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(NPR)   Raising the federal minimum wage would do more harm than good   (npr.org ) divider line
    More: Obvious, minimum wages, Chicago's South Side, hourly workers, O'Hare International  
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16927 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2012 at 12:30 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-09 02:06:43 AM  

bhcompy: Maybe if you stopped deliberately raising inflation for the past 40 years the minimum wage wouldn't be out of whack?


how exactly has inflation been deliberately raised?

Pumpernickel bread: Don't want that. Companies may start cutting dividends to meet a higher minimum wage requirement, or even worse, the PPS may drop some. This may force some poor hard working trust fund kid to downgrade his Gulf Stream V to a Gulf Stream IV. The humanity!


The funny thing is, valuing a company based on earnings is easily the absolutely worst way to value it. It's not how companies were valued until just recently. To judge a company based upon earnings per share is to declare one is unfit to judge companies.

AverageAmericanGuy: Yes, this is a well thought out and reasonable position.


Name one person affiliated with the GOP who has shown even a passing concern about income stagnation.
 
2012-07-09 02:07:35 AM  

M-G: boomm: Looking at it the other way. Estimate an average mechanic will complete your particular job for $75/hr, and $85/hr at the dealer. If you were required to pay $90/hr for the job, wouldn't you just take it to the dealer? You're not going to hire the shop mechanic if you can get someone more qualified for the amount you're required to pay.

You're assuming that demand for the fruits of the mechanic's labor will magically drop.


Well, sure, my mistake is assuming the dealer could handle all of the shifting demand. And like WhyteRaven said, mistakenly assumed the person deciding on which service to purchase was simply basing their decision on price. But then, we are talking about assigning a minimum value to wage prices for a faceless labor pool.
 
2012-07-09 02:08:39 AM  

WhyteRaven74: how exactly has inflation been deliberately raised?


Have you seen the inflation lately??? Seriously, the recession we were just in could have been devastating if it weren't for that Fed.
 
2012-07-09 02:08:56 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Name one person affiliated with the GOP who has shown even a passing concern about income stagnation.


Only their own.
 
2012-07-09 02:10:13 AM  

Confabulat: bhcompy: Maybe if you stopped deliberately raising inflation for the past 40 years the minimum wage wouldn't be out of whack?

Who raised gas prices deliberately? Be specific.


First price controls, then laxing price controls. Nice. But beside that, there's government debt. How do you finance debt? Create more debt. Tada, inflation.
 
2012-07-09 02:10:42 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: WhyteRaven74: Name one person affiliated with the GOP who has shown even a passing concern about income stagnation.

Only their own.


William Randolph Hearst! It sure hasn't happened in the last 50 years.
 
2012-07-09 02:10:57 AM  
In a country that has a livable minimum wage, our attitude is basically "we don't care if your business fails".

Seriously, if your business model needs to fark over the workers to suceed then buh-bye. Don't let the screen door hit your arse on the way out.

And we are doing pretty all right here. The sky didn't fall and cats and dogs didn't end up sleeping together because of it.
 
2012-07-09 02:11:30 AM  

bhcompy: Confabulat: bhcompy: Maybe if you stopped deliberately raising inflation for the past 40 years the minimum wage wouldn't be out of whack?

Who raised gas prices deliberately? Be specific.

First price controls, then laxing price controls. Nice. But beside that, there's government debt. How do you finance debt? Create more debt. Tada, inflation.


Words...nothing you say actually makes sense, though.
 
2012-07-09 02:11:47 AM  

WhyteRaven74: AverageAmericanGuy: Yes, this is a well thought out and reasonable position.

Name one person affiliated with the GOP who has shown even a passing concern about income stagnation.


Awareness and concern is not what I was responding to. Rather, it was this attempt to take lack of concern to the next level and ascribe malice to them.

I honestly believe corporate CEOs look at China and their dirt-poor working conditions and child labor with envy, and REALLY want that for the USA.

I believe that is an honest belief among top Republicans in this country.

I believe this, and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.
 
2012-07-09 02:11:55 AM  

bhcompy: Confabulat: bhcompy: Maybe if you stopped deliberately raising inflation for the past 40 years the minimum wage wouldn't be out of whack?

Who raised gas prices deliberately? Be specific.

First price controls, then laxing price controls. Nice. But beside that, there's government debt. How do you finance debt? Create more debt. Tada, inflation.


This statement has no bearing in any reality I've lived in. What color is your sky? Is it purple? I like purple.
 
2012-07-09 02:12:08 AM  

Sabyen91: WhyteRaven74: how exactly has inflation been deliberately raised?

Have you seen the inflation lately??? Seriously, the recession we were just in could have been devastating if it weren't for that Fed.


To be more accurate the government was so worried about deflation that it took unprecedented measures to ensure cheap money was available with near zero rates, going nearly full Japan
 
2012-07-09 02:12:51 AM  

Confabulat: bhcompy: Confabulat: bhcompy: Maybe if you stopped deliberately raising inflation for the past 40 years the minimum wage wouldn't be out of whack?

Who raised gas prices deliberately? Be specific.

First price controls, then laxing price controls. Nice. But beside that, there's government debt. How do you finance debt? Create more debt. Tada, inflation.

This statement has no bearing in any reality I've lived in. What color is your sky? Is it purple? I like purple.


It tastes like purple. But it sounds more like orange.
 
2012-07-09 02:13:21 AM  

bhcompy: Sabyen91: WhyteRaven74: how exactly has inflation been deliberately raised?

Have you seen the inflation lately??? Seriously, the recession we were just in could have been devastating if it weren't for that Fed.

To be more accurate the government was so worried about deflation that it took unprecedented measures to ensure cheap money was available with near zero rates, going nearly full Japan


Cool, dude. Now, tell me how devastating that was....
 
2012-07-09 02:13:32 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: WhyteRaven74: AverageAmericanGuy: Yes, this is a well thought out and reasonable position.

Name one person affiliated with the GOP who has shown even a passing concern about income stagnation.

Awareness and concern is not what I was responding to. Rather, it was this attempt to take lack of concern to the next level and ascribe malice to them.

I honestly believe corporate CEOs look at China and their dirt-poor working conditions and child labor with envy, and REALLY want that for the USA.

I believe that is an honest belief among top Republicans in this country.

I believe this, and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.


I absolutely believe Republicans do not care about the welfare of the working class, as they do their damnest to harm them at every turn. Again, show me your evidence that Republicans really DO care.

Go on. Show your work. I'll wait.
 
2012-07-09 02:14:43 AM  

Confabulat: AverageAmericanGuy: Confabulat: I honestly believe corporate CEOs look at China and their dirt-poor working conditions and child labor with envy, and REALLY want that for the USA.

I believe that is an honest belief among top Republicans in this country.

I believe this, and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.

Yes, this is a well thought out and reasonable position.

Do you have some evidence to prove me wrong?


It is you who has asserted this. Unless you are simply posting bluster, it is you who should provide evidence supporting your belief.
 
2012-07-09 02:15:13 AM  
Pay people for their labor what their labor is worth to society. Most TV stars & personalities should see their wages cut by two-thirds, teachers and emergency workers should see their wages raised by two-thirds.

I'm gonna give pro athletes a pass on this rant, because the good ones, who set a good example, are worth a good bit (just not sure how much).
 
2012-07-09 02:17:06 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: *Sigh* I sure could use some idealized models.


couldn't we all?

cuzsis: Min wage is too low. You can either raise it, or pay more in taxes for people who need foodstamps, medical care, housing ect...


I've always been of the mind that large employers should just be sent a bill for all the public assistance their employees receive owing to poor wages.
 
2012-07-09 02:18:17 AM  

Ambivalence: There is a balance to be had. But when someone can't subsist (and I mean that in the barest sense) on a minimum wage, then the minimum wage is too damn low.


There is a balance to be had. But when someone can't subsist (and I mean that in the barest sense) on a minimum wage, then the minimum wage is too damn low.

There is a balance to be had. But when someone can't subsist (and I mean that in the barest sense) on a minimum wage, then the minimum wage is too damn low.

There is a balance to be had. But when someone can't subsist (and I mean that in the barest sense) on a minimum wage, then the minimum wage is too damn low.

There is a balance to be had. But when someone can't subsist (and I mean that in the barest sense) on a minimum wage, then the minimum wage is too damn low.

There is a balance to be had. But when someone can't subsist (and I mean that in the barest sense) on a minimum wage, then the minimum wage is too damn low.

 
2012-07-09 02:19:20 AM  

DeaH: Subby, did you read the article? The only "harm" mentioned was the typical thing always mentioned by business owners: that they cannot afford to pay people more and that this would lead to layoffs.


Is it REALLY better to pay ten people peanuts than to pay five people a decent living wage?
 
2012-07-09 02:19:34 AM  
Why does she have any kids if she only has minimum wage skills?

Doesn't that seem to be the 1st question?
 
2012-07-09 02:19:35 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Confabulat: AverageAmericanGuy: Confabulat: I honestly believe corporate CEOs look at China and their dirt-poor working conditions and child labor with envy, and REALLY want that for the USA.

I believe that is an honest belief among top Republicans in this country.

I believe this, and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.

Yes, this is a well thought out and reasonable position.

Do you have some evidence to prove me wrong?

It is you who has asserted this. Unless you are simply posting bluster, it is you who should provide evidence supporting your belief.


I present to you the entire platform of the modern Republican Party.

The whole damn thing.

Question?
 
2012-07-09 02:20:13 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: It is you who has asserted this. Unless you are simply posting bluster, it is you who should provide evidence supporting your belief.


Let's see the GOP is opposed to increasing the min wage, opposed to the equal pay law, opposed to various protections for labor, advances no legislation favorable to the average person....

bhcompy: Create more debt. Tada, inflation.


The United States would have a lot less debt currently if wages hadn't been stagnant for the last 30 years.
 
2012-07-09 02:21:06 AM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: /Also, you wanna fix the economy, and this country, institute a MAXIMUM wage.
.


FDR proposed this in 1942 to pay for the huge deficits incurred by WWII. He stated:
"At the same time, while the number of individual Americans affected is small, discrepancies between low personal incomes and very high personal incomes should be lessened; and I therefore believe that in time of this grave national danger, when all excess income should go to win the war, no American citizen ought to have a net income, after he has paid his taxes, of more than $25,000 a year*. It is indefensible that those who enjoy large incomes from State and local securities should be immune from taxation while we are at war. Interest on such securities should be subject at least to surtaxes."

Further:
"Some have called this an "economy of sacrifice." Some interpret it in terms that are more accurate- the "equality of sacrifice." I have never been able to bring myself, however, to full acceptance of the word "sacrifice," because free men and women, bred in the concepts of democracy and wedded to the principles of democracy, deem it a privilege rather than a sacrifice to work and to fight for the perpetuation of the democratic ideal. It is, therefore, more true to call this total effort of the American people an "equality of privilege."

I firmly believe that Americans all will welcome this opportunity to share in the fight of civilized mankind to preserve decency and dignity in modern life. For this is fundamentally a people's war-and it must be followed by a people's peace. The achievement of victory in war and security in peace requires the participation of all the people in the common effort for our common cause.
"

*Roughly $350,000 in after-tax income in today's terms.

/"Fark you - I've got mine," is anti-American.
 
2012-07-09 02:21:21 AM  

EnderX: Why does she have any kids if she only has minimum wage skills?

Doesn't that seem to be the 1st question?


Well, see, when a mommy loves a daddy very much ...
 
2012-07-09 02:21:33 AM  

Confabulat: I present to you the entire platform of the modern Republican Party.


And Eisenhower, Nixon and Goldwater roll over in their graves.
 
2012-07-09 02:21:42 AM  

Sabyen91: bhcompy: Sabyen91: WhyteRaven74: how exactly has inflation been deliberately raised?

Have you seen the inflation lately??? Seriously, the recession we were just in could have been devastating if it weren't for that Fed.

To be more accurate the government was so worried about deflation that it took unprecedented measures to ensure cheap money was available with near zero rates, going nearly full Japan

Cool, dude. Now, tell me how devastating that was....


This isn't the past 40 years, this is the past few years. And the national debt is growing at a ridiculous rate, and it will pop like everything else does at some point. 40+ years of off and on heavy debt expansion means reduced buying power, which means that minimum wage, Social Security, and everything else needs to go up regardless of any other specific market factors, like fuel.

And I'm not even getting in to government subsidies on farms and ethanol, which prop up the price we all pay on basic foods.
 
2012-07-09 02:21:55 AM  

Confabulat: AverageAmericanGuy: Confabulat: AverageAmericanGuy: Confabulat: I honestly believe corporate CEOs look at China and their dirt-poor working conditions and child labor with envy, and REALLY want that for the USA.

I believe that is an honest belief among top Republicans in this country.

I believe this, and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.

Yes, this is a well thought out and reasonable position.

Do you have some evidence to prove me wrong?

It is you who has asserted this. Unless you are simply posting bluster, it is you who should provide evidence supporting your belief.

I present to you the entire platform of the modern Republican Party.

The whole damn thing.

Question?


So you are assuming that a political view that does not conform to your conceptions of social justice is a deliberate attempt to injure an entire social class?

That's not proof, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
 
2012-07-09 02:23:10 AM  

bhcompy: This isn't the past 40 years, this is the past few years. And the national debt is growing at a ridiculous rate,


Bullshiat. The debt growth has slowed under Obama.
 
2012-07-09 02:23:31 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: So you are assuming that a political view that does not conform to your conceptions of social justice is a deliberate attempt to injure an entire social class?


No, I'm assuming a politcial view THAT MAKES ITS WHOLE DAMN PLATFORM ABOUT RUINING THE WORKING CLASS is an attempt to injure an entire social class.

It's sort of obvious. Tell me more about how Republicans care about the working man. Be very very specific.
 
2012-07-09 02:24:14 AM  

bhcompy: And the national debt is growing at a ridiculous rate


If we weren't having 30 years of income stagnation it wouldn't be. And if incomes start growing again, it'll lessen quite nicely.

AverageAmericanGuy: So you are assuming that a political view that does not conform to your conceptions of social justice is a deliberate attempt to injure an entire social class?


When a party proposes no action beneficial to an entire class and indeed proposes action harmful to that class, well there you have. Also, how would it be in any way acceptable to not care about the well being of the average person?
 
2012-07-09 02:24:16 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Confabulat: AverageAmericanGuy: Confabulat: I honestly believe corporate CEOs look at China and their dirt-poor working conditions and child labor with envy, and REALLY want that for the USA.

I believe that is an honest belief among top Republicans in this country.

I believe this, and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.

Yes, this is a well thought out and reasonable position.

Do you have some evidence to prove me wrong?

It is you who has asserted this. Unless you are simply posting bluster, it is you who should provide evidence supporting your belief.


His assertion is that no evidence exists, and now you're asking him to prove the null case, i.e. show that every single piece of evidence in all of existence is consistent with his assertion. However, all you need to do is find a single counter example and voila, you've proven him wrong.
 
2012-07-09 02:24:42 AM  
I do wish Republicans had the balls to tell us what they really think. They're such eunuchs though, they would never dare in proper company.
 
2012-07-09 02:24:49 AM  

Confabulat: AverageAmericanGuy: Confabulat: AverageAmericanGuy: Confabulat: I honestly believe corporate CEOs look at China and their dirt-poor working conditions and child labor with envy, and REALLY want that for the USA.

I believe that is an honest belief among top Republicans in this country.

I believe this, and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.

Yes, this is a well thought out and reasonable position.

Do you have some evidence to prove me wrong?

It is you who has asserted this. Unless you are simply posting bluster, it is you who should provide evidence supporting your belief.

I present to you the entire platform of the modern Republican Party.

The whole damn thing.

Question?


I cite the entire republican agenda as my counterexample, furthermore, I cite Obama's platform that he is a SEEKRET KENYAN MOOSLIM SOCIALIST.

Intellectual checkmate.
 
2012-07-09 02:25:59 AM  

WhyteRaven74: The United States would have a lot less debt currently if wages hadn't been stagnant for the last 30 years.


And wages, in general, have stagnated because of globalism. Nothing short of protectionism and/or a complete labor focus change will fix that. Oddly enough that is happening, since the only jobs that can't be relocated out of country are service jobs, which is the dominant job providing industry now. Skilled service jobs, like technical support, pay well. Walmart greeters don't, and they never were.
 
2012-07-09 02:26:08 AM  
Anybody who questions the validity of the need to raise minimum wage, anybody who claims it will raise unemployment, anybody who says it will hurt business, needs to look at Australia, their minimum wage, and their unemployment rate and shut the fark up.

Period. Stop. End of story. You are wrong. Get over it and quit screaming liking petulant children.
 
2012-07-09 02:26:22 AM  
If your minimum wage is so low that these workers need to resort to welfare and charity to survive, then you are effectively socialising the cost of the employment.

How does a country which is so anti-socialismt allow their companies to continually socialise the cost of doing business?

Bailouts, tax cuts, sub standard wages: why can't American businesses stand up without being propped up (unwillingly) by the masses?
 
2012-07-09 02:28:07 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: That's not proof, that's just, like, your opinion, man.


There's no such thing as proof, in my opinion. Of course, I don't have any proof of that ...
 
2012-07-09 02:28:35 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: cman: Not every business is ran by a millionaire who snorts coke off of a whores tit.

Thanks. You just ruined my dream of owning my own business.


Hey, buck up. He said not every business.
 
2012-07-09 02:28:47 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: AverageAmericanGuy: That's not proof, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

There's no such thing as proof, in my opinion. Of course, I don't have any proof of that ...


Prove it!
 
2012-07-09 02:29:45 AM  
Bill Dunkelberg, chief economist for the National Federation of Independent Businesses, a group that lobbies against increasing the minimum wage, says that every dollar an employee gets comes out of somebody's pocket.

Wow! This guy's a GENIUS!


DeltaPunch: Another fine example of 0bama's overreach


The derp is strong with this one. Didn't read the article, did you?

In 2008, President Obama campaigned on a promise to raise the minimum wage. He hasn't.

I'd call you an idiot but I see it's already been covered.
 
2012-07-09 02:29:58 AM  

Sabyen91: bhcompy: This isn't the past 40 years, this is the past few years. And the national debt is growing at a ridiculous rate,

Bullshiat. The debt growth has slowed under Obama.


atlasfrontiers.files.wordpress.com

Let me know when debt growth is at light speed. Maybe we're not going plaid anymore, but shiat's still at least ridiculous.
 
2012-07-09 02:31:08 AM  

bhcompy: in general, have stagnated because of globalism.


That's a nice canard a lot of people who want to either avoid the issue or don't want to actually blame the people who would be blamed for it throw it. But it has nothing to do with it.
 
2012-07-09 02:31:30 AM  

Ambivalence: Abox: Raising minimum wage doesn't increase the value of minimum wage jobs.

Unless those jobs are undervalued as they are. Who determines the value of a job? The employer? The employee? The company's customer?


Jesus.
 
2012-07-09 02:31:53 AM  

super_grass: I cite the entire republican agenda as my counterexample, furthermore, I cite Obama's platform that he is a SEEKRET KENYAN MOOSLIM SOCIALIST.

Intellectual checkmate.


I thought we were playing checkers?
 
2012-07-09 02:32:16 AM  

bhcompy: Let me know when debt growth is at light speed. Maybe we're not going plaid anymore, but shiat's still at least ridiculous.


And if wages weren't stagnant it wouldn't have ever gotten so bad. But to deal with that takes putting blame on some people you won't blame for anything ever.
 
2012-07-09 02:34:08 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: AverageAmericanGuy: That's not proof, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

There's no such thing as proof, in my opinion. Of course, I don't have any proof of that ...


I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this comment box is too narrow to contain.
 
2012-07-09 02:35:35 AM  
I don't even think most conservatives know why they are against a minimum wage increase. They are like little Pavolvian dogs, freaking out every time a rich man has to shell out a buck to the poor man on the government's watch. All they know is how to grrrrr and whine. Critical thinking is not encouraged among that pack.
 
2012-07-09 02:36:49 AM  
The people making minimum wage are making that for a reason. They're not worth a real wage. So either you're an uneducated kid developing your skills or you're a worthless adult who eschewed the free education and opportunities to take your mind to it's fullest extent possible. Tough shiat.

I rose above minimum wage in 1993 while I was still in high school. I washed dishes in a Mexican restaurant in a podunk little town in northwest Washington. There is no reason for any adult to make that wage or anything close to it. When a dumbass kid makes more than you, you've proven your worthlessness to the world.
 
2012-07-09 02:39:41 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this comment box is too narrow to contain.


Fermat would smack you around until your head spun.

Smeggy Smurf: you've proven your worthlessness to the world.


With your post you have just proven that.
 
2012-07-09 02:42:40 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Smeggy Smurf: you've proven your worthlessness to the world.

With your post you have just proven that


Damn, beat me to it.
 
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