you get a chemist to believe in intelligent design is to replace a biology text with a Bible.

Now, there are plenty of scientists that believe in a vague "higher power" that Christians happily count as one of their own in anecdotes, polls and surveys, but to call them "religious" is an overstatement. I suppose if you believe in God and go to church you're a Christian, but that's not far off from a Deist who just honors traditional customs. At that point we need to clarify the line between a faith and a cultural community. Invariably, the first defense of religion is the arbitrary standard used to determine what a "real" follower is. The standards swing dramatically when a religion is trying to pad its numbers or purging those they view lacking in faith.


Funny you mention chemistry.

My dad holds a PhD in the subject - and every Friday night/Saturday, he's in synagogue (OK, not *every* week). He's also a big deGrasse Tyson fan (they both went to Bronx Science).

You can believe without believing in the god of the gaps. My dad's thesis, for example (on the arrangement of free radicals in organic crystals, IIRC), doesn't devolve to "...and from there, we can see the influence of the almighty." You can believe that the universe is complex and believe that it was created by god without believing that there is some level of detail which we cannot observe because that's where god lives.

In fact, I'd wager that what drives believers to be scientists is what drives a person to be a watch repairman or electrician - you want to figure out how something that complex works. For all the people that improved on natural processes (the inventor of SCUBA, for example), I don't think they believed they were "usurping" god's role in creation/as creator; merely adding to it.

// not a believer
// just get really cheesed off when people think they know how believers think
// 9/10 times, you're seeing an asshatty form of Christianity and extrapolating outward
 
2012-07-09 01:42:34 PM  

dragonchild: The most frightening manifestation of religion, however, is the destruction of existing knowledge. The only way you get a chemist to believe in intelligent design is to add a biology text with a Bible.


and for them to use just a fraction of their given IQ

the only way you get a butthurt atheist to believe in scientific evidence is to replace the god delusion with a biology text

/and some creme to sooth the cramping
//linked text for bonus lulz

we need to make a new macro that rallies support for the poor oppressed atheistic-darwin evolutionists

i suggest a pacman shaped pie graph
 
2012-07-09 02:13:47 PM  

Dr Dreidel: My dad holds a PhD in the subject - and every Friday night/Saturday, he's in synagogue (OK, not *every* week). He's also a big deGrasse Tyson fan (they both went to Bronx Science).

You can believe without believing in the god of the gaps. My dad's thesis, for example (on the arrangement of free radicals in organic crystals, IIRC), doesn't devolve to "...and from there, we can see the influence of the almighty." You can believe that the universe is complex and believe that it was created by god without believing that there is some level of detail which we cannot observe because that's where god lives.


But where did his noption of god come in? Is it something he came up with all on his own in his path of studies? Or is it a holdover of something was taught as fact as a child?

Herein lies another problem... everyone has their own definition of god. I would imagine your PhD father might not hold the same definition as a bible literalist, but they use the same words and try to refer to the same thing.
 
2012-07-09 02:18:26 PM  

stonicus: Dr Dreidel: My dad holds a PhD in the subject - and every Friday night/Saturday, he's in synagogue (OK, not *every* week). He's also a big deGrasse Tyson fan (they both went to Bronx Science).

You can believe without believing in the god of the gaps. My dad's thesis, for example (on the arrangement of free radicals in organic crystals, IIRC), doesn't devolve to "...and from there, we can see the influence of the almighty." You can believe that the universe is complex and believe that it was created by god without believing that there is some level of detail which we cannot observe because that's where god lives.

But where did his noption of god come in? Is it something he came up with all on his own in his path of studies? Or is it a holdover of something was taught as fact as a child?

Herein lies another problem... everyone has their own definition of god. I would imagine your PhD father might not hold the same definition as a bible literalist, but they use the same words and try to refer to the same thing.


Religion is a personal set of beliefs, some of which come from values instilled at a young age, some of which are dogmatic, and some are derived from personal observations made throughout life?

You don't farking say.

// my parents don't have the same religious/metaphysical views
// both are Jewish, both are Orthodox, both are postgraduate-degree holders from NY
 
2012-07-09 02:37:15 PM  

lohphat: Ever notice that countries that are "hell holes" are so due to conservative ideology, while more liberal and tolerant countries seem to be more advanced?


Like Best Korea and China? ;-)
 
2012-07-09 02:45:11 PM  

CheatCommando: doglover:

Religion is like a sport for your mind..

So religion, like sport, is a triviality? I hunk I can get behind that. Also, we can liken the Christians in this country to asshole Yankee fans who think the umps always call against them!


How many Christians do you know? Not people who just say they're Christian but also act it?
 
2012-07-09 02:54:19 PM  

Dr Dreidel: clyph: doglover: Yes, blame all religions.

I do.

Religion is the blind acceptance of and adherence to dogma, even when it is directly contradicted by observed fact.

Science is the acceptance of observed fact, even when it directly contradicts a previously-held position.

They are completely opposite world views.

Yup. It's a pure binary, all right. No shades of gray here, my friend - you're either a toga-wearing, goat farming, blind adherent to 2000 year old dogma or you're a bright-eyed, labcoat-wearing, degree-holding, nuclear physicist/astronomer/chemist/sociobiologist (with a minor in paleobotany and sociozoology).

If there weren't 3 examples proving you wrong from within my own nuclear family, I might take umbrage to your statement.


He said religion...implying AS A WHOLE.

Do the three members of your family encompass an entire religion?

It's like the analogy above where someone said, facetiously, "well, MY chapter of the KKK has never killed anyone and we have a stretch of highway where we volunteer to pick up trash once a year, so we're not so bad after all."
 
2012-07-09 03:45:32 PM  
Sgt Stubby: Bottom line: Here's all you need to know about islam vs Christianity in 2012.

"You are going to hell, the man told her. You are living in darkness."

Impasse: Funny that Aftab's religion would tell that man the exact same thing.


The part that gets me is that here is a man who's idea of "darkness" is NOT holding a screaming woman down while he tortures and mutilates her.
 
2012-07-09 03:47:09 PM  

Sgt Stubby: Your condescending mocking of Christianity doesn't set you apart as being particularly bright or original. They mocked and spit upon Jesus while he died on the cross. In time, just about all the apostles were beaten to death, beheaded or whatever as well.


2.bp.blogspot.com

Since there seems to be some confusion.
 
2012-07-09 03:51:47 PM  

Raharu: So the shades of grey people your talking about, are either ignorant about their religion, or just cherry picking.


Because YOU, of course, are an expert on religions. All religions.
 
2012-07-09 04:04:46 PM  

ciberido: Raharu: So the shades of grey people your talking about, are either ignorant about their religion, or just cherry picking.

Because YOU, of course, are an expert on religions. All religions.


I have not devoted my life to it no, but I have read a great deal about, it and have a good amount of life experience dealing with it. So I would have to say that the shades of grey people are ignorant of their religion, or they are just cherry picking the parts they like, and more often then not, its the parts that help them hate on other people.
 
2012-07-09 04:59:00 PM  

Raharu: ciberido: Raharu: So the shades of grey people your talking about, are either ignorant about their religion, or just cherry picking.

Because YOU, of course, are an expert on religions. All religions.

I have not devoted my life to it no, but I have read a great deal about, it and have a good amount of life experience dealing with it. So I would have to say that the shades of grey people are ignorant of their religion, or they are just cherry picking the parts they like, and more often then not, its the parts that help them hate on other people.


See, I did devote part of my life to it. The first 18-20 years, in fact. Spent 16 years in religious schools, buying the tropes and internalizing the messages. When I left, I left on my own terms; not out of some misplaced rage at teachers or "anger at the system" for forcing me into it.

There are positive lessons and valuable lessons to be learned from theology and theologic texts (and probably not all lessons that men of the cloth want us to learn). Science cannot teach ethics, they can only study ethics. Science cannot imbue morality, it examines morality. Sure, we can examine which moral codes are effective in which areas, and I don't mean to discount science as a means of understanding, but what I do mean is that observation is only part of the human condition.

The emotional (OK, largely irrational) parts of life often have no "right" answers. Religion isn't the single right answer any more than Astronomy is, but it's an answer to questions people have asked for millenia.

// astronomy can't teach you how to be an effective parent, or that teaching a kid to swim is important
// if you want to know about the observable universe, though - ain't nothing better
// and none of this suggests infallibility of religion and the people that practice it
 
2012-07-09 05:27:12 PM  
And then we have all the Farkers that hate Christianity and yet have no problem with this kind of bullshiate from Islamofacists.
 
2012-07-09 05:50:40 PM  

Dr Dreidel: , but it's an answer to questions people have asked for millenia.

No its not, its not at all.

Dr Dreidel: There are positive lessons and valuable lessons to be learned from theology and theologic texts


I'll bite, such as?

Dr Dreidel: Science cannot teach ethics, they can only study ethics. Science cannot imbue morality, it examines morality. Sure, we can examine which moral codes are effective in which areas, and I don't mean to discount science as a means of understanding, but what I do mean is that observation is only part of the human condition.


We don't need religion to teach us Ethics or how to be ethical.
You may, here's a link to help with that.
http://www.ethicalstl.org/

I mean at least I don't, I mean I don't need a sky daddy to keep me from going over to my neighbors house and cracking open his skull to feast on the goo inside, and then having a bit of the old in out with his wife.
 
2012-07-09 06:14:45 PM  

Raharu: I mean at least I don't, I mean I don't need a sky daddy to keep me from going over to my neighbors house and cracking open his skull to feast on the goo inside, and then having a bit of the old in out with his wife.


does your neighbor feel the same way?

i hope your superior ethics are genetic, then we can just make sure that only people that have this magical ethics gene are allowed to reproduce...

Raharu: We don't need religion to teach us Ethics or how to be ethical.


absolutely correct! but do you need religion to teach you how to be moral? (and more to the point what morality IS?)

btw who makes the rules about what is ethical and what is not?
 
2012-07-09 06:21:09 PM  

Raharu: I mean at least I don't, I mean I don't need a sky daddy to keep me from going over to my neighbors house and cracking open his skull to feast on the goo inside, and then having a bit of the old in out with his wife.


A lot of highly religious people would disagree on that point--they honestly believe that without some higher power ready to punish the wicked, everyone would do exactly those sorts of things.

My guess is that people like that have their moral development stuck at Kohlberg stage 1 (i.e. "I shouldn't do bad things because I'll get punished if I do"), and can't imagine that higher levels are even possible. Which, unfortunately, creates a potentially dangerous situation because in order to participate fully in the social contract of a modern democracy, one must have a more nuanced understanding of morality (stage 5 on the Kohlberg scale).
 
2012-07-09 06:21:36 PM  

ciberido: Since there seems to be some confusion.


i suggested a pacman shaped pie chart

ciberido: Because YOU, of course, are an expert on religions. All religions.


i'd settle for an expert on science, are there any of them left??
 
2012-07-09 06:22:57 PM  

I drunk what: Raharu: I mean at least I don't, I mean I don't need a sky daddy to keep me from going over to my neighbors house and cracking open his skull to feast on the goo inside, and then having a bit of the old in out with his wife.

does your neighbor feel the same way?

i hope your superior ethics are genetic, then we can just make sure that only people that have this magical ethics gene are allowed to reproduce...

Raharu: We don't need religion to teach us Ethics or how to be ethical.

absolutely correct! but do you need religion to teach you how to be moral? (and more to the point what morality IS?)

btw who makes the rules about what is ethical and what is not?


How about I buy you a copy of the Selfish Gene and the God Delusion and let you puzzle it out from there.

Those are waaaay better books then the blood soaked bible to puzzle out the answer to your questions. I don't want a thing to to with any of the Gods of the Big 3.

Id follow the teaching of Aslan before the Big 3, at least Hes intelligently designed.

Objective Morality vs. Christianity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXO26pObTZA
Link

Enjoy!
 
2012-07-09 06:45:25 PM  

Raharu: Id follow the teaching of Aslan before the Big 3, at least Hes intelligently designed.


unfortunate example you've chosen there...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aslan
"The author, C. S. Lewis, described Aslan as an alternative version of Christ, that is, as the form in which Christ might have appeared in a fantasy world."
 
2012-07-09 07:04:21 PM  

Raharu: How about I buy you a copy of the Selfish Gene and the God Delusion and let you puzzle it out from there.


meh:

I drunk what: the only way you get a butthurt atheist to believe in scientific evidence is to replace the god delusion with a biology text


i know, i know

we've already covered this like a brazillion times, but maybe this time it will work?

Raharu: Id follow the teaching of Aslan before the Big 3, at least Hes intelligently designed.


the Tao? i thought He was nameless? how does one follow the teachings of a nameless god?

or perhaps you meant the buddha? or some flying monkey? give me a hint

Raharu: Those are waaaay better books then the blood soaked bible to puzzle out the answer to your questions.


the cat in the hat is waaaay better than any chronicles of the civil war, but that doesn't make it any closer to reality

perhaps we can all just stick out heads into some morphine soaked sand and all those nasty problems will just go away-work themselves out...?

sounds like a great plan

i'm still waiting to hear who gets to decide what is ethical and what is not?

is it this asian god of yours? does he have a name?
 
2012-07-09 07:17:46 PM  

proteus_b: Raharu: Id follow the teaching of Aslan before the Big 3, at least Hes intelligently designed.

unfortunate example you've chosen there...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aslan
"The author, C. S. Lewis, described Aslan as an alternative version of Christ, that is, as the form in which Christ might have appeared in a fantasy world."


www.terrariaonline.com
 
2012-07-09 07:19:26 PM  

Raharu: Objective Morality vs. Christianity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXO26pObTZA
Link

Enjoy!


lulz!!

entertainment indeed, i don't even know where to begin

can i just post a spoiler *delicious irony* and leave it at that?

sam harris is an awesome "debater" and anyone who hides behind his cowardice, saves me a bunch of typing, thanks

your youtube narrator needs moar checkmate theists, checkmate

he is being much too subtle for the fark audience, they are extremely dense

moving on...

Ethics? who gets to decide??
 
2012-07-09 07:25:52 PM  

I drunk what: Raharu: Objective Morality vs. Christianity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXO26pObTZA
Link

Enjoy!

lulz!!

entertainment indeed, i don't even know where to begin

can i just post a spoiler *delicious irony* and leave it at that?

sam harris is an awesome "debater" and anyone who hides behind his cowardice, saves me a bunch of typing, thanks

your youtube narrator needs moar checkmate theists, checkmate

he is being much too subtle for the fark audience, they are extremely dense

moving on...

Ethics? who gets to decide??


I reeeemember you now! You are the guy who thinks hes some kind of guru atop the mountain!

Im gona leave this right here for you.

img204.imageshack.us
 
2012-07-09 07:49:49 PM  

Raharu: Objective Morality vs. Christianity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXO26pObTZA
Link

Enjoy!


btw everything written in the OT =/= The Word of God, nor does it equal The Law (aka God's Law)

the laws of moses, priests, etc.. during OT times was the ignorance that God ignored (temporarily) the 10 commandments is an example of God's Law, which even the OT jews got horribly wrong within their own "guidelines" created by men

bickering over all the details of exactly which claims in the OT were legit from God or just some over zealous priest-prophet-etc.. claiming stuff "in the name of God" is pointless since there is no way we could make such evaluations today (after the fact) without God's divination

completely ignoring the fact that God could have authorized any of the OT claims, and still be Holy, Loving, etc.. (Moral) since God is not bound to any sense of Man's inability to understand Logic, Good, Evil, etc.. but for the sake of this discussion it won't help any to go into such details since most atheists do not even have the remotest idea of any of these terms to begin with (since they usually can't even get past some of the most basic concepts of objective vs. relative, etc..) but then they just jump ahead to bickering about all the details concerning OT vs NT and then will tangent over to insisting on how this doesn't prove God's existence, and swirl around into a whirlpool of ignorance, confusion, and frustration until their brain just gives up and they stamp their feet and start cursing all religious people. which isn't helping

at least your youtube narrator was intelligent enough to understand that craig completely destroyed harris (in that one sided "debate") and at a minimum was able to understand what the debate was about and follow through in a professional and intelligent manner (which harris couldn't even do that right, but he was able to be a douche bag about it, good for him)

even if craig was unable to convince the narrator (who wasn't present at the debate) about a DIFFERENT TOPIC

for shame craig, what was he thinking??

*rolls eyes*

/this is actually typical of these kinds of discussions
//lots of wasted typing...
 
2012-07-09 07:52:44 PM  

Raharu: Im gona leave this right here for you.


it's a simple logic test, can you understand it?

because if you can't handle that elementary level stuff, this theism stuff is going to be way over your head

Raharu: You are the guy who thinks hes some kind of guru atop the mountain!


what is the difference between you and IDW?
 
2012-07-09 08:05:36 PM  
How's the trolling going IDW? Any bites?

...still just a sky wizzard.
 
2012-07-09 08:08:09 PM  

Nick the What: How's the trolling going IDW? Any bites?

...still just a sky wizzard.


thesignalinthenoise.files.wordpress.com

/derp
 
2012-07-09 08:24:51 PM  

I drunk what: Nick the What: How's the trolling going IDW? Any bites?

...still just a sky wizzard.

[thesignalinthenoise.files.wordpress.com image 300x225]

/derp


Sorry IDW. Just messin' with ya?

So you seem to be down with the celebrity Atheist/Theist's. Ever read Lee Strobel?

What a tard.
 
2012-07-09 08:37:16 PM  

Nick the What: Just messin' with ya?


yes

Nick the What: Sorry IDW.


apology accepted, now go and sin no more

Nick the What: So you seem to be down with the celebrity Atheist/Theist's.


actually the more popular they are, the less likely they are to have something useful to say (e.g. ray comfort, kirk cameron, and their counterparts sam harris, richard dawkins)

unfortunately they tend to be a medium people are willing to discuss or at least have some knowledge of

Nick the What: Ever read Lee Strobel?


yes, and i was not impressed (and if i was an atheist i'd probably be even less impressed)

but ya know, there are a lot of people out there with absolutely nothing to say and waste a lot of our time saying it
 
2012-07-09 08:49:01 PM  

I drunk what: Nick the What: Just messin' with ya?

yes

Nick the What: Sorry IDW.

apology accepted, now go and sin no more

Nick the What: So you seem to be down with the celebrity Atheist/Theist's.

actually the more popular they are, the less likely they are to have something useful to say (e.g. ray comfort, kirk cameron, and their counterparts sam harris, richard dawkins)

unfortunately they tend to be a medium people are willing to discuss or at least have some knowledge of

Nick the What: Ever read Lee Strobel?

yes, and i was not impressed (and if i was an atheist i'd probably be even less impressed)

but ya know, there are a lot of people out there with absolutely nothing to say and waste a lot of our time saying it


TL...May not watch.

BUT, the first part, "Come home to the Catholic church..."

You got a hard on for the Catholics, don't ya'?

Would you say you are intolerant of them?
 
2012-07-09 10:04:09 PM  

Nick the What: TL...May not watch.


that's the point-joke

/don't bother and just believe what i said
//or see for yourself if you lack faith

Nick the What: You got a hard on for the Catholics, don't ya'?


when the world speaks of "xians" who do you think they most frequently equivocate them with?

Nick the What: Would you say you are intolerant of them?


i am extremely intolerant of those that twist the Truth beyond any form of recognition

twould be better off for them had they just been atheists

concerning the topic of religion would you suggest that they are helping?
 
2012-07-09 10:14:26 PM  

I drunk what: concerning the topic of religion would you suggest that they are helping?


I was going to ask you that.

So, do you hate your parents?

Are you being honest...truthful ?


Tatsumai, the Jew, likes The Smiths. Do you think he is going to HELL*? Or are you one of those "ONLY GOD KNOWS PEOPLE"?

I work with 2 people at my work. One of them is a Muslim from Pakistan. He hates the sectarian violence in his country. And worries about his family left behind.

*Are Catholics going to hell?
 
2012-07-09 10:39:44 PM  

I drunk what: when the world speaks of "xians" who do you think they most frequently equivocate them with?


I don't think they think of Catholics. Paranoid much? Don't worry, Monty Python gave them the what-for in fark popular culture.
 
2012-07-09 10:43:41 PM  

I drunk what: religion would you suggest that they are helping?


They're xians. Do they believe Jesus was a deity? yes? Then they're Christians. What ever they do, I attribute to "xians".
 
2012-07-10 01:12:28 AM  

I drunk what: but that doesn't make it any closer to reality


How so? What did Jebus say that was so great?

I drunk what: apology accepted, now go and sin no more


My christian wife loves my sin...ooooh yeah

I drunk what: i am extremely intolerant of those that twist the Truth beyond any form of recognition


Then you are just as atheist as me. The Truth (tm) being any truth/god/first cause that disagrees with Catholics (Jesus followers). Where would be without Mary biatch!..loves his Marrys ?

I drunk what: i am extremely intolerant of those that twist the Truth beyond any form of recognition


Ooh FFS, how much is it any different? "Don't be a dick." Isn't that what any Christian says is the basic message? How could you argue with that? Protestant, Catholic? They both say the same boring thing. Be good. But, it's romanticized! Big deal!

Romanticism, that's all it is. A bunch of poetry that chicks at church's sing to.

...still just a sky wizard, Yahweh that is.

I drunk what: objective vs. relative, etc


Any argument you've ever made is relativism
 
2012-07-10 01:21:48 AM  

I drunk what: your youtube narrator needs moar checkmate theists, checkmate


Edward Current is awesome! That's some quality satire right there!

He bugs you doesn't he? Ha ha!
 
2012-07-10 01:47:03 PM  

Nick the What: So, do you hate your parents?


i hate when people won't read things in context

however given the choice between serving my parents vs. serving The Lord, i will choose to "hate" my parents and obey God

Nick the What: Are you being honest...truthful ?


It's too late to change events
It's time to face the consequence
For delivering the proof
In the policy of truth

Nick the What: Tatsumai, the Jew, likes The Smiths.


i prefer DM

Nick the What: Do you think he is going to HELL*?


Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. ~John 14:6

Nick the What: Or are you one of those "ONLY GOD KNOWS PEOPLE"?


Only God can Judge (final) people. IDW knows people better than they know themselves...

and we judge (discern) people often, contrary to the twisting of scripture forbidding us to judge one another, which is not a problem for those who read things IN context

Nick the What: I work with 2 people at my work. One of them is a Muslim from Pakistan. He hates the sectarian violence in his country. And worries about his family left behind.


perhaps he should spend more time worrying about his religious beliefs and less time about politics

Nick the What: Are Catholics going to hell?


Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. ~John 14:6

i suppose it is possible that a few of them might accidentally find The Way, though once they have, they won't be catholic much longer

actions speak louder than words

Nick the What: I don't think they think of Catholics.


think again

i'll give you a hint: when the media speaks about "The Church" are they referring to The Church(es) of Christ? or some other protestant group?

/but hey times are a changin'
//lets keep our fingers crossed

Nick the What: Paranoid much?


nah, just observant

Nick the What: Do they believe Jesus was a deity? yes?


Does Lucifer and his demons believe Jesus is a deity? more so than any catholic

ergo?

Nick the What: Then they're Christians.


Wrong.

Nick the What: What ever they do, I attribute to "xians".


i know you do, that's why i said

thesignalinthenoise.files.wordpress.com

srsly
 
2012-07-10 01:54:31 PM  

Nick the What: What did Jebus say that was so great?


Love thy enemies.

/oh and that how to obtain salvation stuff
//minor details

Nick the What: "Don't be a dick." Isn't that what any Christian says is the basic message?


i've not come to bring peace, but a sword

you may have noticed that on occasion i offend someone, so i guess you could say, that i'm being a "dick" to their precious delusions

Nick the What: They both say the same boring thing.


then what is all the fuss about?

Nick the What: Any argument you've ever made is relativism


you are objectively being an idiot

Nick the What: Edward Current is awesome! That's some quality satire right there!

He bugs you doesn't he? Ha ha!


it bugs me that people refer to him as "awesome" and that he produces "quality" satire

/but it doesn't surprise me
 
2012-07-10 02:24:11 PM  

I drunk what: Does Lucifer and his demons believe Jesus is a deity?


This is interesting. Do go on.

He could be a Christian. Just a bad one by your standards.

If he doesn't think Jesus/God is a deity, then would that be because Lucifer is also a deity?

er...Is the lord not also his father in heaven?

I drunk what: Love thy enemies.


I'm sure he wasn't the first dude in human history to understand what it means to live with hate.

I drunk what: Nick the What: Any argument you've ever made is relativism

you are objectively being an idiot


a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com

I was just foolin' about.
 
2012-07-10 02:37:48 PM  

I drunk what: perhaps he should spend more time worrying about his religious beliefs and less time about politics


No, no. He's a true Muslim. Very peaceful.
 
2012-07-10 03:42:29 PM  

proteus_b: the story of the headpiece at his grave is also pretty amusing. it originally read "first muslim nobel prize winner", but since he was mahdi and this is apparently heretical according to the majority in pakistan (as well as in most of the muslim world... i suppose kind of the way that mormons are not really considered christian by many other christians), they removed the "muslim" from the stone so that it now just nonsensically reads "first nobel prize winner"...


The Law of Unintended Consequences is a beautiful thing.
 
2012-07-10 09:16:43 PM  

Nick the What: No, no. He's a true Muslim. Very peaceful.


ah yes the religion of peace

would you like some more kool aid? your cup runneth low

hmmm
 
2012-07-10 09:48:31 PM  

I drunk what: Nick the What: No, no. He's a true Muslim. Very peaceful.

ah yes the religion of peace

would you like some more kool aid? your cup runneth low

hmmm


Well, you've done a good job at pointing out the inevitable** evils of a religious holy book. Congratulations IDW!! Very good. Now you're getting it! Well done, lad.

**adj inevitable [inˈevitəbl]
that cannot be avoided; certain to happen, be done, said, used etc The Prime Minister said that war was inevitable.


I'm gonna' bevets up this thread with some quote mining...ahem...forgive me:

"I am driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it." - George Bush
 
2012-07-11 04:54:58 PM  

Nick the What: Well, you've done a good job at pointing out the inevitable** evils of a religious holy book.


4.bp.blogspot.com

upload.wikimedia.org

lulz yep

Nick the What: "I am driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it." - George Bush


well i'm convinced, jebus was a myth *highfive*

checkmate theists, checkmate

/that's some quality satire you're doing there lad

have you figured out how to solve Raharu's puzzle yet?

Raharu: Im gona leave this right here for you.


img204.imageshack.us

:D
 
2012-07-11 07:53:49 PM  

I drunk what: have you figured out how to solve Raharu's puzzle yet?


Dawkins? The card puzzle? You really don't bring your A game when it comes to poor old Nick.... :(
You're just dialing it with me.

But hey, this thread is beyond dead, isn't it? A Catholicism one just opened up!
 
2012-07-11 09:40:53 PM  

Nick the What: You really don't bring your A game when it comes to poor old Nick.... :(


www.applemontessorischools.com

ready when you are lad

/tired
//busy
///been phoning them in for over a year now
//meh
/miss the ninjakerpal32 days
 
2012-07-12 08:22:06 AM  

Nick the What: A Catholicism one just opened up!


you really got a hard on for em, eh?

/destroyed them so many times
//that dead horse is way past the glue stage
///lemme know if anything new happens
 
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