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(Sun Sentinel)   Scientists insist that toxicologists were wrong and the Florida face-eater was indeed high on bath salts and synthetic marijuana and they lied in order to protect the synthetic drug industry   (sun-sentinel.com) divider line 40
    More: Followup, synthetic marijuana, drug companies, drug labs, Dr. Gary Goldberger, forensics  
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13301 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jul 2012 at 3:31 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-07-07 03:51:30 PM
6 votes:

cretinbob: who farking cares?


There are a lot of people with an interest in keeping marijuana illegal. You have various law enforcement agencies, private prisons and tactical supply companies who have a vested interest in locking users and dealers up. You also have various pharmaceutical companies who see marijuana as a competitor to their own drugs.

These groups want to continue the stigma that marijuana is a dangerous substance that can cause reefer madness as opposed to it being a recreational drug that is in many ways safer than alcohol. Decriminalization and even legalization would be bad business for them. So people do care right now... because there is an active political movement to get it reclassified.
2012-07-07 03:50:39 PM
4 votes:
I don't believe the industry is powerful enough to hold that much influence. It's more likely they covered it up because people resorting to smoking legal 'bath salts' is the best argument for legalization of harmless old mary jane in a long time.
2012-07-07 03:49:12 PM
4 votes:
I'm having trouble reconciling

Article: There are too many types of synthetic drugs and they're constantly changing, so it's impossible to test them all.

with

Subby: They lied in a conspiracy to protect the synthetic drug industry!

Am I misreading something?
2012-07-07 04:07:02 PM
3 votes:
Why does he even have to be on anything? Couldn't he just have been nuts? In every mental ward there are a few five point rooms where they just have to chain somone down for a few hours because no drug is going to bring them back.
2012-07-07 03:52:17 PM
3 votes:

Jamdug!: It's tough to test for something you don't even know exists.


CERN did it.
2012-07-07 07:08:49 PM
2 votes:
Toxicologists are at a huge disadvantage with these synthetics. Even when you're testing the pure drug, it can be a pain because it's a total unknown. In human blood or urine, it's effectively looking for a needle in a haystack. Except that you don't know which haystack or even which farm. And none of these are technically controlled substances unless the DEA decides to income the analog rule, which is rare.

The moral of the story is: drink your booze, smoke your weed, eat your mushrooms, and stay the fark away from the synthetics.
2012-07-07 04:25:57 PM
2 votes:
If synthetic marijuana does this to people I can't imagine what the real thing would do.
2012-07-07 04:13:49 PM
2 votes:
There are large possibilities of variation in these substances, but they have commonalities that can be tested for. Case of traditional hallucinogens, the tryptamine arm would be the target of choice. Analysts are not completely in the dark, they get a characteristic spike for typical bonds.
2012-07-07 03:53:41 PM
2 votes:
And if you tried to track the base chemicals for bath salt from manufacturer to legit endusers the pharma lobby would go nuts

/almost as if they were on bath salts
2012-07-07 03:53:00 PM
2 votes:
Bath salts, also known as synthetic amphetamines, are also hard to track for the same reason.

Marijuana, pot, whatever you want to call it is NOT k2 or any type of synthetic anything.
The damn article seems to be intentionally written to confuse the reader.
2012-07-07 03:43:35 PM
2 votes:
Wait, back up. BEEP BEEP BEEP.

Is subby implying that marijuana doesn't turn normal people into face eating monsters? Because that goes against everything DARE taught me.
2012-07-07 03:39:05 PM
2 votes:
So our cannibal friend went to his local dealer for some weed and ended up with some bunk ass ragweed that had been treated with bath salts and food coloring. I'm sure it was named purple kushberry or some other such nonsense.
2012-07-07 03:35:46 PM
2 votes:

Jamdug!: No they don't - the street chemists change the psychoactive ingredients so often that authorities don't even know what to look for. By the time there's a test for one, it's already on a third or fourth variation.


There could be other factors too. Like using discount kitchenware made in China that's full of lead to cook up their poison.
2012-07-07 03:34:58 PM
2 votes:

AbbeySomeone: It sure as hell wasn't weed that made him behave that way.


Are you sure? Maybe he was hyper sensitive to weed
2012-07-07 03:03:01 PM
2 votes:

AbbeySomeone: Jamdug!: It's tough to test for something you don't even know exists.

Word.
It sure as hell wasn't weed that made him behave that way. Do they even have an accurate test for bath salts?


No they don't - the street chemists change the psychoactive ingredients so often that authorities don't even know what to look for. By the time there's a test for one, it's already on a third or fourth variation.
2012-07-07 02:43:12 PM
2 votes:

Jamdug!: It's tough to test for something you don't even know exists.


Word.
It sure as hell wasn't weed that made him behave that way. Do they even have an accurate test for bath salts?
2012-07-07 01:13:21 PM
2 votes:
Which is all a conspiracy to hide the zombie apocalyse.

/Walking Dead Marathon on AMC
//First "Carl stay here" scene
2012-07-08 05:27:12 AM
1 votes:
Prohibition caused this. Just like when the same was done for alchohol, the black market discovers a profit opportunity and manufactures something which it calls `whisky`, `bourbon`, or `marijuana` but which bears no connection to the original product bearing of the name and causes people to get ill mentally and physically. Black market wins, government can`t stop them and the people suffer.

Learn from the last time and get rid of prohibition, it just does not work.
2012-07-08 12:44:10 AM
1 votes:

SquiggsIN: Tatterdemalian: One of the strongest arguments for legalization is the fact that, once safely regulated FDA drugs are available, people would drop the street corner drugs like a zombie hooker just for the safety guarantee alone.

If that were true cannabis would already be fully decriminalized. The powers that be do not want to allow that because they know that people will simply choose to grow their own at home and bypass the regulation/taxation aspect of the process.

Also, anyone who has taken (and passed) at least high school chemistry/biology should know better than to use any form of amphetamine. It's the closest thing to the old commercials of "this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs." Cannabis overall is one of the safer things you can put in your body, to this day there has never been a death from cannabis intoxication alone.


I'm not sure that's the case. Medical marijuana users can legally grow, yet they more often than not choose to buy it instead.
2012-07-07 11:40:17 PM
1 votes:

SquiggsIN: The powers that be do not want to allow [decriminalization] because they know that people will simply choose to grow their own at home and bypass the regulation/taxation aspect of the process.


Putting a taxation program in place would require some expensive legislation at federal level. You can't have a law that simply defines pot as "Cannabis Sativa is a plant you can smoke that gets you high." For starters, legislators would have to craft specific, legal definitions of what marijuana is -- right down to the percentage of chemical compounds for each variety. And thanks to scientifically minded horticulturalists, new varieties are popping up all the time.

Next, lawmakers decide to limit approval to cannabis that only contains x-amount of y-chemicals, which will likely bring the FDA into play to ensure that commercial producers are only selling pot that contains the approved levels of chemicals. The EPA might come into play to make sure nobody's using environmentally-damaging chemicals/methods of pot production. Meanwhile, rogue horticulturalists are trademarking and lobbying for their new strain of weed to get their plant on the Congressionally-approved list. That's right: more damn lobbyists!

Implementing a fair tax structure broad enough to encompass all approved formulations of marijuana will be difficult (see "damn lobbyists"). Crafting up taxation and tax collection procedures will be expensive, as these also need legislative approval. Then, offices and staff must be legislated into existence for handling weed taxation, regulatory departments to oversee the growth and manufacture, etc...

Just like any corporation, pot-growing corporations will only play by the rules as far as it allows them to profit. Lawsuits will occur as consumers who expected the same "giggles and munchies" experience from the same Brand-X (tm) weed that their friends enjoyed -- only to find to find that Brand-X (tm) gave them temporary paranoia and mild hallucinations instead.

Etc., etc., etc...

IMHO, it'd probably be more practical to allow growing and processing for personal use only, with cash fines put on huge over-the-limit amounts as "intent to distribute." It'd mean income for local governments with a minimum of expense (less legi$lation involved).

TL;DR: Taxing weed = corporate product + taxpayer dollars spend on legislation issues. Just allow a "grow yer own" amount instead.
2012-07-07 09:39:08 PM
1 votes:
Some entrepreneur will market "Zombie Kush" or something similar....
2012-07-07 08:00:04 PM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: malaktaus: signaljammer: Furthermore, the analysts stated positively that they found nothing, they did not report that they found something unknown.

Okay, now I can only assume you're trolling. You can't really be this stupid.

He's confused, for sure. How can you find something unknown?


Ah, how soon people forget Balco. This is the reason why Balco got away with doping athletes for so long. They created compounds that wouldn't be picked up by any test for PEDs because the compounds were unknown. It wasn't until somebody took one of their drugs to one of the governing bodies to be tested that they were found out. This is the same thing that has been going on with these designer drugs for years. Once the law figures one of them out and makes it illegal, they come up with a new compound that won't show up on any test and isn't illegal because it is unknown.
2012-07-07 07:22:27 PM
1 votes:

signaljammer: Your rush to insult me indicates that you probably have frontal-lobe issues--please stay away from recreational drugs.


If you say something stupid and ignorant, I'm going to call it stupid, and I don't apologize. Toxicology tests look for known substances, this shiat isn't CSI: Miami and they are not miracle workers. Furthermore, identifying these new substances is oviously fairly difficult, unless you're saying this is all a big government conspiracy, in which case you should lay off the paint chips.
2012-07-07 07:21:10 PM
1 votes:
Certainly I would like to avoid being misconstrewn. I never meant to imply that using drugs would preclude one from designing them, there are plenty of object examples to the contrary.
2012-07-07 07:15:31 PM
1 votes:
Can someone tell me why Americans let corporations test them for drugs in exchange for the privilege of having a job? It's disgraceful.
2012-07-07 06:38:05 PM
1 votes:

SquiggsIN: Tatterdemalian:

..... to this day there has never been a death from cannabis intoxication alone.


So you're sayin' it'ssquackle.com?
2012-07-07 06:30:10 PM
1 votes:

Tatterdemalian: One of the strongest arguments for legalization is the fact that, once safely regulated FDA drugs are available, people would drop the street corner drugs like a zombie hooker just for the safety guarantee alone.


If that were true cannabis would already be fully decriminalized. The powers that be do not want to allow that because they know that people will simply choose to grow their own at home and bypass the regulation/taxation aspect of the process.

Also, anyone who has taken (and passed) at least high school chemistry/biology should know better than to use any form of amphetamine. It's the closest thing to the old commercials of "this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs." Cannabis overall is one of the safer things you can put in your body, to this day there has never been a death from cannabis intoxication alone.
2012-07-07 06:15:09 PM
1 votes:

Tatterdemalian: One of the strongest arguments for legalization is the fact that, once safely regulated FDA drugs are available, people would drop the street corner drugs like a zombie hooker just for the safety guarantee alone.

After the "Fast and Furious" scandal, though, I'm pretty suspicious of arguments that are just way too picture-perfect to be real. Someone's staging and manipulating these crimes to panic us into doing what they want without thinking about the arguments against it.

/Lenin also thought his ideas were so perfect the entire world needed to be forced to adopt them for their own good
//better pray Obama's ideas really are perfect, because we're all gonna take them up the ass no matter what
///and if there's even the slightest imperfection, the damage will tear the US apart before anyone will admit it exists


Is your derp so strong you have to spew in threads that have nothing to do with it?
2012-07-07 05:25:34 PM
1 votes:

Oznog: Just another Heartland Weirdass: I'm Going with demon possession. It's equally scientific (zero percent) and even more scary.

The absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence!!!


Actually that's not necessarily true. With some basic Bayesian probability theory(A method of updating the probability you should assign to particular beliefs based on new evidence/experience) you can show that if it is possible to receive supporting evidence for a belief, but you don't, then you should assign a lower(as compared to the point in time before you checked if you received that evidence) probability to that belief being true.

/The more you know...
2012-07-07 04:58:53 PM
1 votes:

signaljammer: There are large possibilities of variation in these substances, but they have commonalities that can be tested for. Case of traditional hallucinogens, the tryptamine arm would be the target of choice. Analysts are not completely in the dark, they get a characteristic spike for typical bonds.


There are plenty of naturally occurring substances that have the same structures; in the case of the tryptamines, for instance, there is first of all tryptamine itself, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, all of which are natural metabolic byproducts which can vary in concentration from one individual to another. If it was as easy as you seem to think to identify these new substances they would not be unidentified.
2012-07-07 04:34:04 PM
1 votes:
I arrested a female for DUI and she was really jittery, constantly moving, constantly talking, and generally behaving strangely. In her car, I found a bag of some "potpourri," aka synthetic marijuana known as spice. I made the arrest and she blew as being over the limit and she told me she had smoked some of the stuff. I submitted the spice package for lab testing.

The Miami Dade county medical examiner's lab results came back as negative for any drugs; just like Mr. Eugene's blood reports.

She said it was like smoking burning plastic
2012-07-07 04:12:23 PM
1 votes:
Guy smoked some pot that was laced with "a little somethin' extra" and it made him batshiat nutso. Matches the story from people who knew him that he wasn't much of a druggy. And it was the middle of the damn day -- dude was just cruising around town.

If pot was legal, he could have bought a joint at the corner store from a regulated source, and been totally fine. But we've got private prison operators and pharmaceutical companies that need the money, so...
2012-07-07 04:07:28 PM
1 votes:
I'm going with Occam's razor. He was simply batshiat insane.
2012-07-07 03:56:11 PM
1 votes:

Just another Heartland Weirdass: I'm Going with demon possession. It's equally scientific (zero percent) and even more scary.


The absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence!!!
2012-07-07 03:53:47 PM
1 votes:

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Jamdug!: It's tough to test for something you don't even know exists.

CERN did it.


We gonna need a bigger cannibal accelerator
2012-07-07 03:53:15 PM
1 votes:
I'm Going with demon possession. It's equally scientific (zero percent) and even more scary.
2012-07-07 03:46:29 PM
1 votes:
"trace" amounts of marijuana.. it wasn't the weed that caused him to go all zombie, it was the lack of weed that had him so upset that he beat and rage munchied a homeless person

or maybe it was the bath salts he was smoking
2012-07-07 03:43:46 PM
1 votes:
Everybody knows the Devil's weed only makes minorities rape and murder white women, William Randolph Hearst told me so.
TKM
2012-07-07 03:43:17 PM
1 votes:
Have any bath salt factories suffered mysterious employee problems yet?

I had a friend who worked in a vitamin plant and they'd get exposed to stuff all of the time.
2012-07-07 02:22:27 PM
1 votes:
It's tough to test for something you don't even know exists.
 
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