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(MSNBC)   California deliberately lets homes sit empty rather then let homeless veterans use them   (openchannel.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 261
    More: Sick, West Los Angeles, American Legion, you know  
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12613 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jul 2012 at 10:57 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-07-08 12:05:05 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: malaktaus: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Ok, I'll play Devil's advocate... why should homeless veterans get preference over other homeless people?

/and having been one of them, I can assure California has a lot of them
//discuss

Veterans are especially likely to be homeless. They make up about 10% of the general population, but about 1/3 of the homeless population. This disparity suggests that veterans are a group especially in need of help, and it would be appropriate to expend additional resources targeting them specifically.

Ok, I agree. But WHY are they homeless?

/we're going for something here...


They were probably poor to begin with- not all of them were, but compared to the general population they certainly tend to be less wealthy. Now they quite possibly have mental health problems, in some cases even brain damage, on top of poverty. On top of that, if you spend enough time in the military you get institutionalized, much like a guy who spends time in prison. When you get out it can be hard to readjust even if you aren't going crazy at the same time; it can be hard acting like a normal, sane human being through an entire job interview, and it can be hard figuring out what to do when you no longer have someone screaming it at you. If you have nothing to fall back on it's very easy to end up homeless.
 
2012-07-08 12:08:33 AM

Securitywyrm: I live near San Francisco, within 50 miles of the two locations in the story, so let's try that math. My electricity bill is, on average, $75 a month, and that's because I'm a heavy power user (Air conditioning, computer, giant TV, home 90% of the time). Times 45 people


*cue Morbo*

UTILITIES DO NOT WORK LIKE THAT!
 
2012-07-08 12:10:38 AM
We let food rot rather than feeding it to hungry people too. We also pay farmers not to grow food for various reasons also, while hungry people starve to death.

"When you introduce markets in food, then you introduce two very simple rules. The first rule is this: if you have money you can get the food from wherever around the world. The other rule market impose is this: if you do not have money, you will starve. This is an important point ... The reason why people starve is because of poverty ... not because of shortage of food ... but because the only way to access the food was through the market." -- Raj Patel

/If poor children can't buy food, do they deserve to eat?
 
2012-07-08 12:12:22 AM
Everybody knows who is getting screwed and who is doing the screwing.

And as long as we all sit around and negotiate over who gets to move up to the screwer queue from the screwee queue, *nothing* is going to change.

When an entire culture turns it's back on the obvious aspects of honesty, decency and humanity before hubris, lest you want to wait for a higher ledge in the septic tank and pronouce that "normal", you have to find out what making people behave that way and shut it off. You don't try and mitigate or excuse the results by degrees.

That's called treating the illness, not the symptom.
 
2012-07-08 12:13:11 AM
welfare and inexpensive health care for veterans is a difficult issue for Republicans. their taught to HATE the weak, and that all welfare and all inexpensive health care is 'socialisms'. But they're also taught that veterans are godz and that they should 'support the troops' at all costs. So when a vet needs welfare or access to decent medical care...the average GOP voter has a brain lock. I think most Republicans honestly do not know what to do when they see a veteran on welfare or taking food stamps. they want to hate them for being weak and socialist but at the same time they want to help.
 
2012-07-08 12:13:45 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: never an envisioning of having a continuous supply of wounded veterans, and states felt obliged to their residents who volunteered.


WHAT THE FARK
The only reason that we currently have such a large supply of wounded soldiers is because of two incredibly farked up wars started by W.

Korean and Vietnam were a cake walk in comparison.
Toss in the insane expense of not having a draft and using contract labor instead???
Shudder
What a complete waste of life and money.

/We need a new amendment. Any time an american is deployed overseas (war, peacekeeping, whatever) it is required that there be a draft and that all children/grandchildren/aunts/uncles/cousins of congress (of proper age) be deployed first.
/no deferments - period. they can peel potatoes
 
2012-07-08 12:15:54 AM
God money I'll do anything for you.
God money just tell me what you want me to.
God money nail me up against the wall.
God money don't want everything he wants it all.
 
2012-07-08 12:16:44 AM

namatad:
/We need a new amendment. Any time an american is deployed overseas (war, peacekeeping, whatever) it is required that there be a draft and that all children/grandchildren/aunts/uncles/cousins of congress (of proper age) be deployed first.
/no deferments - period. they can peel potatoes


nah. my idea was that if a vet is killed while on deployment, then their surviving immediate family (wife/husband/kids) pay no state or federal taxes for 10 years. If we're going to get a lot of veterans killed then lets give their surviving families a free pass for a decade.
 
2012-07-08 12:16:57 AM
I wonder if the facilities' mortgage is included in the monthly maintenance cost.

/Didn't RTFA
 
2012-07-08 12:17:51 AM

malaktaus: MaudlinMutantMollusk: malaktaus: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Ok, I'll play Devil's advocate... why should homeless veterans get preference over other homeless people?

/and having been one of them, I can assure California has a lot of them
//discuss

Veterans are especially likely to be homeless. They make up about 10% of the general population, but about 1/3 of the homeless population. This disparity suggests that veterans are a group especially in need of help, and it would be appropriate to expend additional resources targeting them specifically.

Ok, I agree. But WHY are they homeless?

/we're going for something here...

They were probably poor to begin with- not all of them were, but compared to the general population they certainly tend to be less wealthy. Now they quite possibly have mental health problems, in some cases even brain damage, on top of poverty. On top of that, if you spend enough time in the military you get institutionalized, much like a guy who spends time in prison. When you get out it can be hard to readjust even if you aren't going crazy at the same time; it can be hard acting like a normal, sane human being through an entire job interview, and it can be hard figuring out what to do when you no longer have someone screaming it at you. If you have nothing to fall back on it's very easy to end up homeless.


Close, but what I was leaning towards was a general lack of job skills. Public schools certainly don't teach them anymore, and if you volunteer and wind up Infantry, you're not likely to get a whole lot of training in marketable skills.
 
2012-07-08 12:19:16 AM

simkatu: We let food rot rather than feeding it to hungry people too. We also pay farmers not to grow food for various reasons also, while hungry people starve to death.

"When you introduce markets in food, then you introduce two very simple rules. The first rule is this: if you have money you can get the food from wherever around the world. The other rule market impose is this: if you do not have money, you will starve. This is an important point ... The reason why people starve is because of poverty ... not because of shortage of food ... but because the only way to access the food was through the market." -- Raj Patel

/If poor children can't buy food, do they deserve to eat?


Strangely enough, we have a wonderful food for poor people program in the US. I am not certain that there are people starving in the US. Hungry? sure. Homeless, mentally ill/addict and hungry? sure. But starving to death?

Can you find a stat on how many people in the US have died from starvation per year?
(Yes, I know more about malnutrition than you can imagine. Talking about death from starvation.)

/rest of the world? um sorry. Unless we get to make the rules, why would you expect us to feed EVERYONE? And we already give billions and billions in food aid. How much money is wasted by the UN trying to get food to truly starving people because of warlords and corruption? and yet we keep on trying. Which is at least something.
/Should we go to war with NK to stop the NKs from starving to death? Because the current NK government wont "let" us feed them.
/shudder games we play with the peasants
/people get the government that they deserve.
 
2012-07-08 12:19:16 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk:
Close, but what I was leaning towards was a general lack of job skills. Public schools certainly don't teach them anymore, and if you volunteer and wind up Infantry, you're not likely to get a whole lot of training in marketable skills.


lets just say that the local security guards are gonna be REALLY well trained....
 
2012-07-08 12:19:55 AM

Krieghund: Securitywyrm:
This kind of waste makes me angry. You look at how much money they spend to build these things, that would have paid RENT MONEY for every one of the people it could have possibly housed, for as long as the facility would have been open.

Read TFA again. These are nursing homes. The veterans don't need RENT MONEY, they need ASSISTED LIVING.

I don't understand why this is a state thing though. Do other states run nursing homes for veterans?


You see we used to have these things called State Hospitals, they were used for psychiatric care, medical needs, long term care. We used to have a lot of them. And people who were homeless (the majority of homeless people have severe medical, emotional, and psychiatric problems that keep them homeless) would be kept there where in the best of times they would receive the care they needed, and at worst at least they were being kept out of the general population to whom they were either a danger to or in danger of.

But then Reagan came along those programs were destroyed so that he could give rich people tax breaks (sound familiar) and rack up the dept on needless military projects (boy am I the only one getting deja vu?)

So all those people that needed assistance were thrown out on the street to fend for themselves. And a lot of them just died, but the ones that didn't, well there's a big part of our homeless problem.
 
2012-07-08 12:21:24 AM

Weaver95: nah. my idea was that if a vet is killed while on deployment, then their surviving immediate family (wife/husband/kids) pay no state or federal taxes for 10 years. If we're going to get a lot of veterans killed then lets give their surviving families a free pass for a decade.


sure - but unintended consequences are terrifying.
1) we have MUCH MUCH less death in way and TONS more purple hearts with massive injuries. So killed should include seriously disabled. Lost a finger? meh. Lost an arm? yes.
2) congress/military would use tons more civilian contractors and consultants who would be exempt. shudder
 
2012-07-08 12:21:34 AM
Weaver95:
technically, that would be everyone on the north american continent who isn't native american. you're gonna have to narrow it down a bit.

Why do people keep saying things like this? Most of us aren't descended directly from people who stole land from them ol' Injuns. I'm pretty sure most of us have ancestors who came to Ellis Island (or similar), asked the first people they saw "Hey, it it ok if we move in?", heard "sure, come on it!", and weren't "invading" anything. I'm also pretty sure that the "actual" homeowner never said "Hey, get out of my house" - and so, after a couple hundred years, I'm pretty sure most of us have some kind of universally-recognized squatter's rights by now. ;)
 
2012-07-08 12:22:04 AM

namatad: MaudlinMutantMollusk: never an envisioning of having a continuous supply of wounded veterans, and states felt obliged to their residents who volunteered.

WHAT THE FARK
The only reason that we currently have such a large supply of wounded soldiers is because of two incredibly farked up wars started by W.

Korean and Vietnam were a cake walk in comparison.
Toss in the insane expense of not having a draft and using contract labor instead???
Shudder
What a complete waste of life and money.

/We need a new amendment. Any time an american is deployed overseas (war, peacekeeping, whatever) it is required that there be a draft and that all children/grandchildren/aunts/uncles/cousins of congress (of proper age) be deployed first.
/no deferments - period. they can peel potatoes


Dude.. you yanked that right out of context

/see: "war to end all wars"
 
2012-07-08 12:24:41 AM

namatad: Weaver95: nah. my idea was that if a vet is killed while on deployment, then their surviving immediate family (wife/husband/kids) pay no state or federal taxes for 10 years. If we're going to get a lot of veterans killed then lets give their surviving families a free pass for a decade.

sure - but unintended consequences are terrifying.
1) we have MUCH MUCH less death in way and TONS more purple hearts with massive injuries. So killed should include seriously disabled. Lost a finger? meh. Lost an arm? yes.
2) congress/military would use tons more civilian contractors and consultants who would be exempt. shudder


oddly enough, i'm ok with watching the Federal government use civilian contractors to wage war instead of sending troops overseas. outsourcing war?

scrapetv.com

wanna know how I got these scars?
 
2012-07-08 12:28:19 AM
We can't staff any of these, but lets spend ten billion on a new monorail anyway.
 
2012-07-08 12:28:20 AM

dannysauer: Why do people keep saying things like this? Most of us aren't descended directly from people who stole land from them ol' Injuns.


No, but we sure as hell didn't mid raiding the pantry and putting our feet up on the sofa after the first wave of blatant theft stuck a comfy cushion under our asses. Many useful things are born of pain. We're supposed to learn how to use those things in a way that benefits everybody, even the screwed and discarded - after the fact of their being established - so that we can avoid getting more blood on our hands. So far, the little 16mm film loop of "F*ck you! Gimmie! We win, so we are righteous!" has been playing for centuries. We're a bit slow on the uptake, as a species.
 
2012-07-08 12:31:32 AM

dannysauer:
Why do people keep saying things like this? Most of us aren't descended directly from people who stole land from them ol' Injuns. I'm pretty sure most of us have ancestors who came to Ellis Island (or similar), asked the first people they saw "Hey, it it ok if we move in?", heard "sure, come on it!", and weren't "invading" anything. I'm also pretty sure that the "actual" homeowner never said "Hey, get out of my house" - and so, after a couple hundred years, I'm pretty sure most of us have some kind of universally-recognized squatter's rights by now. ;)


never said we were...I merely find it interesting when someone says they wanna deport 'illegal aliens' when our ENTIRE COUNTRY was founded by people who got themselves kicked out of all the other decent countries in europe. All of us are descended from people who got run out of somewhere else. you'd figure that would make us all a wee bit more tolerant....
 
2012-07-08 12:31:58 AM

CruJones: We can't staff any of these, but lets spend ten billion on a new monorail anyway.


Between Bakersfield and Madera

/what could possibly go wrong?
 
2012-07-08 12:32:49 AM

Weaver95: NewportBarGuy: kmmontandon: Be specific

There are usually a handful of comments from either known trolls or users who post so infrequently they don't even matter.

there's been a noticeable increase in that last one. i'm seeing extremely hostile and/or asinine comments from accounts that have been dormant for years.

I suspect that some of our more prolific trolls are using their fallback fark accounts for their more vile partisan dickery.



Election season
 
2012-07-08 12:34:09 AM

SgtArkie: Hey foreign invader get on this bus and go the fark home



And yet you still signed up for military service to go to Iraq... and expect to be called a hero for it.
 
2012-07-08 12:37:55 AM

Gyrfalcon: Krieghund: Securitywyrm:
This kind of waste makes me angry. You look at how much money they spend to build these things, that would have paid RENT MONEY for every one of the people it could have possibly housed, for as long as the facility would have been open.

Read TFA again. These are nursing homes. The veterans don't need RENT MONEY, they need ASSISTED LIVING.

I don't understand why this is a state thing though. Do other states run nursing homes for veterans?

Yes.

My dad calls them "Old Soldiers' Homes," which is essentially what they are. Look up what the American Legion does; this is what this nursing home is for.


But the American Legion isn't a part of the state government.

I'm not trolling or playing dumb, I just seriously don't understand why this isn't a part of the VA.

As a matter of fact, I thought that was precisely what some of those buildings were at the VA in Westwood.
 
2012-07-08 12:38:07 AM

namatad: How much money is wasted by the UN trying to get food to truly starving people because of warlords and corruption?



Usually it's America supplying those warlords with weapons in the first place
 
2012-07-08 12:40:12 AM
California

No budget for operating new Homeless Veterans facility
$4.2 million to staff a facility they can't allow anyone to stay in
$3.5 million to pay maintenance to care for the place no one can stay in

But ...

California Assembly of Baboons votes to spend $48 billion to build high speed rail connecting L.A. and San Francisco. Which are already connected by air travel.

California asks, Why we so broke?
 
2012-07-08 12:46:05 AM

Clemkadidlefark: California Assembly of Baboons votes to spend $48 billion to build high speed rail connecting L.A. and San Francisco. Which are already connected by air travel.


Cause infrastructure spending is such a bad thing. And California shouldn't be paying for the Veterans, the DoD should be. And California should try like hell to make the people responsible for those veterans being veterans to pay for them which is their ethical duty.
 
2012-07-08 12:48:53 AM
But critics say those facilities are just the latest example of waste at the agency, which has asked voters and the state legislature for money to build veterans homes but then fails to staff them once they are built.

Bingo. They build the facilities with no money allocated for running them. They then leak stories like this to imply the politicians don't care about veterans. All of a sudden, the bureaucrats get their staff and funding increased.

Every time they fail to do a job they wind up getting rewarded with more money. This is why they intentionally fail halfway through every job.
 
2012-07-08 12:49:22 AM
Here's an idea, a housing fund for combat vets. If you are a combat vet and have a home and for some reason you either can't keep or find a job, you walk in, tell them your name, and they write checks to cover your rent or mortgage. If you're homeless, you get a place to live, an actual place to live, an apartment, paid for, including utilities.
 
2012-07-08 12:51:52 AM

angryjd: Every time they fail to do a job they wind up getting rewarded with more money. This is why they intentionally fail halfway through every job.


It shouldn't be the state's job to cover costs for veterans, ever. The military should be making sure they have proper housing and medical care for as long as they need it. Also making sure disabled veterans get proper pensions from day one. It's the DoD that makes the veterans, it can damn well take care of them afterwards. No state should be tasked with providing basic services and items to veterans. If they want to go above and beyond, no problem, but it should never ever fall to a state to provide basic care for veterans.
 
2012-07-08 12:56:18 AM

WhyteRaven74:
It shouldn't be the state's job to cover costs for veterans, ever. .


in a perfect world that'd be true. But the Federal government doesn't seem to be willing (or able) to fulfill its responsibilities towards its citizens. some of the states are trying to step up and honor those obligations.
 
2012-07-08 12:56:21 AM

NFA: mauricecano: Wait so they're waiting on government handouts for living space instead of doing it as an individual?

Well our modern military is the most socialist entity to ever exist in the USA. They get their food, housing, clothing, medical care and nearly all other needs provided by the government. Not to mention they can retire at 38 and get a check for the rest of their lives.


You've been watching to many recruiting commercials. Lest tackle food and housing first. When you're in basic training, or a single soldier/airmen/seaman in your first year or so of service you live in a dorm and get your meals free at the chow hall. Everyone else gets a food and housing allowance, which doesn't cover what you actually spend. There is base housing which is free and includes basic utilities (gas, water, elec) but most places its very limited and only 15-20 percent of members get assigned housing.

They don't provide clothing, they provide uniforms one time in basic training. After that you get a yearly uniform allowance which covers the cost of about two new sets. The rest is up to you. Seeing as most of the uniforms also require dry cleaning it gets pretty expensive.

They do provide medical for you, but it's not 100% free for your dependants, you still can have a lot of out of pocket expense the same as anyone else.

I have no clue what you mean by "every other needs" because you get a paycheck and that's about it. I mean a military base is more like a close knit community, they have cheap movie theaters, billeting (the equivalent of a hotel) chapels, stores and things like that but I would hardly call it providing everything you need.

And for all that you have to sign away your life in 4 year chunks. Your typical day starts around 5 am with a nice hour or so of PT, then it's off to your duty section for another 12-16 hours a day, which is your routine 7 days most weeks. There is no overtime pay in the military, you work a 40 hour week or an 80 hour week, same pay. You can spend as long as 15-24 months at a time away from your family living in conditions most people would be unable to withstand. You have to live under an incredibly strict set of rules (the UCMJ) while doing a job most people wouldn't have the fortitude, stamina or courage to do, for a paycheck most would consider insulting.

You are correct on your final point though, if you can manage to do all that for 20+ years, you get a very small check in the mail every month for the rest of your life.
 
2012-07-08 12:56:41 AM

Clemkadidlefark: Which are already connected by air travel.



Both airports are approaching their limits without expansions. LAX can't get another runway. Airplane emissions are far worse than hsr.
 
2012-07-08 12:56:59 AM

SgtArkie: Most of these "homeless veterans" are not veterans at all


So? The US is the wealthiest nation on Earth, it is indefensible that we allow people to go without housing, period. Over night shelters are crap. If we can't provide for those most in need, why even bother trying to make money?
 
2012-07-08 12:58:21 AM
I wonder where our Norquist blood cultists went? they seem to have disappeared from the thread.
 
2012-07-08 12:59:10 AM

NFA: mauricecano: Wait so they're waiting on government handouts for living space instead of doing it as an individual?

Well our modern military is the most socialist entity to ever exist in the USA. They get their food, housing, clothing, medical care and nearly all other needs provided by the government. Not to mention they can retire at 38 and get a check for the rest of their lives.


Nahh.. they get it as part of their pay package. The ones that get their needs provided are the people that get welfare checks until they can retire on SS disabiltiy at 38.

I'd rather pay someone to do work for 20 years. and maybe give him a retirement after he has busted his body at 38.
 
2012-07-08 12:59:37 AM

Weaver95: But the Federal government doesn't seem to be willing (or able) to fulfill its responsibilities towards its citizens


I can tell you who in the federal government isn't willing, or rather what party they belong to, it has three letters.

intelligent comment below: Both airports are approaching their limits without expansions. LAX can't get another runway. Airplane emissions are far worse than hsr.


Also a trip from downtown LA to downtown San Fran on high speed rail would be no slower than flying when you factor in getting to and from the airports and possible delays etc.
 
2012-07-08 01:00:07 AM

Weaver95: dannysauer:
Why do people keep saying things like this? Most of us aren't descended directly from people who stole land from them ol' Injuns. I'm pretty sure most of us have ancestors who came to Ellis Island (or similar), asked the first people they saw "Hey, it it ok if we move in?", heard "sure, come on it!", and weren't "invading" anything. I'm also pretty sure that the "actual" homeowner never said "Hey, get out of my house" - and so, after a couple hundred years, I'm pretty sure most of us have some kind of universally-recognized squatter's rights by now. ;)

never said we were...I merely find it interesting when someone says they wanna deport 'illegal aliens' when our ENTIRE COUNTRY was founded by people who got themselves kicked out of all the other decent countries in europe. All of us are descended from people who got run out of somewhere else. you'd figure that would make us all a wee bit more tolerant....


I always thought that interesting too. It's collective and/or selective amnesia or something.
 
2012-07-08 01:00:12 AM

Clemkadidlefark: California

California Assembly of Baboons votes to spend $48 billion to build high speed rail connecting L.A. and San Francisco. Which are already connected by air travel.

California asks, Why we so broke?


That rail line should create thousands of jobs to construct, run, and maintain. Air travel is expensive and a major hassle, as long as the price of rail tickets is considerably less than a plane ticket and you don't have to go through a TSA grope session to get on it will increase tourism and business activity between the cities. The plan seems like it's full of win.
 
2012-07-08 01:00:56 AM
Wow, this must be one of the biggest subby headline fails I've seen in a long time.
 
2012-07-08 01:01:06 AM
Again I say; The single thing holding this country back from complete anarchy and destruction, is the massive volume of conflicting agendas.

Unfortunately, the scales are beginning to tip as more of the little guys are slipping off the edge.
 
2012-07-08 01:02:25 AM

farkin_Gary: Again I say; The single thing holding this country back from complete anarchy and destruction, is the massive volume of conflicting agendas.

Unfortunately, the scales are beginning to tip as more of the little guys are slipping off the edge.


But they'll still vote Republican because the socialist Black guy is scary.
 
2012-07-08 01:04:35 AM

WhyteRaven74: Weaver95: But the Federal government doesn't seem to be willing (or able) to fulfill its responsibilities towards its citizens

I can tell you who in the federal government isn't willing, or rather what party they belong to, it has three letters


I think we all know who the elephant in the room is on this issue....that said, the fact remains that the Fed isn't living up to their promises. I'm not even sure they CAN follow through anymore. any discussion on welfare or public assistance gets bogged down in procedure and debate. And while things remain gridlocked, veterans slowly spiral the drain. some of them go under, the rest barely keep their heads above water. And nothing gets done about it.

don't worry though...tax cuts for the 1% won't be affected. that's the important bit, right?
 
2012-07-08 01:05:52 AM

Pincy: farkin_Gary: Again I say; The single thing holding this country back from complete anarchy and destruction, is the massive volume of conflicting agendas.

Unfortunately, the scales are beginning to tip as more of the little guys are slipping off the edge.

But they'll still vote Republican because the socialist Black guy is scary.


i'm not so sure. I think the GOP is starting to fragment. did you watch the slow cascade of derp that's been flowing through the right wing blogosphere since the SCOTUS decision on Obamacare? its been going some interesting places.
 
2012-07-08 01:06:25 AM

Pincy: farkin_Gary: Again I say; The single thing holding this country back from complete anarchy and destruction, is the massive volume of conflicting agendas.

Unfortunately, the scales are beginning to tip as more of the little guys are slipping off the edge.

But they'll still vote Republican because the socialist Black guy is scary.


I hear he's a secret Muslim. I read about it on Facebook
 
2012-07-08 01:06:56 AM

Weaver95: any discussion on welfare or public assistance gets bogged down in procedure and debate


The sad thing is, no one in the GOP is willing to stand up to what they're doing. Just give them a verbal beat down on the floor of the House or Senate. I seriously would, if I got the chance, love to ask Mitt what he would do about the issue of veterans just to watch him fumble, so I could say "So, you would just let them suffer then eh?"
 
2012-07-08 01:08:36 AM
This government has proved time and again that it give no farks about vets. Shame on us.
 
2012-07-08 01:08:41 AM

WhyteRaven74: Weaver95: any discussion on welfare or public assistance gets bogged down in procedure and debate

The sad thing is, no one in the GOP is willing to stand up to what they're doing. Just give them a verbal beat down on the floor of the House or Senate. I seriously would, if I got the chance, love to ask Mitt what he would do about the issue of veterans just to watch him fumble, so I could say "So, you would just let them suffer then eh?"


He'd look you right in the eye, say he was planning on doing something about it Real Soon, then blame the whole mess on Obama.

the GOP isn't big on the whole 'personal responsibility' thing. plus, a lot of the senior Republicans are certifiable whack jobs.
 
2012-07-08 01:10:51 AM

Weaver95: Pincy: farkin_Gary: Again I say; The single thing holding this country back from complete anarchy and destruction, is the massive volume of conflicting agendas.

Unfortunately, the scales are beginning to tip as more of the little guys are slipping off the edge.

But they'll still vote Republican because the socialist Black guy is scary.

i'm not so sure. I think the GOP is starting to fragment. did you watch the slow cascade of derp that's been flowing through the right wing blogosphere since the SCOTUS decision on Obamacare? its been going some interesting places.


If there's any shred of sanity left on the right, it had damn well better fragment.
 
2012-07-08 01:11:47 AM

Gyrfalcon:

My first question to the state where I reside is: Why not move in the vets who are able to take care of the facilities FIRST, instead of paying groundskeepers, etc. to "keep them operational." There are plenty of younger men who need care and homes but could do the janitorial work and would be glad to have both.


Hmm, it's hardly a new idea: several facilities of this type here in Wisconsin already do just that and have been doing so for years
 
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